From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7836D158042 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2024 16:49:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2D6ECE0829; Thu, 14 Nov 2024 16:49:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-yw1-x112b.google.com (mail-yw1-x112b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::112b]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D9918E077A for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2024 16:48:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-yw1-x112b.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-6e2e41bd08bso10895577b3.2 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2024 08:48:59 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1731602939; x=1732207739; darn=lists.gentoo.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:mime-version:user-agent:date :message-id:autocrypt:from:references:to:subject:from:to:cc:subject :date:message-id:reply-to; bh=bkEkihs7Fl19qN5unr3+v7tSJtbU7I/IGjt+8savmMc=; b=N8CcqSdS20ueYfNaGHd1BL+kTRNse+vONOyheGvDBDCduA8Lw3ERbLOyRoLpZiacnF KVfl2ua70ELPfEEHJOYKVx9xpE0fdjPw3UwGkJ/ZUmebne7ZAyPG3QDXngTsLW6stKFp 6tR8SiVA9c8zjEf9YQVac5C7Jl1CQSS/WC7HAgPm9NTzQp2ZRA+S7ikFy7nSuXYqWw8x XItDT9RgeFDB80tZ47uXFeYvKAAmwp4cpTUdEQUKBBfeoAGzyPPgOGvMasB56bzECgMR nvnOG9RlJXyC3hx+j7nSvelhQcWJ+qrj/T1/HNTaGSxSZW7OiQKF2Y6Czpgxv84rTDSu gYow== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1731602939; x=1732207739; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:mime-version:user-agent:date :message-id:autocrypt:from:references:to:subject:x-gm-message-state :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=bkEkihs7Fl19qN5unr3+v7tSJtbU7I/IGjt+8savmMc=; b=bx4LT0rVMOTz04TyXZZU7SCxtKb1tTO2oAHr0SfTbOv1M2qmk3oKZ+BeMWfHYrpSM6 dwiYE0LgofBGcr/UURB+fi9w5Zydqrgf8qq8SziwzZRzmnRIzCNmFNALjmWxwBRVs7qb 47Y8p3hz8Nvd2JnvkDEvAbN6HIaOmXULsOTX6eiWnkyjtv7QlUnwISvws27X7zrT0vus BupWzoBf2OVskXoxuYOxX3X3vPQZJ656KLic/hvdPLzKTAVdDbhwJwwi5qasUV0OwwFY DcyPJ0zElBFtEUHvQXf/FGDqtrPcq8oSh8g+RukgNZITMyz+YfFJMwrVtxd41aluYltb 42sA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwCxzduwTEL5vWVrcBKgbjK/jNVSYWf+7+TXJVTbhVxiDL09K3J jb6jFMSiYFo/TLLG9ol5K1qSMuviLS1uc21k0Jnq1Q1eJhH93+YI X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEccqRltbvtnZMzOImfXQolD1S1igBGenzZAicuImwgAmjG4LSUQK9goXi+g0VWe7BBKws0ZA== X-Received: by 2002:a05:690c:63c8:b0:6dd:b983:8563 with SMTP id 00721157ae682-6ee43360fdcmr31931617b3.14.1731602938904; Thu, 14 Nov 2024 08:48:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.8.8.10] ([92.119.19.11]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 00721157ae682-6ee444132fdsm3096917b3.81.2024.11.14.08.48.57 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 14 Nov 2024 08:48:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Seagate hard drives with dual actuators. To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org References: <2a0a3dca-67b8-47a6-9331-d6f2899267fb@youngman.org.uk> From: Dale Autocrypt: addr=rdalek1967@gmail.