Re: [gentoo-user] chicken <--> egg (NFS & tty video)

Re: [gentoo-user] chicken <--> egg (NFS & tty video)

[Indi]

On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 05:00:03PM +0200, Felix Miata wrote:
> On 2011/05/14 10:37 (GMT-0400) Indi composed:
> 
> > Far better (IMO, YMMV) is to use /etc/portage/package.use specify such things
> > per package. Unless, of course, you like having a gtk GUI for everything.
> > :)
> 
> Yes, for sure. :-)
>

Also, have you seen this page?
http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/Kernel_Mode_Setting#Forcing_a_Resolution

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Re: [gentoo-user] chicken <--> egg (NFS & tty video)

[Felix Miata]

On 2011/05/14 11:04 (GMT-0400) Indi composed:

> Felix Miata wrote:

>>  On 2011/05/14 10:37 (GMT-0400) Indi composed:

>>  >  Far better (IMO, YMMV) is to use /etc/portage/package.use specify such things
>>  >  per package. Unless, of course, you like having a gtk GUI for everything.
>>  >  :)

>>  Yes, for sure. :-)

> Also, have you seen this page?
> http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/Kernel_Mode_Setting#Forcing_a_Resolution

I hadn't. That and its referenced commit message are good resources. :-)

I'd already tried various video= incantations based upon something I read 
elsewhere. With this GeForce2 MX400 video card, video=1152x864-24@60 
discombobulates the ttys, while both video=1152x864-32@60 and (plain) 
video=1152x864 apparently work fine.
-- 
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

  Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

Re: [gentoo-user] chicken <--> egg (NFS & tty video)

[Indi]

On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 09:00:02PM +0200, Willie Wong wrote:
> On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 12:01:20PM -0400, Indi wrote:
> > Sounds like the old "6 of one, a half-dozen of the other" to me...
> > What makes the subtractive method better?
> > 
> 
> This is how I interpret Alan's message:
> 
> For certain flags when you enable it for a package you will have to
> also enable it for its dependencies. So you'll have to chase down the
> dependency tree if you enable a flag for a user package and several of
> the libraries it uses need the flag too, which may end up requiring
> doing several emerge --pretend cycles to sort out.
> 
> Whereas if you subtract functionality, you usually won't have to
> change the libraries. (The corollary being that if you are going to
> remove functionality from the libraries, you should do so by globally
> removing the use flag, rather than on the package level.)
> 

Well perhaps it's nitpicking, but I like my systems as lean as possible.
I almost never emerge anything without -av options, just so I can say
"no" and edit package.use if need be. It rarely causes more than a few 
extra seconds to be consumed, since my needs don't change terribly often.
Depends on how one uses the system, I suppose...

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Re: [gentoo-user] chicken <--> egg (NFS & tty video)

[Mick]

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On Saturday 14 May 2011 20:06:18 Indi wrote:
> On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 09:00:02PM +0200, Willie Wong wrote:
> > On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 12:01:20PM -0400, Indi wrote:
> > > Sounds like the old "6 of one, a half-dozen of the other" to me...
> > > What makes the subtractive method better?
> > 
> > This is how I interpret Alan's message:
> > 
> > For certain flags when you enable it for a package you will have to
> > also enable it for its dependencies. So you'll have to chase down the
> > dependency tree if you enable a flag for a user package and several of
> > the libraries it uses need the flag too, which may end up requiring
> > doing several emerge --pretend cycles to sort out.
> > 
> > Whereas if you subtract functionality, you usually won't have to
> > change the libraries. (The corollary being that if you are going to
> > remove functionality from the libraries, you should do so by globally
> > removing the use flag, rather than on the package level.)
> 
> Well perhaps it's nitpicking, but I like my systems as lean as possible.
> I almost never emerge anything without -av options, just so I can say
> "no" and edit package.use if need be. It rarely causes more than a few
> extra seconds to be consumed, since my needs don't change terribly often.
> Depends on how one uses the system, I suppose...

Except when 260+ packages need updating as it happened with the last KDE 
upgrade.  I had a cursory look, but I missed some USE flag changes (scanner, 
rdesktop and vnc I think) which started removing packages and libraries.  
Other flag changes may well have added packages that I didn't need, but didn't 
have the time to go through the lot at the time.
-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] chicken <--> egg (NFS & tty video)

[Alan McKinnon]

Apparently, though unproven, at 21:51 on Saturday 14 May 2011, Mick did opine 
thusly:

> > Well perhaps it's nitpicking, but I like my systems as lean as possible.
> > I almost never emerge anything without -av options, just so I can say
> > "no" and edit package.use if need be. It rarely causes more than a few
> > extra seconds to be consumed, since my needs don't change terribly often.
> > Depends on how one uses the system, I suppose...
> 
> Except when 260+ packages need updating as it happened with the last KDE 
> upgrade.  I had a cursory look, but I missed some USE flag changes
> (scanner,  rdesktop and vnc I think) which started removing packages and
> libraries. Other flag changes may well have added packages that I didn't
> need, but didn't have the time to go through the lot at the time.

