[gentoo-user] Help - system reboots while compiling

[gentoo-user] Help - system reboots while compiling

[Jeff Rollin]

Hi list,

I am having trouble when compiling things on Gentoo. When I start a compile, 
it goes partway through and then reboots the machine (I can't confirm it's 
due to a compile but it seems likely since I have been compiling things each 
of the times this has happened.

One thing that might be causing the problem (?) is that last time I compiled 
the kernel I stupidly left out ACPI support.

Any ideas?

TIA, 

Jeff
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Re: [gentoo-user] Help - system reboots while compiling

[William Kenworthy]

Heat (dust bunnies/blocked fans/filters ...)
bad memory

Both the above get extra stress during compiles, the cpu throws a panic
and depending on kernel options will reboot.  Other things can do it,
but the above seem most common.

BillK



On Sun, 2007-02-11 at 08:36 +0000, Jeff Rollin wrote:
> Hi list,
> 
> I am having trouble when compiling things on Gentoo. When I start a compile, 
> it goes partway through and then reboots the machine (I can't confirm it's 
> due to a compile but it seems likely since I have been compiling things each 
> of the times this has happened.
> 
> One thing that might be causing the problem (?) is that last time I compiled 
> the kernel I stupidly left out ACPI support.
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> TIA, 
> 
> Jeff
-- 
William Kenworthy <billk@iinet.net.au>
Home!
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Re: [gentoo-user] Help - system reboots while compiling

[Philip Webb]

070211 William Kenworthy wrote:
> On Sun, 2007-02-11 at 08:36 +0000, Jeff Rollin wrote:
>> When I start a compile, it goes partway through
>> and then reboots the machine
> Heat (dust bunnies/blocked fans/filters ...), bad memory

I've had problems in the past due to the CPU overheating:
the machine will shut off automatically & you may have it set to reboot.

I cured it by taking the CPU & fan apart,
blowing & brushing -- carefully ! -- all the dust off
& putting some fresh heat compound between the two.

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,  Philip Webb : purslow@chass.utoronto.ca
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|  Centre for Urban & Community Studies
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'  University of Toronto
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Re: [gentoo-user] Help - system reboots while compiling

[Hemmann, Volker Armin]

On Sonntag, 11. Februar 2007, Jeff Rollin wrote:
> Hi list,
>
> I am having trouble when compiling things on Gentoo. When I start a
> compile, it goes partway through and then reboots the machine (I can't
> confirm it's due to a compile but it seems likely since I have been
> compiling things each of the times this has happened.
>
> One thing that might be causing the problem (?) is that last time I
> compiled the kernel I stupidly left out ACPI support.
>
> Any ideas?

like building a kernel with that ACPI stuff?
Or let the case open?

Make sure, that it is overheating and not a weak/dying PSU.
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Re: [gentoo-user] Help - system reboots while compiling

[Andrey Gerasimenko]

On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 11:57:19 +0300, William Kenworthy <billk@iinet.net.au>  
wrote:

> Heat (dust bunnies/blocked fans/filters ...)
> bad memory
>

Bad memory or bad motherboard. This is less likely, but also happens (saw  
that Thursday). Ideally, switch memory with another similar PC and see  
what happens to both.

-- 
Andrei Gerasimenko
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Re: [gentoo-user] Help - system reboots while compiling

[Kent Fredric]

On 2/11/07, Jeff Rollin <jeff.rollin@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi list,
>
> I am having trouble when compiling things on Gentoo. When I start a compile,
> it goes partway through and then reboots the machine (I can't confirm it's
> due to a compile but it seems likely since I have been compiling things each
> of the times this has happened.
>
> One thing that might be causing the problem (?) is that last time I compiled
> the kernel I stupidly left out ACPI support.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> TIA,
>
> Jeff
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>

I would go with Hammann with
"Make sure, that it is overheating and not a weak/dying PSU."

Many people neglect to realise how important a decent PSU is, and how
major an effect it can have on systems. A dodgy PSU in my experience
can do everything from -CAUSING- overheating, to random shutoffs, and
MURDERING hard drives.
I had one which killed 3 Hard Drives before I realised thats what the
problem was, and the last hard drive was so cooked it didn't even spin
up.

