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Sat, 17 Dec 2022 08:42:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.8.8.11] ([37.19.221.77]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id bj30-20020a05620a191e00b006cbe3be300esm3766017qkb.12.2022.12.17.08.42.18 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 17 Dec 2022 08:42:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] NAS and replacing with larger drives To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org References: <9407e524-2226-6ba9-dd7f-bac635d083e3@gmail.com> <10b30d8a-5c5d-a80a-e659-b5624e2848e4@gmail.com> <78c2c83f-fdd8-5c9b-3ac3-7c22bc4b5d64@gmail.com> <0a10c428-94f1-6112-4d88-c97143f9564d@gmail.com> From: Dale Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=rdalek1967@gmail.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBGFSciYBEADcEGMyJBSuavKO/XKUVvgkxck7Nl8Iuu8N2lcnRji/rSKg5c1Acix1ll9i oW8JBCHwvn0+Xy60BvEsqcup3YSHw5STl/bR1ePEehtnYrg8FdjdS91+B805RfnKMm69rFVI wLSBHQrSG1yxHd8CloWoEdhmVtP24buajbh114bgXd9ahtpZrCVMrWdWYUg2mEXguGV5uNAh Rf8SWxDNc79w24JxsV34a8niMUYMjzWr0rafIbzk732X38vGjVMLo/2mMpkbp9mPp++LHoY+ 0Pet8zxxdXPJSCd475kza1AD+hhSyBZXB9yknYWgyY3cZe1rGmooJSi2KX4QxO7npwLThcO1 be6KKRkd35+Fi/a1BzVOHsZMiK/gcwxEFoMd27gir4ehaeHJfFXl+65w4hj0EsOZSxrJrm2C R50g5By2czSKP1bADEygFNpIJj51AR+wM88NImG2RPtlT2maYBzazvF05g65cdHXGp1C7W5P wwwKU2DgABB2t7N7z5A69LnryBRw4zUYDRRYLTYlBlYgg+xILm2c0OrBdxJgLJa7JE50Eo25 d3PFwt9J0gYvqy6sPFLl9So0sDg9zm0hKQtXOP5kgropUFGrNoJI+mjwF4rYLRBVzZwNAvlO OhEvHubBo3mEllv4x+FeptwXZxlk7gUsdqI8AxnFB8K9wi6FVQARAQABtBtEYWxlIDxyZGFs ZWsxOTY3QGdtYWlsLmNvbT6JAk4EEwEIADgCGyMFCwkIBwIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AW IQQSG1h01ruv/WNXc3Q3RqOgiQH1GwUCYVJy8gAKCRA3RqOgiQH1G+waEACeTZCt77jnRAmQ AV7otKuZekDWiLi3Eig8tj5ZJiCNSYA/hIxzmexRP0GMqjitcXK1iGwWcvMzzvIq30GAjIfB 4BR38cnXbtBa6fNewiT7QaZe/Hn6yBRldXNQypzbHy+/o27bUEy+oX4rE7etUgEHQAjuw7xz XFWg4tH1/KJvsOVY5upnWc5LdxYhsuQ3dQD4b22GsK0pOBDfb9PiirYM8eGKvrVuq4E/c75z lDDFhINl18lNZ9D0ZFL3IkTjHsAAqFH9uhnnEB8CWdHbBewPEfRaOhBUYWZ3Q8uTkmDgZT8q D9jlvLEdw7Nh2ApdxoepnI/4D+ql2Gr4DtH7SEPydr5gcf1Qr/2bXRb1hAYnIVcbncs/Bm3Z bkRKPVWMfE3Fusa+p5hMzixk0YysMaTHlc7mYRYAEZGnPMXnmcCbetwARU7A0yz1M1kCMOAQ Lsz8KH5kv3cRenMB6SFfjND2JfAK61H5TtnPq3L8noS2ZykRYxq9Nm3X64O1tJojIKBoZFr8 AwYNCvqC6puUyGMuzHPh7jPof8glfrrEKIYUvNPGMDoVX3IGetxh/9l6NcxgFA4JGoR+LS3C zmeNrwlllAe3OEUfKoWVQ+pagpSdM+8hHolaSda4Ys66Z3fCR4ZvcTqfhTAVskpqdXa4isAk 7vTcXu3L499ttywEp7rJTbkCDQRhUnImARAAncUdVhmtRr59zqpTUppKroQYlzR0jv8oa7DG K4gakTAT2N7evnI9wpssmzyVk8VEiLzhnFQ/Ol3FRt6hZCXDJt0clyHOyTfvz/MNFttWuZTc mLpSvmRR6VRjAH+Tz3Eam2xUw3PGuH97BcXQ3NnX3msv1UDxtxxBu6e2YrdeOhrCUSgzokcJ 98ChUNy934cgepPybAI12lSWqVFQ1aG7jExZfiUk+333fPSDbpKoZbTW5YJLXbycmW/C1IWL qYQyNjRWKaGoJtUWFhhmNiOQct7n90aKivNVPavmN+UQ9LlMaINtf9T6XCzLfogCFsulDCDJ 0yNQLDTurHaB4E71xoctgXmLLq9z1RQ0W2XiVAAOZQj6K3+d0AOUjDhCQ2QW8dUSq0ckkZXV DKVJOGS8Nhf2eIWIqRnP3AcUiiaiFGqUaVUmUAZ6h/oJmgghEu/1S+pcuUKU5i69+XCZ3hH2 Jzwzbf7K+FAIkOhCfHncF8i1N1pk00pOVykNnqHTfFo3qFusHt0ZWgXVnnn4pYdXqZNoDhvF BRE5Vm4k/k96Pw8HRx6Os6eFSRrlqGzRgqsu86FekxusXB9UGv4lJhtU/J+8MRWsh22K718s DbQnABicGKFz1qQlWvcf59oTByhLINJCBt1WXl+TzJDXepr3QSkqmK41dO9Hob97C9dMiK8A EQEAAYkCNgQYAQgAIAIbDBYhBBIbWHTWu6/9Y1dzdDdGo6CJAfUbBQJhUnLyAAoJEDdGo6CJ AfUbVHIQAKSWw620vPhR3A/njU2z77F3z/Jk+HTKdE3fIyWSWdkYN7CBFL0NguOMP30WZ+qE sJhZu7T5hf251MwQUUt27xlfnKYOmQs7CqONlXuXlGZI6WufrUjxNcVz+5gJsqvUWuuJWsgg sDmE92IBnfG/f81fPHWQyfr/SF4wYDMyoFp5xCCQpp1zB63iuFvvrhxBkEHzmbRtVDOhl0Xp BVEDR1w3QRACw9QJD/KM05Czv9JNQYlwinWO/OaQ9cMlUpKLgswUPg9IZ5vucxScfuAUA5uC B1jlAQ8ZPlVukBmbEv5RGOv+lpuEbA3YDMVtEeH4YMFbjt/+vH3Cr2vTbp5JlpByLburJEH0 WXZLUawEfUsZvVwpOuJK75vaa2HYXee+Cb3iCIzwfIfctdlqzUcbGRczlRNM59hpvj4z29Gh 3kAxVHItAYq54ikxQ9l4hQ8s9sLYPbX/WtcBxNX8crBSw0FLnmzGleVEtBHyqtt5CLzQNgrj GYWl1vKDUmRPw1CdZ1c+fMN9CY11jOM5B5ZnqZWfDeVYO2iJ5SuvTycChexCb8WYn1bdCBIo bBtga2RBXbVt4Mh9E4owsszefn51MwfjXxB20Fc5k3GU1AVpTCMs3ayYCzo0b2pvEvdjtDcA CYLEFPWgaFX9iQAM/CDfKvTtvgGWpqtCL2raq/mQoJEU Message-ID: <8889cc05-fcc5-2084-1336-0340357643d4@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2022 10:42:17 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/68.0 SeaMonkey/2.53.14 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------5E1AF257028E7962B918093A" X-Archives-Salt: 8b1ba93d-7762-4db1-91ef-53f1afa3b937 X-Archives-Hash: 364632e2da656a5bc21133b1f7718bf4 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------5E1AF257028E7962B918093A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Mark Knecht wrote: > > > On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 8:52 AM Dale > wrote: > > > > Mark Knecht wrote: > > > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 8:50 PM Dale > wrote: > > > > > I > > > wonder, could one install the LVM stuff and use that?  