[gentoo-user] OT: PC as USB client

[gentoo-user] OT: PC as USB client

[Alex Schuster]

Hi there!

Not really specific to gentoo, except that I want to do this with a Gentoo 
PC: Is it possible to attach my Gentoo PC 'G' to another PC 'W' (running 
Windows) via USB, so that G appears to be a removable media to W? I think 
you need special USB cables with some electronics in the middlle for that, 
and I saw such a solution for Windows. Does anybody know if this is possible 
with Linux?
There is a usbnet driver for Linux, but this is not what I want.

Thanks,
	Wonko

Re: [gentoo-user] OT: PC as USB client

[Rohit]

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I have seen a cable and a box (USB powered only) which used to make drives
of one machine available to the other.
It was available from scan.co.uk - 2 years back.

Rohit

2009/10/6 Alex Schuster <wonko@wonkology.org>

> Hi there!
>
> Not really specific to gentoo, except that I want to do this with a Gentoo
> PC: Is it possible to attach my Gentoo PC 'G' to another PC 'W' (running
> Windows) via USB, so that G appears to be a removable media to W? I think
> you need special USB cables with some electronics in the middlle for that,
> and I saw such a solution for Windows. Does anybody know if this is
> possible
> with Linux?
> There is a usbnet driver for Linux, but this is not what I want.
>
> Thanks,
>        Wonko
>
>


-- 
Quality photos for personal and commercial use : Visit
http://anglianphotos.com

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Re: [gentoo-user] OT: PC as USB client

[Alex Schuster]

Rohit writes:

> I have seen a cable and a box (USB powered only) which used to make
> drives of one machine available to the other.
> It was available from scan.co.uk - 2 years back.

I didn't find it there, but now that I looked for such a thing I think I 
found a similar one. Thanks! Linux is not being mentioned, but at least it 
says there are no drivers needed. I wonder how it would be possible that two 
system use the system at the same time.
As the cable is cheap, I think I'll just get one and try it.

	Wono

Re: [gentoo-user] OT: PC as USB client

[Stroller]

On 7 Oct 2009, at 18:38, Alex Schuster wrote:

> Rohit writes:
>
>> I have seen a cable and a box (USB powered only) which used to make
>> drives of one machine available to the other.
>> It was available from scan.co.uk - 2 years back.
>
> I didn't find it there, but now that I looked for such a thing I  
> think I
> found a similar one. Thanks! Linux is not being mentioned, but at  
> least it
> says there are no drivers needed. I wonder how it would be possible  
> that two
> system use the system at the same time.
> As the cable is cheap, I think I'll just get one and try it.

Do you have a link for this, please?

I'm very unclear how this could be achieved without drivers.

The Linux-based Openmoko Freerunner mobile phone can use its USB port  
as either mass-storage or networking (appearing to the host as a USB  
ethernet adaptor) but I believe this is facilitated by the hardware,  
and different kernel modules need to be loaded for each function.

Stroller.
  

Re: [gentoo-user] OT: PC as USB client

[Alex Schuster]

Stroller writes:

> On 7 Oct 2009, at 18:38, Alex Schuster wrote:
> > Rohit writes:
> >> I have seen a cable and a box (USB powered only) which used to make
> >> drives of one machine available to the other.
> >> It was available from scan.co.uk - 2 years back.
> >
> > I didn't find it there, but now that I looked for such a thing I
> > think I found a similar one. Thanks! Linux is not being mentioned, but
> > at least it says there are no drivers needed. I wonder how it would be
> > possible that two system use the system at the same time.
> > As the cable is cheap, I think I'll just get one and try it.
>
> Do you have a link for this, please?

Only in German:
http://www.pearl.de/a-PE187-1414.shtml?query=USB data link

It says there is no driver or software installation necessary. When 
connected, a data transfer program will open automatically. Does this mean 
there is some program that is executed automatically when connecting, or is 
this just the usual Windows feature that opens a new drive and shows its 
contents?

> I'm very unclear how this could be achieved without drivers.

Me too, after some thinking I believe this will not be what I need. How 
would the cable know the location where to store data it receives from the 
other client?

