[gentoo-user] Legacy GRUB vs GRUB2

[gentoo-user] Legacy GRUB vs GRUB2

[Tanstaafl]

On 2010-06-18 12:17 PM, Bill Longman wrote:
> And finally, don't even mention how braindead the "new" improved
> grub is. I wonder how anyone can feel that having to write six
> paragraphs > in some one-off bash-like language, which needs to be
> debugged, is better than four lines in a config file.

This brings up a question I've been meaning to ask...

Since I have no desire to experience this new 'improved' GRUB, but don't
like LILO - how long will it be before I'll be forced to make a choice?
Meaning, how long will legacy GRUB still be supported?

Re: [gentoo-user] Legacy GRUB vs GRUB2

[Dale]

Tanstaafl wrote:
> On 2010-06-18 12:17 PM, Bill Longman wrote:
>    
>> And finally, don't even mention how braindead the "new" improved
>> grub is. I wonder how anyone can feel that having to write six
>> paragraphs>  in some one-off bash-like language, which needs to be
>> debugged, is better than four lines in a config file.
>>      
> This brings up a question I've been meaning to ask...
>
> Since I have no desire to experience this new 'improved' GRUB, but don't
> like LILO - how long will it be before I'll be forced to make a choice?
> Meaning, how long will legacy GRUB still be supported?
>
>    

If I read the home page correctly, they are not really doing much more 
than bug fixes on the old grub.  That was my reading at least.  I'm 
dreading that day too.  I sort of like my old grub.  I started on lilo 
and grub has seriously grown on me.  I'll switch to the new grub tho.  I 
have NO plans to go back to lilo.  None whatsoever ! !

Dale

:-)  :-)

[gentoo-user] Re: Legacy GRUB vs GRUB2

[walt]

On 06/22/2010 11:44 AM, Dale wrote:
> Tanstaafl wrote:
>> On 2010-06-18 12:17 PM, Bill Longman wrote:
>>> And finally, don't even mention how braindead the "new" improved
>>> grub is. I wonder how anyone can feel that having to write six
>>> paragraphs> in some one-off bash-like language, which needs to be
>>> debugged, is better than four lines in a config file.
>> This brings up a question I've been meaning to ask...
>>
>> Since I have no desire to experience this new 'improved' GRUB, but don't
>> like LILO - how long will it be before I'll be forced to make a choice?
>> Meaning, how long will legacy GRUB still be supported?
>>
>
> If I read the home page correctly, they are not really doing much more than bug fixes on the old grub. That was my reading at least. I'm dreading that day too. I sort of like my old grub. I started on lilo and grub has seriously grown on me. I'll switch
> to the new grub tho. I have NO plans to go back to lilo. None whatsoever ! !

IIUC the change will be forced by mobo manufacturers when they adopt the
newer partition tables and boot/BIOS methods .  They have catchy acronyms
that I can't remember, naturally, but we've all seen them discussed in this
group from time to time.  Don't buy new mobos and you can stick to old grub.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Legacy GRUB vs GRUB2

[Per-Erik Westerberg]

tis 2010-06-22 klockan 12:15 -0700 skrev walt:
> On 06/22/2010 11:44 AM, Dale wrote:
> > Tanstaafl wrote:
> >> On 2010-06-18 12:17 PM, Bill Longman wrote:
> >>> And finally, don't even mention how braindead the "new" improved
> >>> grub is. I wonder how anyone can feel that having to write six
> >>> paragraphs> in some one-off bash-like language, which needs to be
> >>> debugged, is better than four lines in a config file.
> >> This brings up a question I've been meaning to ask...
> >>
> >> Since I have no desire to experience this new 'improved' GRUB, but don't
> >> like LILO - how long will it be before I'll be forced to make a choice?
> >> Meaning, how long will legacy GRUB still be supported?
> >>
> >
> > If I read the home page correctly, they are not really doing much more than bug fixes on the old grub. That was my reading at least. I'm dreading that day too. I sort of like my old grub. I started on lilo and grub has seriously grown on me. I'll switch
> > to the new grub tho. I have NO plans to go back to lilo. None whatsoever ! !
> 
> IIUC the change will be forced by mobo manufacturers when they adopt the
> newer partition tables and boot/BIOS methods .  They have catchy acronyms
> that I can't remember, naturally, but we've all seen them discussed in this
> group from time to time.  Don't buy new mobos and you can stick to old grub.
> 
> 

Is there a GRUB to GRUB2 migration guide somewhere in the Gentoo
Documentation?

