[gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[Mark Stewart]

Hello fellow Linux Users!

We here at SaviourLinux.com desire to create a united universal way. 
Please visit the website for more information, but here is the purpose:


Saviour Linux is an easy and universal Linux distribution that pays
community programmers.

Saviour Linux is not just another distribution. Saviour Linux will be
unified and run by the community. We will bring in a new business that
gives out completely free software instead of closed source. All of our
profit will come from services and it will pay volunteer programmers.
Only a little of the profit will go towards overhead.


Saviour Linux is Linux united. Every distribution can still be
independent, but we wanted to help the community in a new way.

Please contact me if you are interested.

Sincerely,
Mark Stewart



SaviourLinux.com
Coordinator and Website Maintainer

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[Robin]

Thanks for spamming the gentoo-user list.

On 1/9/06, Mark Stewart <saviour@saviourlinux.com> wrote:
> Hello fellow Linux Users!
>
> We here at SaviourLinux.com desire to create a united universal way.
> Please visit the website for more information, but here is the purpose:
>
>
> Saviour Linux is an easy and universal Linux distribution that pays
> community programmers.
>
> Saviour Linux is not just another distribution. Saviour Linux will be
> unified and run by the community. We will bring in a new business that
> gives out completely free software instead of closed source. All of our
> profit will come from services and it will pay volunteer programmers.
> Only a little of the profit will go towards overhead.
>
>
> Saviour Linux is Linux united. Every distribution can still be
> independent, but we wanted to help the community in a new way.
>
> Please contact me if you are interested.
>
> Sincerely,
> Mark Stewart
>
>
>
> SaviourLinux.com
> Coordinator and Website Maintainer
>
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>

-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[jarry]

On 1/9/06, Mark Stewart <saviour@saviourlinux.com> wrote:

<snip>
> We here at SaviourLinux.com desire to create a united universal way.
> Please visit the website for more information, but here is the purpose:
> Saviour Linux is an easy and universal Linux distribution that pays
> community programmers.
> Saviour Linux is not just another distribution. Saviour Linux will be
> unified and run by the community.
</snip>

Why only those words "united, universal, unified" sound strange to me?

Jarry

-- 
Telefonieren Sie schon oder sparen Sie noch?
NEU: GMX Phone_Flat http://www.gmx.net/de/go/telefonie
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Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[Robin]

Because they all mean the same thing :lol:

On 1/10/06, jarry@gmx.net <jarry@gmx.net> wrote:
> On 1/9/06, Mark Stewart <saviour@saviourlinux.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>
> > We here at SaviourLinux.com desire to create a united universal way.
> > Please visit the website for more information, but here is the purpose:
> > Saviour Linux is an easy and universal Linux distribution that pays
> > community programmers.
> > Saviour Linux is not just another distribution. Saviour Linux will be
> > unified and run by the community.
> </snip>
>
> Why only those words "united, universal, unified" sound strange to me?
>
> Jarry
>
> --
> Telefonieren Sie schon oder sparen Sie noch?
> NEU: GMX Phone_Flat http://www.gmx.net/de/go/telefonie
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[Jorge Almeida]

On Tue, 10 Jan 2006, jarry@gmx.net wrote:

>
> Why only those words "united, universal, unified" sound strange to me?
>
Having too much time in my hands, I visited the site. Couldn't find any
juice. Could it be that the thing doesn't exist? No doc section, no
download section, no nothing except talk about uniting all [other (?)]
distributions and becoming a Company.
-- 
Jorge Almeida
-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[Iain Buchanan]

On Tue, 2006-01-10 at 12:36 +0000, Jorge Almeida wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Jan 2006, jarry@gmx.net wrote:
> 
> >
> > Why only those words "united, universal, unified" sound strange to me?
> >
> Having too much time in my hands, I visited the site. Couldn't find any
> juice. Could it be that the thing doesn't exist? No doc section, no
> download section, no nothing except talk about uniting all [other (?)]
> distributions and becoming a Company.

That's because you haven't provided your credit card details and bank
account details yet for them to _deposit_ your money into... ;)

But seriously, if this is for real, good for them and lets hope they
succeed.  However:

1. Uniting two groups will always end up with three.
2. Programmers don't only provide assistance for the money, so money
won't necessarily attract them
3. Why re-invent the wheel?  Just join Gentoo and make it even better ;)

-- 
Iain Buchanan <iaindb at netspace dot net dot au>

Perhaps I'm missing the gene for making enemies.  :-)
             -- Larry Wall in <199708040319.UAA16213@wall.org>

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Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[Robin]

You took the words right out of my mouth Iain :-)



On 1/10/06, Iain Buchanan <iaindb@netspace.net.au> wrote:
> On Tue, 2006-01-10 at 12:36 +0000, Jorge Almeida wrote:
> > On Tue, 10 Jan 2006, jarry@gmx.net wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Why only those words "united, universal, unified" sound strange to me?
> > >
> > Having too much time in my hands, I visited the site. Couldn't find any
> > juice. Could it be that the thing doesn't exist? No doc section, no
> > download section, no nothing except talk about uniting all [other (?)]
> > distributions and becoming a Company.
>
> That's because you haven't provided your credit card details and bank
> account details yet for them to _deposit_ your money into... ;)
>
> But seriously, if this is for real, good for them and lets hope they
> succeed.  However:
>
> 1. Uniting two groups will always end up with three.
> 2. Programmers don't only provide assistance for the money, so money
> won't necessarily attract them
> 3. Why re-invent the wheel?  Just join Gentoo and make it even better ;)
>
> --
> Iain Buchanan <iaindb at netspace dot net dot au>
>
> Perhaps I'm missing the gene for making enemies.  :-)
>              -- Larry Wall in <199708040319.UAA16213@wall.org>
>
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>

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Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[Martin S]

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2006/1/10, Mark Stewart <saviour@saviourlinux.com>:
>
> Hello fellow Linux Users!
>
> We here at SaviourLinux.com desire to create a united universal way.
> Please visit the website for more information, but here is the purpose:
>
>
> Saviour Linux is an easy and universal Linux distribution that pays
> community programmers.
>
> Saviour Linux is not just another distribution. Saviour Linux will be
> unified and run by the community. We will bring in a new business that
> gives out completely free software instead of closed source. All of our
> profit will come from services and it will pay volunteer programmers.
> Only a little of the profit will go towards overhead.
>
> Whenever I read about yet another Linux distribution, my first reaction to
it is "Why?"
With the gazillion distributions already available I find it hard to come up
with a reason to create yet another one.

Regards,

Martin S

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Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[Michael Sullivan]

On Tue, 2006-01-10 at 12:23 +0100, jarry@gmx.net wrote:
> On 1/9/06, Mark Stewart <saviour@saviourlinux.com> wrote:
> 
> <snip>
> > We here at SaviourLinux.com desire to create a united universal way.
> > Please visit the website for more information, but here is the purpose:
> > Saviour Linux is an easy and universal Linux distribution that pays
> > community programmers.
> > Saviour Linux is not just another distribution. Saviour Linux will be
> > unified and run by the community.
> </snip>
> 
> Why only those words "united, universal, unified" sound strange to me?
> 
> Jarry
> 
> -- 
> Telefonieren Sie schon oder sparen Sie noch?
> NEU: GMX Phone_Flat http://www.gmx.net/de/go/telefonie

I believe in the early 1990's it was called the New World Order.  The
funny thing is that I could've sworn that pretty much all GNU Linux was
already what the person described Saviour Linux was, except with Saviour
Linux the volunteers get payed for their work.  To my way of thinking
that cheapens the product.  It's ironic.

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[Michael Sullivan]

On Tue, 2006-01-10 at 12:36 +0000, Jorge Almeida wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Jan 2006, jarry@gmx.net wrote:
> 
> >
> > Why only those words "united, universal, unified" sound strange to me?
> >
> Having too much time in my hands, I visited the site. Couldn't find any
> juice. Could it be that the thing doesn't exist? No doc section, no
> download section, no nothing except talk about uniting all [other (?)]
> distributions and becoming a Company.
> -- 
> Jorge Almeida

Sounds very Microsoftish...

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[Darryl Wagoner]

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Greetings,

I too looked at the Saviour Linux web site and my question is where's the
beef?

It looks interesting concept similar to something I can up with but haven't
had the time to do anything with.  What is the profit sharing model?  What
makes this different than other distro?

Interesting idea.

On 1/10/06, Martin S <shieldfire@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> 2006/1/10, Mark Stewart <saviour@saviourlinux.com>:
> >
> > Hello fellow Linux Users!
> >
> > We here at SaviourLinux.com desire to create a united universal way.
> > Please visit the website for more information, but here is the purpose:
> >
> >
> > Saviour Linux is an easy and universal Linux distribution that pays
> > community programmers.
> >
> > Saviour Linux is not just another distribution. Saviour Linux will be
> > unified and run by the community. We will bring in a new business that
> > gives out completely free software instead of closed source. All of our
> > profit will come from services and it will pay volunteer programmers.
> > Only a little of the profit will go towards overhead.
> >
> > Whenever I read about yet another Linux distribution, my first reaction
> to it is "Why?"
> With the gazillion distributions already available I find it hard to come
> up with a reason to create yet another one.
>
> Regards,
>
> Martin S




--
Darryl Wagoner - WA1GON

"Evil triumphs when good men do nothing."  - Edmund Burke [1729-1797]

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Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[ellotheth rimmwen]

On 1/10/06, Darryl Wagoner <darryl-prv@mason-nh.net> wrote:

> I too looked at the Saviour Linux web site and my question is where's the
> beef?

<quote>
As a community project, we need to stand out. "Saviour" is the longer
word that is more.

Saviour Linux is its own. As its own, it needs to be different than
traditional English and it needs to stand out. And "Savior" can sound
close to "Savor." We need a longer word to represent a great program
and community.
</quote>

And you want beef?!

--
ellotheth rimmwen
* monjoy *

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Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[Darryl Wagoner]

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Huh?  A Linux distro will stand out by how well or poorly the distro is, not
by the name that is used.

Gentoo is one such distro.  Gentoo has been the best distro that I have used
and I have used many.  I would like to see a jump start version which was
quicker to get going, but otherwise it is a great distro.

If you had anything to do with creating Gentoo, I would like to say THANK
YOU!!!

-darryl

On 1/10/06, ellotheth rimmwen <ellotheth@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 1/10/06, Darryl Wagoner <darryl-prv@mason-nh.net> wrote:
>
> > I too looked at the Saviour Linux web site and my question is where's
> the
> > beef?
>
> <quote>
> As a community project, we need to stand out. "Saviour" is the longer
> word that is more.
>
> Saviour Linux is its own. As its own, it needs to be different than
> traditional English and it needs to stand out. And "Savior" can sound
> close to "Savor." We need a longer word to represent a great program
> and community.
> </quote>
>
> And you want beef?!
>
> --
> ellotheth rimmwen
> * monjoy *
>
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>


--
Darryl Wagoner - WA1GON

"Evil triumphs when good men do nothing."  - Edmund Burke [1729-1797]

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Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 10:31:57 -0500, Darryl Wagoner wrote:

> It looks interesting concept similar to something I can up with but
> haven't had the time to do anything with.  What is the profit sharing
> model?  What makes this different than other distro?

