From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1OdsFd-0005dz-Dy for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 22:03:56 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A8FCDE09A4 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 22:03:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-wy0-f181.google.com (mail-wy0-f181.google.com [74.125.82.181]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97577E094B for ; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 21:16:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wyb36 with SMTP id 36so4575638wyb.40 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 14:16:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=zZlGwt1CYuRsbHKyarQWfioExwuEf4ULSJFCKhO+qew=; b=Oa4Mj5vx2F7qLyWPqycrqGyOl+0Gu3+T9nH5KeV4Op7VqqC3T2dL5y7q7fPAgMG4W3 33Riw68N7ilwERyL+/BGLVYmSz3y3PH0VkT+18wDLo7zvu5U5pIAL3m2BRcrv5v5Os10 eIGGR23RApnxO0NzZXAcMgVVyQBwbqmN+W1EY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=L+JgPj2AtbjBjxB14ghzA6nRyrDENlp7C9bPO9nftHatfQSxIthJbj6yY9LSqBkZKH mV7sBSgTTk5lCFayAw4+dtqtp40JHzwJZ+WO6PMnh55xfjMa3eEcdMFwnVn8VibR76WF krI2klwIXSDC0pAFtA6H04APfClRLWcfYypgM= Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.9.3 with SMTP id 3mr3775700wes.66.1280265406890; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 14:16:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.59.72 with HTTP; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 14:16:46 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <507759.48886.qm@web51902.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <4C4C5F89.2010505@f_philipp.fastmail.net> <4C4DB881.9080805@f_philipp.fastmail.net> <507759.48886.qm@web51902.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 00:16:46 +0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: State of Radeon drivers From: App Deb To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e64c1dc2cbc250048c650418 X-Archives-Salt: 2a504ccb-5864-4313-804b-c13a49ac22ce X-Archives-Hash: 3277ec96978a8e41cc3589e4a626e89c --0016e64c1dc2cbc250048c650418 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Nvidia's binary can't be compared to ATI's one. The problems you describe are ATI-binary specific. And yes the nvidia binary replaces a lot of Xorg stuff, but after some time you will realise that this is a good thing, as the Xorg is a mess, breaks with updates, and introduces bugs with each release. And because developers know that, they always prepare their software for nvidia, as it is the only *serious* graphics solution for *nix right now. Don't get me wrong, I don't even have an nvidia card in my systems right now (cause ATI are superior in windows, all my systems have ATI), but I miss the times that I had one. So much more stuff worked without problems and with better performance. On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 4:42 PM, BRM wrote: > That's great so long as nVidia supports your card. The problem with the > binary drivers is that they typically only support a percentage of all the > cards the video maker makes. > For example, I can't use the ATI binary driver on my laptop since it no > longer supports the R250 chipset, only their latest 3 or 4 generations of > cards. So I have to use the OSS driver, which works great with it. > I have been able to use both the OSS and proprietary drivers on my desktop > with an nVidia card, but I don't know how much longer that will last. > > nVidia's proprietary driver is good namely because it is the same at the > core as on Windows and Mac, and they wrap it to make it work with the *nix > kernels. However, they also do a lot of other funky stuff and keep people > from being able to fully use the full extend of X. Just search this list > (among others) for xRanderer and other components of X and you'll see the > full story of nVidia's proprietary driver. > > Ben > > > *From:* App Deb > *To:* gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org > *Sent:* Tue, July 27, 2010 5:29:10 AM > *Subject:* Re: [gentoo-user] Re: State of Radeon drivers > > If you are going to use any *nix, nvidia is the best option for years now. > The nvidia closed source drivers are of professional quality and have great > performance. Actually they are the *standard* for graphics in *nix, and many > (professional or not) applications actually support only nvidia. > > The ati oss driver is still under development, sometimes it works ok, > sometimes not, and it is mostly for basic desktop usage and in my opinion it > is progressing too slow. Anyway, I don't like having a driver that uses 10% > of my hardware's capabilties. So until it actually reaches 100% (like the > rest of the linux drivers) I can't recommend ATI on linux and nvidia is the > way to go. > > On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 7:32 PM, Florian Philipp < > lists@f_philipp.fastmail.net> wrote: > >> Am 26.07.2010 01:01, schrieb James: >> > Florian Philipp f_philipp.fastmail.net> writes: >> > >> > >> >> I have a quick question: I plan to buy a notebook with an ATI Mobility >> >> Radeon HD 4250. How well would that one work? Can I reasonably expect >> >> Suspend2Ram, 3d acceleration etc to work stable? >> > >> > Well, lots of good information previously posted. Here's a >> > few more tidbits. When ATI video get's older, there's >> > always good opensource solutions to keep using it. Nvidia, >> > sometimes you toss in garbage can, or use vesa or >> > get lucky? Dunno, as I personally avoid Nvidia; other >> > insist on Nvidia..... kinda a religious thing with some..... >> > >> >> Hehe, religious is the right word. I remember a situation at my >> workplace: The admin of our departement IT ordered a Linux workstation >> with (fully supported) ATI graphics. At the last second he was overruled >> by the head of our institute's IT in favor of a completely unsupported >> and more expensive NVidia card. Not only did the poor guy have to wait >> two more weeks for the shipment to arrive, he was also stuck with the >> VESA driver for half a year and unstable NVidia drivers ever since. >> >> Well, thanks everyone who answered! Problem solved. >> >> Florian Philipp >> >> > --0016e64c1dc2cbc250048c650418 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Nvidia's binary can't be compared to ATI's one. The problems yo= u describe are ATI-binary specific.