  BR / P-E

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Legacy GRUB vs GRUB2

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Dienstag 22 Juni 2010, walt wrote:
> On 06/22/2010 11:44 AM, Dale wrote:
> > Tanstaafl wrote:
> >> On 2010-06-18 12:17 PM, Bill Longman wrote:
> >>> And finally, don't even mention how braindead the "new" improved
> >>> grub is. I wonder how anyone can feel that having to write six
> >>> paragraphs> in some one-off bash-like language, which needs to be
> >>> debugged, is better than four lines in a config file.
> >> 
> >> This brings up a question I've been meaning to ask...
> >> 
> >> Since I have no desire to experience this new 'improved' GRUB, but don't
> >> like LILO - how long will it be before I'll be forced to make a choice?
> >> Meaning, how long will legacy GRUB still be supported?
> > 
> > If I read the home page correctly, they are not really doing much more
> > than bug fixes on the old grub. That was my reading at least. I'm
> > dreading that day too. I sort of like my old grub. I started on lilo and
> > grub has seriously grown on me. I'll switch to the new grub tho. I have
> > NO plans to go back to lilo. None whatsoever ! !
> 
> IIUC the change will be forced by mobo manufacturers when they adopt the
> newer partition tables and boot/BIOS methods .  They have catchy acronyms
> that I can't remember, naturally, but we've all seen them discussed in this
> group from time to time.  Don't buy new mobos and you can stick to old
> grub.

mobos? why should mobos have any influence?

And what have mobos to do with the fact that whenever GNU lay their dirty 
hands on a project they will no rest until they turned something decent and 
usefull into an overly complex, drowned in obscure options and hard to 
configure mess?

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Legacy GRUB vs GRUB2

[Ivan S. Freitas]

Anyone tried gujin http://gujin.sourceforge.net/ ? I think it may
become an alernative to grub2, but I never found anyone who have used
it.


-- 
==============================================
Ivan Sichmann Freitas
Engenharia de Computação 2009
UNICAMP
http://identi.ca/ivansichmann
Grupo Pró Software Livre UNICAMP - GPSL
==============================================

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Legacy GRUB vs GRUB2

[Bill Longman]

On 06/22/2010 12:29 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> On Dienstag 22 Juni 2010, walt wrote:
>> On 06/22/2010 11:44 AM, Dale wrote:
>>> Tanstaafl wrote:
>>>> On 2010-06-18 12:17 PM, Bill Longman wrote:
>>>>> And finally, don't even mention how braindead the "new" improved
>>>>> grub is. I wonder how anyone can feel that having to write six
>>>>> paragraphs> in some one-off bash-like language, which needs to be
>>>>> debugged, is better than four lines in a config file.
>>>>
>>>> This brings up a question I've been meaning to ask...
>>>>
>>>> Since I have no desire to experience this new 'improved' GRUB, but don't
>>>> like LILO - how long will it be before I'll be forced to make a choice?
>>>> Meaning, how long will legacy GRUB still be supported?
>>>
>>> If I read the home page correctly, they are not really doing much more
>>> than bug fixes on the old grub. That was my reading at least. I'm
>>> dreading that day too. I sort of like my old grub. I started on lilo and
>>> grub has seriously grown on me. I'll switch to the new grub tho. I have
>>> NO plans to go back to lilo. None whatsoever ! !
>>
>> IIUC the change will be forced by mobo manufacturers when they adopt the
>> newer partition tables and boot/BIOS methods .  They have catchy acronyms
>> that I can't remember, naturally, but we've all seen them discussed in this
>> group from time to time.  Don't buy new mobos and you can stick to old
>> grub.
> 
> mobos? why should mobos have any influence?
> 
> And what have mobos to do with the fact that whenever GNU lay their dirty 
> hands on a project they will no rest until they turned something decent and 
> usefull into an overly complex, drowned in obscure options and hard to 
> configure mess?

