From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1OmTip-0005yh-0B for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Fri, 20 Aug 2010 15:41:43 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E9981E0990; Fri, 20 Aug 2010 15:40:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-qw0-f53.google.com (mail-qw0-f53.google.com [209.85.216.53]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98678E0990 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 2010 15:40:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qwe5 with SMTP id 5so3443539qwe.40 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 2010 08:40:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=TqjMISwQLGzD9Q1zZovcVH22gt2TtcyvykYKDLtTIrM=; b=YvpOiXOfHFhibsjr1j9XeVTfDNdxF/qyLhg92IWQ38pN8RctVUGyh9eKcYwX1iIgiO Apv81wYaaG+EHSTx40UlZ8FAotnqkzQE4MfszDcbnMvttoMA+SnPxD6E5EUU6MSLikD4 KPAcPTwEHNpcRBgttKvmxDkf0EC6kRHGuwmZ8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=YEQomZprPs4x4k0jF0QijorXC3pprqhZrpRijv8xQB0GiJppyDLpFAP0JeoObwCUOA 751EjIsG2w8RJBJuFABWoHkGiWTtsPDWteRdeC6yEy/PDwtOzWxMHvnNldGoZ5D2ROb0 rRU+nrvKmwOmP3K0KnQjWOVu30i693M+K6hAc= Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.28.77 with SMTP id l13mr1031603qac.320.1282318844760; Fri, 20 Aug 2010 08:40:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.249.213 with HTTP; Fri, 20 Aug 2010 08:40:44 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <201008201558.21825.peter@humphrey.ukfsn.org> References: <201008200038.10640.peter@humphrey.ukfsn.org> <4C6E8123.30301@gmail.com> <201008201558.21825.peter@humphrey.ukfsn.org> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 08:40:44 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] I can RTFM, but can I understand it: re elog messages From: "Kevin O'Gorman" To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015175caa243b1808048e431f2f X-Archives-Salt: 03b8c548-ca24-4dcf-8862-5565a301a5e1 X-Archives-Hash: 9c3eac61389f1b5c092abf692f99a5ff --0015175caa243b1808048e431f2f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 7:58 AM, Peter Humphrey w= rote: > On Friday 20 August 2010 14:20:35 Bill Longman wrote: > > On 08/19/2010 04:38 PM, Peter Humphrey wrote: > > > On Thursday 19 August 2010 21:21:20 Kevin O'Gorman wrote: > > >> So I looked up "auto-hinter" in the flagedit(1) program. It says: > > >> auto-hinter: Local Flag: Use the unpatented auto-hinter instead > > >> of the (recommended) TrueType bytecode interpreter (media- > > >> libs/freetype) > > >> > > >> The placement of the "(recommended)" is just a bit ambiguous. > > > > > > No, it isn't. You may be being confused by the unnecessary > > > inclusion of brackets (parentheses if you're American); remove > > > them and you see that the TrueType byte-code interpreter is > > > recommended. Or, just consider the phrase "the recommended > > > TrueType bytecode interpreter", with or without brackets. I can't > > > see how that could be thought ambiguous. > > > > I have to agree it's ambiguous. You have to wonder why the > > parenthetical "recommended" is offset if it's just part of the > > sentence. If it were as you say, there would be no need to put them > > there. As it is written it sounds like it's making an aside claiming > > that one of them is recommended and, by its placement, it's hard to > > discern its antecedent. > > Its placement puts it squarely with the noun phrase following it. To > associate it with the preceding one instead would be perverse. (Just to > continue flogging a dead horse...) :-) > > I agree though that the brackets are neither necessary nor helpful. > > Interesting replies all, especially the OT ones about parentheses, about which more later. For the me the confusion arises because I've become used to seeing "(recommended)" coming just after the item being described as such. So I would see options a, b (recommended), or c. This was my reason for making the guess I did, although the rest of the punctuation was less clear than m= y example, thus the ambiguity. As was pointed out, it also struck me that if "recommended" was intended to apply to the second option, the () thingies were better omitted. As to the thingies, I enjoyed discovering that to many people a parenthesis is not a glyph or punctuation mark, but instead the contents of the languag= e set aside in one way or another. I had always regarded parentheses as the round glyphs (), but this turns out to be normative primarily in mathematics, computer programming languages and similar fields. But I find several competing meanings and sources using http://dictionary.reference.com/cite.html?qh=3Dparenthesis&ia=3Dluna =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D pa=C2=B7ren=C2=B7the=C2=B7sis=E2=80=82 [image: parenthesis pronunciation] =E2=80=82/p=C9=99=CB=88r=C9=9Bn=CE=B8=C9=99s=C9=AAs/ Show Spelled[puh-ren-thuh-sis] Show IPA =E2=80=93noun, plural -ses [image: parenthesis pronunciation] =E2=80=82/-=CB=8Csiz/ Show Spelled[-seez] Show IPA. 1. either or both of a pair of signs ( ) used in writing to mark off an interjected explanatory or qualifying remark, to indicate separate grouping= s of symbols in mathematics and symbolic logic, etc. 2. Usually, parentheses. the material contained within these marks. 