[gentoo-user] Feckless xdm not much of a manager

[gentoo-user] Feckless xdm not much of a manager

[Kevin O'Gorman]

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I'm actually working to integrate a new HD monitor in a system built before
HD was invented.  The monitor works better than the old one, but just in 4:3
aspect mode.  But that's another thread, I only mention it so you know I'm
as well off as I was before the old monitor fritzed out on me.

In order to make progress on this thing, it's useful to be able to control
the display manager.  My problem has been that going to /etc/init.d
and commanding "./xdm stop" seems to work, but has no effect on KDE.
Manually killing kde (ps -ef | grep kde, etc) just starts another one.  I
finally figured out that I have to find the 'kdm' process and kill that,
then a logoff or Ctl_Alt_BS actually gets rid of X, so I can do things like
"X -configure" and so on.

Oddly, "./xdm start" worked fine, and was responsible for kdm being started.
  But isn't it odd that the display "manager" has such weak
control on its "subordinate"?  Big PITA for me.

Grrrrr.

-- 
Kevin O'Gorman, PhD

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[gentoo-user] Re: Feckless xdm not much of a manager

[Kevin O'Gorman]

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On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 8:36 PM, Kevin O'Gorman <kogorman@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm actually working to integrate a new HD monitor in a system built before
> HD was invented.  The monitor works better than the old one, but just in 4:3
> aspect mode.  But that's another thread, I only mention it so you know I'm
> as well off as I was before the old monitor fritzed out on me.
>
> In order to make progress on this thing, it's useful to be able to control
> the display manager.  My problem has been that going to /etc/init.d
> and commanding "./xdm stop" seems to work, but has no effect on KDE.
> Manually killing kde (ps -ef | grep kde, etc) just starts another one.  I
> finally figured out that I have to find the 'kdm' process and kill that,
> then a logoff or Ctl_Alt_BS actually gets rid of X, so I can do things like
> "X -configure" and so on.
>
> Oddly, "./xdm start" worked fine, and was responsible for kdm being
> started.   But isn't it odd that the display "manager" has such weak
> control on its "subordinate"?  Big PITA for me.
>
> Grrrrr.
>
>
The reason that some of this was in the past tense is that somehow I've
gotten in a situation
where rebooting does _not_ start a display manager.  Fortunately, "./xdm
start" still works --
it's just more PITA..


-- 
Kevin O'Gorman, PhD

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Re: [gentoo-user] Feckless xdm not much of a manager

[Bill Longman]

On 08/24/2010 08:36 PM, Kevin O'Gorman wrote:
> In order to make progress on this thing, it's useful to be able to
> control the display manager.  My problem has been that going to /etc/init.d
> and commanding "./xdm stop" seems to work, but has no effect on KDE. 
> Manually killing kde (ps -ef | grep kde, etc) just starts another one. 
> I finally figured out that I have to find the 'kdm' process and kill
> that, then a logoff or Ctl_Alt_BS actually gets rid of X, so I can do
> things like
> "X -configure" and so on.

You ~should~ be able to log onto a console vty by using Ctrl-Alt-Fn
(where n=1-6). You can then log on from there and commence all manner of
Gentacular shelly goodness.

There's really no need to kill the display manager ever. In fact, you
can have more than one running at a time.

> Oddly, "./xdm start" worked fine, and was responsible for kdm being
> started.   But isn't it odd that the display "manager" has such weak
> control on its "subordinate"?  Big PITA for me.  

Yeah, that's just a semantic problem, really. The generic term is "xdm"
but depending upon your setup, you can plug in any display manager.

Re: [gentoo-user] Feckless xdm not much of a manager

[Mick]

On 25 August 2010 15:22, Bill Longman <bill.longman@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 08/24/2010 08:36 PM, Kevin O'Gorman wrote:
>> In order to make progress on this thing, it's useful to be able to
>> control the display manager.  My problem has been that going to /etc/init.d
>> and commanding "./xdm stop" seems to work, but has no effect on KDE.
>> Manually killing kde (ps -ef | grep kde, etc) just starts another one.
>> I finally figured out that I have to find the 'kdm' process and kill
>> that, then a logoff or Ctl_Alt_BS actually gets rid of X, so I can do
>> things like
>> "X -configure" and so on.
>
> You ~should~ be able to log onto a console vty by using Ctrl-Alt-Fn
> (where n=1-6). You can then log on from there and commence all manner of
> Gentacular shelly goodness.
>
> There's really no need to kill the display manager ever. In fact, you
> can have more than one running at a time.
>
>> Oddly, "./xdm start" worked fine, and was responsible for kdm being
>> started.   But isn't it odd that the display "manager" has such weak
>> control on its "subordinate"?  Big PITA for me.
>
> Yeah, that's just a semantic problem, really. The generic term is "xdm"
> but depending upon your setup, you can plug in any display manager.