Because of EFI firmware, that's why mobos would effect it. Like the Sun
Openboot PROM docs say somewhere: "BIOS? We don't need no stinkin'
BIOS". Same with the lame x86 status quo. At least nowadays we could
have two different versions of it on board and it's not a hardware chip
anymore, but, compared to most other intelligent platforms, PC BIOS is
pretty braindead.

Volker, I feel your pain every time I have to use two "--" instead of
one "-" on my flags. Does -help take one or two? (I'm sure I can easily
start a raging, apocalyptic forest fire by mentioning "man" and "info"
in the same sentence :-)

[gentoo-user] Re: Legacy GRUB vs GRUB2

[walt]

On 06/22/2010 12:29 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:

> And what have mobos to do with the fact that whenever GNU lay their dirty
> hands on a project they will not rest until they turned something decent and
> useful into an overly complex, drowned in obscure options and hard to
> configure mess?

I can't possibly argue with you because I agree with you. Like Bill just said:
I feel your pain -- every time I run into a problem with autotools -- or even
when I read a HOWTO about using autotools.

Just a day or two ago I compiled a package (naturally I can't remember which
package) that specifically required a build framework *other than* autotools.

I got up out of my chair and shouted "YES!" (I was alone and I couldn't share
my joy with anyone, so thanks for giving me this opportunity :)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Legacy GRUB vs GRUB2

[kashani]

On 6/22/2010 1:46 PM, Bill Longman wrote:
>
> Because of EFI firmware, that's why mobos would effect it. Like the Sun
> Openboot PROM docs say somewhere: "BIOS? We don't need no stinkin'
> BIOS". Same with the lame x86 status quo. At least nowadays we could
> have two different versions of it on board and it's not a hardware chip
> anymore, but, compared to most other intelligent platforms, PC BIOS is
> pretty braindead.
>

	For the record only Sun servers have ever made me utter, "Let me get 
this straight. I have to update the firware on the POWER SUPPLY too?!?" 
E6500s circa '99.

kashani

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Legacy GRUB vs GRUB2

[Maximilian Bräutigam]

Am 22.06.2010 21:22, schrieb Per-Erik Westerberg:
> tis 2010-06-22 klockan 12:15 -0700 skrev walt:
>> On 06/22/2010 11:44 AM, Dale wrote:
>>> Tanstaafl wrote:
>>>> On 2010-06-18 12:17 PM, Bill Longman wrote:
>>>>> And finally, don't even mention how braindead the "new" improved
>>>>> grub is. I wonder how anyone can feel that having to write six
>>>>> paragraphs> in some one-off bash-like language, which needs to be
>>>>> debugged, is better than four lines in a config file.
>>>> This brings up a question I've been meaning to ask...
>>>>
>>>> Since I have no desire to experience this new 'improved' GRUB, but don't
>>>> like LILO - how long will it be before I'll be forced to make a choice?
>>>> Meaning, how long will legacy GRUB still be supported?
>>>>
>>>
>>> If I read the home page correctly, they are not really doing much more than bug fixes on the old grub. That was my reading at least. I'm dreading that day too. I sort of like my old grub. I started on lilo and grub has seriously grown on me. I'll switch
>>> to the new grub tho. I have NO plans to go back to lilo. None whatsoever ! !
>>
>> IIUC the change will be forced by mobo manufacturers when they adopt the
>> newer partition tables and boot/BIOS methods .  They have catchy acronyms
>> that I can't remember, naturally, but we've all seen them discussed in this
>> group from time to time.  Don't buy new mobos and you can stick to old grub.
>>
>>
> 
> Is there a GRUB to GRUB2 migration guide somewhere in the Gentoo
> Documentation?
> 
>   BR / P-E

I did it 2 weeks ago with lil help of:

http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/Grub2

And I didn't use the multislot, that was unnecessary, since os-prober is
working perfectly.