-- 
Kent
ruby -e '[1, 2, 4, 7, 0, 9, 5, 8, 3, 10, 11, 6, 12, 13].each{|x|
print "enNOSPicAMreil kdrtf@gma.com"[(2*x)..(2*x+1)]}'
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Re: [gentoo-user] Help - system reboots while compiling

[Jeff Rollin]

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On 11/02/07, Kent Fredric <kentfredric@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> >
>
> I would go with Hammann with
> "Make sure, that it is overheating and not a weak/dying PSU."
>
> Many people neglect to realise how important a decent PSU is, and how
> major an effect it can have on systems. A dodgy PSU in my experience
> can do everything from -CAUSING- overheating, to random shutoffs, and
> MURDERING hard drives.
> I had one which killed 3 Hard Drives before I realised thats what the
> problem was, and the last hard drive was so cooked it didn't even spin
> up.
>
> --


Joy. I should certainly hope it is NOT the PSU as it is new, and replaced a
dead one.

("New" as in "bought sometime in the summer")

Will check all the same, thanks

Jeff

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Re: [gentoo-user] Help - system reboots while compiling

[Jeff Rollin]

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On 11/02/07, Hemmann, Volker Armin <volker.armin.hemmann@tu-clausthal.de>
wrote:
>
> On Sonntag, 11. Februar 2007, Jeff Rollin wrote:
> > Hi list,
> >
> > I am having trouble when compiling things on Gentoo. When I start a
> > compile, it goes partway through and then reboots the machine (I can't
> > confirm it's due to a compile but it seems likely since I have been
> > compiling things each of the times this has happened.
> >
> > One thing that might be causing the problem (?) is that last time I
> > compiled the kernel I stupidly left out ACPI support.
> >
> > Any ideas?
>
> like building a kernel with that ACPI stuff?
> Or let the case open?


I have replaced the kernel with a prebuilt one from the LiveCD, to no
effect. (That is, it works, until the machine reboots again)

Building one wouldn't be an option as this machine is the only one I
currently have w/ Linux on it and it does not "survive" a compile before
rebooting

Letting the case open I suppose would be a good diagnostic. Hopefully I will
find a permanent solution though

Jeff

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Re: [gentoo-user] Help - system reboots while compiling

[Hemmann, Volker Armin]

On Sonntag, 11. Februar 2007, Jeff Rollin wrote:
> On 11/02/07, Kent Fredric <kentfredric@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I would go with Hammann with
> > "Make sure, that it is overheating and not a weak/dying PSU."
> >
> > Many people neglect to realise how important a decent PSU is, and how
> > major an effect it can have on systems. A dodgy PSU in my experience
> > can do everything from -CAUSING- overheating, to random shutoffs, and
> > MURDERING hard drives.
> > I had one which killed 3 Hard Drives before I realised thats what the
> > problem was, and the last hard drive was so cooked it didn't even spin
> > up.
> >
> > --
>
> Joy. I should certainly hope it is NOT the PSU as it is new, and replaced a
> dead one.
>
> ("New" as in "bought sometime in the summer")

6 month are enough time for a PSU to become bad.

Tomshardware just run a nice PSU test - the results were devastating. Only 4 
of the 9 PSUs survived the test.
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Re: [gentoo-user] Help - system reboots while compiling

[Alan McKinnon]

On Sunday 11 February 2007, Jeff Rollin wrote:
> On 11/02/07, Kent Fredric <kentfredric@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I would go with Hammann with
> > "Make sure, that it is overheating and not a weak/dying PSU."
> >
> > Many people neglect to realise how important a decent PSU is, and
> > how major an effect it can have on systems. A dodgy PSU in my
> > experience can do everything from -CAUSING- overheating, to random
> > shutoffs, and MURDERING hard drives.
> > I had one which killed 3 Hard Drives before I realised thats what
> > the problem was, and the last hard drive was so cooked it didn't
> > even spin up.
> >
> > --
>
> Joy. I should certainly hope it is NOT the PSU as it is new, and
> replaced a dead one.
>
> ("New" as in "bought sometime in the summer")

fwiw,

I've given up on the consumer electronics industry being able to 
consistently build high quality power supplies for ANYTHING that plugs 
into the mains. The normal build quality is terrible, and the ability 
of the designer to do the job leaves much to be desired. It almost 
looks like the things are deisnged to be "good enough to just make it 
past a years warranty"