	Wonko

Re: [gentoo-user] OT: PC as USB client

[Paul Hartman]

On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 4:08 PM, Alex Schuster <wonko@wonkology.org> wrote:
> Stroller writes:
>
>> On 7 Oct 2009, at 18:38, Alex Schuster wrote:
>> > Rohit writes:
>> >> I have seen a cable and a box (USB powered only) which used to make
>> >> drives of one machine available to the other.
>> >> It was available from scan.co.uk - 2 years back.
>> >
>> > I didn't find it there, but now that I looked for such a thing I
>> > think I found a similar one. Thanks! Linux is not being mentioned, but
>> > at least it says there are no drivers needed. I wonder how it would be
>> > possible that two system use the system at the same time.
>> > As the cable is cheap, I think I'll just get one and try it.
>>
>> Do you have a link for this, please?
>
> Only in German:
> http://www.pearl.de/a-PE187-1414.shtml?query=USB data link
>
> It says there is no driver or software installation necessary. When
> connected, a data transfer program will open automatically. Does this mean
> there is some program that is executed automatically when connecting, or is
> this just the usual Windows feature that opens a new drive and shows its
> contents?
>
>> I'm very unclear how this could be achieved without drivers.
>
> Me too, after some thinking I believe this will not be what I need. How
> would the cable know the location where to store data it receives from the
> other client?

AFAIK it is impossible to have something like this driver-free. Maybe
it uses already-included drivers, maybe it uses windows autorun to
install drivers/rootkit automatically. :)

Re: [gentoo-user] OT: PC as USB client

[Stroller]

On 7 Oct 2009, at 22:08, Alex Schuster wrote:

> Stroller writes:
>
>> On 7 Oct 2009, at 18:38, Alex Schuster wrote:
>>> Rohit writes:
>>>> I have seen a cable and a box (USB powered only) which used to make
>>>> drives of one machine available to the other.
>>>> It was available from scan.co.uk - 2 years back.
>>>
>>> I didn't find it there, but now that I looked for such a thing I
>>> think I found a similar one. Thanks! Linux is not being mentioned,  
>>> but
>>> at least it says there are no drivers needed. I wonder how it  
>>> would be
>>> possible that two system use the system at the same time.
>>> As the cable is cheap, I think I'll just get one and try it.
>>
>> Do you have a link for this, please?
>
> Only in German:
> http://www.pearl.de/a-PE187-1414.shtml?query=USB data link
>
> It says there is no driver or software installation necessary. When
> connected, a data transfer program will open automatically. Does  
> this mean
> there is some program that is executed automatically when  
> connecting, or is
> this just the usual Windows feature that opens a new drive and shows  
> its
> contents?
>
>> I'm very unclear how this could be achieved without drivers.
>
> Me too, after some thinking I believe this will not be what I need.  
> How
> would the cable know the location where to store data it receives  
> from the
> other client?

I'm not able to answer any of your questions, but I've seen similar  
products advertised before which were clearly 2 USB network adaptors -  
like this <http://ledshoppe.com/Product/com/CA3005.htm> - in a single  
cable. In fact, looking up that example I found the same store  
explicitly selling exactly as I describe: <http://ledshoppe.com/Product/com/CA3004.htm 
 >.

In this case the "no drivers needed" would suggest to me that the  
drivers are installed by default under XP.

Stroller.

Re: [gentoo-user] OT: PC as USB client

[Paul Hartman]

On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 5:00 PM, Stroller <stroller@stellar.eclipse.co.uk> wrote:
>
> On 7 Oct 2009, at 22:08, Alex Schuster wrote:
>
>> Stroller writes:
>>
>>> On 7 Oct 2009, at 18:38, Alex Schuster wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Rohit writes:
>>>>>
>>>>> I have seen a cable and a box (USB powered only) which used to make
>>>>> drives of one machine available to the other.
>>>>> It was available from scan.co.uk - 2 years back.
>>>>
>>>> I didn't find it there, but now that I looked for such a thing I
>>>> think I found a similar one. Thanks! Linux is not being mentioned, but
>>>> at least it says there are no drivers needed. I wonder how it would be
>>>> possible that two system use the system at the same time.
>>>> As the cable is cheap, I think I'll just get one and try it.
>>>
>>> Do you have a link for this, please?
>>
>> Only in German:
>> http://www.pearl.de/a-PE187-1414.shtml?query=USB data link
>>
>> It says there is no driver or software installation necessary. When
>> connected, a data transfer program will open automatically. Does this mean
>> there is some program that is executed automatically when connecting, or
>> is
>> this just the usual Windows feature that opens a new drive and shows its
>> contents?
>>
>>> I'm very unclear how this could be achieved without drivers.
>>
>> Me too, after some thinking I believe this will not be what I need. How
>> would the cable know the location where to store data it receives from the
>> other client?
>
> I'm not able to answer any of your questions, but I've seen similar products
> advertised before which were clearly 2 USB network adaptors - like this
> <http://ledshoppe.com/Product/com/CA3005.htm> - in a single cable. In fact,
> looking up that example I found the same store explicitly selling exactly as
> I describe: <http://ledshoppe.com/Product/com/CA3004.htm>.
>
> In this case the "no drivers needed" would suggest to me that the drivers
> are installed by default under XP.

