[gentoo-user] chrome and everything

[gentoo-user] chrome and everything

[András Csányi]

Hi All,

Something strange happen here. I have seen few things in Linux world
but this is very new for me!

I have this fantastic browser called Chromium (12.0.742.68) and I
really like it. But, sometimes, when I see flash videos on different
sites (youtube, cnn, bbc) the whole chromium become frozen and basicly
impossible to kill it. (The comfortable way is left click on the
taskbar and choose "Close" and KDE takes care of to kill the
application. ) I'm aware of I'm using Linux and the Linux desktop and
the flash are not the best friends ever. So my usual activity if my
browser become frozen by flash is the next: (1), start a konsole, (2),
start htop, (3) and kill the process, (4) restart the browser, (5)
happy.
But, in this case, htop doesn't start. I can see the prompt and the
command "htop" but the cursor is disappeared and nothing. Just waiting
for something. The konsole doesn't react CTRL-c. I've tried this in
xterm terminal and the result was the same. In normal case I examine
the htop process by strace but I can't figure out what is the PID
number because of ps aux (see below). Usually I'm using strace from
htop.

I thought "ok, no problem, I'm well experienced linux user and I know
there always is another way to kill a process". So, I typed "ps aux |
grep chrom" command and the result was the same as htop. I could see
the prompt and my command and nothing. The cursor is disappeared and
nothing. We waited for something. Here I thought that the X server
could be the root cause. I pushed CTRL-DEL-F1 and I thought that "here
is my little console and I'm able to do everything". But the result
was the same when I wanted to start htop.

Here was the point when I became angry and restarted my machine. The
restarting process stopped at "Terminating processes" and my machine
didn't restart just wait for something for minutes! I had to push
reset button after 5 minutes.

Strange, isn't?

Has anybody any thought, idea what the hell happen?

While I wrote this letter Chromium become crazy again - thanks the
automatic save few words has lost this letter - and I know that the
root cause the Chromium itself and the flash isn't matter. Flash just
make faster that process when Chromium become crazy.

My plan is the next:
- rebuild my whole system because it's necessary. This is a very fresh
install and gcc has changed.
- step back to earlier version of chromium
- try to reproduce this error with another browser
- pray to God :)
- switch off the computer and read The Wheel of Time series from
Robert Jordan :)

-- 
- -
--  Csanyi Andras (Sayusi Ando)  -- http://sayusi.hu --
http://facebook.com/andras.csanyi
--  ""Trust in God and keep your gunpowder dry!" - Cromwell

Re: [gentoo-user] chrome and everything

[Alan McKinnon]

Apparently, though unproven, at 10:49 on Thursday 02 June 2011, András Csányi 
did opine thusly:

> Hi All,
> 
> Something strange happen here. I have seen few things in Linux world
> but this is very new for me!
> 
> I have this fantastic browser called Chromium (12.0.742.68) and I
> really like it. But, sometimes, when I see flash videos on different
> sites (youtube, cnn, bbc) the whole chromium become frozen and basicly
> impossible to kill it. (The comfortable way is left click on the
> taskbar and choose "Close" and KDE takes care of to kill the
> application. ) I'm aware of I'm using Linux and the Linux desktop and
> the flash are not the best friends ever. So my usual activity if my
> browser become frozen by flash is the next: (1), start a konsole, (2),
> start htop, (3) and kill the process, (4) restart the browser, (5)
> happy.

[snip]

> While I wrote this letter Chromium become crazy again - thanks the
> automatic save few words has lost this letter - and I know that the
> root cause the Chromium itself and the flash isn't matter. Flash just
> make faster that process when Chromium become crazy.

No, you are probably wrong here.

Chromium is not the problem, Flash is the problem.

Flash is a piece of shit that has never worked right and Adobe are a bunch of 
fools that cannot code properly or securely. I can comfortably say this based 
on long hard bitter experience by the entire Linux community.

If you choose to use Flash, you get to put up with the resulting problems.

> My plan is the next:
> - rebuild my whole system because it's necessary. This is a very fresh
> install and gcc has changed.
> - step back to earlier version of chromium
> - try to reproduce this error with another browser
> - pray to God :)
> - switch off the computer and read The Wheel of Time series from
> Robert Jordan :)

Waste of time, won't fix anything.

Flash is a bundled binary and recompiling world will not recompile Flash.

Adobe fixing Flash is what will fix Flash.




-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] chrome and everything

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Thursday 02 June 2011 10:49:44 András Csányi wrote:


what is hard about a killall -9 chrome?

Re: [gentoo-user] chrome and everything

[András Csányi]

On 2 June 2011 11:32, Volker Armin Hemmann <volkerarmin@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On Thursday 02 June 2011 10:49:44 András Csányi wrote:
>
>
> what is hard about a killall -9 chrome?

Nothing. But as far I remember the process called chromium not chrome
and you know before I type something into console I would like to be
sure what I'm doing. I'm not a geek who remembers every name of the
processes and PID numbers because it's funny. ;)

-- 
- -
--  Csanyi Andras (Sayusi Ando)  -- http://sayusi.hu --
http://facebook.com/andras.csanyi
--  ""Trust in God and keep your gunpowder dry!" - Cromwell

Re: [gentoo-user] chrome and everything

[Jesús J. Guerrero Botella]

I don't have spare time for philosophical stuff (and it's not amongst
my insterests anyway). But, you can always use some extension to block
flash contents. Then you click only in the flashes you want to see.
That will probably help to narrow down the scope of the problem. So,
try adblock and flashblock. The extra ram they will suck probably
worths the trouble.