It it totally bug-free!


-- 
Neil Bothwick

"Bother," said Pooh, as he connected at 300 bps.

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Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[Shawn Singh]

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seems like the wrong place for such a pitch, proposal, proposition :-P, but
seriously what r these people thinking?

On 1/10/06, Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:
>
> On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 10:31:57 -0500, Darryl Wagoner wrote:
>
> > It looks interesting concept similar to something I can up with but
> > haven't had the time to do anything with.  What is the profit sharing
> > model?  What makes this different than other distro?
>
> It it totally bug-free!
>
>
> --
> Neil Bothwick
>
> "Bother," said Pooh, as he connected at 300 bps.
>
>
>


--
Shawn Singh

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Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[Darryl Wagoner]

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On 1/10/06, Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:
>
> On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 10:31:57 -0500, Darryl Wagoner wrote:
>
> > It looks interesting concept similar to something I can up with but
> > haven't had the time to do anything with.  What is the profit sharing
> > model?  What makes this different than other distro?
>
> It it totally bug-free!
>

Well that would make it different!  It is also totally unrealistic.


--
Darryl Wagoner - WA1GON

"Evil triumphs when good men do nothing."  - Edmund Burke [1729-1797]

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Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[Martin S]

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2006/1/10, Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk>:
>
> On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 10:31:57 -0500, Darryl Wagoner wrote:
>
> > It looks interesting concept similar to something I can up with but
> > haven't had the time to do anything with.  What is the profit sharing
> > model?  What makes this different than other distro?
>
> It it totally bug-free!



Wait untill they release their first app :-)

Regards,

Martin S

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Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[Michael Sullivan]

On Tue, 2006-01-10 at 16:03 +0000, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 10:31:57 -0500, Darryl Wagoner wrote:
> 
> > It looks interesting concept similar to something I can up with but
> > haven't had the time to do anything with.  What is the profit sharing
> > model?  What makes this different than other distro?
> 
> It it totally bug-free!

Totally bug-free?  AND brand new???  If you believe that, I have a
bridge to sell you...

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.]

On Tuesday 10 January 2006 10:03, Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote 
about 'Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way':
> On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 10:31:57 -0500, Darryl Wagoner wrote:
> > It looks interesting concept similar to something I can up with but
> > haven't had the time to do anything with.  What is the profit sharing
> > model?  What makes this different than other distro?
>
> It it totally bug-free!

For the sarcasm impaired, this is a joke.  Since they haven't produces any 
code (that any of us can see) it is inherently bug-free.

-- 
Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.
bss03@volumehost.com
ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy
-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[Shawn Singh]

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>>>Since they haven't produces any
code (that any of us can see) it is inherently bug-free.

:-), yeah and when they write some, there will ONLY be OPPORTUNITIES that
are in need of
realization :)

On 1/10/06, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. <bss03@volumehost.com> wrote:
>
> On Tuesday 10 January 2006 10:03, Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote
> about 'Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way':
> > On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 10:31:57 -0500, Darryl Wagoner wrote:
> > > It looks interesting concept similar to something I can up with but
> > > haven't had the time to do anything with.  What is the profit sharing
> > > model?  What makes this different than other distro?
> >
> > It it totally bug-free!
>
> For the sarcasm impaired, this is a joke.  Since they haven't produces any
> code (that any of us can see) it is inherently bug-free.
>
> --
> Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.
> bss03@volumehost.com
> ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>


--
Shawn Singh

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Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[Daniel da Veiga]

On 1/10/06, Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 10:31:57 -0500, Darryl Wagoner wrote:
>
> > It looks interesting concept similar to something I can up with but
> > haven't had the time to do anything with.  What is the profit sharing
> > model?  What makes this different than other distro?
>
> It it totally bug-free!
>

There's no such thing as "bug-free software", and Santa Claus does not
exist, neither does the Easter Bunny or Trolls (but I'm not really
certain about the trolls). There are two kinds of programs, the ones
with discovered bugs and the ones with bugs to be discovered.

>
> --
> Neil Bothwick
>
> "Bother," said Pooh, as he connected at 300 bps.
>
>
>


--
Daniel da Veiga
Computer Operator - RS - Brazil
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Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[Antoine]

>>It it totally bug-free!
...
> There's no such thing as "bug-free software", and Santa Claus does not
> exist, neither does the Easter Bunny or Trolls (but I'm not really
> certain about the trolls). There are two kinds of programs, the ones
> with discovered bugs and the ones with bugs to be discovered.

Rubbish! I have never written code with bugs in it! A great deal with 
some highly undesirable features... but my code is nowhere near good 
enough to create actual bugs :-).
Chrs
A

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[Christoph Eckert]

> It it totally bug-free!

How boring!

:)


Best regards


ce
-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[Petr Kocmid]

On Tuesday 10 January 2006 04:40, Mark Stewart wrote:
> Hello fellow Linux Users!
> We here at SaviourLinux.com desire to create a united universal way.
> Please visit the website for more information, but here is the purpose:

You missed the target audience. Here at gentoo there are mostly hardcore linux 
geeks, and we already have "universal way". You do not make a fortune here 
with a scam like this.

-- 
Petr
-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[Matthias Guede]

ellotheth rimmwen wrote:
> On 1/10/06, Darryl Wagoner <darryl-prv@mason-nh.net> wrote:
> 
> 
>>I too looked at the Saviour Linux web site and my question is where's the
>>beef?
> 
> 
> <quote>
> As a community project, we need to stand out. "Saviour" is the longer
> word that is more.
> 
> Saviour Linux is its own. As its own, it needs to be different than
> traditional English and it needs to stand out. And "Savior" can sound
> close to "Savor." We need a longer word to represent a great program
> and community.
> </quote>
> 
> And you want beef?!
> 
> --
> ellotheth rimmwen
> * monjoy *
> 

And I'm sure you all noticed the very precise description of Gentoo 
Linux in the "About Linux" section:

<quote>
It compiles almost everything from the source code [...] this gives it a 
speed advantage as well as other things.
</quote>

Matthias
-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 10:29:11 -0600, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:

> > It it totally bug-free!

> For the sarcasm impaired, this is a joke.  Since they haven't produces
> any code (that any of us can see) it is inherently bug-free.

I'm glad you didn't write humor-impaired, because then we'd have had a
long discussion on whether the longer "humour" stands out and
represents a great community better than the "traditional" (albeit more
recent) humor...


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Procedure: (n.) a method of performing a program sub-task in an
inefficient way by extensively using the stack instead of a GOTO.

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Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[Antoine]

> I'm glad you didn't write humor-impaired, because then we'd have had a
> long discussion on whether the longer "humour" stands out and
> represents a great community better than the "traditional" (albeit more
> recent) humor...

Very humerous.
Antoine
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Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[Michael Sullivan]

On Tue, 2006-01-10 at 18:15 +0100, Antoine wrote:
> >>It it totally bug-free!
> ...
> > There's no such thing as "bug-free software", and Santa Claus does not
> > exist, neither does the Easter Bunny or Trolls (but I'm not really
> > certain about the trolls). There are two kinds of programs, the ones
> > with discovered bugs and the ones with bugs to be discovered.
> 
> Rubbish! I have never written code with bugs in it! A great deal with 
> some highly undesirable features... but my code is nowhere near good 
> enough to create actual bugs :-).
> Chrs
> A
> 

I could teach you how...

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] A New Linux Way

[Willie Wong]

On Tue, Jan 10, 2006 at 05:42:48PM +0000, Penguin Lover Neil Bothwick squawked:
> I'm glad you didn't write humor-impaired, because then we'd have had a
> long discussion on whether the longer "humour" stands out and
> represents a great community better than the "traditional" (albeit more
> recent) humor...

Not making judgment calls on anyone in particular...
That reminds me of a favorite quote of mine:
  "I prefer the shorter 'humor', because u obviously don't get it."

W


-- 
1 out of every 5 people thinks the other 4 are idiots.
Sortir en Pantoufles: up 59 days, 10:52
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Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[Tony Davison]

On Tuesday 10 January 2006 12:36, Jorge Almeida wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Jan 2006, jarry@gmx.net wrote:
> > Why only those words "united, universal, unified" sound strange to me?
>
> Having too much time in my hands, I visited the site. Couldn't find any
> juice. Could it be that the thing doesn't exist? No doc section, no
> download section, no nothing except talk about uniting all [other (?)]
> distributions and becoming a Company.

I'm impressed with search skills Jorge. I couldn't even find the site.

-- 
Big Tone
-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[Dale]

Tony Davison wrote:

>On Tuesday 10 January 2006 12:36, Jorge Almeida wrote:
>  
>
>>On Tue, 10 Jan 2006, jarry@gmx.net wrote:
>>    
>>
>>>Why only those words "united, universal, unified" sound strange to me?
>>>      
>>>
>>Having too much time in my hands, I visited the site. Couldn't find any
>>juice. Could it be that the thing doesn't exist? No doc section, no
>>download section, no nothing except talk about uniting all [other (?)]
>>distributions and becoming a Company.
>>    
>>
>
>I'm impressed with search skills Jorge. I couldn't even find the site.
>
>  
>

This help?

http://saviourlinux.com/

I hate to say this, but something is "fishy" here.

Dale
:-)

-- 
To err is human, I'm most certainly human.

I have four rigs:

1:  Home built; Abit NF7 ver 2.0 w/ AMD 2500+ CPU, 1GB of ram and right now two 80GB hard drives.  Named Smoker
2:  Home built; Iwill KK266-R w/ AMD 1GHz CPU, 256MBs of ram and a 4GB drive.  Named Swifty
3:  Home built; Gigabyte GA-71XE4 w/ 800MHz CPU, 224MBs of ram and a 2.5GB drive.  Named Pokey
4:  Compaq Proliant 6000 Server w/ Quad 200MHz CPUs, 128MBs of ram and a 4.3GB SCSI drive.  Named Putput

All run Gentoo Linux, all run folding. #1 is my desktop, 2, 3, and 4 are set up as servers.  

