[gentoo-user] amd64/x86

[gentoo-user] amd64/x86

[jarry]

Hi,

I'm going to install Gentoo on Athlon64-based workstation,
but I'm a little confused about hardware profiles and their
compatibility:

If I select now amd64, will I be able later to install and
use x86 software, if there is no amd64 release (for example
precompiled game-binaries, or even some sources which are
only for x86, not amd64)? 

Or do I have to use x86 installation profile?

Jarry

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Re: [gentoo-user] amd64/x86

[Boris Fersing]

2006/2/23, jarry@gmx.net <jarry@gmx.net>:
> Hi,
>
> I'm going to install Gentoo on Athlon64-based workstation,
> but I'm a little confused about hardware profiles and their
> compatibility:
>
> If I select now amd64, will I be able later to install and
> use x86 software, if there is no amd64 release (for example
> precompiled game-binaries, or even some sources which are
> only for x86, not amd64)?
>
> Or do I have to use x86 installation profile?

Hi,

just use the amd64 default profile (the mutilib one), then you'll be
able to run 32bits softwares too !

Regards,

Boris.
>
> Jarry
>
> --
> Telefonieren Sie schon oder sparen Sie noch?
> NEU: GMX Phone_Flat http://www.gmx.net/de/go/telefonie
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>
>


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Re: [gentoo-user] amd64/x86

[daniel]

On Thursday 23 February 2006 07:54, Boris Fersing wrote:
> 2006/2/23, jarry@gmx.net <jarry@gmx.net>:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm going to install Gentoo on Athlon64-based workstation,
> > but I'm a little confused about hardware profiles and their
> > compatibility:
> >
> > If I select now amd64, will I be able later to install and
> > use x86 software, if there is no amd64 release (for example
> > precompiled game-binaries, or even some sources which are
> > only for x86, not amd64)?
> >
> > Or do I have to use x86 installation profile?
>
> Hi,
>
> just use the amd64 default profile (the mutilib one), then you'll be
> able to run 32bits softwares too !

Not entirely true.  When I first got my amd64 box, I did just that and was 
horribly disappointed.  While most things worked, there were a number of 
"show stoppers" so to speak: Konqueror couldn't play flash movies because 
while Konqueror compiled just fine as 64-bit, flash is only available in 
32bit.  If I wanted to see Flash, I had to use a binary version of Firefox.  
Worse though was the fact that none of the win32codecs were available so I 
couldn't watch any wmv, wma or other binary-only formats.

Sadly, if you want to be able to use stuff typically used for the Windows 
world, you have to conform to that world's handicapps, which means making do 
with 32bits for now.

-- 
It is sort of puzzling I think that you can have 100 percent certainty about 
the weapons of mass destruction's existence, and zero certainty about where 
they are.
  - Hans Blix, Chief UN weapons inspector in Iraq
               before the American occupation
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Re: [gentoo-user] amd64/x86

[Boris Fersing]

2006/2/23, daniel <danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca>:
> On Thursday 23 February 2006 07:54, Boris Fersing wrote:
> > 2006/2/23, jarry@gmx.net <jarry@gmx.net>:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I'm going to install Gentoo on Athlon64-based workstation,
> > > but I'm a little confused about hardware profiles and their
> > > compatibility:
> > >
> > > If I select now amd64, will I be able later to install and
> > > use x86 software, if there is no amd64 release (for example
> > > precompiled game-binaries, or even some sources which are
> > > only for x86, not amd64)?
> > >
> > > Or do I have to use x86 installation profile?
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > just use the amd64 default profile (the mutilib one), then you'll be
> > able to run 32bits softwares too !
>
> Not entirely true.  When I first got my amd64 box, I did just that and was
> horribly disappointed.  While most things worked, there were a number of
> "show stoppers" so to speak: Konqueror couldn't play flash movies because
> while Konqueror compiled just fine as 64-bit, flash is only available in
> 32bit.  If I wanted to see Flash, I had to use a binary version of Firefox.
> Worse though was the fact that none of the win32codecs were available so I
> couldn't watch any wmv, wma or other binary-only formats.
>
> Sadly, if you want to be able to use stuff typically used for the Windows
> world, you have to conform to that world's handicapps, which means making do
> with 32bits for now.

What jarry wants is to run precompiled 32bits applications, which
should work with the multilib profile.

But I agree iwth some points, you can't use a 32bits plugin with a
64bits application, that's why I've installed mozilla-firefox-bin,
mplayer-bin ...

regards,

Boris.
>
> --
> It is sort of puzzling I think that you can have 100 percent certainty about
> the weapons of mass destruction's existence, and zero certainty about where
> they are.
>   - Hans Blix, Chief UN weapons inspector in Iraq
>                before the American occupation
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>
>


--
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Re: [gentoo-user] amd64/x86

[Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.]

On Thursday 23 February 2006 11:24, daniel <danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> 
wrote about 'Re: [gentoo-user] amd64/x86':
> On Thursday 23 February 2006 07:54, Boris Fersing wrote:
> > 2006/2/23, jarry@gmx.net <jarry@gmx.net>:
> > > I'm going to install Gentoo on Athlon64-based workstation,
> > > but I'm a little confused about hardware profiles and their
> > > compatibility:
> >
> > just use the amd64 default profile (the mutilib one), then you'll be
> > able to run 32bits softwares too !

