[gentoo-user] Experiences with Flatpak?

[gentoo-user] Experiences with Flatpak?

[Grant Edwards]

I'm shopping for an IMAP email client that does a decent job of
handling HTML.  After doing a bit of reading I decided the first one
to try would be Geary.

Bzzt!

Though it's in the portage tree unamasked and marked stable, you can't
actually _build_ it, since it requires an old, vulnerable version of
webkit-gtk that _isn't_ in the portage tree.

So I thought maybe I'd try it out using a flatpak "package":

    https://flathub.org/apps/details/org.gnome.Geary

But, flatpak isn't in the standard portage tree, so you have to use an
overlay or local repo.

This is beginning to look like a lot of work.

Is it practical to use flatpak apps on Gentoo?

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! Hmmm ... A hash-singer
                                  at               and a cross-eyed guy were
                              gmail.com            SLEEPING on a deserted
                                                   island, when ...

email client: was: [gentoo-user] Experiences with Flatpak?

[Jack]

On 2019.01.25 13:48, Grant Edwards wrote:
> I'm shopping for an IMAP email client that does a decent job of  
> handling HTML.  After doing a bit of reading I decided the first one  
> to try would be Geary.

I can't help you with flatpack, but have you tried balsa for an email  
client?  I mostly use it with POP3, but it DOES do IMAP, and although  
the default setup (at least as I have it set) is to prefer text over  
HTML, it does do HTML.  However, on reply or compose, I'm pretty sure  
it's text only, in case that's a show stopper for you.  Over the years,  
the development teat has been extremely responsive to requests for info  
and enhancement.

Jack

Re: [gentoo-user] Experiences with Flatpak?

[Canek Peláez Valdés]

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On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 12:48 PM Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I'm shopping for an IMAP email client that does a decent job of
> handling HTML.  After doing a bit of reading I decided the first one
> to try would be Geary.
>
> Bzzt!
>
> Though it's in the portage tree unamasked and marked stable, you can't
> actually _build_ it, since it requires an old, vulnerable version of
> webkit-gtk that _isn't_ in the portage tree.
>
> So I thought maybe I'd try it out using a flatpak "package":
>
>     https://flathub.org/apps/details/org.gnome.Geary
>
> But, flatpak isn't in the standard portage tree, so you have to use an
> overlay or local repo.
>
> This is beginning to look like a lot of work.
>
> Is it practical to use flatpak apps on Gentoo?
>

In my experience is amazing. Gentoo sometimes takes a lot of time to
stabilize some packages; flatpak usually have them immediately. For nightly
builds is even better, since you don't need to pollute your stable system.

I'm using

git://github.com/fosero/flatpak-overlay.git

(I don't use layman) The only keyworded package I have is flatpak-builder;
everything else is stable.

I regularly run in flatpak Inkscape, GNOME Builder, Glade, Pitivi, and
Steam (Cities: Skylines runs really well in Linux); but you can use it to
test new software too. It's trivial to install, update and remove software.

With all these packages, my flatpak repositories are using 13Gb, which is
nothing for my hard drive; but it will duplicate libraries from your
regular Linux distribution.

Also, I run systemd; I *think* it's necessary to run flatpak.

Regards.
-- 
Dr. Canek Peláez Valdés
Profesor de Carrera Asociado C
Departamento de Matemáticas
Facultad de Ciencias
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México

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[gentoo-user] Re: Experiences with Flatpak?

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 25/01/2019 20:48, Grant Edwards wrote:
> But, flatpak isn't in the standard portage tree, so you have to use an
> overlay or local repo.
> 
> This is beginning to look like a lot of work.
> 
> Is it practical to use flatpak apps on Gentoo?

I was using it for a while. Not anymore.

It does exactly what it says on the box. However, GUI applications 
installed in flatpak will completely ignore your desktop settings. 
flatpak comes with its own gtk/qt/gnome/kde libraries and its own 
completely separate settings for the desktop environment.

This is why I'm not using it anymore. GUI apps look like ass.

[gentoo-user] Re: email client: was: Experiences with Flatpak?