Running /etc/init.d/xdm stop should kill kdm too.  If it respawns,
then run /etc/init.d/xdm zap.
-- 
Regards,
Mick

Re: [gentoo-user] Feckless xdm not much of a manager

[Kevin O'Gorman]

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On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 7:22 AM, Bill Longman <bill.longman@gmail.com>wrote:

> On 08/24/2010 08:36 PM, Kevin O'Gorman wrote:
> > In order to make progress on this thing, it's useful to be able to
> > control the display manager.  My problem has been that going to
> /etc/init.d
> > and commanding "./xdm stop" seems to work, but has no effect on KDE.
> > Manually killing kde (ps -ef | grep kde, etc) just starts another one.
> > I finally figured out that I have to find the 'kdm' process and kill
> > that, then a logoff or Ctl_Alt_BS actually gets rid of X, so I can do
> > things like
> > "X -configure" and so on.
>
> You ~should~ be able to log onto a console vty by using Ctrl-Alt-Fn
> (where n=1-6). You can then log on from there and commence all manner of
> Gentacular shelly goodness.
>
> There's really no need to kill the display manager ever. In fact, you
> can have more than one running at a time.
>
> > Oddly, "./xdm start" worked fine, and was responsible for kdm being
> > started.   But isn't it odd that the display "manager" has such weak
> > control on its "subordinate"?  Big PITA for me.
>
> Yeah, that's just a semantic problem, really. The generic term is "xdm"
> but depending upon your setup, you can plug in any display manager.
>

Sorry, but that has several bits of misinformation.

There are 2 or three activities that the system refuses to perform while the
display is
active.  They require X to be shut down, and you must therefore use one of
the non-X
console ptys.

"xdm" is not a generic term, or at least I didn't mean it that way. It's the
package x11-apps/xdm.

Look it up.

-- 
Kevin O'Gorman, PhD

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Re: [gentoo-user] Feckless xdm not much of a manager

[Kevin O'Gorman]

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On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 7:28 AM, Mick <michaelkintzios@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 25 August 2010 15:22, Bill Longman <bill.longman@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 08/24/2010 08:36 PM, Kevin O'Gorman wrote:
> >> In order to make progress on this thing, it's useful to be able to
> >> control the display manager.  My problem has been that going to
> /etc/init.d
> >> and commanding "./xdm stop" seems to work, but has no effect on KDE.
> >> Manually killing kde (ps -ef | grep kde, etc) just starts another one.
> >> I finally figured out that I have to find the 'kdm' process and kill
> >> that, then a logoff or Ctl_Alt_BS actually gets rid of X, so I can do
> >> things like
> >> "X -configure" and so on.
> >
> [snip]
>


> Running /etc/init.d/xdm stop should kill kdm too.  If it respawns,
> then run /etc/init.d/xdm zap.
> --
> Regards,
> Mick
>
>
zap does nothing about respawning.  It is used when a daemon has somehow
died,
but is still marked as running.  In such a case, you cannot start it again
without zapping
that marking so that it is recorded as being stopped.

I had more or less the opposite case -- a running daemon that was marked as
stopped.
Not exactly, because it was xdm marked as stopped, and kdm that was running.

This problem is repeatable on my system, so I probably borked it somehow.

-- 
Kevin O'Gorman, PhD

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Re: [gentoo-user] Feckless xdm not much of a manager

[Alex Schuster]

Kevin O'Gorman writes:

> This problem is repeatable on my system, so I probably borked it
> somehow.

I know this effect, this happens from time to time. At the moment it is 
working fine, but I got used to killall kdm when the init script did not 
work. It did not bother me too much, so I did not file a bug yet.

	Wonko

Re: [gentoo-user] Feckless xdm not much of a manager

[Robert Bridge]

On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 8:33 PM, Kevin O'Gorman <kogorman@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sorry, but that has several bits of misinformation.
>
> "xdm" is not a generic term, or at least I didn't mean it that way. It's the
> package x11-apps/xdm.