-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[Robin]

NO kidding... I have to say just by the way the website is worded it
sounds like a scam... You want to know what is even funnier is that
this spam message has generated a boat load of responses :)

Robin

On 1/10/06, Dale <dalek@exceedtech.net> wrote:
> Tony Davison wrote:
>
> >On Tuesday 10 January 2006 12:36, Jorge Almeida wrote:
> >
> >
> >>On Tue, 10 Jan 2006, jarry@gmx.net wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Why only those words "united, universal, unified" sound strange to me?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>Having too much time in my hands, I visited the site. Couldn't find any
> >>juice. Could it be that the thing doesn't exist? No doc section, no
> >>download section, no nothing except talk about uniting all [other (?)]
> >>distributions and becoming a Company.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >I'm impressed with search skills Jorge. I couldn't even find the site.
> >
> >
> >
>
> This help?
>
> http://saviourlinux.com/
>
> I hate to say this, but something is "fishy" here.
>
> Dale
> :-)
>
> --
> To err is human, I'm most certainly human.
>
> I have four rigs:
>
> 1:  Home built; Abit NF7 ver 2.0 w/ AMD 2500+ CPU, 1GB of ram and right now two 80GB hard drives.  Named Smoker
> 2:  Home built; Iwill KK266-R w/ AMD 1GHz CPU, 256MBs of ram and a 4GB drive.  Named Swifty
> 3:  Home built; Gigabyte GA-71XE4 w/ 800MHz CPU, 224MBs of ram and a 2.5GB drive.  Named Pokey
> 4:  Compaq Proliant 6000 Server w/ Quad 200MHz CPUs, 128MBs of ram and a 4.3GB SCSI drive.  Named Putput
>
> All run Gentoo Linux, all run folding. #1 is my desktop, 2, 3, and 4 are set up as servers.
>
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>

-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[Tony Davison]

On Tuesday 10 January 2006 19:17, Dale wrote:

> >
> >I'm impressed with search skills Jorge. I couldn't even find the site.
>
> This help?
>
> http://saviourlinux.com/
>
> I hate to say this, but something is "fishy" here.
>
Cheers Dale.

It does seem weird.

-- 
Big Tone
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[Tony Davison]

On Tuesday 10 January 2006 19:26, Robin wrote:
> NO kidding... I have to say just by the way the website is worded it
> sounds like a scam... You want to know what is even funnier is that
> this spam message has generated a boat load of responses :)

EM and all that.

-- 
Big Tone
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[Jorge Almeida]

On Tue, 10 Jan 2006, Dale wrote:
> I hate to say this, but something is "fishy" here.
>
Now, let's not be hasty. The original post does say other distributions
will be allowed to remain independent. That's really generous.

Seriously, does someone find the talk in the site somewhat
style-impaired? My limited domain of the English language doesn't make
me the best judge, but some phrases make me wonder about how young the
webmaster is, assuming that English is his first language...
-- 
Jorge Almeida
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[Neil Bothwick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 568 bytes --]

On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 21:00:17 +0000 (WET), Jorge Almeida wrote:

> Seriously, does someone find the talk in the site somewhat
> style-impaired? My limited domain of the English language doesn't make
> me the best judge, but some phrases make me wonder about how young the
> webmaster is, assuming that English is his first language...

I thought it had been written by someone who had just been on a marketing
or management course. Plenty of buzz phrases with no real content.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

I'm warning you! One step closer and I'll drop carrier!

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Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[Rafael Fernández López]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Petr Kocmid wrote:
> On Tuesday 10 January 2006 04:40, Mark Stewart wrote:
> 
>>Hello fellow Linux Users!
>>We here at SaviourLinux.com desire to create a united universal way.
>>Please visit the website for more information, but here is the purpose:
> 
> 
> You missed the target audience. Here at gentoo there are mostly hardcore linux 
> geeks, and we already have "universal way". You do not make a fortune here 
> with a scam like this.
> 

I'm really impressed how such a spam message can take so long and lots
of replies... hahaha, but it is pretty funny to hear all your comments.

Well, in sf it doesn't seem to be anything... THEY HAVE WORKED TOO HARD
TILL NOW... hahaha.

I'm gonna install that thing instead of my <yesterday> loved Gentoo
distro. :P

Bye,
Rafael Fernández López.
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-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-user] Sorry about the spam

[Mark Stewart]

Really, I should have thought more about the first e-mail (oops).
Thank you for all your comments!

Here is what the goal is (as of now):
- To have some kind of useful standard among the many distributions.
- To compensate those who need or want compensation for their hard
work.  (The laborer is worthy of his/her wages.)
- Community moderated, no controlling overhead like Microsoft.
- Whatever they release will be completely free software.  No strings.

"United" means we help each other develop and improve Linux
software--separately.  So no united.  That's optional for now.

How can people be interested?
- It is just a fund paid by the community for the community
- Overhead will be minimal, if anything.
- People are already interested in Linux, and they would like to donate
to a worthy cause. (Yes, this does mean that we would have to be worthy)

What's the point?
- Make Linux better
- Increase Linux users (Microsoft users might convert)
- Better the community
- Pay people who deserve it


Really, we could make Gentoo the official distribution of Saviour
Linux.  Personally, I think it is the best.

Mark Stewart

-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Sorry about the spam

[Dale]

Mark Stewart wrote:

>
>
>Really, we could make Gentoo the official distribution of Saviour
>Linux.  Personally, I think it is the best.
>
>Mark Stewart
>
>  
>


So you want to "sell" Gentoo Linux?  This is confusing me.  For once I 
have been up a while and am not sleepy yet so I should be able to get 
this.  I'm still confused though.

Dale
:-)

-- 
To err is human, I'm most certainly human.

I have four rigs:

1:  Home built; Abit NF7 ver 2.0 w/ AMD 2500+ CPU, 1GB of ram and right now two 80GB hard drives.  Named Smoker
2:  Home built; Iwill KK266-R w/ AMD 1GHz CPU, 256MBs of ram and a 4GB drive.  Named Swifty
3:  Home built; Gigabyte GA-71XE4 w/ 800MHz CPU, 224MBs of ram and a 2.5GB drive.  Named Pokey
4:  Compaq Proliant 6000 Server w/ Quad 200MHz CPUs, 128MBs of ram and a 4.3GB SCSI drive.  Named Putput

All run Gentoo Linux, all run folding. #1 is my desktop, 2, 3, and 4 are set up as servers.  

-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[Neil Bothwick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 799 bytes --]

On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 13:04:27 +0000, Mattias Merilai wrote:

> Didn't that ou/o stuff in humour/humor, saviour/savior, colour/color 
> etc. have anything to do with  differences between uk and us english? I 
> seem to remember that in uk they spell these words with ou and the lazy 
> and/or progressive americans have shortened it down to only o for 
> themselves...

Yes, which is why it was amusing that the site describes "savior" as the
traditional spelling :)

The explanation I heard is that when Noah Webster was compiling his
dictionary, he opted for the simpler spelling whenever there was a
choice. The Webster dictionary became the de facto reference in US
education, so his spelling choices became the norm for Americans.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Death to all fanatics!

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RE: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[Michael Kintzios]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Neil Bothwick [mailto:neil@digimed.co.uk] 
> Sent: 10 January 2006 21:15
> To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way
> 
> 
> On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 21:00:17 +0000 (WET), Jorge Almeida wrote:
> 
> > Seriously, does someone find the talk in the site somewhat
> > style-impaired? My limited domain of the English language 
> doesn't make
> > me the best judge, but some phrases make me wonder about 
> how young the
> > webmaster is, assuming that English is his first language...
> 
> I thought it had been written by someone who had just been on 
> a marketing
> or management course. Plenty of buzz phrases with no real content.

And a p*ss poor management course at that.  Consider this:
"The traditional model for operating systems is a company request model.
Saviour Linux uses a user request model in which users dictate what the
operating system turns into instead of a business committee. Now, the
users decide what will be, not businessmen."

In any business model users (ultimately) generate demand, which if
deemed worthy may entice suppliers to provide products/services.  In
this example the suppliers are (ultimately) the programmers and their
decisions are based on manifested user demand and which is evaluated by
programmers' personal preferences.  The evaluation of what is worthy to
spend development time on is a business decision (programming time has a
value whether rewarded by monetary means or not).  By virtue of the fact
that programmers are making business decisions they are acting as the
aforementioned businessmen.  If many programmers join a development
effort and make joint decisions they form, yep, that's right: "a
business committee"!

What he is implying but not articulating in his paragraph is the
not-for-profit aspect of the business model.  That does not change the
argument.  Decisions of value remain business decisions irrespective of
the accounting treatment (distribution) of economic profit.

It may after all not be a scam - just a superficially thought through
uni project . . .

Just my 2c's.
-- 
Regards,
Mick

-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[Martin Eisenhardt]

Hello everyone,

OK, this *is* getting rather off-topic, but what the heck ... :-D

On Wednesday 11 January 2006 14:04, Mattias Merilai wrote:
> Antoine wrote:
> >> I'm glad you didn't write humor-impaired, because then we'd have had a
> >> long discussion on whether the longer "humour" stands out and
> >> represents a great community better than the "traditional" (albeit more
> >> recent) humor...
>
> Didn't that ou/o stuff in humour/humor, saviour/savior, colour/color
> etc. have anything to do with  differences between uk and us english? I
> seem to remember that in uk they spell these words with ou and the lazy
> and/or progressive americans have shortened it down to only o for
> themselves...

IIRC it is just the other way round. The Pilgrim Fathers came from England to 
Cape Cod (near Boston) and brought with them the English language. At that 
point in time, color was spelt color - even in the UK. Americans have kept 
the old spelling while their progressive European ancestors changed the 
spelling of some word (f.e. color -> colour) - maybe because of some French 
influence at the Court in London ...?

If you want more information on this, Bill Bryson's book "Made in America" is 
a rich source for that kind of things.

Kind regards
Martin Eisenhardt

> English is however not my native language so if i'm mistaken please
> excuse my yet-another-spam inspired by the infamous Yet Another Best
> Distro Ever (tm).

P.S.: Since English is not my native language either I am by no means an 
authoritative source of information on the development of the English 
language over the past centuries - I just think I remember having read this 
somewhere but forgot exactly where ...
-- 
Dipl. Wirtsch.Inf. (Univ.) Martin Eisenhardt

Otto-Friedrich-University Bamberg
Department Business Informatics and Applied Computer Science
Media Informatics Group

D - 96045 Bamberg

fon: +49 (951) 863 2856
fax: +49 (951) 863 2852

www: http://www.mneisen.org

-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[Iain Buchanan]

Hello again.

I do think "To have some kind of useful standard among the many
distributions." is a good goal, but /Savio[u]?r Linux/ is a strange way
of doing it...

anyway, see below

On Wed, 2006-01-11 at 12:34 +0100, Martin Eisenhardt wrote:
> Hello everyone,
> 
> OK, this *is* getting rather off-topic, but what the heck ... :-D
> >
> > Didn't that ou/o stuff in humour/humor, saviour/savior, colour/color
> > etc. have anything to do with  differences between uk and us english? I
> > seem to remember that in uk they spell these words with ou and the lazy
> > and/or progressive americans have shortened it down to only o for
> > themselves...
> 
> IIRC it is just the other way round. 
[snip]
> 
> If you want more information on this, Bill Bryson's book "Made in America" is 
> a rich source for that kind of things.

