From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: <gentoo-user+bounces-143868-garchives=archives.gentoo.org@lists.gentoo.org>
Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80])
by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C59011381FB
for <garchives@archives.gentoo.org>; Wed, 26 Dec 2012 23:53:17 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1])
by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 56D2721C0F2;
Wed, 26 Dec 2012 23:52:58 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from mail-oa0-f44.google.com (mail-oa0-f44.google.com [209.85.219.44])
(using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits))
(No client certificate requested)
by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7BE6121C0D0
for <gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org>; Wed, 26 Dec 2012 23:51:27 +0000 (UTC)
Received: by mail-oa0-f44.google.com with SMTP id n5so8515939oag.17
for <gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org>; Wed, 26 Dec 2012 15:51:26 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=gmail.com; s=20120113;
h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to
:content-type:content-transfer-encoding;
bh=yp8sQi6iR2BLaYFRdcVCL7SGwBjE9np0OanveDmlFuY=;
b=VkvsngFV/tWEhFzmAgSs0PuS91A1YwiH0wPwyyry/72VEB+uVZ94HaPD0u7z3HKypA
eUF38NMOa5eKAv5MJpM/s3ambUGLld7zaXwiaIjfhF5ykmD04l6IhBLzMNes6nzgMOxT
FfQuUkD2gpLujTqke6uY4EAFt+yDHC4JVb4eMJJM5XJIXPxDREIEh5IMyQYNviqHs7Jv
bgvEsrBBo8S2ADusHdWxfSC18Ttz/5IWWdUgHKpUga7l5u/SNm+qTNWAL6VEtI76s2hQ
hXjMSMdTsZLmanF/1B348JeVJb0ivxrdiKs8hIQaKldtbPIFYYK6d5Ca7YIlWMJ8oWHB
iZ2g==
Precedence: bulk
List-Post: <mailto:gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org>
List-Help: <mailto:gentoo-user+help@lists.gentoo.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:gentoo-user+unsubscribe@lists.gentoo.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:gentoo-user+subscribe@lists.gentoo.org>
List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail <gentoo-user.gentoo.org>
X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.182.226.103 with SMTP id rr7mr23240234obc.76.1356565886693;
Wed, 26 Dec 2012 15:51:26 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.76.20.243 with HTTP; Wed, 26 Dec 2012 15:51:26 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <CADPrc80mdBW5_1e2e8Vnw-jWQ_x=c1e7YVMFnde13rX_d+qZaw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <50CB1942.3020900@gmail.com>
<50CB4A3C.1030109@gmail.com>
<CAK2H+ecBb-nJ-ZY1efRT+sNCq6v9xgWnwL4GVpY-2j-GNTpJeA@mail.gmail.com>
<50CB5406.7040404@gmail.com>
<CAK2H+efpby+2NnbjReXyGjN3=Xe63j_2K69kCZjDhZcHvjusdA@mail.gmail.com>
<8738z7hgsa.fsf@ist.utl.pt>
<20121216171043.71084070@khamul.example.com>
<CAG2nJkNDLDp2hkz34XXEen4SO1_Mm18G8NNDMZK6tqDr+ddWtA@mail.gmail.com>
<20121217104621.735bf43a@khamul.example.com>
<CA+czFiD+Yv_PXctATd6EYws8kpqb3WFesLZU47jMN5ZJmy3oww@mail.gmail.com>
<20121218163332.7956f31a@khamul.example.com>
<87txrd6pb3.fsf@ist.utl.pt>
<20121223182037.1553813f@khamul.example.com>
<87bodk7lb6.fsf@ist.utl.pt>
<20121224085528.56f535ec@khamul.example.com>
<50D85167.9060309@gmail.com>
<20121224204817.335033c6@khamul.example.com>
<CAA2qdGW+qyofuA-xyAiP4dpb6Ay5DUwYm=PJ8JXD_f2gFgf98w@mail.gmail.com>
<50D957F0.1060406@gmail.com>
<CADPrc80d4ArycTCg8uNTExUp6zoky1x3sNEgrR8j9XxrmOJiMw@mail.gmail.com>
<20121226221950.04342909@kc-sys.chadwicks.me.uk>
<CADPrc80mdBW5_1e2e8Vnw-jWQ_x=c1e7YVMFnde13rX_d+qZaw@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2012 18:51:26 -0500
Message-ID: <CA+czFiAxkKEDs-cAoXPKo0w_2Z4M++RrUZ+oGAvsxZqXb-3m9Q@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Anyone switched to eudev yet? -> what was wron
with SysVInit?