It's obvious that if you can live without flash you should live
without flash. But it is also obvious that if you need to visit a
flash based site then you need to visit it, and there's no working
alternative to the crap Adobe gifted all of us with.


-- 
Jesús Guerrero Botella

Re: [gentoo-user] chrome and everything

[András Csányi]

On 2 June 2011 11:21, Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> While I wrote this letter Chromium become crazy again - thanks the
>> automatic save few words has lost this letter - and I know that the
>> root cause the Chromium itself and the flash isn't matter. Flash just
>> make faster that process when Chromium become crazy.
>
> No, you are probably wrong here.
>
> Chromium is not the problem, Flash is the problem.
>
> Flash is a piece of shit that has never worked right and Adobe are a bunch of
> fools that cannot code properly or securely. I can comfortably say this based
> on long hard bitter experience by the entire Linux community.
>
> If you choose to use Flash, you get to put up with the resulting problems.

I agree flash is a piece of shit. Only that fact annoys me when the
browser (Chromium) going to crash the half of my system crashes as
well. I can accept the fact sometimes I have to restart the browser. I
did it few times on Windows, as well, because of flash. I can't accept
that when the browser crashes because of flash I have to restart my
computer.

Why die another applications if the browser crashes? For example
console stuffs as htop, grep, less and others? Harmed seriously the
graphic abilities of the system in this case?

-- 
- -
--  Csanyi Andras (Sayusi Ando)  -- http://sayusi.hu --
http://facebook.com/andras.csanyi
--  ""Trust in God and keep your gunpowder dry!" - Cromwell

Re: [gentoo-user] chrome and everything

[Sebastian Beßler]

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Am 02.06.2011 14:27, schrieb András Csányi:

> Why die another applications if the browser crashes? For example
> console stuffs as htop, grep, less and others? Harmed seriously the
> graphic abilities of the system in this case?

For me that looks like a problem of some other kind (maybe hardware
related?) that is triggert by flash.

Does the console stuff still work when you switch to the real console
(STRG+ALT+F1) after such a lockup?

Greetings

Sebastian


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Re: [gentoo-user] chrome and everything

[András Csányi]

On 2 June 2011 14:38, Sebastian Beßler <sebastian@darkmetatron.de> wrote:
> Am 02.06.2011 14:27, schrieb András Csányi:
>
>> Why die another applications if the browser crashes? For example
>> console stuffs as htop, grep, less and others? Harmed seriously the
>> graphic abilities of the system in this case?
>
> For me that looks like a problem of some other kind (maybe hardware
> related?) that is triggert by flash.
>
> Does the console stuff still work when you switch to the real console
> (STRG+ALT+F1) after such a lockup?

Yes, hardware issue triggered by flash is possible because this
machine is a cheap, noname stuff.
No, they doesn't work properly. I've tried only htop and "ps aux |
grep chrom" command. The symptoms are the same in konsole application.
I've tried inside screen and outside as well. The symptoms are the
same. The strange for me is that top is works properly instead of
htop. I suspect that the color sequences could be the problem. But, as
I sad in one of my previous letter, I'm not a geek and operational
system specialist. I'm just a testing engineer. :)

Could be the problem that I'm using splash and the system booted with
vga=791 parameters? I'm using 2.6.39-ck kernel.

-- 
- -
--  Csanyi Andras (Sayusi Ando)  -- http://sayusi.hu --
http://facebook.com/andras.csanyi
--  ""Trust in God and keep your gunpowder dry!" - Cromwell

Re: [gentoo-user] chrome and everything

[Gian Calgeer]

On 02.06.2011 13:42, Jesús J. Guerrero Botella wrote:
> I don't have spare time for philosophical stuff (and it's not amongst
> my insterests anyway). But, you can always use some extension to block
> flash contents. Then you click only in the flashes you want to see.
> That will probably help to narrow down the scope of the problem. So,
> try adblock and flashblock. The extra ram they will suck probably
> worths the trouble.
There's no need for an extension to get that behaviour with Chromium. 
You can simply enable "click to play" on the about:flags page, then 
choose click to play for plugins in the content settings of Chromium.

Re: [gentoo-user] chrome and everything

[Indi]

On Thu, Jun 02, 2011 at 11:30:02AM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> Apparently, though unproven, at 10:49 on Thursday 02 June 2011, András Csányi 
> did opine thusly:
> 
> > Hi All,
> > 
> > Something strange happen here. I have seen few things in Linux world
> > but this is very new for me!
> > 
> > I have this fantastic browser called Chromium (12.0.742.68) and I
> > really like it. But, sometimes, when I see flash videos on different
> > sites (youtube, cnn, bbc) the whole chromium become frozen and basicly
> > impossible to kill it. (The comfortable way is left click on the
> > taskbar and choose "Close" and KDE takes care of to kill the
> > application. ) I'm aware of I'm using Linux and the Linux desktop and
> > the flash are not the best friends ever. So my usual activity if my
> > browser become frozen by flash is the next: (1), start a konsole, (2),
> > start htop, (3) and kill the process, (4) restart the browser, (5)
> > happy.
> 
> [snip]
> 
> > While I wrote this letter Chromium become crazy again - thanks the
> > automatic save few words has lost this letter - and I know that the
> > root cause the Chromium itself and the flash isn't matter. Flash just
> > make faster that process when Chromium become crazy.
> 
> No, you are probably wrong here.
> 
> Chromium is not the problem, Flash is the problem.
> 

That's what I'd have thought if it were any other browser, but my 
experience with chromium is that it's actually quite unstable.