> > English is however not my native language so if i'm mistaken please
> > excuse my yet-another-spam inspired by the infamous Yet Another Best
> > Distro Ever (tm).
> 
> P.S.: Since English is not my native language either I am by no means an 
> authoritative source of information on the development of the English 
> language over the past centuries

English _is_ my native language, and I am still by no means as
authoritative source of information on the devel... yadda yadda yadda!

I think once we've got to the stage of UK (and AU) vs US spelling, I can
invoke "Godwin's Law"[1] hereby ending the discussion completely and
immediately ;)

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

cya on another thread :)
-- 
Iain Buchanan <iaindb at netspace dot net dot au>

Many pages make a thick book, except for pocket Bibles which are on very
very thin paper.

-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[Mattias Merilai]

Antoine wrote:

>
>> I'm glad you didn't write humor-impaired, because then we'd have had a
>> long discussion on whether the longer "humour" stands out and
>> represents a great community better than the "traditional" (albeit more
>> recent) humor...
>

Didn't that ou/o stuff in humour/humor, saviour/savior, colour/color 
etc. have anything to do with  differences between uk and us english? I 
seem to remember that in uk they spell these words with ou and the lazy 
and/or progressive americans have shortened it down to only o for 
themselves...
English is however not my native language so if i'm mistaken please 
excuse my yet-another-spam inspired by the infamous Yet Another Best 
Distro Ever (tm).
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[Neil Bothwick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 657 bytes --]

On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 22:21:23 +0930, Iain Buchanan wrote:

> I think once we've got to the stage of UK (and AU) vs US spelling, I can
> invoke "Godwin's Law"[1] hereby ending the discussion completely and
> immediately ;)
> 
> [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

[quote]
It is considered poor form to arbitrarily raise such a comparison with
the motive of ending the thread. There is a widely recognized codicil
that any such deliberate invocation of Godwin's Law will be unsuccessful.
[/quote]


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Q. How many mice does it take to screw in a light bulb?
A. Only two - but it's difficult to get them in there.

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
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Re: [gentoo-user] Sorry about the spam

[Robin]

So in reality Saviour Linux will not be a disturbution of it's own
just a "branch" of Gentoo (for example)

That is my take on it.


On 1/11/06, Dale <dalek@exceedtech.net> wrote:
> Mark Stewart wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >Really, we could make Gentoo the official distribution of Saviour
> >Linux.  Personally, I think it is the best.
> >
> >Mark Stewart
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> So you want to "sell" Gentoo Linux?  This is confusing me.  For once I
> have been up a while and am not sleepy yet so I should be able to get
> this.  I'm still confused though.
>
> Dale
> :-)
>
> --
> To err is human, I'm most certainly human.
>
> I have four rigs:
>
> 1:  Home built; Abit NF7 ver 2.0 w/ AMD 2500+ CPU, 1GB of ram and right now two 80GB hard drives.  Named Smoker
> 2:  Home built; Iwill KK266-R w/ AMD 1GHz CPU, 256MBs of ram and a 4GB drive.  Named Swifty
> 3:  Home built; Gigabyte GA-71XE4 w/ 800MHz CPU, 224MBs of ram and a 2.5GB drive.  Named Pokey
> 4:  Compaq Proliant 6000 Server w/ Quad 200MHz CPUs, 128MBs of ram and a 4.3GB SCSI drive.  Named Putput
>
> All run Gentoo Linux, all run folding. #1 is my desktop, 2, 3, and 4 are set up as servers.
>
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>

-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Sorry about the spam

[Daniel da Veiga]

On 1/11/06, Mark Stewart <saviour@saviourlinux.com> wrote:
> Really, I should have thought more about the first e-mail (oops).
> Thank you for all your comments!
>
> Here is what the goal is (as of now):
> - To have some kind of useful standard among the many distributions.
> - To compensate those who need or want compensation for their hard
> work.  (The laborer is worthy of his/her wages.)
> - Community moderated, no controlling overhead like Microsoft.
> - Whatever they release will be completely free software.  No strings.
>
> "United" means we help each other develop and improve Linux
> software--separately.  So no united.  That's optional for now.
>
> How can people be interested?
> - It is just a fund paid by the community for the community
> - Overhead will be minimal, if anything.
> - People are already interested in Linux, and they would like to donate
> to a worthy cause. (Yes, this does mean that we would have to be worthy)
>
> What's the point?
> - Make Linux better
> - Increase Linux users (Microsoft users might convert)
> - Better the community
> - Pay people who deserve it
>
>
> Really, we could make Gentoo the official distribution of Saviour
> Linux.  Personally, I think it is the best.

I guess you just named Saviour a project to fund a distribution, if I
got what you mean, anyway, quotting Gentoo.org:

"The Gentoo Foundation has been created to provide financial
caretaking, juridical protection and oversee general Gentoo
development to keep it in line with the Social Contract."

We already have that... In fact, many of the aspects of what you say
Saviour would be already exists and are at heavy development as we
type, and its called, Gentoo Linux ;)

>
> Mark Stewart
>
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>


--
Daniel da Veiga
Computer Operator - RS - Brazil
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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GCM/IT/P/O d-? s:- a? C++$ UBLA++ P+ L++ E--- W+++$ N o+ K- w O M- V-
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------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

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Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[Holly Bostick]

Neil Bothwick schreef:
> On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 22:21:23 +0930, Iain Buchanan wrote:
> 
> 
>>I think once we've got to the stage of UK (and AU) vs US spelling, I can
>>invoke "Godwin's Law"[1] hereby ending the discussion completely and
>>immediately ;)
>>
>>[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
> 
> 
> [quote]
> It is considered poor form to arbitrarily raise such a comparison with
> the motive of ending the thread. There is a widely recognized codicil
> that any such deliberate invocation of Godwin's Law will be unsuccessful.
> [/quote]
> 
> 

Ooh, Neil, you're such a pedant! Gives me a shiver just listening to you.

LOL

Holly

-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-user] Re: A New Linux Way

[James]

Petr Kocmid <Petr.Kocmid <at> project-bhairava.org> writes:


> On Tuesday 10 January 2006 04:40, Mark Stewart wrote:
> > Hello fellow Linux Users!
> > We here at SaviourLinux.com desire to create a united universal way.
> > Please visit the website for more information, but here is the purpose:

> You missed the target audience. Here at gentoo there are mostly hardcore linux 
> geeks, and we already have "universal way". You do not make a fortune here 
> with a scam like this.

(Splash--WAKE UP CALL)

This thread has generated much noise, because it invokes the very antithesis 
of many things we hold dear: Irrelevance of Microsoft one day, ubiquitous
secure and distributed computing, fantastic multimedia influenced and 
controlled by the little people of world etc etc....

It has generated so much concern (deeply disturbing responses) because we all
need to earn a living and it'd be nice if we could do it, being perveyours
of linux (Gentoo specifically) yet we lack initiative.

I have often talk about preparing Gentoo for the masses, with little collective
interest. I have even offered to spent my limited financial resources to get
talented people to develop specific software and make it open source so that
it can be used freely, available in source code and also open to 
entrepreneurial endeavors, much like the BSDish licenses. I personally think
all of the hype over licenses are a waste of bandwidth. Who gives a shit,
statistically. If something is great everybody is going to use it, and 
it's associated technical perveyours should make money signing autographs.

'Savior'  is something Linux needs. The simple solution is for perveyours of
(Gentoo) linux to stop being 'bone-heads' and start being Entrepreneurs.
You make money, become affluent, you can write all the code and give it
to whatever cause you want. What the youth of this list do not realize is
their "Free time" combined with strong "programming skills" is capital.
use it wisely, and more capital will flow your way.

Specifically, I work as an engineer, with machines, industrial processes,
communications, and too dam many lawyers and politicians. Machines on this
earth are mostly controlled by SCADA systems: Supervisor Controls And Data
Aquistion (sounds sexy huh?) Currenlty MicroSuck dominates the space, but,
it's lack of robust security, has created a huge vacuum, highlighted by
activities of 9/11. Futhermore in the near future, there will be at least
100 machines (micro P with connnectivity) per humanoid and the gap will
only increase. AKA, the net of the future belongs to machines. Just look
at the number of peripherals (machines) we have today and the pending
explosion of every electro-mechanical device in your home, auto, work
and leisure activities, having 'connectivity' in the not too distant
future. Yet Linux lacks a robust open source SCADA plan. Many attemps
have been made, but, most have been diverted to the traditional business
model (come work for me and I'll give you a paycheck). Now is the time
to develop software so that all electrical devices can be seemlessly
managed and controlled. Whe have power over ethernet (802.af) and 
ethernet over powerlines, not to mention Rf chipsets that are shockingly
low in price. The current vendor track is build a new device,
write new software, and add it to the thousands of applications that
exist. The future paradyne could be: Develop a robust Linux SCADA software
package, make money migrating industry and consumers to it, and write
device drivers for any product someone builds. That way the cost of
software development is born of the open source community, and local
entrepreneurs can spin hardware with local manufacturers to build
successful 'regional products'. Gentoos get new toys, many of which
are built by people they know....

I have offered money to any young, talented  person wanting to make
a name for themselves by championing the cause to develop an open source
SCADA system for (Gentoo) linux.  No takers. none. Why? This could become
an excellent opportunity to teach software development, and migrate
the industrial world to Gentoo.

Leads me to beleive that everyone has too much cash or are scared to 'step up'.
My programming skills have atrofied (like my spelling skills) over time. 
Furthermore, I'd be most interested in installing this SCADA system somewhere
and generating attention as to what promise Gentoo holds for the future.
The more of an Entrepreneur I become the less time I have to stay current or
maintain my existing skill sets. Youth provides opportunity for greatness. I'm
willing to finance greatness. There is no greater need than to develop a
(Gentoo) based SCADA system. EVERYONE, except the commmercial SCADA vendors is
very, very tired of MicroSuck in the Industrial space....

Then along comes this "Savior Thread" where folks are almost interested
in giving away their personal capital in the pursuit of foolishness.

My answer to Savior Linux is "put the check into the mail, and I'll be
right there". But, I'm willing to send a check to someone that this list
agrees with, has the BALLS and BRAINS to build a SCADA software package
for Gentoo. I just want a licence that encourages entrepreneurial
implementation of the software, more akin to BSDishness..... That way
folks can build hardware, sell it in small volume, make a living,
and the greater gentoo community becomes greater, because we have
the newest/coolest hardware toys, and the software is part of a single,
very cool package that is easy to maintain. Under this scheme, developing
device drivers would become routine for Gentoo Folks. Hardware guys
could focus on hardware and gets their drivers for free!

If you are unfamilar with SCADA:
http://www.comedi.org/doc
http://www.modcomp.com/scada/scada_app.html
http://www.rtaautomation.com/modbustcp
http://www.jffnms.org

The rub is ( i use to love the rub: in engineering school that's where
some old, nasty bastard challenged the students to actually do something
with what we were learning) 
video controls and display of video needs to be added to the SCADA software.
I think an open API for rapid addition of machines and  hardware beyond 
that of PLC (programmable logic controllers) is important too. 
Think of it as SCADA on steroids.