Saying you might have a dodgy and new psu surprises me about as much as 
saying that the sky is blue and water is wet....


alan

-- 
Optimists say the glass is half full,
Pessimists say the glass is half empty,
Developers say wtf is the glass twice as big as it needs to be?

Alan McKinnon
alan at linuxholdings dot co dot za
+27 82, double three seven, one nine three five
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Re: [gentoo-user] Help - system reboots while compiling

[Mark Kirkwood]

Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On Sunday 11 February 2007, Jeff Rollin wrote:
>> On 11/02/07, Kent Fredric <kentfredric@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I would go with Hammann with
>>> "Make sure, that it is overheating and not a weak/dying PSU."
>>>
>>> Many people neglect to realise how important a decent PSU is, and
>>> how major an effect it can have on systems. A dodgy PSU in my
>>> experience can do everything from -CAUSING- overheating, to random
>>> shutoffs, and MURDERING hard drives.
>>> I had one which killed 3 Hard Drives before I realised thats what
>>> the problem was, and the last hard drive was so cooked it didn't
>>> even spin up.
>>>
>>> --
>> Joy. I should certainly hope it is NOT the PSU as it is new, and
>> replaced a dead one.
>>
>> ("New" as in "bought sometime in the summer")
> 
> fwiw,
> 
> I've given up on the consumer electronics industry being able to 
> consistently build high quality power supplies for ANYTHING that plugs 
> into the mains. The normal build quality is terrible, and the ability 
> of the designer to do the job leaves much to be desired. It almost 
> looks like the things are deisnged to be "good enough to just make it 
> past a years warranty"
> 
> Saying you might have a dodgy and new psu surprises me about as much as 
> saying that the sky is blue and water is wet....
> 

While I generally agree, not *all* manufacturers provide rubbish for 
us... e.g in the current context Zalman PSUs are very good quality 
(robust and quiet), and if you hunt around a bit even some of the less 
spectacular brands have their moments (e.g I have a couple of 
Thermaltake 560W PSUs that are very good).

Cheers

Mark
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RE: [gentoo-user] Help - system reboots while compiling

[Dave Rea]

Often this is the case especially with many so called "good deals".  A lot
of the power supplies coming out of China are built for selling and not for
performance.  In my own experience I have found Corsair Modular Power
Supplies to have reliable capacitors and provide steady amps.  Expect to pay
more for solid core capacitors which are more effective and reliable.

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Kirkwood [mailto:markir@paradise.net.nz] 
Sent: Monday, 12 February 2007 9:57 p.m.
To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Help - system reboots while compiling

Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On Sunday 11 February 2007, Jeff Rollin wrote:
>> On 11/02/07, Kent Fredric <kentfredric@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I would go with Hammann with
>>> "Make sure, that it is overheating and not a weak/dying PSU."
>>>
>>> Many people neglect to realise how important a decent PSU is, and
>>> how major an effect it can have on systems. A dodgy PSU in my
>>> experience can do everything from -CAUSING- overheating, to random
>>> shutoffs, and MURDERING hard drives.
>>> I had one which killed 3 Hard Drives before I realised thats what
>>> the problem was, and the last hard drive was so cooked it didn't
>>> even spin up.
>>>
>>> --
>> Joy. I should certainly hope it is NOT the PSU as it is new, and
>> replaced a dead one.
>>
>> ("New" as in "bought sometime in the summer")
> 
> fwiw,
> 
> I've given up on the consumer electronics industry being able to 
> consistently build high quality power supplies for ANYTHING that plugs 
> into the mains. The normal build quality is terrible, and the ability 
> of the designer to do the job leaves much to be desired. It almost 
> looks like the things are deisnged to be "good enough to just make it 
> past a years warranty"
> 
> Saying you might have a dodgy and new psu surprises me about as much as 
> saying that the sky is blue and water is wet....
> 

While I generally agree, not *all* manufacturers provide rubbish for 
us... e.g in the current context Zalman PSUs are very good quality 
(robust and quiet), and if you hunt around a bit even some of the less 
spectacular brands have their moments (e.g I have a couple of 
Thermaltake 560W PSUs that are very good).