And also "no drivers needed" does not mean "no software needed" :)

I googled around and seems most common with these cables is a program
called PC-Linq. This page has a link to download (maybe it works in
WINE?) and a screenshot:

http://www.georgedillon.com/freeware/pclinq.shtml

Re: [gentoo-user] OT: PC as USB client

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Wed, 7 Oct 2009 23:08:08 +0200, Alex Schuster wrote:

> It says there is no driver or software installation necessary. When 
> connected, a data transfer program will open automatically. Does this
> mean there is some program that is executed automatically when
> connecting, or is this just the usual Windows feature that opens a new
> drive and shows its contents?

It sounds like there's a mass storage device in the hardware with a
program that autoruns. So it's true that no software installation is
needed, but you still need Windows. This is an increasing common approach
with USB hardware for Windows - 3G modems, the Flip video camera - as it
means you can use the hardware even if you don't have administrator
privileges.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

The thrill of victory, the agony of delete.

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Re: [gentoo-user] OT: PC as USB client

[daid kahl]

> Not really specific to gentoo, except that I want to do this with a Gentoo
> PC: Is it possible to attach my Gentoo PC 'G' to another PC 'W' (running
> Windows) via USB, so that G appears to be a removable media to W? I think
> you need special USB cables with some electronics in the middlle for that,
> and I saw such a solution for Windows. Does anybody know if this is possible
> with Linux?

Did you consider something like an ethernet cable and using samba?  I
haven't used my Linux drive specifically in another Windows machine,
but samba works fine for using our network scanner (and I can browse
the relevant filesystems setup in Samba).

~daid

Re: [gentoo-user] OT: PC as USB client

[Alex Schuster]

daid kahl wrote:

> > Not really specific to gentoo, except that I want to do this with a
> > Gentoo PC: Is it possible to attach my Gentoo PC 'G' to another PC 'W'
> > (running Windows) via USB, so that G appears to be a removable media to
> > W? I think you need special USB cables with some electronics in the
> > middlle for that, and I saw such a solution for Windows. Does anybody
> > know if this is possible with Linux?
> 
> Did you consider something like an ethernet cable and using samba?  I
> haven't used my Linux drive specifically in another Windows machine,
> but samba works fine for using our network scanner (and I can browse
> the relevant filesystems setup in Samba).

The problem with this is that the PC is a closed system used for medical 
ultrasound acquisitions, and I do not have access to it. So I cannot 
configure any shares, and have to use what is already configured. The 
software allows export of data to an USB stick, but I would like to avoid 
having to move the stick around to the Linux PC afterwards.

	Wonko

Re: [gentoo-user] OT: PC as USB client

[Stroller]

On 16 Oct 2009, at 12:58, Alex Schuster wrote:
> daid kahl wrote:
>
>>> Not really specific to gentoo, except that I want to do this with a
>>> Gentoo PC: Is it possible to attach my Gentoo PC 'G' to another PC  
>>> 'W'
>>> (running Windows) via USB, so that G appears to be a removable  
>>> media to
>>> W? I think you need special USB cables with some electronics in the
>>> middlle for that, and I saw such a solution for Windows. Does  
>>> anybody
>>> know if this is possible with Linux?
>>
>> Did you consider something like an ethernet cable and using samba?  I
>> haven't used my Linux drive specifically in another Windows machine,
>> but samba works fine for using our network scanner (and I can browse
>> the relevant filesystems setup in Samba).
>
> The problem with this is that the PC is a closed system used for  
> medical
> ultrasound acquisitions, and I do not have access to it. So I cannot
> configure any shares, and have to use what is already configured. The
> software allows export of data to an USB stick, but I would like to  
> avoid
> having to move the stick around to the Linux PC afterwards.