Is your emerge output colorized?

USE flag changes show up in green and the status indicators inside [ebuild   ] 
at the start of lines are in yellow. It's a huge gain being able to pick out 
the few new things that really stand out that way.

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] chicken <--> egg (NFS & tty video)

[Indi]

On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 11:00:02PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> Apparently, though unproven, at 18:01 on Saturday 14 May 2011, Indi did opine 
> thusly:
> 
> > 
> > Sounds like the old "6 of one, a half-dozen of the other" to me...
> > What makes the subtractive method better?
> 
> It's not subtractive as disabling a flag globally and enabling it when needed 
> is the same thing negated.
> 
> I'm pointing out that by their nature, most global USE flags are exactly that 
> - intended to be global, especially those in use.desc. For the most part the 
> user will want the support they provide to be global. When that is not the 
> case (the lesser case), an option exists to override the global setting in 
> package.use
> 
> What you proposed is that one never use global flags and always enable/disable 
> them package by package. That gets really tedious with flags used in many 
> ebuilds, such as USE=gtk.
> 
> Abstaction is good, leverage it to gain the benefits when it works in your 
> favour.
> 

No, I do not propose that one never use global use flags. I just employ
them very selectively, which is best for my needs.

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Re: [gentoo-user] chicken <--> egg (NFS & tty video)

[Alan McKinnon]

Apparently, though unproven, at 23:09 on Saturday 14 May 2011, Indi did opine 
thusly:

> No, I do not propose that one never use global use flags. I just employ
> them very selectively, which is best for my needs.

OK. 

I'll take that as clarifying what you said earlier. Thanks for that.


-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] chicken <--> egg (NFS & tty video)

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Sat, 14 May 2011 22:55:49 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:

> > Except when 260+ packages need updating as it happened with the last
> > KDE upgrade.  I had a cursory look, but I missed some USE flag changes
> > (scanner,  rdesktop and vnc I think) which started removing packages
> > and libraries. Other flag changes may well have added packages that I
> > didn't need, but didn't have the time to go through the lot at the
> > time.  
> 
> Is your emerge output colorized?
> 
> USE flag changes show up in green and the status indicators inside
> [ebuild   ] at the start of lines are in yellow. It's a huge gain being
> able to pick out the few new things that really stand out that way.

It also helps if you don't use -v, as then the only USE flags shown are
changes.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

-Come, come, why they couldn't hit an elephant from this dist-

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Re: [gentoo-user] chicken <--> egg (NFS & tty video)

[Mick]

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On Sunday 15 May 2011 19:14:26 Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Sat, 14 May 2011 22:55:49 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > > Except when 260+ packages need updating as it happened with the last
> > > KDE upgrade.  I had a cursory look, but I missed some USE flag changes
> > > (scanner,  rdesktop and vnc I think) which started removing packages
> > > and libraries. Other flag changes may well have added packages that I
> > > didn't need, but didn't have the time to go through the lot at the
> > > time.
> > 
> > Is your emerge output colorized?
> > 
> > USE flag changes show up in green and the status indicators inside
> > [ebuild   ] at the start of lines are in yellow. It's a huge gain being
> > able to pick out the few new things that really stand out that way.
> 
> It also helps if you don't use -v, as then the only USE flags shown are
> changes.

Of course!  Been using -v out of habit and had forgotten about this.  :)
-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] chicken <--> egg (NFS & tty video)

[Alan McKinnon]

Apparently, though unproven, at 20:14 on Sunday 15 May 2011, Neil Bothwick did 
opine thusly:

> On Sat, 14 May 2011 22:55:49 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > > Except when 260+ packages need updating as it happened with the last
> > > KDE upgrade.  I had a cursory look, but I missed some USE flag changes
> > > (scanner,  rdesktop and vnc I think) which started removing packages
> > > and libraries. Other flag changes may well have added packages that I
> > > didn't need, but didn't have the time to go through the lot at the
> > > time.
> > 
> > Is your emerge output colorized?
> > 
> > USE flag changes show up in green and the status indicators inside
> > [ebuild   ] at the start of lines are in yellow. It's a huge gain being
> > able to pick out the few new things that really stand out that way.
> 
> It also helps if you don't use -v, as then the only USE flags shown are
> changes.

I got out of that habit as I found without -v I'd more often than not ask 
myself "I wonder what other flags are used for this package, and do I need to 
tweak them?"