Cheers

Mark
-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] Help - system reboots while compiling

[Alan McKinnon]

On Monday 12 February 2007, Mark Kirkwood wrote:
> > I've given up on the consumer electronics industry being able to
> > consistently build high quality power supplies for ANYTHING that
> > plugs into the mains. The normal build quality is terrible, and the
> > ability of the designer to do the job leaves much to be desired. It
> > almost looks like the things are deisnged to be "good enough to
> > just make it past a years warranty"
> >
> > Saying you might have a dodgy and new psu surprises me about as
> > much as saying that the sky is blue and water is wet....
>
> While I generally agree, not *all* manufacturers provide rubbish for
> us... e.g in the current context Zalman PSUs are very good quality
> (robust and quiet), and if you hunt around a bit even some of the
> less spectacular brands have their moments (e.g I have a couple of
> Thermaltake 560W PSUs that are very good).

True enough, but I was careful to qualify what I said :-)

I said "consumer electronics", that's the bargain / reasonably priced 
stuff that you find in your local electronics/pc store. You do get 
decent stuff out there but it's in a different class and "consumer 
grade" isn't a good descriptor

alan

-- 
Optimists say the glass is half full,
Pessimists say the glass is half empty,
Developers say wtf is the glass twice as big as it needs to be?

Alan McKinnon
alan at linuxholdings dot co dot za
+27 82, double three seven, one nine three five
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Re: [gentoo-user] Help - system reboots while compiling

[Mark Kirkwood]

Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On Monday 12 February 2007, Mark Kirkwood wrote:

>> While I generally agree, not *all* manufacturers provide rubbish for
>> us... e.g in the current context Zalman PSUs are very good quality
>> (robust and quiet), and if you hunt around a bit even some of the
>> less spectacular brands have their moments (e.g I have a couple of
>> Thermaltake 560W PSUs that are very good).
> 
> True enough, but I was careful to qualify what I said :-)
> 
> I said "consumer electronics", that's the bargain / reasonably priced 
> stuff that you find in your local electronics/pc store. You do get 
> decent stuff out there but it's in a different class and "consumer 
> grade" isn't a good descriptor
> 
>

Right - sorry, misunderstood what you meant by "consumer electronics".

Cheers

Mark
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Re: [gentoo-user] Help - system reboots while compiling

[Dan Farrell]

I recommend you look into memtest86 to check your ram, it's provided as
a boot option on the gentoo boot cds.
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Re: [gentoo-user] Help - system reboots while compiling

[Jeff Rollin]

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On 12/02/07, Dan Farrell <dan@spore.ath.cx> wrote:
>
> I recommend you look into memtest86 to check your ram, it's provided as
> a boot option on the gentoo boot cds.
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>
Dan,

Quite correct

Funnily enough I had an Ubuntu LiveCD to hand with it on, so I used that
instead. Is there a finite number of passes the program needs to make? I
left it running for six hours yesterday and it had done something like 11+
passes without finding an error. Is that anywhere near long enough?

Thanks

Jeff

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Re: [gentoo-user] Help - system reboots while compiling

[Matt Richards]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I wouldn't of thought it would be the RAM not from behavior like that
but it does sound like a overheating issue, I have had computers just
power off because they get too hot.

Matty.

