[gentoo-user] [wildly OT]advice for a wireless antenna?

[gentoo-user] [wildly OT]advice for a wireless antenna?

[brullo nulla]

Hi,

I have a Gentoo-powered Macbook. I would like to improve its wireless
receiver capabilities, to be able to connect to weak wireless networks
for example in my laboratory (I would have legal access to the
university network, but in my building the signal is extremly weak...
yes, welcome to Italian infrastructures).

I would like to experiment with a cantenna or something like that.
What do you advice for it? Usb wireless key to use, advices on
construction, etc.? Anything.

Thanks a lot

m.
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[gentoo-user] Re: [wildly OT]advice for a wireless antenna?

[Grant Edwards]

On 2008-05-09, brullo nulla <brullonulla@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have a Gentoo-powered Macbook. I would like to improve its wireless
> receiver capabilities, to be able to connect to weak wireless networks
> for example in my laboratory (I would have legal access to the
> university network, but in my building the signal is extremly weak...
> yes, welcome to Italian infrastructures).
>
> I would like to experiment with a cantenna or something like that.

I've had very good luck with home-made biquad reflectors:

http://martybugs.net/wireless/biquad/
http://www.trevormarshall.com/biquad.htm

I've build both a single and a double biquad using methods
similar to the first page.  I use thin-walled brass tubing
instead of copper.

> What do you advice for it? Usb wireless key to use,

You get the key from the network admin, don't you?

> advices on construction, etc.? Anything.

I've collected some cans and some N connectors but haven't
gotten around to building a can/waveguide antenna yet.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! I'm changing the
                                  at               CHANNEL ... But all I get
                               visi.com            is commercials for "RONCO
                                                   MIRACLE BAMBOO STEAMERS"!

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [wildly OT]advice for a wireless antenna?

[brullo nulla]

> I've had very good luck with home-made biquad reflectors:
>
> http://martybugs.net/wireless/biquad/
> http://www.trevormarshall.com/biquad.htm
>
> I've build both a single and a double biquad using methods
> similar to the first page.  I use thin-walled brass tubing
> instead of copper.

Thanks, I'll have a look.

>> What do you advice for it? Usb wireless key to use,
>
> You get the key from the network admin, don't you?

I'm talking about the USB wireless adapter (I don't think I can
connect the antenna to my laptop directly),
not the passphrase key...

m.
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[gentoo-user] Re: [wildly OT]advice for a wireless antenna?

[Grant Edwards]

On 2008-05-09, brullo nulla <brullonulla@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm talking about the USB wireless adapter (I don't think I can
> connect the antenna to my laptop directly),
> not the passphrase key...

Ah. I've got a Hawking HWUG1 USB WiFi adapter that works fine
with Gentoo (I had to download driver source from somewhere).
It's got an R-SMA connector for use with external antennas.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Is the EIGHTIES
                                  at               when they had ART DECO
                               visi.com            and GERALD McBOING-BOING
                                                   lunch boxes??

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [wildly OT]advice for a wireless antenna?

[Grant]

>> I'm talking about the USB wireless adapter (I don't think I can
>> connect the antenna to my laptop directly),
>> not the passphrase key...
>
> Ah. I've got a Hawking HWUG1 USB WiFi adapter that works fine
> with Gentoo (I had to download driver source from somewhere).
> It's got an R-SMA connector for use with external antennas.

I've had good luck using these together:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833164015

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833164110

Use the rt2x00 driver included in 2.6.24 kernels.

I should mention though, I attached that antenna to a PCI madwifi card
and it works much better.  Obviously that won't work for a laptop or
if you want to move the antenna a distance from the computer via USB
cable as opposed to antenna extension cable.

- Grant
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[gentoo-user] Re: [wildly OT]advice for a wireless antenna?

[Grant Edwards]

On 2008-05-10, Grant <emailgrant@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I'm talking about the USB wireless adapter (I don't think I can
>>> connect the antenna to my laptop directly),
>>> not the passphrase key...
>>
>> Ah. I've got a Hawking HWUG1 USB WiFi adapter that works fine
>> with Gentoo (I had to download driver source from somewhere).
>> It's got an R-SMA connector for use with external antennas.
>
> I've had good luck using these together:
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833164015

Yup, that's the one I have.  That's a good price on it, too.

> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833164110

I've also got one of those antennas and it's exellent.  It
provides a little (1-2dB) more gain as my double-biquad
reflector, but it's a lot cheaper (assuming your time is worth
much), and a bit easier to use, since it will sit nicely on a
table or windowsill.

> Use the rt2x00 driver included in 2.6.24 kernels.

Cool -- it's good to know that the driver has been added to
the kernel sources.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  DIDI... is that a
                                  at               MARTIAN name, or, are we
                               visi.com            in ISRAEL?

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [wildly OT]advice for a wireless antenna?

