On 11/16/05, Daniel da Veiga wrote: > > On 11/16/05, Derek Tracy wrote: > > This is a lot longer than I originally intended it to be so if you want > the > > jist of it skip to the end. > > > > (DISCLAIMER: Let me start off by saying that this is truly not a flame > but > > more of a concern. So please do not flame me for stating my > > opinions/concerns.) > > Guess you won't get any flames, just considerable advices, cause we > don't wanna loose a Gentooer :) > > > I have been an avid Gentoo User for 2 and 1/2 years now. I have > installed > > Gentoo on many different platforms including HPPA and Sparc, not too > mention > > the countless x86 installs. I have never had a problem, every install > has > > went smooth. I have done both Stage3 and Stage1 installs (I have always > > preferred a Stage1 install). > > > > Recently, I decided that it was time to reinstall due to the numerous > > packages that I had installed and different DE's / WM configurations, > and I > > must admit that I have recently been diving into LVM2 and encryption (I > > figured that starting from scratch would be my best bet). In the past I > > have always leaned toward ~x86 (I love bleeding edge). But since this > was > > going to be a new install I decided to do the preferred method and set > all > > ~x86 flags via /etc/portage/package.keywords for specific packages. > > I would never even consider completely reinstall a working > environment, specially one that installation and configuration is 90% > of the work you'll ever have dealing with the machine (except maybe > for hardware failures). The biggest reason for the reinstall was because in my contant playing around with DE's and WM's trying to find one that I completely liked. I had KDE, GNOME, E17, FVWM, OpenBOX (I think that is it) all on my system. In all of my toying around I found out a lot about myself, for 1 GUI applications make me work slower and FVWM was and is all I need to make me happy. So I could either unemerge KDE GNOME and the rest (which would surely leave all sorts of unneeded libs and things) or I could reinstall. To me reinstallation sounded a lot easier. Also note that this is the first time that I have had a really hard time getting Gentoo to work. (I will most likely never reinstall on this machine again.) > Now since we have the background we will get to the questions at hand. > > During this install I have run into nothing but problems. I boot from > the > > livecd just fine (if I append nopcmcia and dolvm2) and everything goes > > smooth. NOTE: I am performing this install step by step from the online > > handbook with a slight modification I am using LVM2 for /usr > /usr/portage > > /opt /var /tmp /home (I figured I would take advantage of some setuid > > security procedures). Part way through the online handbook I noticed > that > > they standardized the Stage3 install. I figured that since the > developers > > thought it was best to use a Stage3 install then why not give it a shot. > So > > I installed everything according to the handbook and all went well until > I > > restarted. > > You see, I'm one of those guys that think: "if you got the livecd > working, network, maybe video, sound or anything else with NO DISC, > your system is gentooable". :) of course you may run into problems > accourding to your config and special needs, it always happened to me, > but hey, at least you know what you're doying, not like those easy, > complete, fast and general installations that keeps LOTS of trash > making your system crawl compared to a clean, wise and configurated > environment. > > > After restarting I noticed that ipw2200 did not load properly was posted > in > > my boot mesg WTF. I distinctly remembered during the install that I > waited > > until after I installed the kernel, then I went ahead and installed the > > external modules. (NOTE: I did not use the built in kernel modules for > > ipw2200 or ieee80211 I had read too many horror stories about > incompatible > > versions of ipw2200-firmware and I have always had good luck with the > > external drivers) One other thing, instead of going for pure on the edge > > goodness of using a Nitro-esque kernel (one optimized for speed over > > stability) I decided to use Gentoo-sources again trusting the developers > > judgement. After searching through tons of articles regarding ipw2200 > > drivers not working with the latest "Stable" Gentoo-Sources I decided to > go > > with the kernel drivers and give them a shot. I recompiled rebooted and > low > > and behold the drivers still weren't working. After trying all sorts of > > different combinations Unstable versions of this stable versions of > that. > > Nothing worked, so I proceeded to reboot back into the livecd and > re-chroot > > into my system so I could get a network connection and install the > Madwifi > > Drivers, for a pcmcia card that I have laying around. Also note that the > > Madwifi drivers are considered Unstable. I rebooted the computer and the > > drivers actually worked (Yea Unstable). So I got the network connection > up, > > then I decided to go ahead and install X (I