I call it prudence. My gf says it's me being bloody OCD again :-)

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] chicken <--> egg (NFS & tty video)

[Mick]

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On Sunday 15 May 2011 20:53:04 Alan McKinnon wrote:
> Apparently, though unproven, at 20:14 on Sunday 15 May 2011, Neil Bothwick
> did
> 
> opine thusly:
> > On Sat, 14 May 2011 22:55:49 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > > > Except when 260+ packages need updating as it happened with the last
> > > > KDE upgrade.  I had a cursory look, but I missed some USE flag
> > > > changes (scanner,  rdesktop and vnc I think) which started removing
> > > > packages and libraries. Other flag changes may well have added
> > > > packages that I didn't need, but didn't have the time to go through
> > > > the lot at the time.
> > > 
> > > Is your emerge output colorized?
> > > 
> > > USE flag changes show up in green and the status indicators inside
> > > [ebuild   ] at the start of lines are in yellow. It's a huge gain being
> > > able to pick out the few new things that really stand out that way.
> > 
> > It also helps if you don't use -v, as then the only USE flags shown are
> > changes.
> 
> I got out of that habit as I found without -v I'd more often than not ask
> myself "I wonder what other flags are used for this package, and do I need
> to tweak them?"
> 
> I call it prudence. My gf says it's me being bloody OCD again :-)

I was planning to run it twice anyway, without & with ...  ;-)

-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] chicken <--> egg (NFS & tty video)

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Sun, 15 May 2011 21:53:04 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:

> > It also helps if you don't use -v, as then the only USE flags shown
> > are changes.  
> 
> I got out of that habit as I found without -v I'd more often than not
> ask myself "I wonder what other flags are used for this package, and do
> I need to tweak them?"
> 
> I call it prudence. My gf says it's me being bloody OCD again :-)

Of course you're OCD - you use Gentoo, don't you? ;-)


-- 
Neil Bothwick

"Time is the best teacher....., unfortunately it kills all the students"

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Re: [gentoo-user] chicken <--> egg (NFS & tty video) (Fixed!)

[Felix Miata]

On 2011/05/15 22:18 (GMT-0400) Felix Miata composed:

> I have two Gentoo stanzas in my primary bootloader, one to load the kernel,
> another to chainload Gentoo's Grub. Loading the kernel works, but chainload
> gives error 13 invalid executable format. I named the bzImage copied to /boot
> "kernel-2.6.37-r4f", and symlinked it a vmlinuz. vmlinuz is the name I use in
> the Grub stanzas. Is Gentoo's Grub expecting the kernel to have a particular
> name, and I picked a wrong one? Or maybe what it doesn't like is that I
> uncommented splashimage=(hd0,6)/boot/grub/splash.xpm.gz in menu.lst?

I got this to work too:

# grub
grub> find /boot/grub/stage1
grub> root (hd0,6)
grub> setup (hd0,6)
grub> quit
#

Why setup didn't get this right via emerge I have no idea, unless it didn't 
actually do anything toward actually setting Grub up. If so, it could be 
there was already some mismatched Grub code there already from a previous use 
of the sectors there that didn't like the file format.
-- 
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

  Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

Re: [gentoo-user] chicken <--> egg (NFS & tty video) (Fixed!)

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Sun, 15 May 2011 22:54:14 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:

> Why setup didn't get this right via emerge I have no idea, unless it
> didn't actually do anything toward actually setting Grub up.

Emerging GRUB installs it, that's all. The post installation message
would have told you to set i up, but it's up to you to do the work.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

I'm not closed minded, you're just wrong.

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Re: [gentoo-user] chicken <--> egg (NFS & tty video) (Fixed!)

[Tanstaafl]

On 2011-05-15 10:54 PM, Felix Miata wrote:
> Why setup didn't get this right via emerge I have no idea, unless it
> didn't actually do anything toward actually setting Grub up. If so, it
> could be there was already some mismatched Grub code there already from
> a previous use of the sectors there that didn't like the file format.

Felix - you need to start reading the post-install messages when
emerging things.

With Gentoo, a lot of times, you have to actually do things manually
after installing something - as you found with GRUB.

Most people set things up so they get emails of the post install
messages when emerging things, but it is up to you to actually read them
and, when necessary, follow the instructions.

Re: [gentoo-user] chicken <--> egg (NFS & tty video) (Fixed!)

[JDM]

That's a clever trick. How do you get emails from emerge? 
JDM

-----Original Message-----
From: Tanstaafl <tanstaafl@libertytrek.org>
Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 07:58:34 
To: <gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org>
Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] chicken <--> egg (NFS & tty video) (Fixed!)

On 2011-05-15 10:54 PM, Felix Miata wrote:
> Why setup didn't get this right via emerge I have no idea, unless it
> didn't actually do anything toward actually setting Grub up. If so, it
> could be there was already some mismatched Grub code there already from
> a previous use of the sectors there that didn't like the file format.

Felix - you need to start reading the post-install messages when
emerging things.

With Gentoo, a lot of times, you have to actually do things manually
after installing something - as you found with GRUB.

Most people set things up so they get emails of the post install
messages when emerging things, but it is up to you to actually read them
and, when necessary, follow the instructions.

Re: [gentoo-user] chicken <--> egg (NFS & tty video) (Fixed!)

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Mon, 16 May 2011 12:43:05 +0000, JDM wrote:

> That's a clever trick. How do you get emails from emerge? 

Read the settings for PORTAGE_ELOG in man make.conf.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

WinErr 001: Windows loaded - System in danger

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Re: [gentoo-user] chicken <--> egg (NFS & tty video) (Fixed!)

