From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Q95Iz-0006jO-2w for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Mon, 11 Apr 2011 00:48:37 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 822031C043; Mon, 11 Apr 2011 00:47:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ww0-f53.google.com (mail-ww0-f53.google.com [74.125.82.53]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D8901C043 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2011 00:47:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wwj40 with SMTP id 40so5657210wwj.10 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2011 17:47:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:content-type; bh=s2VNjaUgx9TwCvKauQhQcSwDG1ImX4akrEcFygPrllg=; b=ZkiyMnnda/OdlwvUlqnANXhC8QoLNFu9QaScFyxhfMhQEm+wtIBbUr/JxqxopC30SD c0cXVV8Rrmm9gs/nLa4Y4evtPcw8wZbdYYzQWIRU+9hvyjuc5rpGHHFOB91cTj+R63hS ycmIJb33ETkwXbdkiWb84Zht6kjZtcIe9+YzU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; b=X0D+pG0rqd+384h8krUPbKU5DfnDf7JpSyF14Fqcp+re4HfUpGe3/vVQ0cz+s4RRti Do02yCV8SaQa2jW1RfyK935WwCiP6VVC0ezkGb6TvzQpijCc2SN47U2/q/qCPT46OOUI uPedhXQYy+x0ewJ8ir0G1zsHdkv0jL99IbCws= Received: by 10.227.198.5 with SMTP id em5mr3407814wbb.163.1302482824064; Sun, 10 Apr 2011 17:47:04 -0700 (PDT) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.227.21.141 with HTTP; Sun, 10 Apr 2011 17:46:44 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <201104110048.24436.alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> References: <20110410132146.GA936@muc.de> <201104101708.01721.alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> <201104110048.24436.alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> From: Mark Shields Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 19:46:44 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] su doesn't work for me. To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174bf26e0df05a04a099eaca X-Archives-Salt: X-Archives-Hash: 79aa35796bf57887bdd6f56587319ada --0015174bf26e0df05a04a099eaca Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 5:48 PM, Alan McKinnon wrote: > Apparently, though unproven, at 00:32 on Monday 11 April 2011, Mark Shields > did opine thusly: > > > On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 10:08 AM, Alan McKinnon > wrote: > > > Apparently, though unproven, at 16:28 on Sunday 10 April 2011, Dale did > > > opine > > > > > > thusly: > > > > > That was it! I've now got su-ability from that normal user. > > > > > > > > > > Funny, though, on my (very) old Debian system I don't seem to have > a > > > > > wheel. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > > > > >> Best regards, > > > > >> Yann > > > > > > > > I think that is a Gentoo thing. It does add some security if you > don't > > > > want a user, like maybe some little kid, getting root access for any > > > > reason. > > > > > > No, it's pretty standard across Unix. > > > > > > The BSD's for example have had it since forever - members of the wheel > > > group > > > being allowed to sudo anything only came along much later. > > > > > > Leaving it *out* is a Linux-distro thing, probably from the usual usage > > > case > > > for Linux for many years - a server on the web that actually only had > one > > > user > > > even though it was capable of being fully multi-user. The concept of > > > wheel for > > > su is pretty redundant in that case. > > > > > > > > > -- > > > alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com > > > > Wheel has nothing to do with su; it has everything to do with sudo, but > > only if /etc/sudoers is edited to allow the Wheel group sudo access. Su > > is for changing to a different user, or running a command as another > user; > > doing either requires the password of that user; sudo, on the other hand, > > only requires your password, if you're in the wheel group and the wheel > > group is given full sudo access, and the sudo access for wheel requires > > your password. > > > > Some examples, assuming your user (the one you're logged in as) is in > wheel > > and requires a password for sudo access (see: visudo): > > > > sudo su <--- escalates you to root user with your own password. This is > > running "su" with "sudo". > > su user <--- switches to "user" with their password required to be > entered > > sudo su user < -- switch to "user" with your password required to be > > entered sudo <-- runs command as root > > sudo -u user <--- runs command as "user" > > sudo su - user <--- escalates you to "user" and cd's to their home > > directory > > > > Please read the man pages for sudo and su for more info. > > Mark, > > You know better than that. Re-read my post, I said that *Unix*, most > especially the BSDs, have had a concept of wheel for, well, since almost > when > Unix started. sudo came much later and for sudo, wheel is naturally a very > useful pre-existing thing to use. > > If Linux distros, maintainers or the GNU folk chose to not implement wheel > membership as a prerequisite for su, then that's fine. They can do what > they > want with their stuff but it doesn't change the fact that other operating > systems can, and do, do it differently. > > I have read man su and man sudo. Many times. I see that the ones I have are > very Linux-centric. > > Google "wheel su" for more info, keeping in mind that Linux != Unix > > > > > -- > alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com > > That response wasn't really meant for you, your reply just happened to be the one I clicked reply on. --0015174bf26e0df05a04a099eaca Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 5:48 PM, Alan McKinnon <= span dir=3D"ltr"><alan.mckinn= on@gmail.com> wrote:
Apparently, though unproven, at 00:32 on Monday 11 April 2011, Mark Shields=
did opine thusly:

> On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 10:08 AM, Alan McKinnon
<alan.mckinnon@gmail.com&= gt;wrote:
> > Apparently, though unproven, at 16:28 on Sunday 10 April 2011, Da= le did
> > opine
> >
> > thusly:
> > > > That was it! =A0I've now got su-ability from that n= ormal user.
> > > >
> > > > Funny, though, on my (very) old Debian system I don'= ;t seem to have a
> > > > wheel.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks.
> > > >
> > > >> Best regards,
> > > >> Yann
> > >
> > > I think that is a Gentoo thing. =A0It does add some security= if you don't
> > > want a user, like maybe some little kid, getting root access= for any
> > > reason.
> >
> > No, it's pretty standard across Unix.
> >
> > The BSD's for example have had it since forever - members of = the wheel
> > group
> > being allowed to sudo anything only came along much later.
> >
> > Leaving it *out* is a Linux-distro thing, probably from the usual= usage
> > case
> > for Linux for many years - a server on the web that actually only= had one
> > user
> > even though it was capable of being fully multi-user. The concept= of
> > wheel for
> > su is pretty redundant in that case.
> >
> >
> > --
> > alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
>
> Wheel has nothing to do with su; it has everything to do with sudo, bu= t
> only if /etc/sudoers is edited to allow the Wheel group sudo access. = =A0Su
> is for changing to a different user, or running a command as another u= ser;
> doing either requires the password of that user; sudo, on the other ha= nd,
> only requires your password, if you're in the wheel group and the = wheel
> group is given full sudo access, and the sudo access for wheel require= s
> your password.
>
> Some examples, assuming your user (the one you're logged in as) is= in wheel
> and requires a password for sudo access (see: visudo):
>
> sudo su =A0<--- escalates you to root user with your own password. = =A0This is
> running "su" with "sudo".
> su user <--- switches to "user" with their password requi= red to be entered
> sudo su user < -- switch to "user" with your password req= uired to be
> entered sudo <command> <-- runs command as root
> sudo -u user <command> <--- runs command as "user"<= br> > sudo su - user <--- escalates you to "user" and cd's = to their home
> directory
>
> Please read the man pages for sudo and su for more info.

Mark,

You know better than that. Re-read my post, I said that *Unix*, most
especially the BSDs, have had a concept of wheel for, well, since almost wh= en
Unix started. sudo came much later and for sudo, wheel is naturally a very<= br> useful pre-existing thing to use.

If Linux distros, maintainers or the GNU folk chose to not implement wheel<= br> membership as a prerequisite for su, then that's fine. They can do what= they
want with their stuff but it doesn't change the fact that other operati= ng
systems can, and do, do it differently.

I have read man su and man sudo. Many times. I see that the ones I have are=
very Linux-centric.

Google "wheel su" for more info, keeping in mind that Linux !=3D = Unix




--
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com=

=A0
That response wasn't r= eally meant for you, your reply just happened to be the one I clicked reply= on. --0015174bf26e0df05a04a099eaca--