Jeff Rollin wrote:
> On 12/02/07, Dan Farrell <dan@spore.ath.cx> wrote:
>>
>> I recommend you look into memtest86 to check your ram, it's provided as
>> a boot option on the gentoo boot cds.
>> -- 
>> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
>>
>>
> Dan,
> 
> Quite correct
> 
> Funnily enough I had an Ubuntu LiveCD to hand with it on, so I used that
> instead. Is there a finite number of passes the program needs to make? I
> left it running for six hours yesterday and it had done something like 11+
> passes without finding an error. Is that anywhere near long enough?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Jeff
> 

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Re: [gentoo-user] Help - system reboots while compiling

[Hemmann, Volker Armin]

On Montag, 12. Februar 2007, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On Sunday 11 February 2007, Jeff Rollin wrote:
> > On 11/02/07, Kent Fredric <kentfredric@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I would go with Hammann with
> > > "Make sure, that it is overheating and not a weak/dying PSU."
> > >
> > > Many people neglect to realise how important a decent PSU is, and
> > > how major an effect it can have on systems. A dodgy PSU in my
> > > experience can do everything from -CAUSING- overheating, to random
> > > shutoffs, and MURDERING hard drives.
> > > I had one which killed 3 Hard Drives before I realised thats what
> > > the problem was, and the last hard drive was so cooked it didn't
> > > even spin up.
> > >
> > > --
> >
> > Joy. I should certainly hope it is NOT the PSU as it is new, and
> > replaced a dead one.
> >
> > ("New" as in "bought sometime in the summer")
>
> fwiw,
>
> I've given up on the consumer electronics industry being able to
> consistently build high quality power supplies for ANYTHING that plugs
> into the mains. The normal build quality is terrible, and the ability
> of the designer to do the job leaves much to be desired. It almost
> looks like the things are deisnged to be "good enough to just make it
> past a years warranty"
>
> Saying you might have a dodgy and new psu surprises me about as much as
> saying that the sky is blue and water is wet....
>
>
> alan
>

If you can read german (or if you know someone who is able to translate it for 
you):

http://hardware.thgweb.de/2007/01/15/stresstest_netzteile_2007/index.html

Luckily, I own the same enermax they tested...
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Re: [gentoo-user] Help - system reboots while compiling

[Andrey Gerasimenko]

On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 19:46:42 +0300, Hemmann, Volker Armin  
<volker.armin.hemmann@tu-clausthal.de> wrote:

>
> If you can read german (or if you know someone who is able to translate  
> it for
> you):
>
> http://hardware.thgweb.de/2007/01/15/stresstest_netzteile_2007/index.html
>

Nice link, thanks. Re reading German:

1. Google the first line of the article (of course, in quotes).

2. Click "Translate this page" for the only link Google returns.

3. The resulting English text is quite readable.

-- 
Andrei Gerasimenko
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Re: [gentoo-user] Help - system reboots while compiling

[Alan McKinnon]

On Monday 12 February 2007, Matt Richards wrote:
> I wouldn't of thought it would be the RAM not from behavior like that
> but it does sound like a overheating issue, I have had computers just
> power off because they get too hot.

The thing with memtest is that it does (mostly) predictable tests, which 
can detect consistent errors with memory chips, or somewhat random 
errors with memory. 

BUT, it doesn't help at all with detecting didgy hardware in other 
areas. It doesn't give you any valid tests for what happens when the 
machine gets hot for example. Compiling a kernel (or openoffice.org) 10 
times in a loop does do that.

So, I would say that you have shown that your memory chips are not 
likely to be faulty, but you have not yet proven that the cpu (or the 
rest of the machine) isn't getting hot and overloading.

Jeff, if you were paying me to diagnose your problem, I'd be telling you 
to swap out the psu and test some more, then disassemble the 
cpu/heatsink combination and replace the thermal grease and test some 
more. If it then fails, the tests are still not conclusive so I would 
want to forcefully cool the machine (with an external fan etc) while 
putting it through some stress tests (like a looooooong compile).

Unfortunately, it happens to be true that only extended periods of high 
load using all (or most) of the systems in a machine qualify as a 
decent test.

alan


-- 
Optimists say the glass is half full,
Pessimists say the glass is half empty,
Developers say wtf is the glass twice as big as it needs to be?