Gentoo uses the term xdm in two ways, one is for the xdm display
manager, provided by that package. The other is for the init scripts
used to launch a display manager. The init script launches the display
manager specified in the config files, kdm being the common one
choosen for KDE.

You are complaining about kdm not shutting down, this is nothing at
all to do with x11-apps/xdm, which is an entirely separate package. If
you have both running, than, again, kdms inability to behave is NOT a
problem of x11-apps/xdm, though, arguably, it could be said to be a
problem of openrc.

RobbieAB

Re: [gentoo-user] Feckless xdm not much of a manager

[Stroller]

On 25 Aug 2010, at 04:36, Kevin O'Gorman wrote:
> ... My problem has been that going to /etc/init.d
> and commanding "./xdm stop" seems to work, but has no effect on  
> KDE.  Manually killing kde (ps -ef | grep kde, etc) just starts  
> another one.  I finally figured out that I have to find the 'kdm'  
> process and kill that, then a logoff or Ctl_Alt_BS actually gets rid  
> of X, so I can do things like
> "X -configure" and so on.

If you run `/etc/init.d/xdm stop` and then log out of KDE using the  
logoff button in the Start Menu, what happens, please? Does xdm return?

Stroller.

Re: [gentoo-user] Feckless xdm not much of a manager

[Michael Orlitzky]

On 08/25/2010 03:37 PM, Kevin O'Gorman wrote:
>
> I had more or less the opposite case -- a running daemon that was marked
> as stopped.
> Not exactly, because it was xdm marked as stopped, and kdm that was running.
>
> This problem is repeatable on my system, so I probably borked it somehow.

Please accept this wild-ass guess from when my Apache instances used to 
do the same thing.

   /etc/conf.d/rc
   --------------
   # Set to "yes" if start-stop-daemon should attempt to kill
   # any children left in the system.
   # Be careful with this as it really does what it was on the tin.
   # fex, if you're in an ssh process and you restart a service on which
   # ssh depends then your terminal will be killed also.

   RC_KILL_CHILDREN="yes"

Re: [gentoo-user] Feckless xdm not much of a manager

[Bill Longman]

On 08/25/2010 01:40 PM, Robert Bridge wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 8:33 PM, Kevin O'Gorman <kogorman@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Sorry, but that has several bits of misinformation.
>>
>> "xdm" is not a generic term, or at least I didn't mean it that way. It's the
>> package x11-apps/xdm.
> 
> Gentoo uses the term xdm in two ways, one is for the xdm display
> manager, provided by that package. The other is for the init scripts
> used to launch a display manager. The init script launches the display
> manager specified in the config files, kdm being the common one
> choosen for KDE.

You put it very well, Robbie. I should have said xdm is the more
"ancient" term, the generic display manager that's been around since the
dawn of X. Which everyone hated. So folks wrote new ones that had more
pizazz and nifty features, which they loved. They're all still X display
managers (thus, xdm), so you use xdm to start it. One of your display
managers could be ye olde xdm, if you choose.

Re: [gentoo-user] Feckless xdm not much of a manager

[Kevin O'Gorman]

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On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 4:00 PM, Stroller <stroller@stellar.eclipse.co.uk>wrote:

>
> On 25 Aug 2010, at 04:36, Kevin O'Gorman wrote:
>
>> ... My problem has been that going to /etc/init.d
>>
>> and commanding "./xdm stop" seems to work, but has no effect on KDE.
>>  Manually killing kde (ps -ef | grep kde, etc) just starts another one.  I
>> finally figured out that I have to find the 'kdm' process and kill that,
>> then a logoff or Ctl_Alt_BS actually gets rid of X, so I can do things like
>> "X -configure" and so on.
>>
>
> If you run `/etc/init.d/xdm stop` and then log out of KDE using the logoff
> button in the Start Menu, what happens, please? Does xdm return?
>
> Stroller.
>
>
Things have changed slightly since the last reboot.  Now it goes like this:
  /etc/init.d/xdm stop
Kde dies, xdm dies, ps -ef shows no signs of either one, and Ctl-Alt-F7 gets
me a blank screen with a blinking cursor, but no response to the keyboard.

Back in a root console,
 /etc/init.d/xdm start      or    /etc/init.d/xdm status
Now reports that xdm is stopping.  This goes on until I run out of patience,
and zap xdm
  /etc/init.d/xdm zap
  /etc/init.d/xdm start

which seems to work -- it gets me to a KDE login.   I'm not aware of doing
anything that would have made this change.

-- 
Kevin O'Gorman, PhD

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