E.g. Doom3, a 32-bit binary, works fine on my ~amd64 system.

> Not entirely true.  When I first got my amd64 box, I did just that and
> was horribly disappointed.  While most things worked, there were a
> number of "show stoppers" so to speak: Konqueror couldn't play flash
> movies because while Konqueror compiled just fine as 64-bit, flash is
> only available in 32bit.  If I wanted to see Flash, I had to use a
> binary version of Firefox. Worse though was the fact that none of the
> win32codecs were available so I couldn't watch any wmv, wma or other
> binary-only formats.

Of course, none of these cases is (simply) running a 32-bit binary.  All 
these cases cover having a 64-bit binary load a 32-bit library.  While I 
believe this is technically possible with very disciplined developers and 
some kernel help, it's not supported (or even allowed) currently.  Loading 
a 32-bit library (using dlopen etc.) will fail if you are currently 
running in 64-bit mode.

The solution at the user end is to run 32-bit versions of the software that 
needs to load 32-bit libraries, unfortunately gentoo doesn't make this as 
easy as I'd like [1], but does provide a few methods.  There's 
firefox-bin, which is the offically branded 32-bit version of firefox, 
capable of loading your 32-bit flash player, as well as some flash players 
with source available (and at differing levels of usability).  Mplayer 
also has a relatively new bindist USE flag, which I believe installs the 
32-bit binary for use with w32codecs.

Beyond this, you can also setup a chroot (there's a guide in the gentoo 
wiki), and I believe the gentoo forums has a nsplugin32 ebuild which is 
supposed to allow 64-bit konq to load 32-bit plugins.  You could, of 
course run an entirely 32-bit userland, and gcc will still optimize your 
processor in 32-bit mode (but, some processor features just are not 
available in 32-bit mode).

The solution at the developer end is, when running on a system that 
supports both multiple modes of execution, have separate processes running 
(one in each mode) that communicate via IPC (pipes, shared memory, etc.) 
and are each responsible for loading libraries with a matching mode.  This 
hasn't been traditionally done because the number of installations that 
support multiple execution modes running side-by-side is low.

> Sadly, if you want to be able to use stuff typically used for the
> Windows world, you have to conform to that world's handicapps, which
> means making do with 32bits for now.

I am reminded of an RMS quote:
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master--and if you use the program, he 
is your master."
-- Richard Stallman, in an interview for Federico Binacuzzi
http://www.linuxdevcenter.com/pub/a/linux/2004/12/22/rms_interview.html

For me, I just don't use flash that isn't supported by my 64-bit flash 
player.  I just don't watch wmv movies (h264 data in the maktroska wrapper 
is better anyway).  I just don't use the scanning feature of my 
multi-function printer (supported in sane using a proprietary 32-bit 
library).  It's a cost that I'm willing to bear.

It's also getting me closer to living in the free world. ;)

-- 
Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.
bss03@volumehost.com
ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy

[1] I'd like be be able to 'ARCH="x86" emerge firefox' (or similar) and get 
a 32-bit version (compiled with my CFLAGS etc.) installed in parallel with 
my 64-bit version, without undue hardship.
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Re: [gentoo-user] amd64/x86

[Hemmann, Volker Armin]

On Thursday 23 February 2006 18:24, daniel wrote:
> On Thursday 23 February 2006 07:54, Boris Fersing wrote:
> > 2006/2/23, jarry@gmx.net <jarry@gmx.net>:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I'm going to install Gentoo on Athlon64-based workstation,
> > > but I'm a little confused about hardware profiles and their
> > > compatibility:
> > >
> > > If I select now amd64, will I be able later to install and
> > > use x86 software, if there is no amd64 release (for example
> > > precompiled game-binaries, or even some sources which are
> > > only for x86, not amd64)?
> > >
> > > Or do I have to use x86 installation profile?
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > just use the amd64 default profile (the mutilib one), then you'll be
> > able to run 32bits softwares too !
>
> Not entirely true.  When I first got my amd64 box, I did just that and was
> horribly disappointed.  While most things worked, there were a number of
> "show stoppers" so to speak: Konqueror couldn't play flash movies because
> while Konqueror compiled just fine as 64-bit, flash is only available in
> 32bit.  If I wanted to see Flash, I had to use a binary version of Firefox.
or opera.
So all you have to do is to copy the url and open it in one of the 32bit 
browser, which are working fine.
So your statement is not completly correct. Konqueror does not use 32bit 
plugins, that is true.

> Worse though was the fact that none of the win32codecs were available so I
> couldn't watch any wmv, wma or other binary-only formats.

yes you can. Install mplayer-bin.
I prefer xine, but for the occasional wmv, mplayer-bin is enough.


>
> Sadly, if you want to be able to use stuff typically used for the Windows
> world, you have to conform to that world's handicapps, which means making
> do with 32bits for now.

no, you don't have to. You just have to install two (!!) 32 bit apps. Opera 
for flash, mplayer-bin for win32codecs.
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