> Flash is a piece of shit that has never worked right and Adobe are a bunch of 
> fools that cannot code properly or securely. I can comfortably say this based 
> on long hard bitter experience by the entire Linux community.
> 
> If you choose to use Flash, you get to put up with the resulting problems.
> 

Maybe before throwing out the baby with the bathwater he should do some 
more testing in another browser. In the past I've seen behavior not
unlike that described due to flash, but if flash is the culprit it will 
show up using firefox or konqueror or whatever.

-- 
caveat utilitor
♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ 

Re: [gentoo-user] chrome and everything

[Paul Hartman]

On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 3:49 AM, András Csányi <sayusi.ando@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Something strange happen here. I have seen few things in Linux world
> but this is very new for me!
>
> I have this fantastic browser called Chromium (12.0.742.68) and I
> really like it. But, sometimes, when I see flash videos on different
> sites (youtube, cnn, bbc) the whole chromium become frozen and basicly
> impossible to kill it

Flash is behaving like this in every browser on my Gentoo ~amd64 box
ever since Flash plugin 10.3 was released. Constantly freezing UI,
flash video still showing when when window is closed, etc. With
earlier 10.x series it was (mostly) okay, it was definitely usable.
With 10.3 so far it is basically a waste of time to try loading any
flash objects. Noscript/adblock to the rescue. ;)

Re: [gentoo-user] chrome and everything

[Paul Hartman]

On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 9:23 AM, Paul Hartman
<paul.hartman+gentoo@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 3:49 AM, András Csányi <sayusi.ando@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Something strange happen here. I have seen few things in Linux world
>> but this is very new for me!
>>
>> I have this fantastic browser called Chromium (12.0.742.68) and I
>> really like it. But, sometimes, when I see flash videos on different
>> sites (youtube, cnn, bbc) the whole chromium become frozen and basicly
>> impossible to kill it
>
> Flash is behaving like this in every browser on my Gentoo ~amd64 box
> ever since Flash plugin 10.3 was released. Constantly freezing UI,
> flash video still showing when when window is closed, etc. With
> earlier 10.x series it was (mostly) okay, it was definitely usable.
> With 10.3 so far it is basically a waste of time to try loading any
> flash objects. Noscript/adblock to the rescue. ;)
>

Replying to myself, it looks like flash plugin 10.3 is only available
as 32-bit on linux (so it's using the nspluginwrapper), while 10.2 was
64-bit. So maybe that's part of the explanation in my case.

Re: [gentoo-user] chrome and everything

[Alan McKinnon]

Apparently, though unproven, at 15:47 on Thursday 02 June 2011, Indi did opine 
thusly:

> Maybe before throwing out the baby with the bathwater he should do some 
> more testing in another browser. In the past I've seen behavior not
> unlike that described due to flash, but if flash is the culprit it will 
> show up using firefox or konqueror or whatever.

I've seen various combinations of flash-replacements, browsers and hackery 
(nspluginwrapper comes to mind) do similar things - send a machine haywire and 
sometimes even lock it up solid. But in each case it's been a new commit to 
the tree, many more than 1 user was affected and we heard about it here almost 
right away.

That isn't the case this time. Woth checking, I just don't hold out much hope 
it's anything other than flash itself (especially given it's track record).



-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] chrome and everything

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Thursday 02 June 2011 11:44:26 András Csányi wrote:
> On 2 June 2011 11:32, Volker Armin Hemmann <volkerarmin@googlemail.com> 
wrote:
> > On Thursday 02 June 2011 10:49:44 András Csányi wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > what is hard about a killall -9 chrome?
> 
> Nothing. But as far I remember the process called chromium not chrome
> and you know before I type something into console I would like to be
> sure what I'm doing. I'm not a geek who remembers every name of the
> processes and PID numbers because it's funny. ;)


1000      9379  1.9  1.2 720420 105684 ?       Sl   Jun01  25:44 
/usr/lib64/chromium-browser/chrome --extra-plugin-
dir=/usr/lib/nsbrowser/plugins
1000      9382  0.0  0.0 363408  3652 ?        S    Jun01   0:01 
/usr/lib64/chromium-browser/chrome --extra-plugin-
dir=/usr/lib/nsbrowser/plugins
1000      9383  0.0  0.0 447460  1292 ?        S    Jun01   0:00 
/usr/lib64/chromium-browser/chrome --type=zygote
1000      9411  0.0  0.0 1043852 6820 ?        Sl   Jun01   0:04 
/usr/lib64/chromium-browser/chrome --type=extension --lang=de --force-
fieldtest=ConnCountImpact/conn_count_6/ConnnectBackupJobs/ConnectBackupJobsE
1000      9417  0.0  0.0 1042740 4988 ?        Sl   Jun01   0:07 
/usr/lib64/chromium-browser/chrome --type=extension --lang=de --force-
fieldtest=ConnCountImpact/conn_count_6/ConnnectBackupJobs/ConnectBackupJobsE
1000      9441  0.0  0.1 1045112 10096 ?       Sl   Jun01   0:20 
/usr/lib64/chromium-browser/chrome --type=extension --lang=de --force-
fieldtest=ConnCountImpact/conn_count_6/ConnnectBackupJobs/ConnectBackupJobsE
1000      9449  0.0  0.0 1043884 8168 ?        Sl   Jun01   0:15 
/usr/lib64/chromium-browser/chrome 

as you can see the process is called chrome.

ps aux is there for a reason

Re: [gentoo-user] chrome and everything

[Leonardo Guilherme]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2661 bytes --]