I'm not rich [(3) kids; beautiful, nagging wife and a boat in disrepair];
yet this is something that I'm will to spend my money on, for the 
benfit of the wider Gentoo community.

Any takers? 


sincerely, 
James Horton, PE






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Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 16:55:19 +0100, Holly Bostick wrote:

> Ooh, Neil, you're such a pedant!

You're too kind :)


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Press any key... no, no, no, NOT THAT ONE!

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Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[Uwe Thiem]

On 10 January 2006 18:17, Michael Sullivan wrote:
> On Tue, 2006-01-10 at 16:03 +0000, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> > On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 10:31:57 -0500, Darryl Wagoner wrote:
> > > It looks interesting concept similar to something I can up with but
> > > haven't had the time to do anything with.  What is the profit sharing
> > > model?  What makes this different than other distro?
> >
> > It it totally bug-free!
>
> Totally bug-free?  AND brand new???  If you believe that, I have a
> bridge to sell you...

Actually, Neil is right. Vapourware is bug-free. By definition.

Uwe

-- 
Unix is sexy:
who | grep -i blonde | date
cd ~; unzip; touch; strip; finger
mount; gasp; yes; uptime; umount
sleep
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Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[Uwe Thiem]

On 11 January 2006 18:22, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 16:55:19 +0100, Holly Bostick wrote:
> > Ooh, Neil, you're such a pedant!
>
> You're too kind :)

Shivers are good for the soul. ;-)

... and pedants are good for software development. 

Uwe
(who is good for throwing these Chinese solid state thin clients, I have got 
yesterday, out of the [wW]indows)

-- 
Unix is sexy:
who | grep -i blonde | date
cd ~; unzip; touch; strip; finger
mount; gasp; yes; uptime; umount
sleep
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Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[Iain Buchanan]

On Wed, 2006-01-11 at 13:39 +0000, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 22:21:23 +0930, Iain Buchanan wrote:
> 
> > I think once we've got to the stage of UK (and AU) vs US spelling, I can
> > invoke "Godwin's Law"[1] hereby ending the discussion completely and
> > immediately ;)
> > 
> > [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
> 
> [quote]
> It is considered poor form to arbitrarily raise such a comparison with
> the motive of ending the thread. There is a widely recognized codicil
> that any such deliberate invocation of Godwin's Law will be unsuccessful.
> [/quote]

[quote]
Godwin developed the law as a counter-meme and began posting it in
Usenet discussions after such a comparison occurred.
[/quote]

I took the spelling of words as being a "good enough" reason to invoke
Godwin's Law, and hence posted it "after the comparison occurred".  I
did not, in fact, raise the comparison of iou to ou just to raise
Godwin's Law, and therefore my invocation should not be unsuccessful.

;)
-- 
Iain Buchanan <iaindb at netspace dot net dot au>

Utility is when you have one telephone, luxury is when you have two,
opulence is when you have three -- and paradise is when you have none.
		-- Doug Larson

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Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[Eric Bliss]

On Wednesday 11 January 2006 03:06 pm, Iain Buchanan wrote:
> > > I think once we've got to the stage of UK (and AU) vs US spelling, I can
> > > invoke "Godwin's Law"[1] hereby ending the discussion completely and
> > > immediately ;)
> > > 
> > > [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
> > 
> 
> I took the spelling of words as being a "good enough" reason to invoke
> Godwin's Law, and hence posted it "after the comparison occurred".  I
> did not, in fact, raise the comparison of iou to ou just to raise
> Godwin's Law, and therefore my invocation should not be unsuccessful.
> 

Except Godwin's Law needs references to either Hitler or the Nazis in general 
to be invoked, and neither of those topics have been covered yet in this 
thread, you jack-booted, goose-stepping SS thug!!!  :-)

There.  NOW you can invoke Godwin's Law.  Although, to actually give this post 
SOME relevance to the original thread, will using Saviour Linux on your 
computer assure it of going to Electronic Heaven when it finally dies???  
0:-)

-- 
Eric Bliss
systems design and integration,
CreativeCow.Net
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Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 21:27:56 +0200, Uwe Thiem wrote:

> Uwe
> (who is good for throwing these Chinese solid state thin clients, I
> have got yesterday, out of the [wW]indows)

I hope you are referring to computer hardware and not undernourished
oriental customers :)


-- 
Neil Bothwick

LaForge [examining Data's open head]: "Waaaaaitaminute, Data!
What does 'Intel Inside' mean?"

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A New Linux Way

[Iain Buchanan]

On Wed, 2006-01-11 at 16:16 +0000, James wrote:
[a rant]
>  I have even offered to spent my limited financial resources to get
> talented people to develop specific software and make it open source so that
> it can be used freely, ...

Just add your offer to one of these sites.  [They may all be offering
the same bounties, I didn't look to long or hard]:

http://bountycounty.org/2005/12/gnome-bounty/
http://www.gnome.org/bounties/
http://swik.net/GNOME/GNOME+Bounties/GNOME+Bounty+-+Optimization/bohh?talk

> 'Savior'  is something Linux needs.

What does Linux need saving from?  IMHO Linux is the saviour, and
various people are doing a damn fine job of making it better.  Better is
of course different for everyone, so when I say "better", I mean Linux
is becoming an acceptable solution for a larger number of people,
instead of just geeks (like me...)

>  The simple solution is for perveyours of
> (Gentoo) linux to stop being 'bone-heads' and start being Entrepreneurs.

yeauch.  No thanks, the last thing I want to do is become an
entrepreneur.  I can't even spell it!  I just like doing work. I hate
all the managerial stuff that comes along.  I've been doing some of it
for the last few months and its made me want to move to where I can just
to some Real Work[tm] again.

> You make money, become affluent, you can write all the code and give it
> to whatever cause you want. What the youth of this list do not realize is
> their "Free time" combined with strong "programming skills" is capital.
> use it wisely, and more capital will flow your way.

If you say they don't realise it, you're assuming they want capital.

> Specifically, I work as an engineer, with machines, industrial processes,
> communications,

Me too.

> Yet Linux lacks a robust open source SCADA plan.

Because there isn't the money for some company to come in and push Linux
as being the Way To Go, sell lots of licenses, and make profits.  Linux
doesn't work that way - too many distributions, too much open source -
it scares people (people who want to invest).

But, if something you want in Linux doesn't exist yet, write it!

> I have offered money to any young, talented  person wanting to make
> a name for themselves by championing the cause to develop an open source
> SCADA system for (Gentoo) linux.  No takers. none. Why? This could become
> an excellent opportunity to teach software development, and migrate
> the industrial world to Gentoo.

We got sick of the pricey commercial SCADA packages that just didn't
work well enough, so we wrote our own.  We started with the
visualisation software, wrote our own data logging software, moved onto
a communications library (which we have running on a number of PLC's,
real time PC's, windows PC's, industrial controllers, etc) and we're
improving it all the time.  I'm sure many other companies have done the
same thing, but you just don't hear about it.  We've just nearly
completed a rewrite of the visualisation software, that allows people
(for now, just us, in the future, customers) to easily create their own
'screens' to view and control devices.

In fact, not long ago we tested our version of our visualisation and
communication software against a commercial SCADA package using Modbus
TCP over a satellite link.  Let me just say that Modbus was atrociously
unresponsive in comparison.  We've built our software to handle bad
connections, especially poor 9600bps modems to remote areas (but I
digress)... 

We've chosen Gentoo to go on our HMI PC's, as well as our industrial
controllers (Look back in the archives for some discussions on getting
Gentoo to fit in under 64Mb).

> My answer to Savior Linux is "put the check into the mail, and I'll be
> right there". 

I think it works the other way around.  You might have to do something
first, and then see if the check turns up.

> video controls and display of video needs to be added to the SCADA software.

Not there yet.  Don't know that we're heading in that direction
either...

So, do I want your check?  Probably not.  Will we ever release our
software to the public domain?  Maybe.  Will people use it?  Maybe not.
The fact is, we started as a small (2 person) company, started writing
our own software and hardware design, we were about 8 people when I
joined, continued with bigger and better software and hardware with less
components made by other people and more by us, and now we're over 30
people, and still moving.  I'm sure we're not the only success story in
the world.
-- 
Iain Buchanan <iaindb at netspace dot net dot au>

"MSDOS didn't get as bad as it is overnight -- it took over ten years
of careful development."
(By dmeggins@aix1.uottawa.ca)

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Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[Iain Buchanan]

On Wed, 2006-01-11 at 15:29 -0800, Eric Bliss wrote:
> On Wednesday 11 January 2006 03:06 pm, Iain Buchanan wrote:
> > > > I think once we've got to the stage of UK (and AU) vs US spelling, I can
> > > > invoke "Godwin's Law"[1] hereby ending the discussion completely and
> > > > immediately ;)
> > > > 
> > > > [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
> > > 
> > 
> > I took the spelling of words as being a "good enough" reason to invoke
> > Godwin's Law, and hence posted it "after the comparison occurred".  I
> > did not, in fact, raise the comparison of iou to ou just to raise
> > Godwin's Law, and therefore my invocation should not be unsuccessful.
> > 
> 
> Except Godwin's Law needs references to either Hitler or the Nazis

yeah, I took a very loose interpretation, and made the reference to
spelling a Close Enough hit.

>  in general 
> to be invoked, and neither of those topics have been covered yet in this 
> thread, you jack-booted, goose-stepping SS thug!!!  :-)

*lol* thanks for the laugh.

> There.  NOW you can invoke Godwin's Law.  Although, to actually give this post 
> SOME relevance to the original thread, will using Saviour Linux on your 
> computer assure it of going to Electronic Heaven when it finally dies???  

only if your computer accepts it's operating system (saviour linux) as
the only way ;)

> 0:-)

-- 
Iain Buchanan <iaindb at netspace dot net dot au>

Cats are intended to teach us that not everything in nature has a function.
		-- Garrison Keillor

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Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[Eric Bliss]

On Wednesday 11 January 2006 03:49 pm, Iain Buchanan wrote:
> On Wed, 2006-01-11 at 15:29 -0800, Eric Bliss wrote:
> > Although, to actually give this post 
> > SOME relevance to the original thread, will using Saviour Linux on your 
> > computer assure it of going to Electronic Heaven when it finally dies???  
> 
> only if your computer accepts it's operating system (saviour linux) as
> the only way ;)
> 

So a dual-boot system is still going to hell then?  :-)

Or what about embeded systems that are too small to be able to accept Saviour 
Linux?  Do they go to hell too?  Or what about computers that have already 
died, before Saviour Linux became available???

I've always seen computer users get religious about their OSes, but I think 
this is going to take it to a whole new level....

