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Sun, 16 Apr 2023 08:29:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.8.8.5] ([107.179.20.172]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r9-20020a4a3709000000b00541fbbbcd31sm3817301oor.5.2023.04.16.08.29.26 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 16 Apr 2023 08:29:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Finally got a SSD drive to put my OS on To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org References: <3a8a143d-38f0-b7ea-4aa1-10c0b3a2a1e0@gmail.com> <12194979.O9o76ZdvQC@wstn> <19959f07-88a8-f2ee-1523-573f794c9282@iinet.net.au> From: Dale Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=rdalek1967@gmail.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBGFSciYBEADcEGMyJBSuavKO/XKUVvgkxck7Nl8Iuu8N2lcnRji/rSKg5c1Acix1ll9i oW8JBCHwvn0+Xy60BvEsqcup3YSHw5STl/bR1ePEehtnYrg8FdjdS91+B805RfnKMm69rFVI wLSBHQrSG1yxHd8CloWoEdhmVtP24buajbh114bgXd9ahtpZrCVMrWdWYUg2mEXguGV5uNAh Rf8SWxDNc79w24JxsV34a8niMUYMjzWr0rafIbzk732X38vGjVMLo/2mMpkbp9mPp++LHoY+ 0Pet8zxxdXPJSCd475kza1AD+hhSyBZXB9yknYWgyY3cZe1rGmooJSi2KX4QxO7npwLThcO1 be6KKRkd35+Fi/a1BzVOHsZMiK/gcwxEFoMd27gir4ehaeHJfFXl+65w4hj0EsOZSxrJrm2C R50g5By2czSKP1bADEygFNpIJj51AR+wM88NImG2RPtlT2maYBzazvF05g65cdHXGp1C7W5P wwwKU2DgABB2t7N7z5A69LnryBRw4zUYDRRYLTYlBlYgg+xILm2c0OrBdxJgLJa7JE50Eo25 d3PFwt9J0gYvqy6sPFLl9So0sDg9zm0hKQtXOP5kgropUFGrNoJI+mjwF4rYLRBVzZwNAvlO OhEvHubBo3mEllv4x+FeptwXZxlk7gUsdqI8AxnFB8K9wi6FVQARAQABtBtEYWxlIDxyZGFs ZWsxOTY3QGdtYWlsLmNvbT6JAk4EEwEIADgCGyMFCwkIBwIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AW IQQSG1h01ruv/WNXc3Q3RqOgiQH1GwUCYVJy8gAKCRA3RqOgiQH1G+waEACeTZCt77jnRAmQ AV7otKuZekDWiLi3Eig8tj5ZJiCNSYA/hIxzmexRP0GMqjitcXK1iGwWcvMzzvIq30GAjIfB 4BR38cnXbtBa6fNewiT7QaZe/Hn6yBRldXNQypzbHy+/o27bUEy+oX4rE7etUgEHQAjuw7xz XFWg4tH1/KJvsOVY5upnWc5LdxYhsuQ3dQD4b22GsK0pOBDfb9PiirYM8eGKvrVuq4E/c75z lDDFhINl18lNZ9D0ZFL3IkTjHsAAqFH9uhnnEB8CWdHbBewPEfRaOhBUYWZ3Q8uTkmDgZT8q D9jlvLEdw7Nh2ApdxoepnI/4D+ql2Gr4DtH7SEPydr5gcf1Qr/2bXRb1hAYnIVcbncs/Bm3Z bkRKPVWMfE3Fusa+p5hMzixk0YysMaTHlc7mYRYAEZGnPMXnmcCbetwARU7A0yz1M1kCMOAQ Lsz8KH5kv3cRenMB6SFfjND2JfAK61H5TtnPq3L8noS2ZykRYxq9Nm3X64O1tJojIKBoZFr8 AwYNCvqC6puUyGMuzHPh7jPof8glfrrEKIYUvNPGMDoVX3IGetxh/9l6NcxgFA4JGoR+LS3C zmeNrwlllAe3OEUfKoWVQ+pagpSdM+8hHolaSda4Ys66Z3fCR4ZvcTqfhTAVskpqdXa4isAk 7vTcXu3L499ttywEp7rJTbkCDQRhUnImARAAncUdVhmtRr59zqpTUppKroQYlzR0jv8oa7DG K4gakTAT2N7evnI9wpssmzyVk8VEiLzhnFQ/Ol3FRt6hZCXDJt0clyHOyTfvz/MNFttWuZTc mLpSvmRR6VRjAH+Tz3Eam2xUw3PGuH97BcXQ3NnX3msv1UDxtxxBu6e2YrdeOhrCUSgzokcJ 98ChUNy934cgepPybAI12lSWqVFQ1aG7jExZfiUk+333fPSDbpKoZbTW5YJLXbycmW/C1IWL qYQyNjRWKaGoJtUWFhhmNiOQct7n90aKivNVPavmN+UQ9LlMaINtf9T6XCzLfogCFsulDCDJ 0yNQLDTurHaB4E71xoctgXmLLq9z1RQ0W2XiVAAOZQj6K3+d0AOUjDhCQ2QW8dUSq0ckkZXV DKVJOGS8Nhf2eIWIqRnP3AcUiiaiFGqUaVUmUAZ6h/oJmgghEu/1S+pcuUKU5i69+XCZ3hH2 Jzwzbf7K+FAIkOhCfHncF8i1N1pk00pOVykNnqHTfFo3qFusHt0ZWgXVnnn4pYdXqZNoDhvF BRE5Vm4k/k96Pw8HRx6Os6eFSRrlqGzRgqsu86FekxusXB9UGv4lJhtU/J+8MRWsh22K718s DbQnABicGKFz1qQlWvcf59oTByhLINJCBt1WXl+TzJDXepr3QSkqmK41dO9Hob97C9dMiK8A EQEAAYkCNgQYAQgAIAIbDBYhBBIbWHTWu6/9Y1dzdDdGo6CJAfUbBQJhUnLyAAoJEDdGo6CJ AfUbVHIQAKSWw620vPhR3A/njU2z77F3z/Jk+HTKdE3fIyWSWdkYN7CBFL0NguOMP30WZ+qE sJhZu7T5hf251MwQUUt27xlfnKYOmQs7CqONlXuXlGZI6WufrUjxNcVz+5gJsqvUWuuJWsgg sDmE92IBnfG/f81fPHWQyfr/SF4wYDMyoFp5xCCQpp1zB63iuFvvrhxBkEHzmbRtVDOhl0Xp BVEDR1w3QRACw9QJD/KM05Czv9JNQYlwinWO/OaQ9cMlUpKLgswUPg9IZ5vucxScfuAUA5uC B1jlAQ8ZPlVukBmbEv5RGOv+lpuEbA3YDMVtEeH4YMFbjt/+vH3Cr2vTbp5JlpByLburJEH0 WXZLUawEfUsZvVwpOuJK75vaa2HYXee+Cb3iCIzwfIfctdlqzUcbGRczlRNM59hpvj4z29Gh 3kAxVHItAYq54ikxQ9l4hQ8s9sLYPbX/WtcBxNX8crBSw0FLnmzGleVEtBHyqtt5CLzQNgrj GYWl1vKDUmRPw1CdZ1c+fMN9CY11jOM5B5ZnqZWfDeVYO2iJ5SuvTycChexCb8WYn1bdCBIo bBtga2RBXbVt4Mh9E4owsszefn51MwfjXxB20Fc5k3GU1AVpTCMs3ayYCzo0b2pvEvdjtDcA CYLEFPWgaFX9iQAM/CDfKvTtvgGWpqtCL2raq/mQoJEU Cc: Mark Knecht Message-ID: <9fbad854-2f36-f261-b2f3-4850059f6d2a@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2023 10:29:25 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/91.0 