[Stroller]

On 16/5/2011, at 1:43pm, JDM wrote:
>> Most people set things up so they get emails of the post install
>> messages when emerging things, but it is up to you to actually read them
>> and, when necessary, follow the instructions.
> That's a clever trick. How do you get emails from emerge? 

$ grep -i mail /etc/make.conf 
PORTAGE_ELOG_SYSTEM="save mail"
PORTAGE_ELOG_MAILURI="root"
PORTAGE_ELOG_MAILFROM="portage@hex"
$

(I follow the guiding principal that root and postmaster should always be correctly aliased, and that mail to them should be delivered correctly to another named user, my own).

Stroller.

Re: [gentoo-user] chicken <--> egg (NFS & tty video) (Fixed!)

[Indi]

On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 03:10:03PM +0200, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Mon, 16 May 2011 12:43:05 +0000, JDM wrote:
> 
> > That's a clever trick. How do you get emails from emerge? 
> 
> Read the settings for PORTAGE_ELOG in man make.conf.
> 
> 

Or as that man page says, 
"Please see /usr/share/portage/config/make.conf.example
for elog documentation."
:)

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Re: [gentoo-user] chicken <--> egg (NFS & tty video) (Fixed!)

[Indi]

On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 05:00:02AM +0200, Felix Miata wrote:
> On 2011/05/15 22:18 (GMT-0400) Felix Miata composed:
> 
> > I have two Gentoo stanzas in my primary bootloader, one to load the kernel,
> > another to chainload Gentoo's Grub. Loading the kernel works, but chainload
> > gives error 13 invalid executable format. I named the bzImage copied to /boot
> > "kernel-2.6.37-r4f", and symlinked it a vmlinuz. vmlinuz is the name I use in
> > the Grub stanzas. Is Gentoo's Grub expecting the kernel to have a particular
> > name, and I picked a wrong one? Or maybe what it doesn't like is that I
> > uncommented splashimage=(hd0,6)/boot/grub/splash.xpm.gz in menu.lst?
>


I always just copy the bzImage to (for example)
/boot/vmlinux-2.6.38-gentoo-r5, but the name doesn't really matter as
long as it matches your bootloader entry.

> 
> Why setup didn't get this right via emerge I have no idea, unless it didn't 
> actually do anything toward actually setting Grub up. If so, it could be 
> there was already some mismatched Grub code there already from a previous use 
> of the sectors there that didn't like the file format.
>

The install docs are fairly clear that installing the grub pkg is only
the first step of setting up the bootloader.

It seems to me (though I could certainly be wrong) that your best bet 
really is to perform a "vanilla install" first, as much as your hardware 
allows. Just to get to know the system before attempting to customize it.
:)

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Re: [gentoo-user] chicken <--> egg (NFS & tty video) (Fixed!)

[Felix Miata]

On 2011/05/16 11:26 (GMT-0400) Indi composed:

> On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 05:00:02AM +0200, Felix Miata wrote:

>>  On 2011/05/15 22:18 (GMT-0400) Felix Miata composed:

>>  >  I have two Gentoo stanzas in my primary bootloader, one to load the kernel,
>>  >  another to chainload Gentoo's Grub. Loading the kernel works, but chainload
>>  >  gives error 13 invalid executable format. I named the bzImage copied to /boot
>>  >  "kernel-2.6.37-r4f", and symlinked it a vmlinuz. vmlinuz is the name I use in
>>  >  the Grub stanzas. Is Gentoo's Grub expecting the kernel to have a particular
>>  >  name, and I picked a wrong one? Or maybe what it doesn't like is that I
>>  >  uncommented splashimage=(hd0,6)/boot/grub/splash.xpm.gz in menu.lst?

> I always just copy the bzImage to (for example)
> /boot/vmlinux-2.6.38-gentoo-r5, but the name doesn't really matter as
> long as it matches your bootloader entry.

I spent more time thinking about what happened, and decided the Grub message 
had to be coming from the master Grub trying to chainload the non-existent 
Gentoo Grub, and finding old data from a partition previously using that 
space, rather than something recognizable as boot code.

>>  Why setup didn't get this right via emerge I have no idea, unless it didn't
>>  actually do anything toward actually setting Grub up. If so, it could be
>>  there was already some mismatched Grub code there already from a previous use
>>  of the sectors there that didn't like the file format.

> The install docs are fairly clear that installing the grub pkg is only
> the first step of setting up the bootloader.

At that point I was seriously burned out on reading and rereading docs on 
install attempt #8 on my 5th day trying. I was so joyful seeing pretty colors 
and no error messages that I couldn't think logically. ;-)

> It seems to me (though I could certainly be wrong) that your best bet
> really is to perform a "vanilla install" first, as much as your hardware
> allows. Just to get to know the system before attempting to customize it.
> :)

Actually after the first or 2nd or some subsequent attempt that was my plan. 
After so much time passed (days, not just hours) and I had good kernel, NFS, 
and MC that I didn't see much point delaying KDE. After the errors 
disappeared around 10 last night and I reported same here I started to wonder 
where to go next on a tired brain. I set qt3support emerging around that 
time, and more than 3 hours later and time for bed its hundred & some 
packages were still emerging. I woke up hours later to goto the bathroom and 
found that done, so set kdm to install. That hundred plus set of packages is 
still emerging now, nearly 6 hours later. Maybe 32 bit 1667MHz & 512M RAM is 
on the skimpy side for installing Gentoo?
-- 
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

  Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

Re: [gentoo-user] chicken <--> egg (NFS & tty video) (Fixed!)