2011/6/2 András Csányi <sayusi.ando@gmail.com>

> Hi All,
>
> Something strange happen here. I have seen few things in Linux world
> but this is very new for me!
>
> I have this fantastic browser called Chromium (12.0.742.68) and I
> really like it. But, sometimes, when I see flash videos on different
> sites (youtube, cnn, bbc) the whole chromium become frozen and basicly
> impossible to kill it. (The comfortable way is left click on the
> taskbar and choose "Close" and KDE takes care of to kill the
> application. ) I'm aware of I'm using Linux and the Linux desktop and
> the flash are not the best friends ever. So my usual activity if my
> browser become frozen by flash is the next: (1), start a konsole, (2),
> start htop, (3) and kill the process, (4) restart the browser, (5)
> happy.
> But, in this case, htop doesn't start. I can see the prompt and the
> command "htop" but the cursor is disappeared and nothing. Just waiting
> for something. The konsole doesn't react CTRL-c. I've tried this in
> xterm terminal and the result was the same. In normal case I examine
> the htop process by strace but I can't figure out what is the PID
> number because of ps aux (see below). Usually I'm using strace from
> htop.
>
> I thought "ok, no problem, I'm well experienced linux user and I know
> there always is another way to kill a process". So, I typed "ps aux |
> grep chrom" command and the result was the same as htop. I could see
> the prompt and my command and nothing. The cursor is disappeared and
> nothing. We waited for something. Here I thought that the X server
> could be the root cause. I pushed CTRL-DEL-F1 and I thought that "here
> is my little console and I'm able to do everything". But the result
> was the same when I wanted to start htop.
>
> Here was the point when I became angry and restarted my machine. The
> restarting process stopped at "Terminating processes" and my machine
> didn't restart just wait for something for minutes! I had to push
> reset button after 5 minutes.
>
> Strange, isn't?
>
> Has anybody any thought, idea what the hell happen?


Those lockups reminds me of hard disks lockups, when nothing works anymore
exepct what was already been loaded on RAM. Maybe flash/chrome is writing to
a broken area of your disk. Check the HD light, weird noises. Or RAM. I have
no such problems of things crashing with flash, but had experienced flash UI
lockups in the past.

Why don't you test with another browsers? That will help identifying the
problem. Check dmesg, too, it might give you some tips of failed disk.

My two cents.
Good luck.

Leonardo.

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Re: [gentoo-user] chrome and everything

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Thursday 02 June 2011 09:23:47 Paul Hartman wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 3:49 AM, András Csányi <sayusi.ando@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi All,
> > 
> > Something strange happen here. I have seen few things in Linux world
> > but this is very new for me!
> > 
> > I have this fantastic browser called Chromium (12.0.742.68) and I
> > really like it. But, sometimes, when I see flash videos on different
> > sites (youtube, cnn, bbc) the whole chromium become frozen and basicly
> > impossible to kill it
> 
> Flash is behaving like this in every browser on my Gentoo ~amd64 box
> ever since Flash plugin 10.3 was released. Constantly freezing UI,
> flash video still showing when when window is closed, etc. With
> earlier 10.x series it was (mostly) okay, it was definitely usable.
> With 10.3 so far it is basically a waste of time to try loading any
> flash objects. Noscript/adblock to the rescue. ;)

[I] www-plugins/adobe-flash
     Available versions:  10.2.159.1!m!s (~)10.2.159.1_p201011173!m!s 
10.3.181.14-r1!m!s{tbz2} {+32bit +64bit bindist kde multilib vdpau}
     Installed versions:  10.3.181.14-r1!m!s{tbz2}(23:05:11 15.05.2011)(-kde -
vdpau)
     Homepage:            http://www.adobe.com/flashplayer
     Description:         Adobe Flash Player


working fine in chromium here - apart from a bug that if I open several tabs 
with flash, the flash part is not shown until I reload the page.

Chromium works fine here too. Stable and quick.

www-client/chromium
     Available versions:  
        (0)     11.0.696.68 11.0.696.71 (~)12.0.742.60 (~)12.0.742.68 {M}
(~)13.0.767.1{tbz2} {M}(~)13.0.772.0-r1{tbz2}
        (live)  {M}**9999-r1
        {cups gnome gnome-keyring kerberos linguas_am linguas_ar linguas_bg 
linguas_bn linguas_ca linguas_cs linguas_da linguas_de linguas_el 
linguas_en_GB linguas_es linguas_es_LA linguas_et linguas_fa linguas_fi 
linguas_fil linguas_fr linguas_gu linguas_he linguas_hi linguas_hr linguas_hu 
linguas_id linguas_it linguas_ja linguas_kn linguas_ko linguas_lt linguas_lv 
linguas_ml linguas_mr linguas_nb linguas_nl linguas_pl linguas_pt_BR 
linguas_pt_PT linguas_ro linguas_ru linguas_sk linguas_sl linguas_sr 
linguas_sv linguas_sw linguas_ta linguas_te linguas_th linguas_tr linguas_uk 
linguas_vi linguas_zh_CN linguas_zh_TW test xinerama}                                                                                                                                                                                                               
     Installed versions:  13.0.772.0-r1{tbz2}(21:26:22 26.05.2011)(cups -gnome 
-gnome-keyring -kerberos -test -xinerama)
     Homepage:            http://chromium.org/
     Description:         Open-source version of Google Chrome web browser

Re: [gentoo-user] chrome and everything

[Alan McKinnon]

Apparently, though unproven, at 14:27 on Thursday 02 June 2011, András Csányi 
did opine thusly:

> On 2 June 2011 11:21, Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> While I wrote this letter Chromium become crazy again - thanks the
> >> automatic save few words has lost this letter - and I know that the
> >> root cause the Chromium itself and the flash isn't matter. Flash just
> >> make faster that process when Chromium become crazy.
> > 
> > No, you are probably wrong here.
> > 
> > Chromium is not the problem, Flash is the problem.
> > 
> > Flash is a piece of shit that has never worked right and Adobe are a
> > bunch of fools that cannot code properly or securely. I can comfortably
> > say this based on long hard bitter experience by the entire Linux
> > community.
> > 
> > If you choose to use Flash, you get to put up with the resulting
> > problems.
> 
> I agree flash is a piece of shit. Only that fact annoys me when the
> browser (Chromium) going to crash the half of my system crashes as
> well. I can accept the fact sometimes I have to restart the browser. I
> did it few times on Windows, as well, because of flash. I can't accept
> that when the browser crashes because of flash I have to restart my
> computer.
> 
> Why die another applications if the browser crashes? For example
> console stuffs as htop, grep, less and others? Harmed seriously the
> graphic abilities of the system in this case?

I can't fix Adobe for you. I'd like to, but can't.

You have essentially two choices:

1. Don't use flash.
2. Use flash and put up with what it does. Or try various versions to find one 
that sucks less.

You really have no other choice in the short term.

There is one medium term option you may want to pursue, to persuade Adobe to 
write nice good clean code. A lot of people will be very happy if you succeed. 
Which doesn't actually do much about your immediate problem.

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] chrome and everything

[Mike Edenfield]

On 6/2/2011 10:40 AM, Paul Hartman wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 9:23 AM, Paul Hartman
> <paul.hartman+gentoo@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 3:49 AM, András Csányi <sayusi.ando@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> Something strange happen here. I have seen few things in Linux world
>>> but this is very new for me!
>>>
>>> I have this fantastic browser called Chromium (12.0.742.68) and I
>>> really like it. But, sometimes, when I see flash videos on different
>>> sites (youtube, cnn, bbc) the whole chromium become frozen and basicly
>>> impossible to kill it
>>
>> Flash is behaving like this in every browser on my Gentoo ~amd64 box
>> ever since Flash plugin 10.3 was released. Constantly freezing UI,
>> flash video still showing when when window is closed, etc. With
>> earlier 10.x series it was (mostly) okay, it was definitely usable.
>> With 10.3 so far it is basically a waste of time to try loading any
>> flash objects. Noscript/adblock to the rescue. ;)
>>
> 
> Replying to myself, it looks like flash plugin 10.3 is only available
> as 32-bit on linux (so it's using the nspluginwrapper), while 10.2 was
> 64-bit. So maybe that's part of the explanation in my case.

According to Adobe, they have "closed the Flash Player 10 for 64-bit
Linux program". Given that the only reason I bothered with Flash on
Linux was the native 64-bit support, I've masked off adobe-flash-10.3*
and have been quite happy with the last 10.2 so far.

--Mike

Re: [gentoo-user] chrome and everything

[András Csányi]

On 2 June 2011 20:22, Leonardo Guilherme <leonardo.guilherme@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Those lockups reminds me of hard disks lockups, when nothing works anymore
> exepct what was already been loaded on RAM. Maybe flash/chrome is writing to
> a broken area of your disk. Check the HD light, weird noises. Or RAM. I have
> no such problems of things crashing with flash, but had experienced flash UI
> lockups in the past.
> Why don't you test with another browsers? That will help identifying the
> problem. Check dmesg, too, it might give you some tips of failed disk.
> My two cents.
> Good luck.
> Leonardo.

It could be something like this. I caught a chromium crash with
running htop and what I see? A "Z" and a "D" processes. I think I know
what I'm going to do at weekend. :S

-- 
- -
--  Csanyi Andras (Sayusi Ando)  -- http://sayusi.hu --
http://facebook.com/andras.csanyi
--  ""Trust in God and keep your gunpowder dry!" - Cromwell

[gentoo-user] Re: chrome and everything

[walt]

On 06/02/2011 02:21 AM, Alan McKinnon wrote:

> Flash is a piece of shit that has never worked right and Adobe are a bunch of 
> fools that cannot code properly or securely.

I agree 100%.  My question is why they continue to be so successful in spite
of such a history.  And they don't seem to be improving -- Flash shows up
regularly on the monthly security bulletin from sans.org with yet another
buffer overflow exploit.  It never gets better :(

OTOH, chromium gets security fixes from google every *week*, so they don't
inspire much confidence either.

Which is safer:  an insecure program that gets fixed every month, or one that
gets fixed every week?  The answer is not obvious to me...

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: chrome and everything

[Alan McKinnon]

Apparently, though unproven, at 02:07 on Friday 03 June 2011, walt did opine 
thusly:

> On 06/02/2011 02:21 AM, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > Flash is a piece of shit that has never worked right and Adobe are a
> > bunch of fools that cannot code properly or securely.
> 
> I agree 100%.  My question is why they continue to be so successful in
> spite of such a history.  

That's easy to answer, but it has nothing to do with code and everything to do 
with human nature.

Flash is New!Improved!Shiny! shit full of bling and looks cool to the 
consumer. Web devs develop flashy shiny sites and users think it's awesome. We 
look at flash and think "OMFG, how can anyone release crap code like that?"