The hack that springs to mind is to see if you can pick up an Openmoko  
Freerunner with a broken screen. I'd guess you might be able to pick  
one up for as little as $50 or so. It needs no SIM - you just connect  
it to your office wifi instead, configure it to act as a mass storage  
device and share the appropriate directory by Samba or NFS or whatever.

http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Using_the_Neo_as_an_USB_Mass_storage_device

Configuring the device to boot up and automagically load the mass  
storage device kernel module - instead of the USB networking one,  
which is default - could be a bit tricky with a broken screen. But I  
doubt if you want to spend $200 on this, and I think that's about the  
going rate on a brand new Freerunner. I guess if you could buy one  
that the seller has proven working via ssh to USB - which is really  
standard on this device, it defaults to 192.168.0.202 - then you could  
get it to connect to your wifi and bind sshd to that interface, also.  
Once you know that's good and reliable, remove the USB interface from  
the sshd configuration, stop it from loading the USB ethernet module  
at boot and have it load the mass storage device module instead.

I do feel this is kinda a clumsy suggestion, to use a relatively  
expensive mobile phone - and such little of its functionality - for  
such an ostensibly-simple task. There must be other Linux-based  
devices which will pretend to be mass storage devices, and I wouldn't  
be at all surprised if some of them were quite cheap and readily  
available. But I have no idea what they might be.

Stroller.

Re: [gentoo-user] OT: PC as USB client

[Alex Schuster]

Stroller has a cool idea:

> On 16 Oct 2009, at 12:58, Alex Schuster wrote:

[I want a Linux PC to act as USB mass storage device]

> The hack that springs to mind is to see if you can pick up an Openmoko
> Freerunner with a broken screen. I'd guess you might be able to pick
> one up for as little as $50 or so. It needs no SIM - you just connect
> it to your office wifi instead, configure it to act as a mass storage
> device and share the appropriate directory by Samba or NFS or whatever.
> 
> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Using_the_Neo_as_an_USB_Mass_storage_device

Hey, this is a great idea! I'd never have thought about this.

> Configuring the device to boot up and automagically load the mass
> storage device kernel module - instead of the USB networking one,
> which is default - could be a bit tricky with a broken screen. But I
> doubt if you want to spend $200 on this, and I think that's about the
> going rate on a brand new Freerunner. 

Well, even $200 might be okay. I need this for a commercial project anyway, 
and I guess the customer would be happy not to have to move around USB 
sticks.

But even better, I guess already have such a thing! My girl-friend got one a 
year ago, but was not happy with it. I just uses too much energy, has to be 
recharged every day. And there is some bug, when the battery is completely 
dead, it cannot be recharged - the moko needs another battery to start, then 
it can be exchanged with the dead one and recharged.
Maybe there is s newer software, she hasn't looked for that for a while. And 
I thought the project is about dead anyway, but that may also be completely 
wrong. Anyway, the device would be already here, so I can play around with 
it.


> I do feel this is kinda a clumsy suggestion, to use a relatively
> expensive mobile phone - and such little of its functionality - for
> such an ostensibly-simple task.

Clumsy, but also geeky :)  I like it.

> There must be other Linux-based
> devices which will pretend to be mass storage devices, and I wouldn't
> be at all surprised if some of them were quite cheap and readily
> available. But I have no idea what they might be.

There are many Linux-based handhelds or MP3 players, but I did not find such 
thing as a PCI card with USB peripheral hardware. At least now I know that 
an normal PC just cannot be a peripheral, its USB controller can work in 
host mode only.

Thanks again!

	Wonko

Re: [gentoo-user] OT: Openmoko Freerunner as USB client

[Stroller]

On 18 Oct 2009, at 00:09, Alex Schuster wrote:
>> ...
>> The hack that springs to mind is to see if you can pick up an  
>> Openmoko
>> Freerunner with a broken screen. I'd guess you might be able to pick
>> one up for as little as $50 or so. It needs no SIM - you just connect
>> it to your office wifi instead, configure it to act as a mass storage
>> device and share the appropriate directory by Samba or NFS or  
>> whatever.
> ...
> Well, even $200 might be okay. I need this for a commercial project  
> anyway,
> and I guess the customer would be happy not to have to move around USB
> sticks.