[Indi]

On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 06:10:02PM +0200, Felix Miata wrote:
> 
> Actually after the first or 2nd or some subsequent attempt that was my plan. 
> After so much time passed (days, not just hours) and I had good kernel, NFS, 
> and MC that I didn't see much point delaying KDE. After the errors 
> disappeared around 10 last night and I reported same here I started to wonder 
> where to go next on a tired brain. I set qt3support emerging around that 
> time, and more than 3 hours later and time for bed its hundred & some 
> packages were still emerging. I woke up hours later to goto the bathroom and 
> found that done, so set kdm to install. That hundred plus set of packages is 
> still emerging now, nearly 6 hours later. Maybe 32 bit 1667MHz & 512M RAM is 
> on the skimpy side for installing Gentoo?
>

Not to mention there is pretty much no way you'll be using kde on that
hardware! I'd be surprised if X would be usable on that even with blackbox 
wm...

-- 
caveat utilitor 
♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ 

Re: [gentoo-user] chicken <--> egg (NFS & tty video) (Fixed!)

[Indi]

> On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 12:18:49PM -0400, Indi wrote:
> > On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 06:10:02PM +0200, Felix Miata wrote:
> > > 
> > > Actually after the first or 2nd or some subsequent attempt that was my plan. 
> > > After so much time passed (days, not just hours) and I had good kernel, NFS, 
> > > and MC that I didn't see much point delaying KDE. After the errors 
> > > disappeared around 10 last night and I reported same here I started to wonder 
> > > where to go next on a tired brain. I set qt3support emerging around that 
> > > time, and more than 3 hours later and time for bed its hundred & some 
> > > packages were still emerging. I woke up hours later to goto the bathroom and 
> > > found that done, so set kdm to install. That hundred plus set of packages is 
> > > still emerging now, nearly 6 hours later. Maybe 32 bit 1667MHz & 512M RAM is 
> > > on the skimpy side for installing Gentoo?
> > >
> > 
> > Not to mention there is pretty much no way you'll be using kde on that
> > hardware! I'd be surprised if X would be usable on that even with blackbox 
> > wm...
> > 
> 

Oh jeesh, my bad -- I saw "167 MHz", but it's "1667 MHz".
Sorry! :/ (My eyesight is not good)
Yes, you shoud be able to run whatever DE/WM.
 
-- 
caveat utilitor 
♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ 
 

-- 
caveat utilitor 
♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ 

Re: [gentoo-user] chicken <--> egg (NFS & tty video) (Fixed!)

[Alan McKinnon]

Apparently, though unproven, at 18:18 on Monday 16 May 2011, Indi did opine 
thusly:

> On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 06:10:02PM +0200, Felix Miata wrote:
> > Actually after the first or 2nd or some subsequent attempt that was my
> > plan. After so much time passed (days, not just hours) and I had good
> > kernel, NFS, and MC that I didn't see much point delaying KDE. After the
> > errors disappeared around 10 last night and I reported same here I
> > started to wonder where to go next on a tired brain. I set qt3support
> > emerging around that time, and more than 3 hours later and time for bed
> > its hundred & some packages were still emerging. I woke up hours later
> > to goto the bathroom and found that done, so set kdm to install. That
> > hundred plus set of packages is still emerging now, nearly 6 hours
> > later. Maybe 32 bit 1667MHz & 512M RAM is on the skimpy side for
> > installing Gentoo?
> 
> Not to mention there is pretty much no way you'll be using kde on that
> hardware! I'd be surprised if X would be usable on that even with blackbox
> wm...

This is a joke right?



-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] chicken <--> egg (NFS & tty video) (Fixed!)

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Mon, 16 May 2011 10:57:14 -0400, Indi wrote:

> > Read the settings for PORTAGE_ELOG in man make.conf.

> Or as that man page says, 
> "Please see /usr/share/portage/config/make.conf.example
> for elog documentation."

I know that's what the man page currently says, but I expect it will be
updated to include the actual information long before this thread is
deleted from all mail archives, so it seemed prudent to point to the man
page and let the user follow the link :)


-- 
Neil Bothwick

A computer without Microsoft is like a chocolate cake without mustard.

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Re: [gentoo-user] chicken <--> egg (NFS & tty video) (Fixed!)

[JDM]

Thnx, have followed advice. I am impressed.
JDM

-----Original Message-----
From: Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 20:57:26 
To: <gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org>
Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] chicken <--> egg (NFS & tty video) (Fixed!)

On Mon, 16 May 2011 10:57:14 -0400, Indi wrote:

> > Read the settings for PORTAGE_ELOG in man make.conf.