From: Michael Mol <mikemol@gmail.com>
To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Archives-Salt: a8f8fb8a-4291-4b04-a6ae-84cd9dcecbeb
X-Archives-Hash: f7b5f59dc77120f207365d42714da585
On Wed, Dec 26, 2012 at 6:01 PM, Canek Pel=C3=A1ez Vald=C3=A9s <caneko@gmai=
l.com> wrote:
[snip]
> I didn't started the thread, Wolfe did. I just answered his question
> from my point of view.
>
> And, what community is being divided? Fedora,OpenSuse, and Arch use
> systemd by default. Gentoo derivative Exherbo recommends it as init
> system. It works great on Gentoo and Debian. I understand it even
> works in Ubuntu. systemd has done more to unify the Linux ecosystem
> than a lot of other projects in the last 20 years.
>
> And, really, I don't care about OpenBSD. I worked with it for three
> years; it's a nice toy Unix.
You do realize you just lost any moral high ground you might have had
over saying things that might or might not offend others? Seriously?
"toy"?
I'm not an OpenBSD user. But I do know it's one of the longest-lived,
most prominent UNIX-like systems in the ecosystem, and it's the home
for a huge amount of code that's imported by virtually every other
notable operating system.
To call it a "toy" tells me you know next to nothing about the history
(or even present) positions and involvement of the major players of
the UNIX-like ecosystem over the last twenty years.
> But for serious work (server, desktop and
> mobile) I prefer Linux, and in my case (except for my phone, that uses
> Android) I run Gentoo+systemd in all my machines. You don't have to
> agree with that, is my personal preference.
Canek, I have to ask. Have you ever done _anything_ outside of
academia? Up to Masters, academia is learning about what is.
Afterward, it's either about teaching or discovering what may be...but
a Masters only teaches you theory. A Doctorate is a discovery of a
truth under controlled conditions. The real world is nowhere near that
clean.
Quite frankly, I've found your emails to have to have a far more pomp,
ipsie dixit arguments, playbook arguments and appeals to authority
than hard, technical defense of arguments against your positions in
debate. Generally, I try to ignore you, and when I respond, it's
usually because your emails carry with them a tone of authority that
could easily mislead the uninformed into assuming he'd just read the
One True Way on some subject--something that's terrible when there are
real differences and not always clear-cut answers.
I try very, very hard to avoid both the use and appearance of use of
ad hominem arguments and reasoning. I do my damnedest to give the
benefit of the doubt. However, quite frankly, I've read almost
everything you've posted to this list over the last year and a half,
and you've never consistently exhibited an awareness of pragmatic
concerns for the subject, an understanding of the low levels issues in
theoretical concerns of the subject, or an ability to stick to
technical argument in a non-evasive fashion; that you might be wrong
on a technical point never occurs to you, and when pressed, you engage
in sophistry. Quite frankly, you act and speak more like a PR
spokesman than an engineer.
It's this behavior that probably led Bruce to make a crack about your
defense of systemd to an irrational degree. You advocate, but you
don't respond to criticisms with substance, suggesting your advocacy
isn't something based on rational motivation.
My purpose in debate isn't to win, it's to understand. I would be
positively delighted if you would approach debate the with the same
goal; we might be able to learn from each other.
--
:wq