From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from lists.gentoo.org ([140.105.134.102] helo=robin.gentoo.org) by nuthatch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1IAmba-0002ux-Vw for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Tue, 17 Jul 2007 12:56:43 +0000 Received: from robin.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l6HCtOHF011897; Tue, 17 Jul 2007 12:55:24 GMT Received: from compaq.stroller.uk.eu.org (213-152-39-90.dsl.eclipse.net.uk [213.152.39.90]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l6HCmKSc002388 for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2007 12:48:21 GMT Received: from [192.168.10.191] (unknown [192.168.1.200]) by compaq.stroller.uk.eu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7A86137812 for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2007 13:48:18 +0100 (BST) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: <871wf7waz6.fsf@newton.gmurray.org.uk> References: <14178ED3A898524FB036966D696494FB138F1B@messenger.cv63.navy.mil> <871wf7waz6.fsf@newton.gmurray.org.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <955A49C7-0E11-45D0-B53D-549B0D43CF4D@stellar.eclipse.co.uk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Stroller Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] 2 to 3?? Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 13:48:18 +0100 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Archives-Salt: b4ba03fd-cd3d-4f2c-b504-c4bb93e71e80 X-Archives-Hash: 4efc0b87e48e7d785ea57e4ccbf2a754 On 17 Jul 2007, at 12:01, Graham Murray wrote: > writes: > >> The four freedoms: >> Freedom 0: The freedom to run a program for any purpose. >> Freedom 1: To study the way a program works, and adapt it to your =20 >> needs. >> Freedom 2: To redistribute copies so that you can help your =20 >> neighbors. >> Freedom 3: Improve the program, and release your improvements to >> the public, so that the whole community benefits. >> For freedom 1 and 3 to work, the code must be open. >> >> Freedom 1 is just as important as the other three. Freedom one is >> almost eliminated in GPLv3. Freedom One is the freedom that was >> most whole heartedly expressed in the original manifesto. > > Just how does GPLv3 almost eliminate this? It prevents vendors from (effectively) placing restrictions within =20 their software and running those restricted programs on the hardware =20 they sell us. Obviously this is a quite unreasonable imposition upon =20 the freedoms of those benign corporate entities. If you don't see how =20= unfair this is then you're clearly a subversive^w commie^w pinko^w =20 freedom-hating terrorist!! Seriously, I can't understand people who disapprove of GPLv3. As =20 things stand with GPL v2 it would be quite easy (in the UK) to buy a =20 nice wireless ADSL modem-router as part of a sign-up package with =20 your ISP, suffer a year's poor service and decide to sign up with =20 another internet provider, only to find the the wireless router is =20 locked to the first ISP and is useless if you leave them. I can't =20 guess the number of wireless routers that have been thrown away and =20 ended up in landfill for this reason. I believe that even Linus - who is noted for his long-standing =20 opposition to v3 - would change his mind were he to experience this. =20 "They're using the operating system _I_ wrote to lock me out of _my =20 own_ router?!?!?!?" In the case I have in mind (the Wanadoo Livebox) the vendor uses =20 proprietary software code - which is only shipped as a binary as part =20= of the firmware - to deny use on other networks. A user can enter any =20= PPPoA username in the router's web-based interface but the pppd will =20 just refuse to work if that username doesn't match the naming =20 conventions used on Wanadoo's networks. Although this particular code is not GPL, and would not come under =20 the provisions of the v3, the manufacturers have made a number of =20 other restrictions to prevent users modifying any part the firmware, =20 including the remaining 98% of the router's software that is OSS code =20= (the router runs a Linux 2.4 kernel and busybox). I remember working =20 on opening up this firmware a little and each time one of the =20 restrictions was overcome we would find the next version of the =20 firmware to be more secure (the new firmware is upgraded =20 automatically to unmodified routers). At the time this particular router was released it was, IIRC, =A380 to =20= purchase - about the same as other branded wireless ADSL routers, and =20= perhaps a day-and-a-half's wages for some people, a good chunk of =20 your weekly disposable income if you're on minimum wage. It was not =20 obvious in the sales pitch that it was network-locked to Wanadoo. =20 British Telecom lock their routers similarly. A big FUCK YOU to =20 anyone who thinks they should benefit from economies of manufacturing =20= scale and Free software with no regards the end users or to the =20 environmental and actual cost of replacing hardware which has been =20 rendered useless merely in aid of screwing the competition. I believe that if you mass-produce a product and use other people's =20 GPL code in order to reduce your software development costs then you =20 have an ethical duty to allow purchasers of that product to modify =20 the code that runs on that hardware. You should provide reasonably =20 explicit instructions on how to do so, and at the very least not make =20= strides to hamper people from running software of their choosing on =20 the hardware they've bought. Manufacturers have demonstrated that =20 they don't see things this way and that they don't care how they =20 prevent their customers from fully enjoying the hardware they've =20 purchased. Clearly the rules need rewriting. Stroller. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list