> Or as that man page says, 
> "Please see /usr/share/portage/config/make.conf.example
> for elog documentation."

I know that's what the man page currently says, but I expect it will be
updated to include the actual information long before this thread is
deleted from all mail archives, so it seemed prudent to point to the man
page and let the user follow the link :)


-- 
Neil Bothwick

A computer without Microsoft is like a chocolate cake without mustard.

Re: [gentoo-user] chicken <--> egg (NFS & tty video) (Fixed!)

[Dale]

Alan McKinnon wrote:
> Apparently, though unproven, at 18:18 on Monday 16 May 2011, Indi did opine
> thusly:
>
>    
>> On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 06:10:02PM +0200, Felix Miata wrote:
>>      
>>> Actually after the first or 2nd or some subsequent attempt that was my
>>> plan. After so much time passed (days, not just hours) and I had good
>>> kernel, NFS, and MC that I didn't see much point delaying KDE. After the
>>> errors disappeared around 10 last night and I reported same here I
>>> started to wonder where to go next on a tired brain. I set qt3support
>>> emerging around that time, and more than 3 hours later and time for bed
>>> its hundred&  some packages were still emerging. I woke up hours later
>>> to goto the bathroom and found that done, so set kdm to install. That
>>> hundred plus set of packages is still emerging now, nearly 6 hours
>>> later. Maybe 32 bit 1667MHz&  512M RAM is on the skimpy side for
>>> installing Gentoo?
>>>        
>> Not to mention there is pretty much no way you'll be using kde on that
>> hardware! I'd be surprised if X would be usable on that even with blackbox
>> wm...
>>      
> This is a joke right?
>
>    

I once ran Gentoo Linux with KDE3 on a 133Mhz machine with 256Mbs of 
ram.  It wasn't fast but it did OK.  A friend used it to play cards on.  
No internet or anything tho.

I did the compiling via chroot on my old rig which had a much faster CPU 
and such.  I just plugged the drive into my rig and did my thing.

It may be slow but it should work.  Make sure you have some swap tho.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] chicken <--> egg (NFS & tty video) (Fixed!)

[Alan McKinnon]

Apparently, though unproven, at 23:15 on Monday 16 May 2011, Dale did opine 
thusly:

> Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > Apparently, though unproven, at 18:18 on Monday 16 May 2011, Indi did
> > opine
> > 
> > thusly:
> >> On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 06:10:02PM +0200, Felix Miata wrote:
> >>> Actually after the first or 2nd or some subsequent attempt that was my
> >>> plan. After so much time passed (days, not just hours) and I had good
> >>> kernel, NFS, and MC that I didn't see much point delaying KDE. After
> >>> the errors disappeared around 10 last night and I reported same here I
> >>> started to wonder where to go next on a tired brain. I set qt3support
> >>> emerging around that time, and more than 3 hours later and time for
> >>> bed its hundred&  some packages were still emerging. I woke up hours
> >>> later to goto the bathroom and found that done, so set kdm to install.
> >>> That hundred plus set of packages is still emerging now, nearly 6
> >>> hours later. Maybe 32 bit 1667MHz&  512M RAM is on the skimpy side for
> >>> installing Gentoo?
> >> 
> >> Not to mention there is pretty much no way you'll be using kde on that
> >> hardware! I'd be surprised if X would be usable on that even with
> >> blackbox wm...
> > 
> > This is a joke right?
> 
> I once ran Gentoo Linux with KDE3 on a 133Mhz machine with 256Mbs of
> ram.  It wasn't fast but it did OK.  A friend used it to play cards on.
> No internet or anything tho.
> 
> I did the compiling via chroot on my old rig which had a much faster CPU
> and such.  I just plugged the drive into my rig and did my thing.
> 
> It may be slow but it should work.  Make sure you have some swap tho.


I pondered for a long time how to reply to Indi.

I had many posts typed out, most of them rude, all of them classic Alan, but 
something held me back. Lucky it went that way, he later posted he read 
1667MHZ as 167MHz.

Amazing what a difference a "1" can make :-)



-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] chicken <--> egg (NFS & tty video) (Fixed!)

[Indi]

On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 10:10:02PM +0200, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Mon, 16 May 2011 10:57:14 -0400, Indi wrote:
> 
> > > Read the settings for PORTAGE_ELOG in man make.conf.
> 
> > Or as that man page says, 
> > "Please see /usr/share/portage/config/make.conf.example
> > for elog documentation."
> 
> I know that's what the man page currently says, but I expect it will be
> updated to include the actual information long before this thread is
> deleted from all mail archives, so it seemed prudent to point to the man
> page and let the user follow the link :)
> 
> 

Quite right, thanks. :)

-- 
caveat utilitor 
♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ 

Re: [gentoo-user] chicken <--> egg (NFS & tty video) (Fixed!)

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Mon, 16 May 2011 23:40:32 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:

> I had many posts typed out, most of them rude, all of them classic
> Alan, but something held me back. Lucky it went that way, he later
> posted he read 1667MHZ as 167MHz.
> 
> Amazing what a difference a "1" can make :-)

Not nearly as much as a "6" :P


-- 
Neil Bothwick

WWW: World Wide Wait

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Re: [gentoo-user] chicken <--> egg (NFS & tty video) (Fixed!)