Kind regards,
der Max
-- 
Maximilian Bräutigam
max-braeu@gmx.de
GPG key-id F9E42811

http://www.jcf.uni-jena.de

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Legacy GRUB vs GRUB2

[Rod]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 660 bytes --]

On 23/06/2010 3:43 PM, Maximilian Bräutigam wrote:
>
>> Is there a GRUB to GRUB2 migration guide somewhere in the Gentoo
>> Documentation?
>>
>>    BR / P-E
>>      
> I did it 2 weeks ago with lil help of:
>
> http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/Grub2
>
> And I didn't use the multislot, that was unnecessary, since os-prober is
> working perfectly.
>
> Kind regards,
> der Max
>    

     Hi, would you like to check your GNU GRUB 2 external link at the 
end, I just clicked it and got a


  404 - Page Not Found

The page you were looking for could not be found on the GNU web server.
http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/grub-2.en.html


[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1233 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Legacy GRUB vs GRUB2

[Stroller]

On 23 Jun 2010, at 07:00, Rod wrote:
> On 23/06/2010 3:43 PM, Maximilian Bräutigam wrote:
>>
>>> Is there a GRUB to GRUB2 migration guide somewhere in the Gentoo
>>> Documentation?
>>>
>>>   BR / P-E
>>>
>> I did it 2 weeks ago with lil help of:
>>
>> http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/Grub2
>>
>> And I didn't use the multislot, that was unnecessary, since os- 
>> prober is
>> working perfectly.
>
>     Hi, would you like to check your GNU GRUB 2 external link at the  
> end, I just clicked it and got a
> 404 - Page Not Found
> The page you were looking for could not be found on the GNU web  
> server.
> http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/grub-2.en.html
>

So fix it. It's a wiki. It depends on community members to make  
corrections and improvements.

Stroller.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Legacy GRUB vs GRUB2

[Maximilian Bräutigam]

Am 23.06.2010 08:00, schrieb Rod:
> On 23/06/2010 3:43 PM, Maximilian Bräutigam wrote:
>>
>>> Is there a GRUB to GRUB2 migration guide somewhere in the Gentoo
>>> Documentation?
>>>
>>>   BR / P-E
>>>     
>> I did it 2 weeks ago with lil help of:
>>
>> http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/Grub2
>>
>> And I didn't use the multislot, that was unnecessary, since os-prober is
>> working perfectly.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> der Max
>>   
> 
>     Hi, would you like to check your GNU GRUB 2 external link at the
> end, I just clicked it and got a
> 
> 
>   404 - Page Not Found
> 
> The page you were looking for could not be found on the GNU web server.
> http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/grub-2.en.html
> 


Hi Rod,

works w/o problems in my case, but you could also visit gentoo-wiki.com
and navigate yourself to the Grub2 entry.

By the way, I read that Grub2 has been completely rewritten, so it's not
just bug fixing.
Here the links, language de:

http://www.linux-magazin.de/NEWS/Ubuntu-waehlt-Grub-2.0?category=0
http://www.linux-magazin.de/Online-Artikel/Schoener-Booten?category=0

Kind regards,
der Max

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Legacy GRUB vs GRUB2

[Bill Longman]

On 06/22/2010 09:37 PM, kashani wrote:
>     For the record only Sun servers have ever made me utter, "Let me get
> this straight. I have to update the firware on the POWER SUPPLY too?!?"
> E6500s circa '99.

:-)

And the "hotswap" E250 power supply. You know, the one that you have to
tell the kernel that the new power supply is ready. More like "warmswap".

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Legacy GRUB vs GRUB2

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Dienstag 22 Juni 2010, Bill Longman wrote:
>I'm sure I can easily start a raging, apocalyptic forest fire by mentioning 
"man" and "info"
> in the same sentence

there is no way to reply to this without using lots of highly forbidden words. 
Also death threats.

So I will try to stay calm and drink some very cold water. And maybe punch a 
wall.