-- 
Eric Bliss
systems design and integration,
CreativeCow.Net
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[gentoo-user] Re: A New Linux Way

[James]

Iain Buchanan <iaindb <at> netspace.net.au> writes:


> Me too.
> 
> > Yet Linux lacks a robust open source SCADA plan.
> 
> Because there isn't the money for some company to come in and push Linux
> as being the Way To Go, sell lots of licenses, and make profits.  Linux
> doesn't work that way - too many distributions, too much open source -
> it scares people (people who want to invest).


Well that's why a SCADA plan on Linux is what's needed. It not that
it's linux, its that it is a robust SCADA on Linux. Then 
it can run on any (linux)distro. Gentoo just happens to be one of the
better choices. NO you do not have to sell the SCADA software. The money,
as IBM puts it is in the installation, consulting, customization, and
support of this proposed Linux based SCADA software. Young/new developers
would gain keen insight into how the software works, and could become
consultants to large organizations or use it for a small business.
The bottom line is the number of DSPs, micro controllers, CPU, FPGA
and many other sorts of processors are getting 'connected'. Sooner
or later the collective Linux community is going to have to address
massive machine control. Technical persons will be managing tens of 
thousands of processors, via computer, and consumers and other users
will not be able to surf thru thousands of vendor supplied 
software applications. For exammple, just go and try to find
your copy of a manual to something electrical you purchased more
than 3 years ago. Chances are (statistically) the manuals are
gone.

With operating systems just look at the amount of hardware that is
controllable via the kernel, compared to 5 years ago. We are building
many, many more electrical devices and it sure would be much simpler
to develop software as a management systems approach for thousands
of different devices, as opposed to getting the latest vendor
supplied application happy with yet another device.

> But, if something you want in Linux doesn't exist yet, write it!

That's the whole point. Why should lots of individuals and small companies
spin their own SCADA software package for linux? Why not get a few
top developers to develop a SCADA package for linux, then many, many
small companies can make money migrating companies with Microsoft
base SCADA to Linux Based SCADA, then  there is money to develop the
SCADA package further. Once the LINUX SCADA system is organized,
many other folks could contribute.
 
> > I have offered money to any young, talented  person wanting to make
> > a name for themselves by championing the cause to develop an open source
> > SCADA system for (Gentoo) linux.  No takers. none. Why? This could become
> > an excellent opportunity to teach software development, and migrate
> > the industrial world to Gentoo.
> 
> We got sick of the pricey commercial SCADA packages that just didn't
> work well enough, so we wrote our own.  We started with the
> visualisation software, wrote our own data logging software, moved onto
> a communications library (which we have running on a number of PLC's,
> real time PC's, windows PC's, industrial controllers, etc) and we're
> improving it all the time.  I'm sure many other companies have done the
> same thing, but you just don't hear about it.  We've just nearly
> completed a rewrite of the visualisation software, that allows people
> (for now, just us, in the future, customers) to easily create their own
> 'screens' to view and control devices.

Yes, but with hundreds of different PLCs and other devices, wouldn't it
make more sense to develop drivers once and a unified SCADA package
for linux that is widely used and supported?  Imagine if every company
wrote their own MTA or web browser.... what a waste of talent.

> In fact, not long ago we tested our version of our visualisation and
> communication software against a commercial SCADA package using Modbus
> TCP over a satellite link.  Let me just say that Modbus was atrociously
> unresponsive in comparison.  We've built our software to handle bad
> connections, especially poor 9600bps modems to remote areas (but I
> digress)... 

> We've chosen Gentoo to go on our HMI PC's, as well as our industrial
> controllers (Look back in the archives for some discussions on getting
> Gentoo to fit in under 64Mb).

Which/what controller hardware runs Gentoo?

> > My answer to Savior Linux is "put the check into the mail, and I'll be
> > right there". 

> I think it works the other way around.  You might have to do something
> first, and then see if the check turns up.

No, I think you missed the point. The original author is offering
vapor-financing. I'm willing to finance a serious SCADA development
effort, particularly in the early stages with an
 open source public license.

> > video controls and display of video needs to be added to the SCADA software.

> Not there yet.  Don't know that we're heading in that direction
> either...

Well let's consider an example, forget intrusion (physical) detection
as it's obvious. Consider a very large pump station pulling water
out of a lake or river. It has backwash screens, which need to be
'pulsed' periodically with large volumes of pressurized water and/or
air. It's a good idea to have a video camera on the pump intake screens
to prevent boaters from getting hurt, if they stray into a restricted
area. Another example: a young technician is troubleshooting an equipment
problem, and you are trying to help remotely. It's sure nice if you can
see the equipment and problem....

> So, do I want your check?  Probably not.  Will we ever release our
> software to the public domain?  Maybe.  Will people use it?  Maybe not.
> The fact is, we started as a small (2 person) company, started writing
> our own software and hardware design, we were about 8 people when I
> joined, continued with bigger and better software and hardware with less
> components made by other people and more by us, and now we're over 30
> people, and still moving.  I'm sure we're not the only success story in
> the world.

That's great. And everyone that took that approach are now employees
of GE, Invensys or Microsoft, in the windoz world. NOt to mention that
if a company only had to build hardware and sell it, knowing that
there was a well define development approach to getting their hardware
supported by a very large SCADA package, it would tremendously lower
the cost for small businesses. 

Just look at how OpenOffice is used by linux folks to deal with a common
document  format problem. Could you imagine if everyone wanted to develop their
own solution? Futhermore, as the amount of hardware in the world increases,
so does the amount of vendor supplied software. Wouldn't it be nice
if there was a large, robust Linux software package that was available,
so when a small company wanted to develop a new product, it could easily
be supported from a well know software package? After a while the larger
companies would join in, as customers ask if their hardware will be
support in XXX-SCADA.

A paradigm shift, my friend, a real paradigm shift is what I'm talking
about.

Thanks for the comments,
James

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gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[Uwe Thiem]

On 12 January 2006 01:35, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 21:27:56 +0200, Uwe Thiem wrote:
> > Uwe
> > (who is good for throwing these Chinese solid state thin clients, I
> > have got yesterday, out of the [wW]indows)
>
> I hope you are referring to computer hardware and not undernourished
> oriental customers :)

It's hardware, alright. And I could just confirm with the manufacturers that 
there, indeed, were two bugs in those thin clients.

Uwe

-- 
Unix is sexy:
who | grep -i blonde | date
cd ~; unzip; touch; strip; finger
mount; gasp; yes; uptime; umount
sleep
-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[Ernie Schroder]

On Thursday 12 January 2006 05:14, a tiny voice compelled Uwe Thiem to write:

> It's hardware, alright. And I could just confirm with the manufacturers
> that there, indeed, were two bugs in those thin clients.
>
some  penicillin should take care of that
-- 
Regards, Ernie
-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A New Linux Way

[Justin Hart]

While I appreciate a good pitch, I actually think that what awakened
the list so mightily is that someone brazenly posted to a Linux user
list with a business pitch with no business plan attached.

I think that most people who've had at least a brush with professional
software engineering read such a statement as if it were steel wool
scraping their eyeballs.  If they've encountered such a business
situation, they know, it's not so much that it's a scam, it's that
they would suffer a lot less if it was just a scam.

Justin

On 1/11/06, James <wireless@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> Petr Kocmid <Petr.Kocmid <at> project-bhairava.org> writes:
>
>
> > On Tuesday 10 January 2006 04:40, Mark Stewart wrote:
> > > Hello fellow Linux Users!
> > > We here at SaviourLinux.com desire to create a united universal way.
> > > Please visit the website for more information, but here is the purpose:
>
> > You missed the target audience. Here at gentoo there are mostly hardcore linux
> > geeks, and we already have "universal way". You do not make a fortune here
> > with a scam like this.
>
> (Splash--WAKE UP CALL)
>
> This thread has generated much noise, because it invokes the very antithesis
> of many things we hold dear: Irrelevance of Microsoft one day, ubiquitous
> secure and distributed computing, fantastic multimedia influenced and
> controlled by the little people of world etc etc....
>
> It has generated so much concern (deeply disturbing responses) because we all
> need to earn a living and it'd be nice if we could do it, being perveyours
> of linux (Gentoo specifically) yet we lack initiative.
>
> I have often talk about preparing Gentoo for the masses, with little collective
> interest. I have even offered to spent my limited financial resources to get
> talented people to develop specific software and make it open source so that
> it can be used freely, available in source code and also open to
> entrepreneurial endeavors, much like the BSDish licenses. I personally think
> all of the hype over licenses are a waste of bandwidth. Who gives a shit,
> statistically. If something is great everybody is going to use it, and
> it's associated technical perveyours should make money signing autographs.
>
> 'Savior'  is something Linux needs. The simple solution is for perveyours of
> (Gentoo) linux to stop being 'bone-heads' and start being Entrepreneurs.
> You make money, become affluent, you can write all the code and give it
> to whatever cause you want. What the youth of this list do not realize is
> their "Free time" combined with strong "programming skills" is capital.
> use it wisely, and more capital will flow your way.
>
> Specifically, I work as an engineer, with machines, industrial processes,
> communications, and too dam many lawyers and politicians. Machines on this
> earth are mostly controlled by SCADA systems: Supervisor Controls And Data
> Aquistion (sounds sexy huh?) Currenlty MicroSuck dominates the space, but,
> it's lack of robust security, has created a huge vacuum, highlighted by
> activities of 9/11. Futhermore in the near future, there will be at least
> 100 machines (micro P with connnectivity) per humanoid and the gap will
> only increase. AKA, the net of the future belongs to machines. Just look
> at the number of peripherals (machines) we have today and the pending
> explosion of every electro-mechanical device in your home, auto, work
> and leisure activities, having 'connectivity' in the not too distant
> future. Yet Linux lacks a robust open source SCADA plan. Many attemps
> have been made, but, most have been diverted to the traditional business
> model (come work for me and I'll give you a paycheck). Now is the time
> to develop software so that all electrical devices can be seemlessly
> managed and controlled. Whe have power over ethernet (802.af) and
> ethernet over powerlines, not to mention Rf chipsets that are shockingly
> low in price. The current vendor track is build a new device,
> write new software, and add it to the thousands of applications that
> exist. The future paradyne could be: Develop a robust Linux SCADA software
> package, make money migrating industry and consumers to it, and write
> device drivers for any product someone builds. That way the cost of
> software development is born of the open source community, and local
> entrepreneurs can spin hardware with local manufacturers to build
> successful 'regional products'. Gentoos get new toys, many of which
> are built by people they know....
>
> I have offered money to any young, talented  person wanting to make
> a name for themselves by championing the cause to develop an open source
> SCADA system for (Gentoo) linux.  No takers. none. Why? This could become
> an excellent opportunity to teach software development, and migrate
> the industrial world to Gentoo.
>
> Leads me to beleive that everyone has too much cash or are scared to 'step up'.
> My programming skills have atrofied (like my spelling skills) over time.
> Furthermore, I'd be most interested in installing this SCADA system somewhere
> and generating attention as to what promise Gentoo holds for the future.
> The more of an Entrepreneur I become the less time I have to stay current or
> maintain my existing skill sets. Youth provides opportunity for greatness. I'm
> willing to finance greatness. There is no greater need than to develop a
> (Gentoo) based SCADA system. EVERYONE, except the commmercial SCADA vendors is
> very, very tired of MicroSuck in the Industrial space....
>
> Then along comes this "Savior Thread" where folks are almost interested
> in giving away their personal capital in the pursuit of foolishness.
>
> My answer to Savior Linux is "put the check into the mail, and I'll be
> right there". But, I'm willing to send a check to someone that this list
> agrees with, has the BALLS and BRAINS to build a SCADA software package
> for Gentoo. I just want a licence that encourages entrepreneurial
> implementation of the software, more akin to BSDishness..... That way
> folks can build hardware, sell it in small volume, make a living,
> and the greater gentoo community becomes greater, because we have
> the newest/coolest hardware toys, and the software is part of a single,
> very cool package that is easy to maintain. Under this scheme, developing
> device drivers would become routine for Gentoo Folks. Hardware guys
> could focus on hardware and gets their drivers for free!
>
> If you are unfamilar with SCADA:
> http://www.comedi.org/doc
> http://www.modcomp.com/scada/scada_app.html
> http://www.rtaautomation.com/modbustcp
> http://www.jffnms.org
>
> The rub is ( i use to love the rub: in engineering school that's where
> some old, nasty bastard challenged the students to actually do something
> with what we were learning)
> video controls and display of video needs to be added to the SCADA software.
> I think an open API for rapid addition of machines and  hardware beyond
> that of PLC (programmable logic controllers) is important too.
> Think of it as SCADA on steroids.
>
> I'm not rich [(3) kids; beautiful, nagging wife and a boat in disrepair];
> yet this is something that I'm will to spend my money on, for the
> benfit of the wider Gentoo community.
>
> Any takers?
>
>
> sincerely,
> James Horton, PE
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>