[Alan McKinnon]

Apparently, though unproven, at 01:01 on Tuesday 17 May 2011, Neil Bothwick 
did opine thusly:

> On Mon, 16 May 2011 23:40:32 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > I had many posts typed out, most of them rude, all of them classic
> > Alan, but something held me back. Lucky it went that way, he later
> > posted he read 1667MHZ as 167MHz.
> > 
> > Amazing what a difference a "1" can make :-)
> 
> Not nearly as much as a "6" :P


I *really* need to get some sleep and go to bed _right_now_

<sigh>


-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] chicken <--> egg (NFS & tty video) (Fixed!)

[Felix Miata]

On 2011/05/16 19:01 (GMT-0400) Neil Bothwick composed:

> On Mon, 16 May 2011 23:40:32 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:

>>  he read 1667MHZ as 167MHz.

>>  Amazing what a difference a "1" can make :-)

> Not nearly as much as a "6" :P

Sure it can! In 1111101000b, any of those "1"s represents more than 6. Indi 
misread 11010000011b as 10100111b, while "6" is only 110b. :-)
-- 
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

  Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

Re: [gentoo-user] chicken <--> egg (NFS & tty video) (Fixed!)

[Indi]

On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 01:10:02AM +0200, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Mon, 16 May 2011 23:40:32 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> 
> > I had many posts typed out, most of them rude, all of them classic
> > Alan, but something held me back. Lucky it went that way, he later
> > posted he read 1667MHZ as 167MHz.
> > 
> > Amazing what a difference a "1" can make :-)
> 
> Not nearly as much as a "6" :P
> 

Or an "s"*.
:)

-- 
caveat utilitor 
♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ 
*(I'm an old woman)

Re: [gentoo-user] chicken <--> egg (NFS & tty video) (Fixed!)

[Alan McKinnon]

Apparently, though unproven, at 01:28 on Tuesday 17 May 2011, Indi did opine 
thusly:

> On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 01:10:02AM +0200, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> > On Mon, 16 May 2011 23:40:32 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > > I had many posts typed out, most of them rude, all of them classic
> > > Alan, but something held me back. Lucky it went that way, he later
> > > posted he read 1667MHZ as 167MHz.
> > > 
> > > Amazing what a difference a "1" can make :-)
> > 
> > Not nearly as much as a "6" :P
> 
> Or an "s"*.
> 
> :)


You're speaking to a grumpy old fart combined language git, who not only 
studied English first language at length but an entire 5 year high school 
career in Latin as well. This makes me eminently qualified to opine thusly:

All persons working in technology fields necessarily display masculine 
attributes, hence shall be uniformly referred to by the male form of pronouns, 
i.e. all techies are addressed as "he". The female form is not incorrect, but 
discouraged.

All objects of technology (aka stuff what we work on), due to the peculiar 
interaction shown to them by techies, shall be uniformly referred to by means 
of the female form of pronouns. Vehicles and computers are especially to be 
referred to using the "she" form. Motorcycles triply so.

Users, n00bs, marketing persons, hairdressers, telephone handset sanitizers 
and other assorted riff-raff of the human species should be referred to using 
the neuter form of pronouns, i.e. "it", as befitting their overall 
contribution to humanity.

You see what I did there? You see how I recovered with a witty reposte without 
even blinking an eye? It takes nerves of steel and much practise to pull that 
one off, I tell you!

Let's see how long it takes Neil to find the grammar errors in that lot :-)

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] chicken <--> egg (NFS & tty video) (Fixed!)

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Tue, 17 May 2011 01:49:29 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:

 should be
> referred to using the neuter form of pronouns, i.e. "it", as befitting
> their overall contribution to humanity.
> 
> You see what I did there? You see how I recovered with a witty reposte
> without even blinking an eye? It takes nerves of steel and much
> practise to pull that one off, I tell you!
> 
> Let's see how long it takes Neil to find the grammar errors in that
> lot :-)
> 
Well, since you asked...

> All objects of technology (aka stuff what we work on),

Stuff WHAT we work on?

> Users, n00bs, marketing persons, hairdressers, telephone handset
> sanitizers and other assorted riff-raff of the human species

Douglas Adams was English, our second greatest writer, so that should be
telephone sanitiser - but that's nit-picking, even form me :)

Oh, and it should be grammatical errors :P


-- 
Neil Bothwick

I don't have any solution, but I certainly admire the problem.

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Re: [gentoo-user] chicken <--> egg (NFS & tty video) (Fixed!)

[Alan McKinnon]

Apparently, though unproven, at 09:16 on Tuesday 17 May 2011, Neil Bothwick 
did opine thusly:


While we are nitpicking:


> Douglas Adams was English, our second greatest writer,


That should be "greatest writer", the other fellow was not the greatest - he 
merely wrote soap operas.

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] chicken <--> egg (NFS & tty video) (Fixed!)