That would be > > > interesting.  I wonder if there is a NAS software that uses LVM > > > instead.  Interesting thought.  I just may go bug google on that > one.  o_O > > > > Maybe I'm missing the point but why would you want LVM on a > > storage pool? If I'm doing backups I just want space. I let TrueNas > > put it on disk and give it back if asked. Why put another layer > > of indirection? > > > > If you're intending to use it as simple NAS - i.e. - the only copy > > of some data on your network - then possibly LVM might > > be interesting, but then you need a second TrueNAS box > > to back that up. NAS as a mountable data location is > > different than NAS doing backups which is what I thought > > this thread was about. What am I not remembering? > > > > - Mark > > > > > > It's more about me being more used to using LVM.  Also, more used to > Linux as well.  BSD is not something I have much experience with and > until recently, none with ZFS.  Even the little experience I have with > BSD was well over a decade ago, maybe two decades ago.  I barely > remember it really. > > > > By replacing ZFS with LVM, I'm working with something I'm familiar > with and less likely to mess up things.  Things get messed up enough > without adding more confusion.  ;-) > > > > Dale > > > > :-)  :-) > > Hummm...I don't know Dale, I don't know... ZFS is a file system. > LVM is an abstraction on top (or underneath?) of a file system. > My understanding of LVM is that it frees you from hard decisions > on partition sizes, not that it replaces ZFS or ext3/4/5. > That is true.  Thing is, I've learned how to manage LVM even with encrypted data.  I've also learned how to expand storage without losing data or getting confused about what I'm doing.  To me, using LVM is pretty easy given the notes I have for the tasks I do most often.  > You may or may not know this but TrueNAS is available as a  > Linux version: > > https://www.truenas.com/blog/first-release-of-truenas-on-linux/ > > I don't recommend it. It's new. Let someone else figure it out. However > it might be more to your liking, and because it's Linux you'd be more > comfortable messing it up. ;0- > > WRT you I recommend that you try living in NGL for a while. Possibly  > you are just a bit too indoctrinated in the religion of building packages  > 30-50 times a year believing (without hard data) that it provides value.  > Instead you might just consider relaxing and letting the system  > take care of itself. In the last year I've only updated my TrueNAS box > twice that I can remember. > > On the other hand if system tweaking is what brings you joy then > Que Sera Sera ..... > > Good luck, > Mark It's not that I want to compile things, it's that I want to use things I'm already really familiar with.  If I bought a Raspberry Pi and built a NAS with it, I don't care if I compile the software on it or not as long as it has the software I need or I can install what I need.  From what I've read, compiling on a Raspberry isn't much fun.  It's very time consuming. Having a OS, binary one at that, that is Linux based is a big plus.  I can run LVM, cryptsetup and such in likely every Linux distro out there and get the same result as on my Gentoo box.  Switching to BSD, using ZFS, means I have to learn a whole new set of tools and methods.  I had enough fun learning LVM and I don't think LVM is going to die anytime soon.  It should be around for the foreseeable future.  As it is, even now, I still don't get how ZFS works.  I just followed a guide to get it working, sort of.  It's still not encrypted.  Figuring that out is next.  That should be fun.  My network card is out for delivery.  A few days late but better than never I guess.  I'll see if the drivers needed for it are available as modules or not.  I suspect they are tho based on info in this thread.  Dale :-)  :-)  --------------5E1AF257028E7962B918093A Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Mark Knecht wrote:


On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 8:52 AM Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Mark Knecht wrote:
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 8:50 PM Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I
> > wonder, could one install the LVM stuff and use that?  That would be
> > interesting.  I wonder if there is a NAS software that uses LVM
> > instead.  Interesting thought.  I just may go bug google on that one.  o_O
>
> Maybe I'm missing the point but why would you want LVM on a
> storage pool? If I'm doing backups I just want space. I let TrueNas
> put it on disk and give it back if asked. Why put another layer
> of indirection?
>
> If you're intending to use it as simple NAS - i.e. - the only copy
> of some data on your network - then possibly LVM might
> be interesting, but then you need a second TrueNAS box
> to back that up. NAS as a mountable data location is
> different than NAS doing backups which is what I thought
> this thread was about. What am I not remembering?
>
> - Mark
>
>
> It's more about me being more used to using LVM.  Also, more used to Linux as well.  BSD is not something I have much experience with and until recently, none with ZFS.  Even the little experience I have with BSD was well over a decade ago, maybe two decades ago.  I barely remember it really.
>
> By replacing ZFS with LVM, I'm working with something I'm familiar with and less likely to mess up things.  Things get messed up enough without adding more confusion.  ;-)
>
> Dale
>
> :-)  :-)

Hummm...I don't know Dale, I don't know... ZFS is a file system.
LVM is an abstraction on top (or underneath?) of a file system.
My understanding of LVM is that it frees you from hard decisions
on partition sizes, not that it replaces ZFS or ext3/4/5.


That is true.  Thing is, I've learned how to manage LVM even with encrypted data.  I've also learned how to expand storage without losing data or getting confused about what I'm doing.  To me, using LVM is pretty easy given the notes I have for the tasks I do most often. 


You may or may not know this but TrueNAS is available as a 
Linux version:


I don't recommend it. It's new. Let someone else figure it out. However
it might be more to your liking, and because it's Linux you'd be more
comfortable messing it up. ;0-

WRT you I recommend that you try living in NGL for a while. Possibly 
you are just a bit too indoctrinated in the religion of building packages 
30-50 times a year believing (without hard data) that it provides value. 
Instead you might just consider relaxing and letting the system 
take care of itself. In the last year I've only updated my TrueNAS box
twice that I can remember.

On the other hand if system tweaking is what brings you joy then
Que Sera Sera .....

Good luck,
Mark


It's not that I want to compile things, it's that I want to use things I'm already really familiar with.  If I bought a Raspberry Pi and built a NAS with it, I don't care if I compile the software on it or not as long as it has the software I need or I can install what I need.  From what I've read, compiling on a Raspberry isn't much fun.  It's very time consuming. Having a OS, binary one at that, that is Linux based is a big plus.  I can run LVM, cryptsetup and such in likely every Linux distro out there and get the same result as on my Gentoo box.  Switching to BSD, using ZFS, means I have to learn a whole new set of tools and methods.  I had enough fun learning LVM and I don't think LVM is going to die anytime soon.  It should be around for the foreseeable future.  As it is, even now, I still don't get how ZFS works.  I just followed a guide to get it working, sort of.  It's still not encrypted.  Figuring that out is next.  That should be fun. 

My network card is out for delivery.  A few days late but better than never I guess.  I'll see if the drivers needed for it are available as modules or not.  I suspect they are tho based on info in this thread. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 
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