Well, the web dev is hooked into the user's mindset, providing something the 
user likes and that is real to him. So the user will use it regardless of any 
issues it may have. The user does not understand our mindset (coders and code 
quality) so we get no traction with users, we might as well speak Martian


> And they don't seem to be improving -- Flash
> shows up regularly on the monthly security bulletin from sans.org with yet
> another buffer overflow exploit.  It never gets better :(
> 
> OTOH, chromium gets security fixes from google every *week*, so they don't
> inspire much confidence either.
> 
> Which is safer:  an insecure program that gets fixed every month, or one
> that gets fixed every week?  The answer is not obvious to me...

Compare how Google goes about doing things with how Adobe does it.

The Google Chromium team appears to take security seriously and are open and 
up-front about what they do.

Adobe likes to stonewall on issues and create an aura of how sekrit stuff is.

Which one inspires confidence in fellow geeks?


-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] chrome and everything

[Felix Miata]

On 2011/06/03 19:49 (GMT-0400) Indi composed:

> On Sat, Jun 04, 2011 at 12:50:02AM +0200, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:

>>  Mick wrote:

>>>  Agreed. I do wish we'd get something open and reasonably well coded to
>>>  replace  flash,

>>>  I do hope that html5 will do away with it altogether.

>>  you can easily block flash.

>>  You won't be able to block all that moving add crap in html5. Why do you think
>>  the ad-slingers (google the biggest among them) push for h5?

> With privoxy and noscript there isn't much that can't be blocked.

Things like div#google {display: none !important;} in user stylesheets don't 
hurt either.
-- 
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

  Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

Re: [gentoo-user] chrome and everything

[András Csányi]

On 2 June 2011 11:21, Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Chromium is not the problem, Flash is the problem.
>
> Flash is a piece of shit that has never worked right and Adobe are a bunch of
> fools that cannot code properly or securely. I can comfortably say this based
> on long hard bitter experience by the entire Linux community.
>
> If you choose to use Flash, you get to put up with the resulting problems.

I'm not sure the Flash is the problem. Chromium uses Flash through
nspluginwrapper. I removed nspluginwrapper package and I recompiled
few package which depended on nspluginwrapper package. And Chromium
freezin and creating a D process as you can see on this picture. [1]

http://sayusi.hu/blog/picture_about_htop

I asked my friends - they are *nix administrators, and they told me
this below could be helpful. However, I don't have any idea what it
means.

sa-home sayusi # cat /proc/6725/wchan
call_rwsem_down_read_failed
sa-home sayusi #

The callstack look like this (the copied just a part of it):
Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home eep+0x7c/0x80
Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: [<ffffffff8142017b>]
system_call_fastpath+0x16/0x1b
Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: chrome          S ffff8800b334b790
0  6923   6730 0x00000000
Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: ffff8800a6c47c48 0000000000000086
ffff8800a6c47b18 ffffffff8109fe4a
Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: ffff8800a6c47fd8 ffff8800a6c46010
0000000000000001 ffff8800b334b9a0
Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: 0000000000004000 000000000000d580
ffff8800a6c47fd8 00000001a6c47d48
Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: Call Trace:
Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: [<ffffffff8109fe4a>] ?
zone_watermark_ok+0x1a/0x20
Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: [<ffffffff8120a330>] ?
timerqueue_add+0x60/0xb0
Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: [<ffffffff81054aef>] ?
__hrtimer_start_range_ns+0x1df/0x3d0
Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: [<ffffffff810600fa>] ?
get_futex_key+0x15a/0x1c0
Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: [<ffffffff810603b5>]
futex_wait_queue_me+0xc5/0x100
Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: [<ffffffff810605fc>]
futex_wait+0x1ac/0x290
Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: [<ffffffff81053e40>] ?
update_rmtp+0x80/0x80
Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: [<ffffffff810624b1>]
do_futex+0x101/0xac0
Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: [<ffffffff810b6ee0>] ?
handle_mm_fault+0x120/0x230
Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: [<ffffffff81026a6c>] ?
do_page_fault+0x1ac/0x430
Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: [<ffffffff810be7b4>] ?
do_mmap_pgoff+0x344/0x390
Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: [<ffffffff81062ee6>]
sys_futex+0x76/0x170
Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: [<ffffffff810be900>] ?
sys_mmap_pgoff+0x100/0x190
Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: [<ffffffff8142017b>]
system_call_fastpath+0x16/0x1b
Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: chrome          S 0000000000000001
0  6927   6730 0x00000000
Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: ffff8800a6d0bda8 0000000000000086
0000000000000001 ffff88013f4c1710
Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: ffff8800a6d0bfd8 ffff8800a6d0a010
0000000000000001 ffff8800a6c8eec0
Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: 0000000000004000 000000000000d580
ffff8800a6d0bfd8 000000018171eec8
Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: Call Trace:
Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: [<ffffffff8136daad>] ?
sock_aio_read+0x16d/0x180
Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: [<ffffffff8141e360>] ?
__mutex_lock_slowpath+0x1c0/0x260
Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: [<ffffffff8136d4f5>] ?
sock_poll+0x15/0x20
Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: [<ffffffff8141ec55>]
schedule_hrtimeout_range_clock+0x115/0x130
Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: [<ffffffff8141e199>] ?
mutex_unlock+0x9/0x10
Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: [<ffffffff81106ea3>] ?
ep_scan_ready_list+0x183/0x190
Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: [<ffffffff8141ec7e>]
schedule_hrtimeout_range+0xe/0x10
Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: [<ffffffff811071bc>]
ep_poll+0x2ec/0x350
Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: [<ffffffff81031b10>] ?
try_to_wake_up+0x120/0x120
Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: [<ffffffff811072e5>]
sys_epoll_wait+0xc5/0xe0
Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: [<ffffffff8142017b>]
system_call_fastpath+0x16/0x1b
Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: SignalSender    S ffff8800b3f079d0
0  6928   6730 0x00000000
Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: ffff8800a6c85c48 0000000000000086
0000000000000000 ffffffff81611020
Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: ffff8800a6c85fd8 ffff8800a6c84010
0000000000000000 ffff8800b3f07be0
Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: 0000000000004000 000000000000d580
ffff8800a6c85fd8 0000000000000000

My question is that, should I report it on bugs.gentoo.org? By the
way, this bug is not depend on the version.

