From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from lists.gentoo.org ([140.105.134.102] helo=robin.gentoo.org) by nuthatch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1HwC6M-0003KZ-28 for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Thu, 07 Jun 2007 07:08:10 +0000 Received: from robin.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l5776D1k011681; Thu, 7 Jun 2007 07:06:13 GMT Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.180]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l5771oAP006916 for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2007 07:01:50 GMT Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id p76so920380pyb for ; Thu, 07 Jun 2007 00:01:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=MMTJ98lDcSpqJ7QIJWlyIw+Kz6enFsNW4ozWdrv+i0u2iEiGrTRQL5qbMEsykXvX5Mnp6QZwi2C6+By38AtZmGUOLCteNUFOz5nkE0ENrN6WeB1t6khrH6iIzzTW74d8dDkwb0hebPs7wRnG22Cd02b2QzpZMBLs49QfGPZUavk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=RJdLEeC0s1/BgBDjPheUasPnolCrs1R32rI8iXYMdLi1eXng4jaWsxIGWrHtpjNgUk9QvLkLUHzfs3/tWYQRAwvLclPQaGTVU1VVRcrvyq5YjrxpWa8+QtlF9jCvJLwP0nL/nzkV01HEviHYz0eGjqQJsIPRtEXLRVMSzHPpDHA= Received: by 10.65.237.15 with SMTP id o15mr2409282qbr.1181199709954; Thu, 07 Jun 2007 00:01:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.251.19 with HTTP; Thu, 7 Jun 2007 00:01:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <8cd1ed20706070001l256847ib1da305211fb9de1@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 19:01:49 +1200 From: "Kent Fredric" To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Again: Critical bugs considered invalid In-Reply-To: Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: X-Archives-Salt: e9e674e2-5003-45fb-a774-46c7bcd4a1d7 X-Archives-Hash: 66ea562388b7ccefef8d5c56446d4e6a > > > Bug reports need to be thorough. If they do not provide enough > > > information to reproduce a bug, or at least explain exactly what is > > > going on, then it is hard for the developers and bug > > squashers to do > > > anything about it. > > > > Sometimes, as the reported, you miss some important things. Okay. > > Then the wrangler (or whom else works onthr bug) simply > > should ask for more information. > > > > But if your bugs are always marked as invalid, you loose any > > motiviation for further contributions. Bug reports are also > > contribution. Imo, provide as much information as possible, describe all paths of logic, dont assume bugwranglers are psychic. Verbosity can be your friend. If its marked invalid, then either they've given a damn good reason, or you've not given them a better one not to mark it invalid. In either case, if its invalid, keep posting as much information as possible on the subject, not just the what, but the why. I'm still at a loss why theres any need for symlinks to the coda FS when you could just tell firefox to build a profile /directly/ on that coda-fs. Im not saying there is no valid reason, just there has yet to be a good explanation as to why. If you can't on your own convince a dev to change a bugs status, find other people with similar problems to increase the validity of your claim. Bugs can be like a court room. No witnesses & no good evidence, a poor testimony, and you end up in jail. So you get all the evidence you can, get your witnesses, make a nice logical argument, and with any luck, the wrangler might reinstate its free status ( cos being invalid dosn't mean that the CC list will suddenly stop working afaik ) > I can't really argue that one. I would also admit that I personally > tend to be a lot more patient in weedling information out of an > end user. Comes from tech support training. Do remember though that > a lot of techies are not people persons (I know that is not a great > excuse, or even good grammar). The founders of the open source movement > were notorious jerks. :P It is a matter of recorded fact. They > Focused more on the software and let their friends handle the people. I sympathize with them. The reason devs often tend to be jerks, is because people of lesser understanding often be as big a jerk when they envisage a problem which is really a case of "problem exists between keyboard and chair" or a case of "its not our fault, its somebody elses", and sadly for devs, there are an awful lot of people who know very little yet profess to know very much. ( Evidence? in high school i had one teacher tell me off for doing on a computer something another teacher had told me to do, because the one of lesser understanding didn't obviously have a clue what i was doing, and thus made drastic assumptions that i was 'writing viruses and hacking' .... and that was before I ever did any /real/ programming work :/ ... work in a company where you have customers, you'll probably find complications with 'customer doesn't understand, and thus we have to start again to fix a non-problem' ) > > > if the idea of creating a new profile would not work for you, > > > then recreating your firefox directory, with "physical" copies > > > of the symlinked files would do the trick as well. > > > > Not really. The symlinks are no problem for FF, it works perfectly > > well. And I *need* them to store temporary stuff locally. > > It's mozilla-launcher which artificially breaks if it > > *thinks* something could be wrong. > > > Personally, I don't realy know WHAT mozilla-launcher is I think. :P > I have always just created shortcuts to firefox directly, and let it > handle everything itself. > > > > Imagine if you just sunk three years into a project, and suddenly > > > someone started attacking you because it didn't work perfectly on > > > their system. > > > Well, I'm working on lots of OSS projects for many many > > years. But I never ever felt being attacked by an bug report. > > It is not the bug report that is the attack. It is the angry > declarations > of incompetense. The insistance that because you do not agree, that > something > must be wrong with the developers. The fact that in just a handful of > hours > working with a complicated issue, you declared the community at large to > be hostile and ignorant. Community is developer oriented, and thus, nasties and arrogance will abound =). Just look in -dev for your daily dose of flame war/soap opera. ( if your going to have a 100+ message flamewar that started from somebody complaining and missunderstanding an 'inside' joke, it looks kinda evident that some devs love arguing for the sake of it... so with that in mind, play safe, be nice :) ) > > That is just what I have seen from this situation. It is not the fact > that > you submit bugs, it is the way in which you do it. > > > -- > gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list > > In favour of what Enrico did, although for all the world it seems like he fought a bit and went against advice, he found a problem, and provided the means for a solution, and placed it in bugzilla. Despite it being marked invalid, that bug will remain in there for the rest of the natural life of bugzilla, and if anyone else out there /does/ have the misfortune of having the same problem later, they'll find it ( cos they look hard ), try it, see it work, and say 'thanks enrico for fixing my problem' on the bottom. When that happens, maybe it might get migrated from being invalid, and somebody may consider changing it for the better, which is one of the fundemental benefits of OSS. You dont have to actually commit the bugfix into upstream to do a world of difference :) -- Kent ruby -e '[1, 2, 4, 7, 0, 9, 5, 8, 3, 10, 11, 6, 12, 13].each{|x| print "enNOSPicAMreil kdrtf@gma.com"[(2*x)..(2*x+1)]}' -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list