--
Justin W. Hart

-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A New Linux Way

[Justin Hart]

Also of note, it looks as though they took down the site.  He probably
read a handful of threads like this :-(  I guess he'll learn his
lesson and come back all the stronger for it.

Justin

On 1/13/06, Justin Hart <justinhart@gmail.com> wrote:
> While I appreciate a good pitch, I actually think that what awakened
> the list so mightily is that someone brazenly posted to a Linux user
> list with a business pitch with no business plan attached.
>
> I think that most people who've had at least a brush with professional
> software engineering read such a statement as if it were steel wool
> scraping their eyeballs.  If they've encountered such a business
> situation, they know, it's not so much that it's a scam, it's that
> they would suffer a lot less if it was just a scam.
>
> Justin
>
> On 1/11/06, James <wireless@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> > Petr Kocmid <Petr.Kocmid <at> project-bhairava.org> writes:
> >
> >
> > > On Tuesday 10 January 2006 04:40, Mark Stewart wrote:
> > > > Hello fellow Linux Users!
> > > > We here at SaviourLinux.com desire to create a united universal way.
> > > > Please visit the website for more information, but here is the purpose:
> >
> > > You missed the target audience. Here at gentoo there are mostly hardcore linux
> > > geeks, and we already have "universal way". You do not make a fortune here
> > > with a scam like this.
> >
> > (Splash--WAKE UP CALL)
> >
> > This thread has generated much noise, because it invokes the very antithesis
> > of many things we hold dear: Irrelevance of Microsoft one day, ubiquitous
> > secure and distributed computing, fantastic multimedia influenced and
> > controlled by the little people of world etc etc....
> >
> > It has generated so much concern (deeply disturbing responses) because we all
> > need to earn a living and it'd be nice if we could do it, being perveyours
> > of linux (Gentoo specifically) yet we lack initiative.
> >
> > I have often talk about preparing Gentoo for the masses, with little collective
> > interest. I have even offered to spent my limited financial resources to get
> > talented people to develop specific software and make it open source so that
> > it can be used freely, available in source code and also open to
> > entrepreneurial endeavors, much like the BSDish licenses. I personally think
> > all of the hype over licenses are a waste of bandwidth. Who gives a shit,
> > statistically. If something is great everybody is going to use it, and
> > it's associated technical perveyours should make money signing autographs.
> >
> > 'Savior'  is something Linux needs. The simple solution is for perveyours of
> > (Gentoo) linux to stop being 'bone-heads' and start being Entrepreneurs.
> > You make money, become affluent, you can write all the code and give it
> > to whatever cause you want. What the youth of this list do not realize is
> > their "Free time" combined with strong "programming skills" is capital.
> > use it wisely, and more capital will flow your way.
> >
> > Specifically, I work as an engineer, with machines, industrial processes,
> > communications, and too dam many lawyers and politicians. Machines on this
> > earth are mostly controlled by SCADA systems: Supervisor Controls And Data
> > Aquistion (sounds sexy huh?) Currenlty MicroSuck dominates the space, but,
> > it's lack of robust security, has created a huge vacuum, highlighted by
> > activities of 9/11. Futhermore in the near future, there will be at least
> > 100 machines (micro P with connnectivity) per humanoid and the gap will
> > only increase. AKA, the net of the future belongs to machines. Just look
> > at the number of peripherals (machines) we have today and the pending
> > explosion of every electro-mechanical device in your home, auto, work
> > and leisure activities, having 'connectivity' in the not too distant
> > future. Yet Linux lacks a robust open source SCADA plan. Many attemps
> > have been made, but, most have been diverted to the traditional business
> > model (come work for me and I'll give you a paycheck). Now is the time
> > to develop software so that all electrical devices can be seemlessly
> > managed and controlled. Whe have power over ethernet (802.af) and
> > ethernet over powerlines, not to mention Rf chipsets that are shockingly
> > low in price. The current vendor track is build a new device,
> > write new software, and add it to the thousands of applications that
> > exist. The future paradyne could be: Develop a robust Linux SCADA software
> > package, make money migrating industry and consumers to it, and write
> > device drivers for any product someone builds. That way the cost of
> > software development is born of the open source community, and local
> > entrepreneurs can spin hardware with local manufacturers to build
> > successful 'regional products'. Gentoos get new toys, many of which
> > are built by people they know....
> >
> > I have offered money to any young, talented  person wanting to make
> > a name for themselves by championing the cause to develop an open source
> > SCADA system for (Gentoo) linux.  No takers. none. Why? This could become
> > an excellent opportunity to teach software development, and migrate
> > the industrial world to Gentoo.
> >
> > Leads me to beleive that everyone has too much cash or are scared to 'step up'.
> > My programming skills have atrofied (like my spelling skills) over time.
> > Furthermore, I'd be most interested in installing this SCADA system somewhere
> > and generating attention as to what promise Gentoo holds for the future.
> > The more of an Entrepreneur I become the less time I have to stay current or
> > maintain my existing skill sets. Youth provides opportunity for greatness. I'm
> > willing to finance greatness. There is no greater need than to develop a
> > (Gentoo) based SCADA system. EVERYONE, except the commmercial SCADA vendors is
> > very, very tired of MicroSuck in the Industrial space....
> >
> > Then along comes this "Savior Thread" where folks are almost interested
> > in giving away their personal capital in the pursuit of foolishness.
> >
> > My answer to Savior Linux is "put the check into the mail, and I'll be
> > right there". But, I'm willing to send a check to someone that this list
> > agrees with, has the BALLS and BRAINS to build a SCADA software package
> > for Gentoo. I just want a licence that encourages entrepreneurial
> > implementation of the software, more akin to BSDishness..... That way
> > folks can build hardware, sell it in small volume, make a living,
> > and the greater gentoo community becomes greater, because we have
> > the newest/coolest hardware toys, and the software is part of a single,
> > very cool package that is easy to maintain. Under this scheme, developing
> > device drivers would become routine for Gentoo Folks. Hardware guys
> > could focus on hardware and gets their drivers for free!
> >
> > If you are unfamilar with SCADA:
> > http://www.comedi.org/doc
> > http://www.modcomp.com/scada/scada_app.html
> > http://www.rtaautomation.com/modbustcp
> > http://www.jffnms.org
> >
> > The rub is ( i use to love the rub: in engineering school that's where
> > some old, nasty bastard challenged the students to actually do something
> > with what we were learning)
> > video controls and display of video needs to be added to the SCADA software.
> > I think an open API for rapid addition of machines and  hardware beyond
> > that of PLC (programmable logic controllers) is important too.
> > Think of it as SCADA on steroids.
> >
> > I'm not rich [(3) kids; beautiful, nagging wife and a boat in disrepair];
> > yet this is something that I'm will to spend my money on, for the
> > benfit of the wider Gentoo community.
> >
> > Any takers?
> >
> >
> > sincerely,
> > James Horton, PE
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Justin W. Hart
>


--
Justin W. Hart

-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A New Linux Way

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 06:14:57 +0000, Justin Hart wrote:

> Also of note, it looks as though they took down the site.

Yes, it now just says 

"Saviour Linux
    comming soon!"

I wonder when the distro will include a spell checker...


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Top Oxymorons Number 41: Good grief

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A New Linux Way

[Dale]

On Friday 13 January 2006 07:34, Mattias Merilai wrote:
> Neil Bothwick wrote:
> >Yes, it now just says
> >
> >"Saviour Linux
> >    comming soon!"
> >
> >I wonder when the distro will include a spell checker...
>
> echo "sci-fi/saviour-linux spell" >> /etc/portage/package.use && emerge
> saviour-linux


Why not:

emerge -C saviour-linux

That should get rid of it.  If it tries to come back again:

echo "sci-fi/saviour-linux spell" >> /etc/portage/package.mask

should do it.

Dale
:-)
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A New Linux Way

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 13:34:00 +0000, Mattias Merilai wrote:

> echo "sci-fi/saviour-linux spell" >> /etc/portage/package.use && emerge 
> saviour-linux

LOL!

Are you using the sci-fi category because there isn't one for fantasy? :)


-- 
Neil Bothwick

LISP: Lots of Infuriating & Silly Parentheses

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A New Linux Way

[Mattias Merilai]

Neil Bothwick wrote:

>Yes, it now just says 
>
>"Saviour Linux
>    comming soon!"
>
>I wonder when the distro will include a spell checker...
>
>
>  
>
echo "sci-fi/saviour-linux spell" >> /etc/portage/package.use && emerge 
saviour-linux
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A New Linux Way

[Iain Buchanan]

On Fri, 2006-01-13 at 13:34 +0000, Mattias Merilai wrote:

> echo "sci-fi/saviour-linux spell" >> /etc/portage/package.use && emerge 
> saviour-linux

I think the devs moved it to "apps-vapourware/saviour-linux".
-- 
Iain Buchanan <iaindb at netspace dot net dot au>

Never buy what you do not want because it is cheap; it will be dear to you.
		-- Thomas Jefferson

-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A New Linux Way

[Mark Shields]

Can we let this thread die?  Please?