-- 
- -
--  Csanyi Andras (Sayusi Ando)  -- http://sayusi.hu --
http://facebook.com/andras.csanyi
--  ""Trust in God and keep your gunpowder dry!" - Cromwell

Re: [gentoo-user] chrome and everything

[Alan McKinnon]

On Saturday 25 June 2011 18:38:10 András Csányi did opine thusly:
> On 2 June 2011 11:21, Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Chromium is not the problem, Flash is the problem.
> > 
> > Flash is a piece of shit that has never worked right and Adobe
> > are a bunch of fools that cannot code properly or securely. I
> > can comfortably say this based on long hard bitter experience
> > by the entire Linux community.
> > 
> > If you choose to use Flash, you get to put up with the resulting
> > problems.
> 
> I'm not sure the Flash is the problem. Chromium uses Flash through
> nspluginwrapper. I removed nspluginwrapper package and I recompiled
> few package which depended on nspluginwrapper package. And Chromium
> freezin and creating a D process as you can see on this picture. [1]
> 
> http://sayusi.hu/blog/picture_about_htop
> 
> I asked my friends - they are *nix administrators, and they told me
> this below could be helpful. However, I don't have any idea what it
> means.

Flash is still the root cause, nspluginwrapper is only a symptom.

Flash is notorious for having to fix the same issues over and over 
again in different bits of their code. Not only that, but they keep 
making the same mistakes repeatedly - a very common problem with 
proprietary code driven by deadline and profit-motivated managers.

nspluginwrapper does it's best to cope with this ever-changing 
landscape, but you can't really blame it when things go wrong - Flash 
changes something and don't publish what has now changed. 
nspluginwrapper can't deal with the change, so it breaks.

This will never change, because you can't pick up a turd by the clean 
end.

You could submit your stacktrace below to a bug entry at b.g.o. and 
let the gentoo dev look at it. Most likely he will refer it upstream.



> 
> sa-home sayusi # cat /proc/6725/wchan
> call_rwsem_down_read_failed
> sa-home sayusi #
> 
> The callstack look like this (the copied just a part of it):
> Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home eep+0x7c/0x80
> Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: [<ffffffff8142017b>]
> system_call_fastpath+0x16/0x1b
> Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: chrome          S ffff8800b334b790
> 0  6923   6730 0x00000000
> Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: ffff8800a6c47c48 0000000000000086
> ffff8800a6c47b18 ffffffff8109fe4a
> Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: ffff8800a6c47fd8 ffff8800a6c46010
> 0000000000000001 ffff8800b334b9a0
> Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: 0000000000004000 000000000000d580
> ffff8800a6c47fd8 00000001a6c47d48
> Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: Call Trace:
> Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: [<ffffffff8109fe4a>] ?
> zone_watermark_ok+0x1a/0x20
> Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: [<ffffffff8120a330>] ?
> timerqueue_add+0x60/0xb0
> Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: [<ffffffff81054aef>] ?
> __hrtimer_start_range_ns+0x1df/0x3d0
> Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: [<ffffffff810600fa>] ?
> get_futex_key+0x15a/0x1c0
> Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: [<ffffffff810603b5>]
> futex_wait_queue_me+0xc5/0x100
> Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: [<ffffffff810605fc>]
> futex_wait+0x1ac/0x290
> Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: [<ffffffff81053e40>] ?
> update_rmtp+0x80/0x80
> Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: [<ffffffff810624b1>]
> do_futex+0x101/0xac0
> Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: [<ffffffff810b6ee0>] ?
> handle_mm_fault+0x120/0x230
> Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: [<ffffffff81026a6c>] ?
> do_page_fault+0x1ac/0x430
> Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: [<ffffffff810be7b4>] ?
> do_mmap_pgoff+0x344/0x390
> Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: [<ffffffff81062ee6>]
> sys_futex+0x76/0x170
> Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: [<ffffffff810be900>] ?
> sys_mmap_pgoff+0x100/0x190
> Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: [<ffffffff8142017b>]
> system_call_fastpath+0x16/0x1b
> Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: chrome          S 0000000000000001
> 0  6927   6730 0x00000000
> Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: ffff8800a6d0bda8 0000000000000086
> 0000000000000001 ffff88013f4c1710
> Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: ffff8800a6d0bfd8 ffff8800a6d0a010
> 0000000000000001 ffff8800a6c8eec0
> Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: 0000000000004000 000000000000d580
> ffff8800a6d0bfd8 000000018171eec8
> Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: Call Trace:
> Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: [<ffffffff8136daad>] ?
> sock_aio_read+0x16d/0x180
> Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: [<ffffffff8141e360>] ?
> __mutex_lock_slowpath+0x1c0/0x260
> Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: [<ffffffff8136d4f5>] ?
> sock_poll+0x15/0x20
> Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: [<ffffffff8141ec55>]
> schedule_hrtimeout_range_clock+0x115/0x130
> Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: [<ffffffff8141e199>] ?
> mutex_unlock+0x9/0x10
> Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: [<ffffffff81106ea3>] ?
> ep_scan_ready_list+0x183/0x190
> Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: [<ffffffff8141ec7e>]
> schedule_hrtimeout_range+0xe/0x10
> Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: [<ffffffff811071bc>]
> ep_poll+0x2ec/0x350
> Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: [<ffffffff81031b10>] ?
> try_to_wake_up+0x120/0x120
> Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: [<ffffffff811072e5>]
> sys_epoll_wait+0xc5/0xe0
> Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: [<ffffffff8142017b>]
> system_call_fastpath+0x16/0x1b
> Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: SignalSender    S ffff8800b3f079d0
> 0  6928   6730 0x00000000
> Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: ffff8800a6c85c48 0000000000000086
> 0000000000000000 ffffffff81611020
> Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: ffff8800a6c85fd8 ffff8800a6c84010
> 0000000000000000 ffff8800b3f07be0
> Jun 25 18:33:38 sa-home kernel: 0000000000004000 000000000000d580
> ffff8800a6c85fd8 0000000000000000
> 
> My question is that, should I report it on bugs.gentoo.org? By the
> way, this bug is not depend on the version.
-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] chrome and everything

