* [gentoo-user] How do I remove pam during/after an install. @ 2020-12-19 14:50 Walter Dnes 2020-12-20 1:52 ` [gentoo-user] [SOLVED] " Walter Dnes 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Walter Dnes @ 2020-12-19 14:50 UTC (permalink / raw To: Gentoo Users List I always remove pam, first thing during/after an install. Today, after the first emerge @world in the chroot, I unmerged pam-related stuff, and *TRIED* to emerge shadow. This had always workrd in the past. Today, I got a broken system. Emerge doesn't work, bash-completion doesn't work, yadda yadda yadda. I'm looking at running mkfs and re-downloading the stage3 tarball. My question is... how do I remove pam during/after install, without breaking my system? -- Walter Dnes <waltdnes@waltdnes.org> I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* [gentoo-user] [SOLVED] How do I remove pam during/after an install. 2020-12-19 14:50 [gentoo-user] How do I remove pam during/after an install Walter Dnes @ 2020-12-20 1:52 ` Walter Dnes 2020-12-20 2:19 ` John Covici 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Walter Dnes @ 2020-12-20 1:52 UTC (permalink / raw To: gentoo-user Apologies for wasting peoples' time. I was also inserting a rather large USE variable whilst removing pam. This was a shock for the system and the real reason for system breakage.. Removing pam had nothing to do with it. See http://wikigentoo.ksiezyc.pl/HOWTO_Remove_PAM.htm for pam-removal nstructions. It's somewhat outdated but the basic instructions are OK. ====================================================================== Note: Don't do anything else while removing PAM. Do not log out of existing console sessions First, edit make.conf and add -pam to the USE flags. Then: # emerge -C pam pam-login && emerge -N shadow # emerge -uDN world That's it! Your system is now PAM free. ====================================================================== -- Walter Dnes <waltdnes@waltdnes.org> I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-user] [SOLVED] How do I remove pam during/after an install. 2020-12-20 1:52 ` [gentoo-user] [SOLVED] " Walter Dnes @ 2020-12-20 2:19 ` John Covici 2020-12-20 9:54 ` antlists 2020-12-21 4:34 ` Walter Dnes 0 siblings, 2 replies; 6+ messages in thread From: John Covici @ 2020-12-20 2:19 UTC (permalink / raw To: gentoo-user On Sat, 19 Dec 2020 20:52:48 -0500, Walter Dnes wrote: > > Apologies for wasting peoples' time. I was also inserting a rather > large USE variable whilst removing pam. This was a shock for the system > and the real reason for system breakage.. Removing pam had nothing to > do with it. See > http://wikigentoo.ksiezyc.pl/HOWTO_Remove_PAM.htm for pam-removal > nstructions. It's somewhat outdated but the basic instructions are OK. > > ====================================================================== > Note: Don't do anything else while removing PAM. Do not log out of > existing console sessions > > First, edit make.conf and add -pam to the USE flags. Then: > > # emerge -C pam pam-login && emerge -N shadow > # emerge -uDN world > > That's it! Your system is now PAM free. > ====================================================================== OK, pardon my ignorance, what is wrong with pam? Aside from the fact that when you change versions you have to reboot or restart just about everything. -- Your life is like a penny. You're going to lose it. The question is: How do you spend it? John Covici wb2una covici@ccs.covici.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-user] [SOLVED] How do I remove pam during/after an install. 2020-12-20 2:19 ` John Covici @ 2020-12-20 9:54 ` antlists 2020-12-21 4:34 ` Walter Dnes 1 sibling, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread From: antlists @ 2020-12-20 9:54 UTC (permalink / raw To: gentoo-user On 20/12/2020 02:19, John Covici wrote: > OK, pardon my ignorance, what is wrong with pam? Aside from the fact > that when you change versions you have to reboot or restart just about > everything. There's a lot of people out there (like me) who've never had the (mis?)fortune to deal with it. And if it breaks, it leaves you with a system that is a pain in the arse to recover. In other words, I don't care how good it is, I don't want to be forced to learn it in a hurry because otherwise I can't get in to my system. Cheers, Wol ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-user] [SOLVED] How do I remove pam during/after an install. 2020-12-20 2:19 ` John Covici 2020-12-20 9:54 ` antlists @ 2020-12-21 4:34 ` Walter Dnes 2020-12-21 17:55 ` Michael 1 sibling, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Walter Dnes @ 2020-12-21 4:34 UTC (permalink / raw To: gentoo-user On Sat, Dec 19, 2020 at 09:19:33PM -0500, John Covici wrote > OK, pardon my ignorance, what is wrong with pam? Aside from the fact > that when you change versions you have to reboot or restart just about > everything. It's obscure/different. That's important, because if you need to tweak a regular config file or fix something broken, the first reaction is to "ask Mr. Google". And you'll almost always get the non-pam answer. In my early days with Gentoo I left the default at pam. But I soon got sick and tired of "implementing configs" I found on Google, only to find they didn't work. The URL I pointed to gives one such example, sudoers. So I simply switched away