On 1/13/06, Iain Buchanan <iaindb@netspace.net.au> wrote:
> On Fri, 2006-01-13 at 13:34 +0000, Mattias Merilai wrote:
>
> > echo "sci-fi/saviour-linux spell" >> /etc/portage/package.use && emerge
> > saviour-linux
>
> I think the devs moved it to "apps-vapourware/saviour-linux".
> --
> Iain Buchanan <iaindb at netspace dot net dot au>
>
> Never buy what you do not want because it is cheap; it will be dear to you.
>                 -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>


--
- Mark Shields

-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A New Linux Way

[Jorge Almeida]

On Sat, 14 Jan 2006, Mark Shields wrote:

> Can we let this thread die?  Please?
>
Why? Can you remember a funnier one, ever?
-- 
Jorge Almeida
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A New Linux Way

[Robin]

HE is just a party pooper :) j/k
On 1/14/06, Jorge Almeida <jalmeida@math.ist.utl.pt> wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Jan 2006, Mark Shields wrote:
>
> > Can we let this thread die?  Please?
> >
> Why? Can you remember a funnier one, ever?
> --
> Jorge Almeida
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>

-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A New Linux Way

[Ernie Schroder]

On Saturday 14 January 2006 00:38, a tiny voice compelled Mark Shields to 
write:
> Can we let this thread die?  Please?


I'm with you, but I fear it will come back around Easter.
-- 
Regards, Ernie
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A New Linux Way

[Mark Shields]

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No, I can't remember a funnier one, but this thread is so far off-topic and
the parent poster never replied anyways.

On 1/14/06, Ernie Schroder <schroder@ntplx.net> wrote:
>
> On Saturday 14 January 2006 00:38, a tiny voice compelled Mark Shields to
> write:
> > Can we let this thread die?  Please?
>
>
> I'm with you, but I fear it will come back around Easter.
> --
> Regards, Ernie
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>


--
- Mark Shields

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A New Linux Way

[Jorge Almeida]

On Sat, 14 Jan 2006, Mark Shields wrote:

> the parent poster never replied anyways.
>
Yes he did, but his reply came disguised as a new thread "Sorry about
the spam". The contents of which didn't suggest repentance, BTW.

Cheers,

Jorge Almeida
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A New Linux Way

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 00:38:59 -0500, Mark Shields wrote:

> Can we let this thread die?  Please?

It will die when people stop posting to it. Posting to it yourself only
serves to prolong it.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Love is grand. Divorce is a few grand more.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A New Linux Way

[Justin Hart]

That was the worst knee-slapper ever.

Justin

On 1/14/06, Ernie Schroder <schroder@ntplx.net> wrote:
> On Saturday 14 January 2006 00:38, a tiny voice compelled Mark Shields to
> write:
> > Can we let this thread die?  Please?
>
>
> I'm with you, but I fear it will come back around Easter.
> --
> Regards, Ernie
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>


--
Justin W. Hart

-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Sorry about the spam

[Justin Hart]

There's a standard too, it's called posix, or Unix, but nobody uses it ;-)

Justin

On 1/11/06, Daniel da Veiga <danieldaveiga@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 1/11/06, Mark Stewart <saviour@saviourlinux.com> wrote:
> > Really, I should have thought more about the first e-mail (oops).
> > Thank you for all your comments!
> >
> > Here is what the goal is (as of now):
> > - To have some kind of useful standard among the many distributions.
> > - To compensate those who need or want compensation for their hard
> > work.  (The laborer is worthy of his/her wages.)
> > - Community moderated, no controlling overhead like Microsoft.
> > - Whatever they release will be completely free software.  No strings.
> >
> > "United" means we help each other develop and improve Linux
> > software--separately.  So no united.  That's optional for now.
> >
> > How can people be interested?
> > - It is just a fund paid by the community for the community
> > - Overhead will be minimal, if anything.
> > - People are already interested in Linux, and they would like to donate
> > to a worthy cause. (Yes, this does mean that we would have to be worthy)
> >
> > What's the point?
> > - Make Linux better
> > - Increase Linux users (Microsoft users might convert)
> > - Better the community
> > - Pay people who deserve it
> >
> >
> > Really, we could make Gentoo the official distribution of Saviour
> > Linux.  Personally, I think it is the best.
>
> I guess you just named Saviour a project to fund a distribution, if I
> got what you mean, anyway, quotting Gentoo.org:
>
> "The Gentoo Foundation has been created to provide financial
> caretaking, juridical protection and oversee general Gentoo
> development to keep it in line with the Social Contract."
>
> We already have that... In fact, many of the aspects of what you say
> Saviour would be already exists and are at heavy development as we
> type, and its called, Gentoo Linux ;)
>
> >
> > Mark Stewart
> >
> > --
> > gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Daniel da Veiga
> Computer Operator - RS - Brazil
> -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> Version: 3.1
> GCM/IT/P/O d-? s:- a? C++$ UBLA++ P+ L++ E--- W+++$ N o+ K- w O M- V-
> PS PE Y PGP- t+ 5 X+++ R+* tv b+ DI+++ D+ G+ e h+ r+ y++
> ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
>
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>


--
Justin W. Hart

-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[Joshua Schmidlkofer]

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On 1/11/06, Eric Bliss <eric@creativecow.net> wrote:
>
> On Wednesday 11 January 2006 03:06 pm, Iain Buchanan wrote:
> > > > I think once we've got to the stage of UK (and AU) vs US spelling, I
> can
> > > > invoke "Godwin's Law"[1] hereby ending the discussion completely and
> > > > immediately ;)
> > > >
> > > > [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
> > >
> >
> > I took the spelling of words as being a "good enough" reason to invoke
> > Godwin's Law, and hence posted it "after the comparison occurred".  I
> > did not, in fact, raise the comparison of iou to ou just to raise
> > Godwin's Law, and therefore my invocation should not be unsuccessful.
> >
>
> Except Godwin's Law needs references to either Hitler or the Nazis in
> general
> to be invoked, and neither of those topics have been covered yet in this
> thread, you jack-booted, goose-stepping SS thug!!!  :-)
>
> There.  NOW you can invoke Godwin's Law.  Although, to actually give this
> post
> SOME relevance to the original thread, will using Saviour Linux on your
> computer assure it of going to Electronic Heaven when it finally dies???
> 0:-)
>
> --
> Eric Bliss
> systems design and integration,
> CreativeCow.Net
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>
*sigh* We clearly need to fix Wikipedia - you cannot 'invoke' Godwins law.
It's more of an observation.  Godwins law is like a 'law' of physics.  When
two planets crash into each other no one 'invokes' the law.  It's two
natural forces, beyond the control of any one person interacting.  He was
merely noting the nature of the universe, not creating a new piece of
Intar-web legislation.

So, apart from me pretending to be bent out of shape, that is all true.
Thus, ´invoking' Godwins law is like saying, 'Ahh, the water is 100C, I
invoke boiling!'.  Saying something had no perceivable effect on the
situation.

=)

heh,

  Joshua

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Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[Nick Rout]

I haven't been brave enough to read all of this thread, but as we seem
to have gotten onto the topic of spelling, has anyone noticed that the
saviour linux website now consists of:

"Saviour Linux
comming soon!"

copied and pasted, complete with the misspelling of the third word LOL.


On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 10:10:10 -0800
Joshua Schmidlkofer wrote:

[something pertaining to Godwin's law]
-- 
Nick Rout <nick@rout.co.nz>

-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] A New Linux Way

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Tue, 17 Jan 2006 17:07:23 +1300, Nick Rout wrote:

> I haven't been brave enough to read all of this thread, but as we seem
> to have gotten onto the topic of spelling, has anyone noticed that the
> saviour linux website now consists of:
> 
> "Saviour Linux
> comming soon!"

Yes,last week - hence my post about it not including a spell checker :)

You don't need bravery to read this thread, just a sense of humo{,u}r.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Boss spelled backwards is "double-SOB"

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[gentoo-user] Re: A New Linux Way

[Robin]

On 1/17/06, Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Jan 2006 17:07:23 +1300, Nick Rout wrote:
>
> > I haven't been brave enough to read all of this thread, but as we seem
> > to have gotten onto the topic of spelling, has anyone noticed that the
> > saviour linux website now consists of:
> >
> > "Saviour Linux
> > comming soon!"
>
> Yes,last week - hence my post about it not including a spell checker :)
>
> You don't need bravery to read this thread, just a sense of humo{,u}r.
>
>
> --
> Neil Bothwick
>
> Boss spelled backwards is "double-SOB"
>
>

-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-user] Re: A New Linux Way

[Robin]

What are you talking about ?  I was brave enough to read the entire
thread.  And it is well worth it, just for the laugh :)

On 1/17/06, Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Jan 2006 17:07:23 +1300, Nick Rout wrote:
>
> > I haven't been brave enough to read all of this thread, but as we seem
> > to have gotten onto the topic of spelling, has anyone noticed that the
> > saviour linux website now consists of:
> >
> > "Saviour Linux
> > comming soon!"
>
> Yes,last week - hence my post about it not including a spell checker :)
>
> You don't need bravery to read this thread, just a sense of humo{,u}r.
>
>
> --
> Neil Bothwick
>
> Boss spelled backwards is "double-SOB"
>
>

-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Sorry about the spam

[Kumar Golap]

Questions:

1) why should i contribute to your fund instead of directly
contributing to the funds or companies that maintain the linux
distribution that i use.

2) There is already a linux standard base www.linuxbase.org...why
another one that nobody follows

3) how can your overhead be minimal or nothing ?...the best charitable
organizations have 20% overhead... zero overhead implies contribute
directly without going through third parties which you are..

4)  better the community ? with what.... better human beings ?

5) what's the criteria of who deserves to be paid by the money you collect ?

Cheers,

K


On 1/10/06, Mark Stewart <saviour@saviourlinux.com> wrote:
> Really, I should have thought more about the first e-mail (oops).
> Thank you for all your comments!
>
> Here is what the goal is (as of now):
> - To have some kind of useful standard among the many distributions.
> - To compensate those who need or want compensation for their hard
> work.  (The laborer is worthy of his/her wages.)
> - Community moderated, no controlling overhead like Microsoft.
> - Whatever they release will be completely free software.  No strings.
>
> "United" means we help each other develop and improve Linux
> software--separately.  So no united.  That's optional for now.
>
> How can people be interested?
> - It is just a fund paid by the community for the community
> - Overhead will be minimal, if anything.
> - People are already interested in Linux, and they would like to donate
> to a worthy cause. (Yes, this does mean that we would have to be worthy)
>
> What's the point?
> - Make Linux better
> - Increase Linux users (Microsoft users might convert)
> - Better the community
> - Pay people who deserve it
>
>
> Really, we could make Gentoo the official distribution of Saviour
> Linux.  Personally, I think it is the best.
>
> Mark Stewart
>
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>

-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list