[brullo nulla]

On Sat, May 10, 2008 at 3:44 PM, Grant Edwards <grante@visi.com> wrote:
> On 2008-05-10, Grant <emailgrant@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I'm talking about the USB wireless adapter (I don't think I can
>>>> connect the antenna to my laptop directly),
>>>> not the passphrase key...
>>>
>>> Ah. I've got a Hawking HWUG1 USB WiFi adapter that works fine
>>> with Gentoo (I had to download driver source from somewhere).
>>> It's got an R-SMA connector for use with external antennas.
>>
>> I've had good luck using these together:
>>
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833164015
>
> Yup, that's the one I have.  That's a good price on it, too.
>
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833164110
>
> I've also got one of those antennas and it's exellent.  It
> provides a little (1-2dB) more gain as my double-biquad
> reflector, but it's a lot cheaper (assuming your time is worth
> much), and a bit easier to use, since it will sit nicely on a
> table or windowsill.

Seems a nice combo, indeed.
A curiosity: by itself, the Hawking USB adapter has more or less
sensitivity than the simple Airport glued to my Macbook motherboard?

m.
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [wildly OT]advice for a wireless antenna?

[Grant]

>  >>>> I'm talking about the USB wireless adapter (I don't think I can
>  >>>> connect the antenna to my laptop directly),
>  >>>> not the passphrase key...
>  >>>
>  >>> Ah. I've got a Hawking HWUG1 USB WiFi adapter that works fine
>  >>> with Gentoo (I had to download driver source from somewhere).
>  >>> It's got an R-SMA connector for use with external antennas.
>  >>
>  >> I've had good luck using these together:
>  >>
>  >> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833164015
>  >
>  > Yup, that's the one I have.  That's a good price on it, too.
>  >
>  >> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833164110
>  >
>  > I've also got one of those antennas and it's exellent.  It
>  > provides a little (1-2dB) more gain as my double-biquad
>  > reflector, but it's a lot cheaper (assuming your time is worth
>  > much), and a bit easier to use, since it will sit nicely on a
>  > table or windowsill.
>
>  Seems a nice combo, indeed.
>  A curiosity: by itself, the Hawking USB adapter has more or less
>  sensitivity than the simple Airport glued to my Macbook motherboard?

I think it depends a lot on the maturity of the drivers.  As I said,
my Netgear PCI card uses the madwifi drivers and vastly outperforms
the Hawking adapter.  The Hawking's drivers are fairly new (rt2x00)
and madwifi has been around for quite a while now.

I do have another rt2x00 adapter that performs noticeably worse than
the Hawking.  It's a Linksys and it has no external antenna.

Also worth noting is that this item:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833315075

uses rt2x00 but has some type of failure issue.  Possibly heat
related, possibly not.  I've experienced it firsthand.

- Grant
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[gentoo-user] Re: [wildly OT]advice for a wireless antenna?

[Grant Edwards]

On 2008-05-12, Grant <emailgrant@gmail.com> wrote:

>> A curiosity: by itself, the Hawking USB adapter has more or
>> less sensitivity than the simple Airport glued to my Macbook
>> motherboard?
>
> I think it depends a lot on the maturity of the drivers.  As I
> said, my Netgear PCI card uses the madwifi drivers and vastly
> outperforms the Hawking adapter.

What do you mean by "outperform"?  I can see how drivers can
affect throughput.  The Windows drivers for my Laptop's WiFi
chipset (Intel Pro-something) only get about 1/4 of the
bandwidth that the Linux drivers do.

But, I don't understand how the driver can affect receiver
sensitivity.  That's purely a function of the design of the RF
frontend.

> The Hawking's drivers are fairly new (rt2x00) and madwifi has
> been around for quite a while now.
>
> I do have another rt2x00 adapter that performs noticeably
> worse than the Hawking.  It's a Linksys and it has no external
> antenna.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! Zippy's brain cells
                                  at               are straining to bridge
                               visi.com            synapses ...

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [wildly OT]advice for a wireless antenna?

[Alan McKinnon]

On Monday 12 May 2008, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2008-05-12, Grant <emailgrant@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> A curiosity: by itself, the Hawking USB adapter has more or
> >> less sensitivity than the simple Airport glued to my Macbook
> >> motherboard?
> >
> > I think it depends a lot on the maturity of the drivers.  As I
> > said, my Netgear PCI card uses the madwifi drivers and vastly
> > outperforms the Hawking adapter.
>
> What do you mean by "outperform"?  I can see how drivers can
> affect throughput.  The Windows drivers for my Laptop's WiFi
> chipset (Intel Pro-something) only get about 1/4 of the
> bandwidth that the Linux drivers do.
>
> But, I don't understand how the driver can affect receiver
> sensitivity.  That's purely a function of the design of the RF
> frontend.

As modified by the firmware in the device. OK, it's not the driver per 
se, but it's certainly not the hardware either



-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

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[gentoo-user] Re: [wildly OT]advice for a wireless antenna?