[Grant Edwards]

On 2019-01-25, Jack <ostroffjh@users.sourceforge.net> wrote:
> On 2019.01.25 13:48, Grant Edwards wrote:
>> I'm shopping for an IMAP email client that does a decent job of  
>> handling HTML.  After doing a bit of reading I decided the first one  
>> to try would be Geary.
>
> I can't help you with flatpack, but have you tried balsa for an email  
> client?  I mostly use it with POP3, but it DOES do IMAP, and although  
> the default setup (at least as I have it set) is to prefer text over  
> HTML, it does do HTML.  However, on reply or compose, I'm pretty sure  
> it's text only, in case that's a show stopper for you.

It sort of is.  Though I prefer text-only (and use mutt as my primary
MUA) there are many situations when sending text-only is not
acceptable because Outlook doesn't render it well.  I'm currently
running emails sent via mutt through a utility to format markdown
source as alternative text-only and HTML, but that has some drawbacks
as well -- hence my search for a secondary MUA with good HTML support.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! My haircut is totally
                                  at               traditional!
                              gmail.com            

[gentoo-user] Re: Experiences with Flatpak?

[Grant Edwards]

On 2019-01-25, Canek Peláez Valdés <caneko@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 12:48 PM Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards@gmail.com wrote:
>>[...]
>>
>> Is it practical to use flatpak apps on Gentoo?
>
> In my experience is amazing. Gentoo sometimes takes a lot of time to
> stabilize some packages; flatpak usually have them immediately. For nightly
> builds is even better, since you don't need to pollute your stable system.

[...]

> Also, I run systemd; I *think* it's necessary to run flatpak.

Ouch.  I don't, so that's a bit of a blocker for me.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! My nose feels like a
                                  at               bad Ronald Reagan movie ...
                              gmail.com            

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Experiences with Flatpak?

[Canek Peláez Valdés]

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On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 1:17 PM Nikos Chantziaras <realnc@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 25/01/2019 20:48, Grant Edwards wrote:
> > But, flatpak isn't in the standard portage tree, so you have to use an
> > overlay or local repo.
> >
> > This is beginning to look like a lot of work.
> >
> > Is it practical to use flatpak apps on Gentoo?
>
> I was using it for a while. Not anymore.
>
> It does exactly what it says on the box. However, GUI applications
> installed in flatpak will completely ignore your desktop settings.
> flatpak comes with its own gtk/qt/gnome/kde libraries and its own
> completely separate settings for the desktop environment.
>
> This is why I'm not using it anymore. GUI apps look like ass.
>

That's weird; they look fine for me [1,2]. As yo say, they have different
configurations (every application runs in an individual container), but the
both look normal.

Regards.

[1] https://aztlan.fciencias.unam.mx/~canek/inkscape-gentoo.jpg
[2] https://aztlan.fciencias.unam.mx/~canek/inkscape-flatpak.jpg
-- 
Dr. Canek Peláez Valdés
Profesor de Carrera Asociado C
Departamento de Matemáticas
Facultad de Ciencias
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Experiences with Flatpak?

[Canek Peláez Valdés]

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On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 1:30 PM Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On 2019-01-25, Canek Peláez Valdés <caneko@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 12:48 PM Grant Edwards <
> grant.b.edwards@gmail.com wrote:
> >>[...]
> >>
> >> Is it practical to use flatpak apps on Gentoo?
> >
> > In my experience is amazing. Gentoo sometimes takes a lot of time to
> > stabilize some packages; flatpak usually have them immediately. For
> nightly
> > builds is even better, since you don't need to pollute your stable
> system.
>
> [...]
>
> > Also, I run systemd; I *think* it's necessary to run flatpak.
>
> Ouch.  I don't, so that's a bit of a blocker for me.
>

I'm not sure anymore; flatpak doesn't need systemd and ostree has it as an
optional dependency[1]. It may work with OpenRC.

[1]
https://github.com/fosero/flatpak-overlay/blob/master/sys-fs/libostree/libostree-2019.1.ebuild#L37

Regards.
-- 
Dr. Canek Peláez Valdés
Profesor de Carrera Asociado C
Departamento de Matemáticas
Facultad de Ciencias
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México

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Re: [gentoo-user] Experiences with Flatpak?

[Alec Ten Harmsel]

On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 01:02:39PM -0600, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 12:48 PM Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > I'm shopping for an IMAP email client that does a decent job of
> > handling HTML.  After doing a bit of reading I decided the first one
> > to try would be Geary.
> >

I use Thunderbird, it works well.

