From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC91E138010 for ; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 03:05:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C041DE0716; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 03:05:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-la0-f53.google.com (mail-la0-f53.google.com [209.85.215.53]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9F57E0660 for ; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 03:03:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-la0-f53.google.com with SMTP id l5so902656lah.40 for ; Wed, 24 Oct 2012 20:03:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=9HwFF6Qi3eRlX9fR6yxf9CVY92cmdGVfVhxbO8jRHoQ=; b=aDDBk+WvE2DigKpTcE5jj+GF0PDaTw8QXg66XG3VhrkF2j8YaYAeFjdZDv1T3tM+3/ /Pf0LE2+W+7TJFNMQWUUhMbB8LWT0O3JO0XP3xQYt7G4cIGyKx9/928N3DDR/2E48TQK ItAlWyXPaN2xu32EInAYQMU0Mvn5RDEObAWD+Ead04fh7CYM0GH5U7wO6S4EsKm53w9D iGKHWPUslo23oAC7shplpDP2x+voRbe9Fg/UfHpWTlOHNtV72L7nTaAMxGBIGwdNgXuF ku9eemNyyUhubWerFQ9hJhx3nivCN8QyfWpt7gZbFh9Yi+RhZsut3+DrNLJZ0qZdycTN 5gAg== Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.112.42.41 with SMTP id k9mr7029741lbl.126.1351134220338; Wed, 24 Oct 2012 20:03:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.39.229 with HTTP; Wed, 24 Oct 2012 20:03:40 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <5088A945.5020405@fastmail.co.uk> References: <50889166.2000102@fastmail.co.uk> <5088A945.5020405@fastmail.co.uk> Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 23:03:40 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Heads-up: Several kernel versions have severe EXT4 data corruption bug From: Michael Mol To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e0cb4efe33a43f458a04ccd97323 X-Archives-Salt: cf04a346-2ca3-4a77-a28e-0fe897283113 X-Archives-Hash: c7af62c994c0101070d7615766fc67e7 --e0cb4efe33a43f458a04ccd97323 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 10:51 PM, Kerin Millar wr= ote: > Canek Pel=C3=A1ez Vald=C3=A9s wrote: > >> On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 8:09 PM, Kerin Millar> >> wrote: >> >>> Canek Pel=C3=A1ez Vald=C3=A9s wrote: >>> >>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 8:54 AM, Nikos Chantziaras >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Kernels 3.4, 3.5, and 3.6 can result in severe data corruption if >>>>> you're >>>>> using the EXT4 filesystem: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.**php?page=3Dnews_item&px=3DMTIxNDQ >>>>> >>>>> This includes gentoo-sources. I hope the Gentoo developers are on to= p >>>>> of >>>>> this. In the meantime, avoid doing reboots after too short an uptime= . >>>>> >>>> >>>> Doesn't seem to be that serious: >>>> >>>> https://plus.google.com/u/0/**117091380454742934025/posts/**Wcc5tMiCgq= 7 >>>> >>> >>> Might I enquire as to the manner in which this comment impartially >>> establishes that the consequences of the bug upon those affected is not >>> serious? >>> >> >> Oh, and about "impartiality"; this is a technical issue, not a >> philosophical one. I will always trust the expert's opinion over >> almost everyone's else. >> >> > The comment you linked to was fairly bereft of technical content, other > than to assert that the circumstances under which the bug triggers are so > limited that there is no general cause for concern. Given that (a) the > investigation chronicled by the lkml thread remains ongoing (b) a remedy > has yet to be conclusively determined, it is illogical that any statement > as to the scope of the bug can anything more than a hypothesis at best, > irrespective of how well-informed said hypothesis might be. > > As for impartiality, it is entirely conceivable that someone in Ted's > position would be riled by what they perceive (not necessarily correctly) > as negative publicity and to respond in kind. Particularly when one carri= es > a burden of responsibility of the subsystem in question. > > Until such time as the matter is concluded, ext4 users that value their > data will exercise due concern, naturally. The petty sniping about drummi= ng > up ad-revenue and silly 4chan style image memes do not strike me as a > constructive way in which to assuage those concerns. > > Further, the notion that nobarrier is an "esoteric" option is > questionable. In my experience, it is common practice to employ it as a > performance-enhancing measure on systems equipped with a battery-backed > write cache; especially MySQL servers that must contend with a heavy > workload. One wonders what he would have made of the notion of running ex= t4 > without a journal, had it not been at the behest of Google. > > In summary, I maintain that his fatuous Google+ post does nothing to > establish just why it is that those of us in the peanut gallery should be > unconcerned as to the impact of the bug. On my part, I will continue to b= e > concerned until the investigation has fully run its course. > > --Kerin > > http://lwn.net/Articles/521022/ Links to relevant analysis. Useful comments. 'nuff said. --=20 :wq --e0cb4efe33a43f458a04ccd97323 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 10:51 PM, Kerin Millar <= span dir=3D"ltr"><kerframil@fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Canek Pel=C3=A1ez Vald=C3=A9s wrote:
On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 8:09 PM, Kerin Millar<kerframil@fastmail.co.uk>= =C2=A0wrote:
Canek Pel=C3=A1ez Vald=C3=A9s wrote:
On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 8:54 AM, Nikos Chantziaras<realnc@gmail.com>
wrote:
Kernels 3.4, 3.5, and 3.6 can result in severe data corruption if you'r= e
using the EXT4 filesystem:

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=3Dnews_i= tem&px=3DMTIxNDQ

This includes gentoo-sources. =C2=A0I hope the Gentoo developers are on top= of
this. =C2=A0In the meantime, avoid doing reboots after too short an uptime.=

Doesn't seem to be that serious:

https://plus.google.com/u/0/11709138045474293= 4025/posts/Wcc5tMiCgq7

Might I enquire as to the manner in which this comment impartially
establishes that the consequences of the bug upon those affected is not
serious?

Oh, and about "impartiality"; this is a technical issue, not a philosophical one. I will always trust the expert's opinion over
almost everyone's else.


The comment you linked to was fairly bereft of technical content, other tha= n to assert that the circumstances under which the bug triggers are so limi= ted that there is no general cause for concern. Given that (a) the investig= ation chronicled by the lkml thread remains ongoing (b) a remedy has yet to= be conclusively determined, it is illogical that any statement as to the s= cope of the bug can anything more than a hypothesis at best, irrespective o= f how well-informed said hypothesis might be.

As for impartiality, it is entirely conceivable that someone in Ted's p= osition would be riled by what they perceive (not necessarily correctly) as= negative publicity and to respond in kind. Particularly when one carries a= burden of responsibility of the subsystem in question.

Until such time as the matter is concluded, ext4 users that value their dat= a will exercise due concern, naturally. The petty sniping about drumming up= ad-revenue and silly 4chan style image memes do not strike me as a constru= ctive way in which to assuage those concerns.

Further, the notion that nobarrier is an "esoteric" option is que= stionable. In my experience, it is common practice to employ it as a perfor= mance-enhancing measure on systems equipped with a battery-backed write cac= he; especially MySQL servers that must contend with a heavy workload. One w= onders what he would have made of the notion of running ext4 without a jour= nal, had it not been at the behest of Google.

In summary, I maintain that his fatuous Google+ post does nothing to establ= ish just why it is that those of us in the peanut gallery should be unconce= rned as to the impact of the bug. On my part, I will continue to be concern= ed until the investigation has fully run its course.=

--Kerin


http://lwn.net/Articles/521022/

Links to relev= ant analysis. Useful comments. 'nuff said.

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