3. Grammar . a qualifying, explanatory, or appositive word, phrase, clause, or sentence that interrupts a syntactic construction without otherwise affecting it, having often a characteristic intonation and indicated in writing by commas, parentheses, or dashes, as in William Smith=E2=80=94you = must know him=E2=80=94is coming tonight. 4. an interval. Dictionary.com, "parenthesis," in *Dictionary.com Unabridged*. Source location: Random House, Inc. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/parenthesis. Available: http://dictionary.reference.com. Accessed: August 20, 2010. ------------------------------ *Origin: * 1560=E2=80=9370; < LL < Gk par=C3=A9nthesis a putting in beside. See par-, en- 2 , thesis Dictionary.com Unabridged Based on the Random House Dictionary, =C2=A9 Random House, Inc. 2010. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D also this: *parenthesis * (p=C9=99=CB=88r=C9=9Bn=CE=B8=C9=AAs=C9=AAs) [image: [Click f= or IPA pronunciation guide]] =E2=80=94 *n * , *pl * *-ses * 1. a phrase, often explanatory or qualifyi= ng, inserted into a passage with which it is not grammatically connected, and marked off by brackets, dashes, etc 2. Also called: *bracket * either of a pair of characters, (), used to enclose such a phrase or as a sign of aggregation in mathematical or logical expressions 3. an intervening occurrence; interlude; interval 4. *in parenthesis * inserted as a parenthesis [C16: via Late Latin from Greek: something placed in besides, from *parentithenai, * from para- 1 + en- =C2=B2 + *tithenai * to put] Dictionary.com, "parenthesis," in *Collins English Dictionary - Complete & Unabridged 10th Edition*. Source location: HarperCollins Publishers. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/parenthesis. Available: http://dictionary.reference.com. Accessed: August 20, 2010. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D And, finally Word Origin & History parenthesis 1550, "words, clauses, etc. inserted into a sentence," from M.Fr. parenth=C3=A8se, from L.L. parenthesis "addition of a letter to a syllabl= e in a word," from Gk. parenthesis, lit. "a putting in beside," from parentithena= i "put in beside," from para- "beside" + en- "in" + tithenai "put, place,= " from PIE base *dhe- "to put, to do" (see factitious). Extension of the word to the curved brackets that indicate the words inserted is from 1715. Dictionary.com, "parenthesis," in *Online Etymology Dictionary*. Source location: Douglas Harper, Historian. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/parenthesis. Available: http://dictionary.reference.com. Accessed: August 20, 2010. --=20 Kevin O'Gorman, PhD --0015175caa243b1808048e431f2f Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 7:58 AM, Peter Humphrey = <peter@hum= phrey.ukfsn.org> wrote:
On Friday 20 August 2010 14:20:35 Bill Lo= ngman wrote:
> On 08/19/2010 04:38 PM, Peter Humphrey wrote:
> > On Thursday 19 August 2010 21:21:20 Kevin O'Gorman wrote:
> >> So I looked up "auto-hinter" in the flagedit(1) pro= gram. It says:
> >> auto-hinter: Local Flag: Use the unpatented auto-hinter inste= ad
> >> of the (recommended) TrueType bytecode interpreter (media- > >> libs/freetype)
> >>
> >> The placement of the "(recommended)" is just a bit = ambiguous.
> >
> > No, it isn't. You may be being confused by the unnecessary > > inclusion of brackets (parentheses if you're American); remov= e
> > them and you see that the TrueType byte-code interpreter is
> > recommended. Or, just consider the phrase "the recommended > > TrueType bytecode interpreter", with or without brackets. I = can't
> > see how that could be thought ambiguous.
>
> I have to agree it's ambiguous. You have to wonder why the
> parenthetical "recommended" is offset if it's just part = of the
> sentence. If it were as you say, there would be no need to put them > there. As it is written it sounds like it's making an aside claimi= ng
> that one of them is recommended and, by its placement, it's hard t= o
> discern its antecedent.