And yes the nvidia b= inary replaces a lot of Xorg stuff, but after some time you will realise th= at this is a good thing, as the Xorg is a mess, breaks with updates, and in= troduces bugs with each release. And because developers know that, they alw= ays prepare their software for nvidia, as it is the only *serious* graphics= solution for *nix right now.

Don't get me wrong, I don't even have an nvidia= card in my systems right now (cause ATI are superior in windows, all my sy= stems have ATI), but I miss the times that I had one. So much more stuff wo= rked without problems and with better performance.

On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 4:42 PM, BRM <bm_witness@yahoo.com= > wrote:
That's great so long as nVidia supports your card. The pr= oblem with the binary drivers is that they typically only support a percent= age of all the cards the video maker makes.
For example, I can't use the ATI binary driver on my laptop since it no= longer supports the R250 chipset, only their latest 3 or 4 generations of = cards. So I have to use the OSS driver, which works great with it.
I hav= e been able to use both the OSS and proprietary drivers on my desktop with = an nVidia card, but I don't know how much longer that will last.

nVidia's proprietary driver is good namely because it is the same a= t the core as on Windows and Mac, and they wrap it to make it work with the= *nix kernels. However, they also do a lot of other funky stuff and keep pe= ople from being able to fully use the full extend of X. Just search this list (among others) for xRanderer and o= ther components of X and you'll see the full story of nVidia's prop= rietary driver.

Ben

From: App Deb <appdebgr@gmail.com>
To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org<= br>Sent: Tue, July 27, 2010 = 5:29:10 AM
Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] R= e: State of Radeon drivers

If you are going to use any *nix, nvidia is the best option for years now. = The nvidia closed source drivers are of professional quality and have great= performance. Actually they are the *standard* for graphics in *nix, and ma= ny (professional or not) applications actually support only nvidia.

The ati oss driver is still under development, sometimes it = works ok, sometimes not, and it is mostly for basic desktop usage and=C2=A0= in my opinion it is progressing too slow. Anyway, I don't like having a= driver that uses 10% of my hardware's capabilties. So until it actuall= y reaches 100% (like the rest of the linux drivers) I can't recommend A= TI on linux and nvidia is the way to go.

On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 7:32 PM, Floria= n Philipp <lists@f_philipp.fastmail.net>= ; wrote:
Am 26.07.2010 01:01, schrieb James:
> Florian Philipp <lists <at> f_philipp.fastmail.net= > writes:
>
>
>> I have a quick question: I plan to buy a notebook with an ATI Mobi= lity
>> Radeon HD 4250. How well would that one work? Can I reasonably exp= ect
>> Suspend2Ram, 3d acceleration etc to work stable?
>
> Well, lots of good information previously posted. Here's a
> few more tidbits. When ATI video get's older, there's
> always good opensource solutions to keep using it. Nvidia,
> sometimes you toss in garbage can, or use vesa or
> get lucky? Dunno, as I personally avoid Nvidia; other
> insist on Nvidia..... kinda a religious thing with some.....
>

Hehe, religious is the right word. I remember a situation at my
workplace: The admin of our departement IT ordered a Linux workstation
with (fully supported) ATI graphics. At the last second he was overruled by the head of our institute's IT in favor of a completely unsupported<= br> and more expensive NVidia card. Not only did the poor guy have to wait
two more weeks for the shipment to arrive, he was also stuck with the
VESA driver for half a year and unstable NVidia drivers ever since.

Well, thanks everyone who answered! Problem solved.

Florian Philipp



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