Honestly, I'm a little staggered the supplier of the ultrasound PC  
doesn't offer a network share. I mean, you can lock things down and  
still offer a network share; if USB memory sticks are permitted then  
there is room to accommodate this.

> But even better, I guess already have such a thing! My girl-friend  
> got one a
> year ago, but was not happy with it. I just uses too much energy,  
> has to be
> recharged every day. And there is some bug, when the battery is  
> completely
> dead, it cannot be recharged - the moko needs another battery to  
> start, then
> it can be exchanged with the dead one and recharged.

I believe that it was discovered you can start off USB power if you  
hold down the AUX button at the same time as the main power. I believe  
this works for 99% of Freerunners, so you remove the battery and test  
switching it on this way, connected to USB. If it works you don't need  
to worry about carrying a spare battery.

> Maybe there is s newer software, she hasn't looked for that for a  
> while. And
> I thought the project is about dead anyway, but that may also be  
> completely
> wrong. Anyway, the device would be already here, so I can play  
> around with
> it.

The SHR software seems to be pretty good, I get the impression that it  
has made vast improvements over the last year. I have to admit I  
really haven't used mine much, either, but this is for unrelated  
reasons of disorganisation and laziness.

I would say that, yes, hardware development seems to be pretty much  
dead (although they are still manufacturing the units new), but  
actually the community and software projects are really active. I  
tried the SHR unstable (it's more stable than the stable) and it seems  
pretty useable. I think it'll maybe be great if it continues to  
improve at this rate.

I think what has really killed Openmoko is the inability to get hold  
of 3G chips in the low quantities and licensing terms they required.  
Lack of camera and 3G were the biggest source of "this is lame, i was  
really interested but lacking these i'm not buying a freerunner"  
whinges on the mailing list. I think now, a year or so later, and  
looking to the future this looks really dated. I gather Openmoko have  
pretty dropped development of phones, although this WikiReder was  
announced last week, and apparently something else is in the pipeline.

I would be quite interested if the SHR platform was ported to run on  
Android hardware - I don't see anything else with the Freerunner's  
screen resolution, but aside from that all the Android phones have 3G,  
cameras (not that I care about that) and a decent form-factor. I  
prefer the notion of being able to code in whatever language I want,  
even though I'm (realistically speaking) unlikely to get my ass in  
gear and actually do any, rather than being tied down to some whacky  
Java-esque environment. I started tinkering with my Freerunner again  
recently, installed SHR unstable, and it was really nice being able to  
install from an OSS repository using the command-line.

Stroller.

Re: [gentoo-user] OT: Openmoko Freerunner as USB client

[daid kahl]

> I think what has really killed Openmoko is the inability to get hold of 3G
> chips in the low quantities and licensing terms they required. Lack of
> camera and 3G were the biggest source of "this is lame, i was really
> interested but lacking these i'm not buying a freerunner" whinges on the
> mailing list. I think now, a year or so later, and looking to the future
> this looks really dated. I gather Openmoko have pretty dropped development
> of phones, although this WikiReder was announced last week, and apparently
> something else is in the pipeline.

I agree.  I don't really care about the camera, but I moved to Japan
recently.  I'm not sure if the 3G itself is required, but the likely
carriers (SoftBank, for example) would charge exorbitant rates per
month because Apple isn't paying them off...

But I really really wanted a Freerunner.  I still dream of getting one
and not getting a service plan..just using it as like a PDA with wifi.
 Any thoughts on this?  There are other PDAs with wifi and such (a
friend was trying to sell me an old Palm with wifi a few months ago),
but I really want it to run Linux.

So I got a free (crappy) used phone from a friend.

But I really want SSH on my phone...grrr.  Laziness for the win!

~daid

Re: [gentoo-user] OT: Openmoko Freerunner as USB client

[Stroller]

On 18 Oct 2009, at 10:42, daid kahl wrote:

>> I think what has really killed Openmoko is the inability to get  
>> hold of 3G
>> chips in the low quantities and licensing terms they required. Lack  
>> of
>> camera and 3G were the biggest source of "this is lame, i was really
>> interested but lacking these i'm not buying a freerunner" whinges  
>> on the
>> mailing list. I think now, a year or so later, and looking to the  
>> future
>> this looks really dated. I gather Openmoko have pretty dropped  
>> development
>> of phones, although this WikiReder was announced last week, and  
>> apparently
>> something else is in the pipeline.
>
> I agree.  I don't really care about the camera, but I moved to Japan
> recently.  I'm not sure if the 3G itself is required, but the likely
> carriers (SoftBank, for example) would charge exorbitant rates per
> month because Apple isn't paying them off...