> >
> > Is it practical to use flatpak apps on Gentoo?
> >
> 
> In my experience is amazing. Gentoo sometimes takes a lot of time to
> stabilize some packages; flatpak usually have them immediately. For nightly
> builds is even better, since you don't need to pollute your stable system.
> 
> I'm using
> 
> git://github.com/fosero/flatpak-overlay.git
> 

Same here - it works great. I run closed-source freeware like steam,
spotify, and discord and don't have any problems.

Alec

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Experiences with Flatpak?

[J. Roeleveld]

On Friday, January 25, 2019 8:40:32 PM CET Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 1:17 PM Nikos Chantziaras <realnc@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 25/01/2019 20:48, Grant Edwards wrote:
> > > But, flatpak isn't in the standard portage tree, so you have to use an
> > > overlay or local repo.
> > > 
> > > This is beginning to look like a lot of work.
> > > 
> > > Is it practical to use flatpak apps on Gentoo?
> > 
> > I was using it for a while. Not anymore.
> > 
> > It does exactly what it says on the box. However, GUI applications
> > installed in flatpak will completely ignore your desktop settings.
> > flatpak comes with its own gtk/qt/gnome/kde libraries and its own
> > completely separate settings for the desktop environment.
> > 
> > This is why I'm not using it anymore. GUI apps look like ass.
> 
> That's weird; they look fine for me [1,2]. As yo say, they have different
> configurations (every application runs in an individual container), but the
> both look normal.
> 
> Regards.
> 
> [1] https://aztlan.fciencias.unam.mx/~canek/inkscape-gentoo.jpg
> [2] https://aztlan.fciencias.unam.mx/~canek/inkscape-flatpak.jpg

Disclaimer: Not using Flatpak, so below is only a guess.

I don't think Flatpak copies/uses any theme-settings of the underlying 
desktop, but applies the default. If the user has the default settings, it 
looks fine. If the user doesn't, than it can look like the 90s. (Depending on 
the amount of 'customization')

--
Joost

Re: [gentoo-user] Experiences with Flatpak?

[J. Roeleveld]

On Saturday, January 26, 2019 8:58:13 PM CET Alec Ten Harmsel wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 01:02:39PM -0600, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> > On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 12:48 PM Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards@gmail.com>
> > 
> > wrote:
> > > I'm shopping for an IMAP email client that does a decent job of
> > > handling HTML.  After doing a bit of reading I decided the first one
> > > to try would be Geary.
> 
> I use Thunderbird, it works well.
> 
> > > Is it practical to use flatpak apps on Gentoo?
> > 
> > In my experience is amazing. Gentoo sometimes takes a lot of time to
> > stabilize some packages; flatpak usually have them immediately. For
> > nightly
> > builds is even better, since you don't need to pollute your stable system.
> > 
> > I'm using
> > 
> > git://github.com/fosero/flatpak-overlay.git
> 
> Same here - it works great. I run closed-source freeware like steam,
> spotify, and discord and don't have any problems.

I actually run steam without Flatpak or similar. (Unless it uses Flatpak 
without telling me).
I use the "steam-overlay" for the steam client and have no issues.

--
Joost

[gentoo-user] Re: Experiences with Flatpak?

[Grant Edwards]

On 2019-01-25, Canek Peláez Valdés <caneko@gmail.com> wrote:

>>> Also, I run systemd; I *think* it's necessary to run flatpak.
>>
>> Ouch.  I don't, so that's a bit of a blocker for me.
>
> I'm not sure anymore; flatpak doesn't need systemd and ostree has it as an
> optional dependency[1]. It may work with OpenRC.
>
> [1] https://github.com/fosero/flatpak-overlay/blob/master/sys-fs/libostree/libostree-2019.1.ebuild#L37

It installs fine without systemd (you need a -systemd USE flag).  But,
following the Gentoo Quick Setup instructions from
https://flatpak.org/setup/Gentoo/ produces this not-so-useful result:

    $ flatpak --version
    Flatpak 1.0.6

    $ flatpak remote-add --if-not-exists flathub https://flathub.org/repo/flathub.flatpakrepo
    Segmentation fault

Color me unimpressed.  So much for "a next-generation technology for
building and distributing desktop applications on Linux Start"...

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! NANCY!!  Why is
                                  at               everything RED?!
                              gmail.com