thought that it would be > easier > > to troubleshoot the ipw drivers from a graphical environment copy, > paste, > > multiple xterms.). Well I compiled and installed Xorg and compiled and > > installed nvidia-kernel nvidia-glx, and what do you think happened (btw > I > > copied over a backed up xorg.conf from the last installation so I know > that > > that conf file works and is correct) I went to startx...........It > kicked > > back saying screens were found but no usable configs......So down > > troubleshooting lane I went. I recompiled, verified I did not have > agpgart > > / dri enabled in kernel, then with both in kernel, stable and unstable > > versions of nvidia-kernel / nvidia-glx, everything a no go.. I finally > > settled with using Xorg's nv driver. Now here I am with a really nice > > laptop (Sony S-460) but with no video hardware acceleration, the > inablility > > to use the built in wireless card (NOTE: before the reinstall everything > was > > working). > > > > So now I am waiting for the whole system to recompile using ~x86 (the so > > called "Unstable" packages) and I will see if that works or not. > > I'm a stable user, so, would never do that, can't predict what can go > wrong... That is what I was thinking when I switched to stable..... From what I am seeing either my computer doesn't like stable code or stable does not mean stable anymore. > I am seriously reconsidering finding another OS to use, this whole > headache > > has been totally ridiculous. I could see this if I would have emerged > all > > of the unstable packages to begin with or even perform a Stage1 install > > after the developers decided to make the Stage3 the default. But I > didn't I > > did everything according to the documentation (and I triple checked that > I > > did not skip anything). > > Well, Gentoo is choices, you can even choose not to use it, but it was > always the best choice for everything Linux I've needed so far... OK, > so, I spent a week configuration my last system install, but its > working for about 3 months now, flawless, it was worth the time spent. > At home, it took me a month to completely setup the system, including > Xorg and Desktop Manager, well, nine or so months flawless, my memory > was gone bad, my CD drive broke, and still, my system OS is up-to-date > and running. Never got nothing like this with any OS I've tried. > > > So with all of this said if the developers do not start testing > everything a > > little more thoroughly then I predict there will be a serious drop in > the > > number of Gentoo Followers out there. Especially if a Gentoo Veteren has > > this hard of a time installing the operating system that I love. > > I can sincerely disagree with you. And that's why I have spread the > word and made a lot of friends start working with gentoo, most of them > liked it and are spreading the word. Of course, installing gentoo is a > time consuming task, configuring it is even more time consuming, but > hey, that's a small price to pay for complete control over your > system. > > > When a branch is marked stable all of the packages in that branch should > > work, yes there will always be configuration glitches but the problems I > > have had during this install were not from configuration glitches. They > are > > what looks like incompatible packages and numerous other things. If > Gentoo > > is going to continue to grow then we as a community need to speak up > about > > things like this. > > Testing is hard work, I would not blame the Gentoo Team for this, > there are infinite combinations of hardware, software and configs that > may cause different problems, and if you want a working system that is > flawless, fast and reliable, you give up some good stuff from other > OSs, like easy installs, easy hardware replacement, easy > configuration. I would definately agree with you if I was installing things that are out of the ordinary. But I am not it is merely a system install by the handbook (which was written by developers). This is just my 2 cents, many people will disagree, but I won't change > my OS for a long time, Gentoo rocks, and small changes (like stage1 > for stage3 default install) won't harm me that much, I choose installs > depending on hardware and network availability, not just because one > is faster or default. I'm even considering Gentoo compatibility when > buying new hardware for my systems, and advicing my fellows at work to > do the same, if Gentoo runs it, to hell with the rest. > > > -- > > --------------------------------- > > Derek Tracy > > tracyde@gmail.com > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > -- > Daniel da Veiga > Computer Operator - RS - Brazil > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- > Version: 3.1 > GCM/IT/P/O d-? s:- a? C++$ UBLA++ P+ L++ E--- W+++$ N o+ K- w O M- V- > PS PE Y PGP- t+ 5 X+++ R+* tv b+ DI+++ D+ G+ e h+ r+ y++ > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ > > -- > gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list > > -- --------------------------------- Derek Tracy tracyde@gmail.com ---------------------------------