Its placement puts it squarely with the noun phrase following i= t. To
associate it with the preceding one instead would be perverse. (Just to
continue flogging a dead horse...) =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0:-)

I agree though that the brackets are neither necessary nor helpful.


Interesting replies all, es= pecially the OT ones about parentheses, about which more later.

For = the me the confusion arises because I've become used to seeing "(r= ecommended)" coming just after the item being=C2=A0 described as such.= So I would see options a, b (recommended), or c.=C2=A0 This was my reason = for making the guess I did, although the rest of the punctuation was less c= lear than my example, thus the ambiguity.=C2=A0 As was pointed out, it also= struck me that if "recommended" was intended to apply to the sec= ond option, the () thingies were better omitted.

<OT>
As to the thingies, I enjoyed discovering that to many pe= ople a parenthesis is not a glyph or punctuation mark, but instead the cont= ents of the language set aside in one way or another.=C2=A0 I had always re= garded parentheses as the round glyphs (), but this turns out to be normati= ve primarily in mathematics, computer programming languages and similar fie= lds.=C2=A0 But I find several competing meanings and sources using http://dictionary.reference.com/cite.html?qh=3Dparenthesis&ia=3Dluna=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

pa=C2=B7re= n=C2=B7the=C2=B7sis

=E2=80=82 =E2=80=82/p=C9=99=CB=88r=C9=9Bn3D""=CE=B8=C9=993D"=s=C9=AAs/ = Show Spelled[puh-ren-thuh-sis] Show IPA
=E2=80=93noun, plural -ses 3D"parenthesis= =E2=80=82/-=CB=8Csiz/ Show Spelled[-seez] Show IPA.
1.
either or both= of a pair of signs ( ) = used in writing to mark off an interjected explanator= y or qualifying remark, to indicate = separate groupings = of symbols in mathematics=C2=A0symbolic logic, etc.
2.
Usually, parentheses. the contained within these marks.
3.
Gramma= r . a qualifying, explanatory, or appositive word, phrase, clause, or sentence that = interrupts a syntactic constr= uction without otherwise affe= cting it, having often a characteristic intonation and indicated i= n writing by commas, parentheses, or dash= es, as in William Smith=E2= =80=94you must know him=E2= =80=94is coming tonight.
4.
an interval.
Dictionary.com, "parenthe= sis," in Dictionary.com Unabridged. Source location: Random Hou= se, Inc. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/parenthesis. Ava= ilable: htt= p://dictionary.reference.com. Accessed: August 20, 2010.
Origin:
1560=E2=80= =9370; =C2=A0< L= L < Gk par=C3=A9nthesis = =C2=A0a putting i= n beside. See par-= , en-2 , thesis
Dictionary.com Unab= ridged
Based on <= span id=3D"hotword" name=3D"hotword" onmouseover=3D"this.style.cursor=3D= 9;default'" onmouseout=3D"this.style.backgroundColor=3D'transparent= '" onclick=3D"this.style.backgroundColor=3D'#b5d5ff';return hot= Word(this);">the Random House Dictionary, =C2=A9 Random House, Inc. = 2010.


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D
also this:
parenthesis =C2=A0(p=C9=99=CB=88r=C9=9Bn=CE= =B8=C9=AAs=C9=AAs) 3D"[Click
=C2=A0
=E2=80=94 n =C2=A0, pl -ses
1. a phrase, often explanatory or qualifying, inserted = into a passage with which i= t is not g= rammatically connected, and marked o= ff by brackets, dashes, etc
2. Also called: bracket =C2=A0either o= f a pair o= f characters, (), used <= span id=3D"hotword" name=3D"hotword" onmouseover=3D"this.style.cursor=3D= 9;default'" onmouseout=3D"this.style.backgroundColor=3D'transparent= '" onclick=3D"this.style.backgroundColor=3D'#b5d5ff';return hot= Word(this);">to enclose such = a phrase or = as a sign o= f aggregation in mathematica= l or logical expressions
3. an intervening= occurrence; interlude; interval
4. in parenthesi= s =C2=A0inserted as a parenthe= sis
=C2=A0
[C16: via Late Latin from Greek:<= /span> something placed in b= esides, from parentithenai, =C2=A0from para- 1 =C2=A0+ en- =C2=B2 + tithena= i =C2=A0to put]
Dictionary.com, "parenthesis," in Collins= English Dictionary - Complete & Unabridged 10th Edition. Source lo= cation: HarperCollins Publishers. http://dictionary.reference.com/br= owse/parenthesis. Available: http://dictionary.reference.com. Accessed: August= 20, 2010.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
And, finally

Word Origin & History

parenthesis <= br>
1550, "words, clauses, etc. inserted into <= span id=3D"hotword" name=3D"hotword" onmouseover=3D"this.style.cursor=3D= 9;default'" onmouseout=3D"this.style.backgroundColor=3D'transparent= '" onclick=3D"this.style.backgroundColor=3D'#b5d5ff';return hot= Word(this);">a sentence," from M.Fr. parenth=C3=A8se, <= span id=3D"hotword">=C2=A0from L.L. parenthesis =C2=A0"addition of a letter to a syllable = in a word," from <= span id=3D"hotword" name=3D"hotword" onmouseover=3D"this.style.cursor=3D= 9;default'" onmouseout=3D"this.style.backgroundColor=3D'transparent= '" onclick=3D"this.style.backgroundColor=3D'#b5d5ff';return hot= Word(this);">Gk. parenthesis, =C2= =A0lit. "a p= utting in beside," from p= arentithenai =C2=A0= "put in beside," from para- =C2=A0"beside" + en- =C2=A0"in" + tithenai =C2= =A0= "put, place," from PIE base *dhe- = =C2=A0"to put,= to do" (see factitious). Extension of the= word to the= curved brackets t= hat indicate the words i= nserted is from 1715.

Dictionary.com, "parenthesis," in Online Etymology D= ictionary. Source location: Douglas Harper, Historian. http://di= ctionary.reference.com/browse/parenthesis. Available: http://dictionary.reference.= com. Accessed: August 20, 2010.

</OT>
--
Kevin O'Gorman, PhD

--0015175caa243b1808048e431f2f--