SeaMonkey/2.53.15 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------BF198E2D8C5D6661B2CB5B96" X-Archives-Salt: 2e0aab85-7a18-4ddb-ade8-b2271b17c88a X-Archives-Hash: c3308422fc7c321e32f21b7a09f69415 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------BF198E2D8C5D6661B2CB5B96 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Mark Knecht wrote: > > > On Sun, Apr 16, 2023 at 1:44 AM William Kenworthy > wrote: > > > > > > On 16/4/23 15:18, Peter Humphrey wrote: > > > On Sunday, 16 April 2023 02:47:00 BST William Kenworthy wrote: > > > > > >> look into mount options for SSD's (discard option) and "fstrim" for > > >> maintenance. (read up on trimmimg - doing a manual trim before > the drive > > >> reaches full allocation (they delete files, but do not erase them > > >> because erasing is time consuming so its an OS controlled > operation) or > > >> auto trimming (which can cause serious pauses at awkward times) can > > >> prevent serious performance degradation as it has to erase before > > >> writing.  I am not sure of the current status but in the early > days of > > >> SSD's, this was serious concern. > > > In short, see https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/SSD .  :) > > > > > Excellent, condenses it nicely. > > > > BillK > > > > > > OK Dale, I'm completely wrong, but also 'slightly' right. > > If you have an SSD or nvme drive installed then fstrim should be  > installed and run on a regular basis. However it's not 'required'. > > Your system will still work, but after all blocks on the drive have > been used for file storage and later deleted, if they are not > written back to zeros then the next time you go to use that > block the write will be slower as the write must first write > zeros and then your data. > > fstrim does the write to zeros so that during normal operation > you don't wait. > > I've become so completely used to Kubuntu that I had to read > that this is all set up automatically when the system finds an > SSD or nvme. In Gentoo land you have to do this yourself. > > Sorry for any confusion. Time to unsubscribe from this list > I guess and leave you all to your beloved distro. > > Bye, > Mark Oh, please, don't go anywhere.    We already lost the long term Alan.  BTW, I checked on him a while back.  He's still OK.  It's been a while tho.  I read during a google search that some distros handle this sort of thing automatically, some sort of firmware thing or something.  I figured Gentoo didn't, it rarely does since that is the point of Gentoo.  So, no harm.  Heck, I just now applied power to the thing.  I don't even have it partitioned or anything yet.  Just rebooted after rearranging all the cables, adding power splitter etc etc. I do have one gripe.  Why can't drive makers pick a screw size and stick to it on ALL drives?  It took some digging to find a screw that would fit.  Some I bought that are supposed to work on SSDs were to short.  It would likely work on a metal adapter but not a thicker plastic one.  Luckily, I found 4 screws.  No clue where they came from.  Just in my junk box.  Before this week, never laid eyes on a SSD before.  Anyone know the thread size and count on those things?  I want to order a few, just in case.  Is running fstrim once a week to often?  I update my OS once a week but given the amount of extra space, I'd think once a month would be often enough.  After all, it is 500GB and I'll likely only use less than half of that.  Most of the extra space will be extra boot options like Knoppix or something.  I'm just thinking it would give it a longer life.  Maybe my thinking is wrong??? Now to play with this thing.  I got to remember what all has to be copied over so I can boot the new thing.  :/  Been ages since I moved a OS to another hard drive.  Maybe a reinstall would work better.  :-\ Thanks to all.  Dale :-)  :-)  P. S.  CCing Mark just in case.  --------------BF198E2D8C5D6661B2CB5B96 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Mark Knecht wrote:


On Sun, Apr 16, 2023 at 1:44 AM William Kenworthy <billk@iinet.net.au> wrote:
>
>
> On 16/4/23 15:18, Peter Humphrey wrote:
> > On Sunday, 16 April 2023 02:47:00 BST William Kenworthy wrote:
> >
> >> look into mount options for SSD's (discard option) and "fstrim" for
> >> maintenance. (read up on trimmimg - doing a manual trim before the drive
> >> reaches full allocation (they delete files, but do not erase them
> >> because erasing is time consuming so its an OS controlled operation) or
> >> auto trimming (which can cause serious pauses at awkward times) can
> >> prevent serious performance degradation as it has to erase before
> >> writing.  I am not sure of the current status but in the early days of
> >> SSD's, this was serious concern.
> > In short, see https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/SSD .  :)
> >
> Excellent, condenses it nicely.
>
> BillK
>
>

OK Dale, I'm completely wrong, but also 'slightly' right.

If you have an SSD or nvme drive installed then fstrim should be 
installed and run on a regular basis. However it's not 'required'.

Your system will still work, but after all blocks on the drive have
been used for file storage and later deleted, if they are not
written back to zeros then the next time you go to use that
block the write will be slower as the write must first write
zeros and then your data.

fstrim does the write to zeros so that during normal operation
you don't wait.

I've become so completely used to Kubuntu that I had to read
that this is all set up automatically when the system finds an
SSD or nvme. In Gentoo land you have to do this yourself.

Sorry for any confusion. Time to unsubscribe from this list
I guess and leave you all to your beloved distro.

Bye,
Mark


Oh, please, don't go anywhere.  <begging>  We already lost the long term Alan.  BTW, I checked on him a while back.  He's still OK.  It's been a while tho. 

I read during a google search that some distros handle this sort of thing automatically, some sort of firmware thing or something.  I figured Gentoo didn't, it rarely does since that is the point of Gentoo.  So, no harm.  Heck, I just now applied power to the thing.  I don't even have it partitioned or anything yet.  Just rebooted after rearranging all the cables, adding power splitter etc etc.

I do have one gripe.  Why can't drive makers pick a screw size and stick to it on ALL drives?  It took some digging to find a screw that would fit.  Some I bought that are supposed to work on SSDs were to short.  It would likely work on a metal adapter but not a thicker plastic one.  Luckily, I found 4 screws.  No clue where they came from.  Just in my junk box.  Before this week, never laid eyes on a SSD before.  Anyone know the thread size and count on those things?  I want to order a few, just in case. 

Is running fstrim once a week to often?  I update my OS once a week but given the amount of extra space, I'd think once a month would be often enough.  After all, it is 500GB and I'll likely only use less than half of that.  Most of the extra space will be extra boot options like Knoppix or something.  I'm just thinking it would give it a longer life.  Maybe my thinking is wrong???

Now to play with this thing.  I got to remember what all has to be copied over so I can boot the new thing.  :/  Been ages since I moved a OS to another hard drive.  Maybe a reinstall would work better.  :-\

Thanks to all. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

P. S.  CCing Mark just in case. 
--------------BF198E2D8C5D6661B2CB5B96--