[gentoo-user] rsync from ext3 to vfat?

[gentoo-user] rsync from ext3 to vfat?

[Mark Knecht]

Hi,
   I'm looking for what rsync options I can use to copy existing files
on an ext3 file system to an external eSATA drive formatted with vfat.
I think I want to match only the name, creation date & file size. The
eSATA drive needs to be vfat due to limitations of the audio/video
device it will be plugged into.

   Thanks in advance for any ideas.

Cheers,
Mark

Re: [gentoo-user] rsync from ext3 to vfat?

[ny6p01]

On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 12:12:40PM -0800, Mark Knecht wrote:
> Hi,
>    I'm looking for what rsync options I can use to copy existing files
> on an ext3 file system to an external eSATA drive formatted with vfat.
> I think I want to match only the name, creation date & file size. The
> eSATA drive needs to be vfat due to limitations of the audio/video
> device it will be plugged into.
> 
>    Thanks in advance for any ideas.
> 
> Cheers,
> Mark
> 

FWIW, I routinely backup important directories with rsync from ext3 and ext4
file systems to vfat, with no additional options. The command I use is:

sudo rsync -vvvruxi --size-only --exclude-from=/home/rh/rsync-home-excl-list /home/rh/ /mnt/Datastor/Gentoo/
for the home directory.

HTH.

Terry

Re: [gentoo-user] rsync from ext3 to vfat?

[mike]

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On 02/17/2012 03:12 PM, Mark Knecht wrote:
>    I'm looking for what rsync options I can use to copy existing files
> on an ext3 file system to an external eSATA drive formatted with vfat.
> I think I want to match only the name, creation date & file size. The
> eSATA drive needs to be vfat due to limitations of the audio/video
> device it will be plugged into.

rsync works just fine with any normal set of options when using any sort
of FAT as a destination.  There are, of course, a couple of gotchas:

  - FAT has limitations on file sizes.
  - FAT cannot store permissions or ACLs
  - FAT does not support extended attributes

Other than that, though, you should be good.

	--- Mike

-- 
A man who reasons deliberately, manages it better after studying Logic
than he could before, if he is sincere about it and has common sense.
                                   --- Carveth Read, “Logic”


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Re: [gentoo-user] rsync from ext3 to vfat?

[Manuel McLure]

On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 1:03 PM, mike@trausch.us <mike@trausch.us> wrote:
> rsync works just fine with any normal set of options when using any sort
> of FAT as a destination.  There are, of course, a couple of gotchas:
>
>  - FAT has limitations on file sizes.
>  - FAT cannot store permissions or ACLs
>  - FAT does not support extended attributes
>
> Other than that, though, you should be good.

Add "FAT considers two filenames that are the same except for case as
the same filename" to that list. NTFS has the same limitation.
-- 
Manuel A. McLure WW1FA <manuel@mclure.org> <http://www.mclure.org>
...for in Ulthar, according to an ancient and significant law,
no man may kill a cat.                       -- H.P. Lovecraft

Re: [gentoo-user] rsync from ext3 to vfat?

[mike]

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On 02/17/2012 05:11 PM, Manuel McLure wrote:
> Add "FAT considers two filenames that are the same except for case as
> the same filename" to that list. NTFS has the same limitation.

I had forgotten about that.  FAT is always case-sensitive.

While it is possible to change the rules slightly for NTFS, there are
serious repurcussions if you do.  NTFS supports the notion of a POSIX
"namespace", but if you use it and have multiple files that match
according to the Win32 rules, one of them will be inaccessible to
applications that use the Win32 namespace.

	--- Mike

-- 
A man who reasons deliberately, manages it better after studying Logic
than he could before, if he is sincere about it and has common sense.
                                   --- Carveth Read, “Logic”


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Re: [gentoo-user] rsync from ext3 to vfat?

[Michael Mol]

On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 5:11 PM, Manuel McLure <manuel@mclure.org> wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 1:03 PM, mike@trausch.us <mike@trausch.us> wrote:
>> rsync works just fine with any normal set of options when using any sort
>> of FAT as a destination.  There are, of course, a couple of gotchas:
>>
>>  - FAT has limitations on file sizes.
>>  - FAT cannot store permissions or ACLs
>>  - FAT does not support extended attributes
>>
>> Other than that, though, you should be good.
>
> Add "FAT considers two filenames that are the same except for case as
> the same filename" to that list. NTFS has the same limitation.

No. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/100625

However, ntfs-3g only creates files in the POSIX namespace on NTFS,
which means that, depending on the filename, some files you create on
Linux won't be able to be opened by apps (such as the Windows shell)
that rely on assumptions not violated by the DOS and Win32 namespaces.

I ran into that one. >.>

-- 
:wq

Re: [gentoo-user] rsync from ext3 to vfat?

[Mark Knecht]

On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 12:32 PM,  <ny6p01@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 12:12:40PM -0800, Mark Knecht wrote:
>> Hi,
>>    I'm looking for what rsync options I can use to copy existing files
>> on an ext3 file system to an external eSATA drive formatted with vfat.
>> I think I want to match only the name, creation date & file size. The
>> eSATA drive needs to be vfat due to limitations of the audio/video
>> device it will be plugged into.
>>
>>    Thanks in advance for any ideas.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Mark
>>
>
> FWIW, I routinely backup important directories with rsync from ext3 and ext4
> file systems to vfat, with no additional options. The command I use is:
>
> sudo rsync -vvvruxi --size-only --exclude-from=/home/rh/rsync-home-excl-list /home/rh/ /mnt/Datastor/Gentoo/
> for the home directory.
>
> HTH.
>
> Terry
>

Thanks Terry. I'm through about 30GB of the 400GB I want to back up.
It looks like it's working.

The --size-only option was what I needed. (Assuming it completes
without any other problems.)

Cheers,
Mark

NOTE: To others discussing the various positives and negatives of
Windows file systems please note that I had no choice in the matter.
The only thing this piece of equipment accepts on it's USB port is
VFAT.

Re: [gentoo-user] rsync from ext3 to vfat?

[Paul Hartman]

On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 4:31 PM, Mark Knecht <markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
> NOTE: To others discussing the various positives and negatives of
> Windows file systems please note that I had no choice in the matter.
> The only thing this piece of equipment accepts on it's USB port is
> VFAT.

If you run into any unreadable files when reading it on the
destination equipment, it's possibly due to incompatible filenames.
Try mounting vfat with check=strict and possibly changing the codepage
to whatever the destination system wants it to be.

If you don't use symbols or excessively long file names or extensions
I think it should be fine. (I think there's a 256 character full
path+filename limit as well on Windows systems)

Re: [gentoo-user] rsync from ext3 to vfat?

[Stefan Schmiedl]

On Fri, 17 Feb 2012 12:12:40 -0800
Mark Knecht <markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>    I'm looking for what rsync options I can use to copy existing files
> on an ext3 file system to an external eSATA drive formatted with vfat.
> I think I want to match only the name, creation date & file size. The
> eSATA drive needs to be vfat due to limitations of the audio/video
> device it will be plugged into.

You will have problems if you try to rsync a maildir folder:

stefan@g128 .maildir % ls -l cur 
total 12772
-rw------- 1 stefan stefan    6177 27. Jul 2011  1311745926.M692969P7969.g128,S=6177,W=6324:2,RS

The : in the filename will throw *fat as well as ntfs.
At least it did when I tried it here last time.

The devil's in the details, as always.
s.

Re: [gentoo-user] rsync from ext3 to vfat?

[Frank Steinmetzger]

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On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 01:31:38PM +0100, Stefan Schmiedl wrote:

> > Hi,
> >    I'm looking for what rsync options I can use to copy existing files
> > on an ext3 file system to an external eSATA drive formatted with vfat.
> 
> You will have problems if you try to rsync a maildir folder:
> 
> stefan@g128 .maildir % ls -l cur 
> total 12772
> -rw------- 1 stefan stefan    6177 27. Jul 2011  1311745926.M692969P7969.g128,S=6177,W=6324:2,RS

you can write a colon in an NTFS filename, you won't be able to access the
file in Windows though, due to it using : as drive separator. But a funny
quirk is that you can't create dot-files in Explorer (".someting"), because it
thinks the file has no name then, but only an extension. One has to use the
console then.