[Joost Roeleveld]

On Tuesday 17 May 2011 08:16:20 Neil Bothwick wrote:
> Douglas Adams was English, our second greatest writer

Who do you class as the greatest English writer then?

> , so that should be
> telephone sanitiser - but that's nit-picking, even form me :)

[nipick] "even form me"? :P [/nitpick]

--
Joost

Re: [gentoo-user] chicken <--> egg (NFS & tty video) (Fixed!)

[Alan McKinnon]

Apparently, though unproven, at 10:22 on Tuesday 17 May 2011, Joost Roeleveld 
did opine thusly:

> On Tuesday 17 May 2011 08:16:20 Neil Bothwick wrote:
> > Douglas Adams was English, our second greatest writer
> 
> Who do you class as the greatest English writer then?

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] chicken <--> egg (NFS & tty video) (Fixed!)

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Tue, 17 May 2011 09:29:29 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:

> > Douglas Adams was English, our second greatest writer,  
 
> That should be "greatest writer", the other fellow was not the greatest
> - he merely wrote soap operas.

I don't know what you mean, unless you mistakenly assumed I was referring
to Shakespeare... I wasn't.

I was of course referring to the one who came before Adams, whose merest
operational parameters he was not worthy to calculate - Nigel Kneale.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

C Error #029: Well! I'm impressed

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Re: [gentoo-user] chicken <--> egg (NFS & tty video) (Fixed!)

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Tue, 17 May 2011 10:22:35 +0200, Joost Roeleveld wrote:

> > telephone sanitiser - but that's nit-picking, even form me :)  
> 
> [nipick] "even form me"? :P [/nitpick]

I think we should both be more careful with our typing when nit-picking :(


-- 
Neil Bothwick

COMMAND: A suggestion made to a computer.

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Re: [gentoo-user] chicken <--> egg (NFS & tty video) (Fixed!)

[Joost Roeleveld]

On Tuesday 17 May 2011 10:35:48 Alan McKinnon wrote:
> Apparently, though unproven, at 10:22 on Tuesday 17 May 2011, Joost
> Roeleveld
> 
> did opine thusly:
> > On Tuesday 17 May 2011 08:16:20 Neil Bothwick wrote:
> > > Douglas Adams was English, our second greatest writer
> > 
> > Who do you class as the greatest English writer then?
> 
> Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings

You like Vogon Poetry as well then? ;)

--
Joost

Re: [gentoo-user] chicken <--> egg (NFS & tty video) (Fixed!)

[Alan McKinnon]

Apparently, though unproven, at 11:21 on Tuesday 17 May 2011, Joost Roeleveld 
did opine thusly:

> On Tuesday 17 May 2011 10:35:48 Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > Apparently, though unproven, at 10:22 on Tuesday 17 May 2011, Joost
> > Roeleveld
> > 
> > did opine thusly:
> > > On Tuesday 17 May 2011 08:16:20 Neil Bothwick wrote:
> > > > Douglas Adams was English, our second greatest writer
> > > 
> > > Who do you class as the greatest English writer then?
> > 
> > Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings
> 
> You like Vogon Poetry as well then? ;)


I have no choice. Resistance is futile.


-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] chicken <--> egg (NFS & tty video) (Fixed!)

[Joost Roeleveld]

On Tuesday 17 May 2011 10:19:30 Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Tue, 17 May 2011 10:22:35 +0200, Joost Roeleveld wrote:
> > > telephone sanitiser - but that's nit-picking, even form me :)
> > 
> > [nipick] "even form me"? :P [/nitpick]
> 
> I think we should both be more careful with our typing when nit-picking :(

Probably :)

Re: [gentoo-user] chicken <--> egg (NFS & tty video) (Fixed!)

[Indi]

On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 09:40:01AM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> Apparently, though unproven, at 09:16 on Tuesday 17 May 2011, Neil Bothwick 
> did opine thusly:
> 
> 
> While we are nitpicking:
> 
> 
> > Douglas Adams was English, our second greatest writer,
> 
> 
> That should be "greatest writer", the other fellow was not the greatest - he 
> merely wrote soap operas.
> 

IMO it's "co-greatest writer": 
tossup between Douglas Adams and Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

-- 
caveat utilitor 
♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ 

Re: [gentoo-user] chicken <--> egg (NFS & tty video) (Fixed!)

[Pandu Poluan]

On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 06:18, Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
> Apparently, though unproven, at 01:01 on Tuesday 17 May 2011, Neil Bothwick
> did opine thusly:
>
>> On Mon, 16 May 2011 23:40:32 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
>> > I had many posts typed out, most of them rude, all of them classic
>> > Alan, but something held me back. Lucky it went that way, he later
>> > posted he read 1667MHZ as 167MHz.
>> >
>> > Amazing what a difference a "1" can make :-)
>>
>> Not nearly as much as a "6" :P
>
>
> I *really* need to get some sleep and go to bed _right_now_
>
> <sigh>
>
>

I <3 this list :-D

-- 
Pandu E Poluan
~ IT Optimizer ~
Visit my Blog: http://pepoluan.posterous.com