from pam. pam is one example of the corporate take-over of linux. According to https://subscription.packtpub.com/book/networking_and_servers/9781904811329/1/ch01lvl1sec06/history-of-pam pam was released in 1997, by Sun Microsystems, who were a big player in the corporate Unix space at that time. The rationale... it scales better... https://subscription.packtpub.com/book/networking_and_servers/9781904811329/1/ch01lvl1sec08/need-for-pam > Furthermore, the password file does not scale. It might work with > 100 users, but working with 5000 users is a completely different > story. PAM can easily scale to tens of thousands depending on the > chosen back end; changing the back end user database, for example, > from a flat file to an LDAP server will be painful if you are not > using PAM. I've got 3 users on my machine; root; me; and a general-screwing-around-and-testing user. All of them are actually me. pam assumes that some of the 5,000 users at corporate HQ are malicious actors, trying to break into other users' accounts. Ditto for systemd. I've got a NAT-ing router and a "Paranoia Plus" iptables ruleset. So far, that's been sufficient for me. And don't get me started on the corporatization of IPV6. -- Walter Dnes <waltdnes@waltdnes.org> I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-user] [SOLVED] How do I remove pam during/after an install. 2020-12-21 4:34 ` Walter Dnes @ 2020-12-21 17:55 ` Michael 0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread From: Michael @ 2020-12-21 17:55 UTC (permalink / raw To: gentoo-user [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3249 bytes --] On Monday, 21 December 2020 04:34:22 GMT Walter Dnes wrote: > On Sat, Dec 19, 2020 at 09:19:33PM -0500, John Covici wrote > > > OK, pardon my ignorance, what is wrong with pam? Aside from the fact > > that when you change versions you have to reboot or restart just about > > everything. > > It's obscure/different. That's important, because if you need to > tweak a regular config file or fix something broken, the first reaction > is to "ask Mr. Google". And you'll almost always get the non-pam > answer. In my early days with Gentoo I left the default at pam. But I > soon got sick and tired of "implementing configs" I found on Google, > only to find they didn't work. The URL I pointed to gives one such > example, sudoers. So I simply switched away from pam. Default settings work faultlessly here, although I don't often tweak PAM configurations. > pam is one example of the corporate take-over of linux. According to > https://subscription.packtpub.com/book/networking_and_servers/9781904811329/ > 1/ch01lvl1sec06/history-of-pam pam was released in 1997, by Sun > Microsystems, who were a big player in the corporate Unix space at that > time. The rationale... it scales better... > https://subscription.packtpub.com/book/networking_and_servers/9781904811329 > /1/ch01lvl1sec08/need-for-pam Right, the "scales better" argument is not valid for a single PC user and domestic settings, but primarily PAM helps to standardize authentication mechanisms across different applications, instead of leaving it to each application developer to concoct their own hard coded authentication scheme, which may or may not be patched in a timely fashion when a vulnerability is reported. I appreciate kerberizing the login for a domestic desktop would be deemed rather unnecessary and insanely geeky, but PAM can be left in its simple vanilla config without any corporate extended authentication complexity and use shadow with its PAM plugin. PAM also integrates conveniently with keyrings. > > Furthermore, the password file does not scale. It might work with > > 100 users, but working with 5000 users is a completely different > > story. PAM can easily scale to tens of thousands depending on the > > chosen back end; changing the back end user database, for example, > > from a flat file to an LDAP server will be painful if you are not > > using PAM. > > I've got 3 users on my machine; root; me; and a > general-screwing-around-and-testing user. All of them are actually me. > pam assumes that some of the 5,000 users at corporate HQ are malicious > actors, trying to break into other users' accounts. Ditto for systemd. > I've got a NAT-ing router and a "Paranoia Plus" iptables ruleset. So > far, that's been sufficient for me. Yes, but as I understand it PAM is not only meant to control botnets knocking on your door, but also control what authenticated user/apps/conditions can or cannot do following authentication - if say they were to be inadvertently compromised. Anyway, I vote for more user choice, so fully respect the option to not have PAM on a system. > And don't get me started on the corporatization of IPV6. Heh, it certainly duplicates the workload when hacking firewall rules. ;-) [-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part. --] [-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2020-12-21 17:55 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 6+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2020-12-19 14:50 [gentoo-user] How do I remove pam during/after an install Walter Dnes 2020-12-20 1:52 ` [gentoo-user] [SOLVED] " Walter Dnes 2020-12-20 2:19 ` John Covici 2020-12-20 9:54 ` antlists 2020-12-21 4:34 ` Walter Dnes 2020-12-21 17:55 ` Michael
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