[Dale]

Alan McKinnon wrote:
> This will never change, because you can't pick up a turd by the clean end.
>    

ROFLMBO  That is so true.

I have to add.  I subscribe to some service that emails security 
problems, usually when they are fixed but anyway.  I get a LOT of those 
related to flash.  If you don't want to believe me or Alan, this is what 
is on the end of the emerge process:

> WARN (postinst)
>
> Flash player is closed-source, with a long history of security
> issues.  Please consider only running flash applets you know to
> be safe.  The 'flashblock' extension may help for mozilla users:
>   https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/433

I have never got anything comet wouldn't get rid of but I have read the 
same from numerous people.  If they are only half right, it is still a 
buggy piece of software.

I just wish there was a really good alternative that was secure.  I 
don't know of any tho.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] chrome and everything

[Alan McKinnon]

On Saturday 25 June 2011 13:39:33 Dale did opine thusly:
> Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > This will never change, because you can't pick up a turd by the
> > clean end.
> 
> ROFLMBO  That is so true.
> 
> I have to add.  I subscribe to some service that emails security
> problems, usually when they are fixed but anyway.  I get a LOT of
> those related to flash.  If you don't want to believe me or Alan,
> this is what
> 
> is on the end of the emerge process:
> > WARN (postinst)
> > 
> > Flash player is closed-source, with a long history of security
> > issues.  Please consider only running flash applets you know to
> > 
> > be safe.  The 'flashblock' extension may help for mozilla users:
> >   https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/433
> 
> I have never got anything comet wouldn't get rid of but I have read
> the same from numerous people.  If they are only half right, it is
> still a buggy piece of software.
> 
> I just wish there was a really good alternative that was secure.  I
> don't know of any tho.

Well there's a few options:

Adobe could publish the entire Flash spec so that projects like gnash 
could implement them fully

or the web could largely use something else instead like HTML5

Both options are unlikely, more's the pity


-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] chrome and everything

[Dale]

Alan McKinnon wrote:
> Well there's a few options:
>
> Adobe could publish the entire Flash spec so that projects like gnash
> could implement them fully
>
> or the web could largely use something else instead like HTML5
>
> Both options are unlikely, more's the pity
>
>    

I know HTML5 is a ways off but I'm hoping it will improve things.  
Internet security seems to be a bit of a problem lately.  Banks and such 
getting hacked is not good.  Either the hackers are getting better or 
some security people ain't getting the job done.  I figure some of 
both.  Add in that hackers seem to be doing things in groups, finding a 
hole is not as hard to do.  I think that is also one reason Linux is as 
secure as it is.  There are lots of people looking at source code so 
finding problems are happening all the time.  I also think Linux folks 
jump on problems and get them fixed quicker too.

I guess Adobe is going to be a weak spot for a good long while.  That's 
not good for Linux, M$ or Macs either I guess.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] chrome and everything

[Alan McKinnon]

On Saturday 25 June 2011 14:39:40 Dale did opine thusly:
> Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > Well there's a few options:
> > 
> > Adobe could publish the entire Flash spec so that projects like
> > gnash could implement them fully
> > 
> > or the web could largely use something else instead like HTML5
> > 
> > Both options are unlikely, more's the pity
> 
> I know HTML5 is a ways off but I'm hoping it will improve things.
> Internet security seems to be a bit of a problem lately.  Banks and
> such getting hacked is not good.  Either the hackers are getting
> better or some security people ain't getting the job done.

The only significant change is that folks like LuzSec are now looking 
in places they did not look in before. The software they find is just 
as good-awful shit quality as it has always been.

> I
> figure some of both.  Add in that hackers seem to be doing things
> in groups, finding a hole is not as hard to do.  I think that is
> also one reason Linux is as secure as it is.  There are lots of
> people looking at source code so finding problems are happening all
> the time.  I also think Linux folks jump on problems and get them
> fixed quicker too.
> 
> I guess Adobe is going to be a weak spot for a good long while. 
> That's not good for Linux, M$ or Macs either I guess.
> 
> Dale
> 
> :-)  :-)
-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

[gentoo-user] Re: chrome and everything

[András Csányi]

On 2 June 2011 10:49, András Csányi <sayusi.ando@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi All,

Just for the record. It looks like this problem is solved. I switched
back to gentoo-sources and I haven't experienced such problems which
is described in my first letter. I have used ck kernel. I would like
to emphasize that this doesn't mean that the ck kernel is bad. It
means that I have to make some tests and figure out what was the
problem and report it.

András

-- 
- -
--  Csanyi Andras (Sayusi Ando)  -- http://sayusi.hu --
http://facebook.com/andras.csanyi
--  ""Trust in God and keep your gunpowder dry!" - Cromwell