[Grant Edwards]

On 2008-05-12, Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:

>> What do you mean by "outperform"?  I can see how drivers can
>> affect throughput.  The Windows drivers for my Laptop's WiFi
>> chipset (Intel Pro-something) only get about 1/4 of the
>> bandwidth that the Linux drivers do.
>>
>> But, I don't understand how the driver can affect receiver
>> sensitivity.  That's purely a function of the design of the RF
>> frontend.
>
> As modified by the firmware in the device. OK, it's not the
> driver per se, but it's certainly not the hardware either

Sorry, I don't see how firmware can affect sensitivity. I've
been involved in writing firmware for RF data communications
stuff for a long time, and I've certainly never been able to
affect sensitivity.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! I just remembered
                                  at               something about a TOAD!
                               visi.com            

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [wildly OT]advice for a wireless antenna?

[Alan McKinnon]

On Monday 12 May 2008, Grant Edwards wrote:
> > As modified by the firmware in the device. OK, it's not the
> > driver per se, but it's certainly not the hardware either
>
> Sorry, I don't see how firmware can affect sensitivity. I've
> been involved in writing firmware for RF data communications
> stuff for a long time, and I've certainly never been able to
> affect sensitivity.

Well, I don't write firmware for a living, but I do know electronics and 
I do know the stated reason for having these firmware blobs at all - to 
comply with legislation in the respective countries where the device is 
sold.

The RF front end consists of amplifier and filter stages and possibly 
other stuff. The gain of the amplifier stages can easily be made 
adjustable under CPU control, so if a designer plans to do that, it 
would be trivial. Whether they currently actually DO that as opposed to 
it merely being easily possible is a question for someone else to 
answer. 

If that person is you and you know for a fact it is not done that way, 
then I shall stand corrected.

-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [wildly OT]advice for a wireless antenna?

[Grant]

>  >> What do you mean by "outperform"?  I can see how drivers can
>  >> affect throughput.  The Windows drivers for my Laptop's WiFi
>  >> chipset (Intel Pro-something) only get about 1/4 of the
>  >> bandwidth that the Linux drivers do.
>  >>
>  >> But, I don't understand how the driver can affect receiver
>  >> sensitivity.  That's purely a function of the design of the RF
>  >> frontend.
>  >
>  > As modified by the firmware in the device. OK, it's not the
>  > driver per se, but it's certainly not the hardware either
>
>  Sorry, I don't see how firmware can affect sensitivity. I've
>  been involved in writing firmware for RF data communications
>  stuff for a long time, and I've certainly never been able to
>  affect sensitivity.

I can say that I was really struggling to get a reliable wireless
connection with the rt2x00 device and Hawking external antenna
anywhere in my garage.  I tried the madwifi device attached to the
same Hawking antenna and the difference was ridiculous.  I got a
perfectly reliable signal from the back of the garage, the point
furthest from the signal's source.

Now that I think about it, I could have enabled outdoor mode for
madwifi, but I can't check it right now.  Could that account for the
difference?

- Grant
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [wildly OT]advice for a wireless antenna?

[b.n.]

Grant ha scritto:
>>  Sorry, I don't see how firmware can affect sensitivity. I've
>>  been involved in writing firmware for RF data communications
>>  stuff for a long time, and I've certainly never been able to
>>  affect sensitivity.
> 
> I can say that I was really struggling to get a reliable wireless
> connection with the rt2x00 device and Hawking external antenna
> anywhere in my garage.  I tried the madwifi device attached to the
> same Hawking antenna and the difference was ridiculous.  I got a
> perfectly reliable signal from the back of the garage, the point
> furthest from the signal's source.
> 
> Now that I think about it, I could have enabled outdoor mode for
> madwifi, but I can't check it right now.  Could that account for the
> difference?

What's madwifi outdoor mode? I googled but I can't find some readable 
information.

m.
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [wildly OT]advice for a wireless antenna?

[Grant]

> > >  Sorry, I don't see how firmware can affect sensitivity. I've
> > >  been involved in writing firmware for RF data communications
> > >  stuff for a long time, and I've certainly never been able to
> > >  affect sensitivity.
> > >
> >
> > I can say that I was really struggling to get a reliable wireless
> > connection with the rt2x00 device and Hawking external antenna
> > anywhere in my garage.  I tried the madwifi device attached to the
> > same Hawking antenna and the difference was ridiculous.  I got a
> > perfectly reliable signal from the back of the garage, the point
> > furthest from the signal's source.
> >
> > Now that I think about it, I could have enabled outdoor mode for
> > madwifi, but I can't check it right now.  Could that account for the
> > difference?
> >
>
>  What's madwifi outdoor mode? I googled but I can't find some readable
> information.

The only "info" I have is from /etc/conf.d/ath_pci:

# outdoor:      Enable/disable outdoor use
# countrycode:  Override default country code
options ath_pci outdoor=1 countrycode=0

Now that I look at that, the sensitivity difference could also be due
to my unsetting the country code.

- Grant
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