Uh, I'm kinda surprised by that. I mean, here in the UK it costs about  
$15 to add a free unlimited data plan to your standard mobile traiff.  
And smartphones are really popular in Japan. I don't know what you  
mean by "because Apple isn't paying them off".

> But I really really wanted a Freerunner.  I still dream of getting one
> and not getting a service plan..just using it as like a PDA with wifi.
> Any thoughts on this?  There are other PDAs with wifi and such (a
> friend was trying to sell me an old Palm with wifi a few months ago),
> but I really want it to run Linux. ...
> But I really want SSH on my phone...grrr.  Laziness for the win!

Well, this seems kinda contradictory. Either you want just a Linux PDA  
without phone functionality, or you want ssh on your phone. Seems to  
me like you do indeed want a single device.


SSH on the Freerunner is really pretty nice. I haven't used mine much,  
but it almost seems like the Freerunner's best or "killer" feature.  
The Freerunner has a particularly high-resolution screen, so that you  
can fit a lot in the terminal, and even tiny fonts display fine. I'm  
not completely convinced about the on-screen keyboard, but like I say  
I haven't used it much.


Downsides of the Freerunner:

- it's a bit large, it was described as a "brick" by a 20-something  
female I know. I wouldn't want to have to carry it _and_ a separate PDA.

- may need some hardware fixes, which require surface-mount soldering  
skills. There are people offering these fixes, but it could cost you  
some $. I'm not sure on the status if you were to buy a new one today.  
Keywords: buzz-fix, #1024 (the latter is supposed to significantly  
improve battery life in suspend).

- just a lack of slickness, really. I mean, I don't like the iPhone's  
closed ecosystem, they're apples and oranges, but the iPhone blows the  
Freerunner out of the water. Have you tried the email setup on an  
iPhone? It's just slick and it works, you can set it up in 2 minutes,  
and your new mail is there. End of story. I hate the iPhone Store and  
this whole thing of $3 apps, but I'll bet you could get a decent SSH  
app for the iPhone for not much money. Install Pidgin on the  
Freerunner and it just looks like a typical X-windows application from  
the Linux desktop; it's not really very inspiring.


There was a video on the BBC website the other day which showed the  
interfaces of the Palm Pre and an Android phone. I think they're both  
worth considering, particularly Android-based models.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/technology/2009/10/palm_pre_and_o2_a_marriage_of.html

 From what I'm seeing of the Freerunner's user space applications,  
it's at least a couple of years behind these, just a lot slower and  
less responsive. Yet both the Palm Pre and Android phones are based on  
Linux, so that you may be able to find one that's easily unlocked and  
which you can install whatever environment you want (e.g. Google's  
developer edition of the Android G1). You might well stick with the  
original firmware for the moment, but because these ship with Linux  
they give a decent opportunity to developers who want to develop a  
Linux / 3rd-party / X-windows based user space, and that might be  
really good in a couple of years.

I'm probably not the best person to write about mobile phones, because  
I get really excited about the tech, and then when I get a new mobile  
phone I tend to find it too fiddly to actually use. Maybe an iPhone  
would actually be ideal for me. I think there are lots of other  
alternatives to Openmoko, and most of those you can get from your  
mobile phone provider for an extra £10 or £15 a month, spread over an  
18-month contract so you basically don't notice the cost.


If I was in the USA, I think the Kindle looks like a killer device.  
You can get a refurbished one from Amazon for $175 and the built-in  
web-browser works with a web-based SSH GUI (see xkcd's kindle 2 blog  
post). It's been hacked enough to get a shell prompt on it, and that  
opens the way for a native SSH app and PDF readers &c. I think ideally  
you wouldn't just install a completely new Linux distro on it, because  
the Kindle's dictionary and stuff look quite slick, but I think  
there's the potential to install an alternative "main menu" so that  
you could download books from Google's book service and from project  
Gutenburg.

Stroller.