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBGFSciYBEADcEGMyJBSuavKO/XKUVvgkxck7Nl8Iuu8N2lcnRji/rSKg5c1Acix1ll9i oW8JBCHwvn0+Xy60BvEsqcup3YSHw5STl/bR1ePEehtnYrg8FdjdS91+B805RfnKMm69rFVI wLSBHQrSG1yxHd8CloWoEdhmVtP24buajbh114bgXd9ahtpZrCVMrWdWYUg2mEXguGV5uNAh Rf8SWxDNc79w24JxsV34a8niMUYMjzWr0rafIbzk732X38vGjVMLo/2mMpkbp9mPp++LHoY+ 0Pet8zxxdXPJSCd475kza1AD+hhSyBZXB9yknYWgyY3cZe1rGmooJSi2KX4QxO7npwLThcO1 be6KKRkd35+Fi/a1BzVOHsZMiK/gcwxEFoMd27gir4ehaeHJfFXl+65w4hj0EsOZSxrJrm2C R50g5By2czSKP1bADEygFNpIJj51AR+wM88NImG2RPtlT2maYBzazvF05g65cdHXGp1C7W5P wwwKU2DgABB2t7N7z5A69LnryBRw4zUYDRRYLTYlBlYgg+xILm2c0OrBdxJgLJa7JE50Eo25 d3PFwt9J0gYvqy6sPFLl9So0sDg9zm0hKQtXOP5kgropUFGrNoJI+mjwF4rYLRBVzZwNAvlO OhEvHubBo3mEllv4x+FeptwXZxlk7gUsdqI8AxnFB8K9wi6FVQARAQABtBtEYWxlIDxyZGFs ZWsxOTY3QGdtYWlsLmNvbT6JAk4EEwEIADgCGyMFCwkIBwIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AW IQQSG1h01ruv/WNXc3Q3RqOgiQH1GwUCYVJy8gAKCRA3RqOgiQH1G+waEACeTZCt77jnRAmQ AV7otKuZekDWiLi3Eig8tj5ZJiCNSYA/hIxzmexRP0GMqjitcXK1iGwWcvMzzvIq30GAjIfB 4BR38cnXbtBa6fNewiT7QaZe/Hn6yBRldXNQypzbHy+/o27bUEy+oX4rE7etUgEHQAjuw7xz XFWg4tH1/KJvsOVY5upnWc5LdxYhsuQ3dQD4b22GsK0pOBDfb9PiirYM8eGKvrVuq4E/c75z lDDFhINl18lNZ9D0ZFL3IkTjHsAAqFH9uhnnEB8CWdHbBewPEfRaOhBUYWZ3Q8uTkmDgZT8q D9jlvLEdw7Nh2ApdxoepnI/4D+ql2Gr4DtH7SEPydr5gcf1Qr/2bXRb1hAYnIVcbncs/Bm3Z bkRKPVWMfE3Fusa+p5hMzixk0YysMaTHlc7mYRYAEZGnPMXnmcCbetwARU7A0yz1M1kCMOAQ Lsz8KH5kv3cRenMB6SFfjND2JfAK61H5TtnPq3L8noS2ZykRYxq9Nm3X64O1tJojIKBoZFr8 AwYNCvqC6puUyGMuzHPh7jPof8glfrrEKIYUvNPGMDoVX3IGetxh/9l6NcxgFA4JGoR+LS3C zmeNrwlllAe3OEUfKoWVQ+pagpSdM+8hHolaSda4Ys66Z3fCR4ZvcTqfhTAVskpqdXa4isAk 7vTcXu3L499ttywEp7rJTbkCDQRhUnImARAAncUdVhmtRr59zqpTUppKroQYlzR0jv8oa7DG K4gakTAT2N7evnI9wpssmzyVk8VEiLzhnFQ/Ol3FRt6hZCXDJt0clyHOyTfvz/MNFttWuZTc mLpSvmRR6VRjAH+Tz3Eam2xUw3PGuH97BcXQ3NnX3msv1UDxtxxBu6e2YrdeOhrCUSgzokcJ 98ChUNy934cgepPybAI12lSWqVFQ1aG7jExZfiUk+333fPSDbpKoZbTW5YJLXbycmW/C1IWL qYQyNjRWKaGoJtUWFhhmNiOQct7n90aKivNVPavmN+UQ9LlMaINtf9T6XCzLfogCFsulDCDJ 0yNQLDTurHaB4E71xoctgXmLLq9z1RQ0W2XiVAAOZQj6K3+d0AOUjDhCQ2QW8dUSq0ckkZXV DKVJOGS8Nhf2eIWIqRnP3AcUiiaiFGqUaVUmUAZ6h/oJmgghEu/1S+pcuUKU5i69+XCZ3hH2 Jzwzbf7K+FAIkOhCfHncF8i1N1pk00pOVykNnqHTfFo3qFusHt0ZWgXVnnn4pYdXqZNoDhvF BRE5Vm4k/k96Pw8HRx6Os6eFSRrlqGzRgqsu86FekxusXB9UGv4lJhtU/J+8MRWsh22K718s DbQnABicGKFz1qQlWvcf59oTByhLINJCBt1WXl+TzJDXepr3QSkqmK41dO9Hob97C9dMiK8A EQEAAYkCNgQYAQgAIAIbDBYhBBIbWHTWu6/9Y1dzdDdGo6CJAfUbBQJhUnLyAAoJEDdGo6CJ AfUbVHIQAKSWw620vPhR3A/njU2z77F3z/Jk+HTKdE3fIyWSWdkYN7CBFL0NguOMP30WZ+qE sJhZu7T5hf251MwQUUt27xlfnKYOmQs7CqONlXuXlGZI6WufrUjxNcVz+5gJsqvUWuuJWsgg sDmE92IBnfG/f81fPHWQyfr/SF4wYDMyoFp5xCCQpp1zB63iuFvvrhxBkEHzmbRtVDOhl0Xp BVEDR1w3QRACw9QJD/KM05Czv9JNQYlwinWO/OaQ9cMlUpKLgswUPg9IZ5vucxScfuAUA5uC B1jlAQ8ZPlVukBmbEv5RGOv+lpuEbA3YDMVtEeH4YMFbjt/+vH3Cr2vTbp5JlpByLburJEH0 WXZLUawEfUsZvVwpOuJK75vaa2HYXee+Cb3iCIzwfIfctdlqzUcbGRczlRNM59hpvj4z29Gh 3kAxVHItAYq54ikxQ9l4hQ8s9sLYPbX/WtcBxNX8crBSw0FLnmzGleVEtBHyqtt5CLzQNgrj GYWl1vKDUmRPw1CdZ1c+fMN9CY11jOM5B5ZnqZWfDeVYO2iJ5SuvTycChexCb8WYn1bdCBIo bBtga2RBXbVt4Mh9E4owsszefn51MwfjXxB20Fc5k3GU1AVpTCMs3ayYCzo0b2pvEvdjtDcA CYLEFPWgaFX9iQAM/CDfKvTtvgGWpqtCL2raq/mQoJEU Message-ID: <90cde15f-5ed8-ca09-2f16-8782d129df9f@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2024 10:48:56 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/91.0 SeaMonkey/2.53.19 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <2a0a3dca-67b8-47a6-9331-d6f2899267fb@youngman.org.