OTOH the OP wants to use the FAT disk in a media device. I don't expect it to
handle maildir. *g*
-- 
Gruß | Greetings | Qapla'
I forbid any use of my email addresses with Facebook services.

Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder.

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Re: [gentoo-user] rsync from ext3 to vfat?

[Michael Trausch]

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Actually, NTFS uses the colon, too, for identifying alternate data
streams...

Remember, kids, NTFS is a database, not a file system. It is therefore
quite convoluted.

--
Sent from my Ice Cream Sandwich powered Kindle Fire!
Pardon any typos...
On Feb 20, 2012 11:48 AM, "Frank Steinmetzger" <Warp_7@gmx.de> wrote:

> On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 01:31:38PM +0100, Stefan Schmiedl wrote:
>
> > > Hi,
> > >    I'm looking for what rsync options I can use to copy existing files
> > > on an ext3 file system to an external eSATA drive formatted with vfat.
> >
> > You will have problems if you try to rsync a maildir folder:
> >
> > stefan@g128 .maildir % ls -l cur
> > total 12772
> > -rw------- 1 stefan stefan    6177 27. Jul 2011
>  1311745926.M692969P7969.g128,S=6177,W=6324:2,RS
>
> you can write a colon in an NTFS filename, you won't be able to access the
> file in Windows though, due to it using : as drive separator. But a funny
> quirk is that you can't create dot-files in Explorer (".someting"),
> because it
> thinks the file has no name then, but only an extension. One has to use the
> console then.
>
> OTOH the OP wants to use the FAT disk in a media device. I don't expect it
> to
> handle maildir. *g*
> --
> Gruß | Greetings | Qapla'
> I forbid any use of my email addresses with Facebook services.
>
> Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder.
>

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Re: [gentoo-user] rsync from ext3 to vfat?

[Mark Knecht]

On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 8:45 AM, Frank Steinmetzger <Warp_7@gmx.de> wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 01:31:38PM +0100, Stefan Schmiedl wrote:
>
>> > Hi,
>> >    I'm looking for what rsync options I can use to copy existing files
>> > on an ext3 file system to an external eSATA drive formatted with vfat.
>>
>> You will have problems if you try to rsync a maildir folder:
>>
>> stefan@g128 .maildir % ls -l cur
>> total 12772
>> -rw------- 1 stefan stefan    6177 27. Jul 2011  1311745926.M692969P7969.g128,S=6177,W=6324:2,RS
>
> you can write a colon in an NTFS filename, you won't be able to access the
> file in Windows though, due to it using : as drive separator. But a funny
> quirk is that you can't create dot-files in Explorer (".someting"), because it
> thinks the file has no name then, but only an extension. One has to use the
> console then.
>
> OTOH the OP wants to use the FAT disk in a media device. I don't expect it to
> handle maildir. *g*

In my case these are just *.mp4 files ripped by HandBrake and placed
on a FAT drive as my HDTV has a USB port and the ability to play files
from a USB drive.

The setup is working very nicely at this point. The family likes being
able to use the TV instead of watching over Ethernet on a computer.
The TV can also access the machine where I rip DVDs but that requires
the computer to be turned on and a web server running which isn't
always the case.

Anyway, it seems like people answering want to make this more
difficult than it was, or answer some question other than what I
asked. I have no problem with that - do what you want here in this
thread, I'm a supporter - but it doesn't necessarily address my
concerns.

At this point everything works. The only thing I'm putting up is that
the rsync operation still tries to change owner & group, cannot do it
on fat, and gives me an error message about each of those problems.

Cheers,
Mark

Re: [gentoo-user] rsync from ext3 to vfat?

[Frank Steinmetzger]

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On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 08:57:45AM -0800, Mark Knecht wrote:

> Anyway, it seems like people answering want to make this more
> difficult than it was, or answer some question other than what I
> asked. I have no problem with that - do what you want here in this
> thread, I'm a supporter - but it doesn't necessarily address my
> concerns.

That's what generally happens in a Linux ML. It's all about choice and the
freedom thereof. ;-)
-- 
Gruß | Greetings | Qapla'
I forbid any use of my email addresses with Facebook services.

I couldn’t remember that telephone joke at first, but then it rang a bell.

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