Alan McKinnon
alan at linuxholdings dot co dot za
+27 82, double three seven, one nine three five
-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] Help - system reboots while compiling

[Jeff Rollin]

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On 12/02/07, Alan McKinnon <alan@linuxholdings.co.za> wrote:
>
> On Monday 12 February 2007, Matt Richards wrote:
> > I wouldn't of thought it would be the RAM not from behavior like that
> > but it does sound like a overheating issue, I have had computers just
> > power off because they get too hot.
>
> The thing with memtest is that it does (mostly) predictable tests, which
> can detect consistent errors with memory chips, or somewhat random
> errors with memory.
>
> BUT, it doesn't help at all with detecting didgy hardware in other
> areas. It doesn't give you any valid tests for what happens when the
> machine gets hot for example. Compiling a kernel (or openoffice.org) 10
> times in a loop does do that.


It does look like it's a problem with the PSU or (God forbid) the cpu. ("God
forbid" because new CPU means new motherboard also).


So, I would say that you have shown that your memory chips are not
> likely to be faulty, but you have not yet proven that the cpu (or the
> rest of the machine) isn't getting hot and overloading.
>
> Jeff, if you were paying me to diagnose your problem, I'd be telling you
> to swap out the psu and test some more, then disassemble the
> cpu/heatsink combination and replace the thermal grease and test some
> more. If it then fails, the tests are still not conclusive so I would
> want to forcefully cool the machine (with an external fan etc) while
> putting it through some stress tests (like a looooooong compile).


Well at the moment it doesn't even survive the early stages of a short
compile (the ./configure stage) so hopefully if any progress at all is made
at diagnosing the problem, it'll be quick. Unfortunately if I were paying
you to diagnose the problem I'd also have enough money to buy spare PSU's -
but I'm not!

Jeff

-- 
Now, did you hear the news today?
They say the danger's gone away
But I can hear the marching feet
Moving into the street

Adapted from Genesis, "Land of Confusion"

http://latedeveloper.org.uk

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Re: [gentoo-user] Help - system reboots while compiling

[Jeff Rollin]

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On 12/02/07, Hemmann, Volker Armin <volker.armin.hemmann@tu-clausthal.de>
wrote:
>
>
>
> If you can read german (or if you know someone who is able to translate it
> for
> you):
>
> http://hardware.thgweb.de/2007/01/15/stresstest_netzteile_2007/index.html
>
> Luckily, I own the same enermax they tested...
> --


F everyone's I, that looks to be the same test someone else mentioned from
Tom's Hardware - which is in English. That would probably work better than a
machine translation, especially of a language like German, where the order
of the words quite often with respect to English up-mixed is. :-)

Jeff

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Re: [gentoo-user] Help - system reboots while compiling

[Jeff Rollin]

Hi list

On 12/02/07, Jeff Rollin <jeff.rollin@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On 12/02/07, Hemmann, Volker Armin
> <volker.armin.hemmann@tu-clausthal.de> wrote:
> >
> >
> > If you can read german (or if you know someone who is able to translate it
> for
> > you):
> >
> >
> http://hardware.thgweb.de/2007/01/15/stresstest_netzteile_2007/index.html
> >
> > Luckily, I own the same enermax they tested...
> > --
>
> F everyone's I, that looks to be the same test someone else mentioned from
> Tom's Hardware - which is in English. That would probably work better than a
> machine translation, especially of a language like German, where the order
> of the words quite often with respect to English up-mixed is. :-)
>
> Jeff
>
>

Sorry to resurrect this thread but I think I may have gotten a little
closer to diagnosing the problem, if not to finding a solution. As I
wrote to my local (non-gentoo-specialist) lug:

"However, I am now reasonably certain, after having attempted to
emerge portage several times, that at least in some cases the problem
seems to be when the ./configure script gets to "checking dlfcn.h
usability" (this actually occurs when emerge attempts to compile
gettext as a dependency). I am posting this same info to the Gentoo
mailinglist as well."

I would be grateful for any ideas.
-- 
Q: What will happen in the Aftermath?

A: Impossible to tell, since we're still in the Beforemath.

http://latedeveloper.org.uk
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