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Archives-Salt: a072c9dc-9701-4f1c-932f-64cee95997ad X-Archives-Hash: e8a751bbe57ebc591d3982cfc8d6c68d Wols Lists wrote: > On 13/11/2024 23:10, Dale wrote: >> My question is this.  Given they cost about $20 more, from what I've >> found anyway, is it worth it?  Is there a downside to this new set of >> heads being added?  I'm thinking a higher failure rate, more risk to >> data or something like that.  I think this is a fairly new thing, last >> couple years or so maybe.  We all know how some new things don't work >> out. > > I think this technology has actually been out for a long time. I'm > sure I've heard of it ages ago. > > Thing is, it's probably one of those things that's been available in > high-end drives for years, but the cost-benefit ratio has been low so > few people bought them. Now presumably the economics have changed. > > If the actuators are mounted opposite each other, then they can't > collide, and presumably can operate completely independent of each > other. The costs of two of them were presumably just deemed not worth it. > > An opposite niche (and rather apposite for you) was when I started > buying disk drives. I think my first was a 2GB Bigfoot, followed by a > 6GB, and I bought several 18GBs for work. They were "old tech", 5.25" > 5200rpm in an era of 3.5" 7500rpm, but their capacities were huge and > cheap. If all you wanted was storage, they were great. Most people > thought the size and speed of the smaller drives was better value, > even if it cost more per meg. > > Cheers, > Wol > > It may have been available for really expensive hard drives.  Those far above what I'd be willing to pay and wouldn't look for.  I do find it interesting tho.  Why not have three actuators?  Or four?  If they can all fit in there and not hit each other, it does give the heads more opportunities to be over needed data.  Then the port between drive and controller, SATA or maybe SAS, likely becomes a bottle neck.  Of course, you can only fit so many in there.  Two may be the limit.  Drives are fairly small already.  Plus there is the heat problem.  I remember seeing old drives that had I think 14" platters.  They had large motors to spin them.  The controller was a separate thing too.  I think their capacity was like 30 or 40MBs or so.  It usually took two people to move one of those things.  The company I worked for upgraded systems twice in the five years I worked for them.  Their fastest one ran at a blazingly fast 25MHz.  It was RISC based, I think I spelled that right.  It was a NCR system.  We used old Wyse terminals but that new system was really fast.  Except when two or more of those Genicom line printers were running.  I think they were the model 4440 or something.  The printhead didn't move.  It was as wide as the page and printed a whole line at a time, hence the name line printer.  They could print far faster than a person could read.  Still, those systems are nothing compared to what we have today.  Heck, my old video card in my current rig likely has more computing power than the NCR system back then, which could handle 200 to 300 users at a time.  How far we have came.  Those were the days tho.  Dale :-)  :-)