[gentoo-user] Abut smb:// aware tools

[gentoo-user] Abut smb:// aware tools

[Harry Putnam]

Do we have tools other than Konqueror that are aware of smb/UNK
addressing?

Before you answer please note that:
I know about ssh
I know about fuse
I know about mount -tcifs

I'd really like to be able to use UNK addressing from the cmd line.

  cd //host/share

I don't now how many of you have noticed but bash shell from cygwin on
windows has that capability built in.  Or maybe it comes from windows
env. 
  You can do `cd //linux-host/share' in a bash terminal

If command line smb/UNK is not on without lots of diddling around, what
about some file managing tool that does it like Konqueror does.

Emacs is said to be able to do this using tramp but I haven't ever
gotten it to work.

Konqueror can do it... but I don't run kde, and don't really want to
fiddle with it in that direction.

[gentoo-user] Re: Abut smb:// aware tools

[walt]

On 10/02/2009 01:56 PM, Harry Putnam wrote:
> Do we have tools other than Konqueror that are aware of smb/UNK
> addressing?
>
> Before you answer please note that:
> I know about ssh
> I know about fuse
> I know about mount -tcifs
>
> I'd really like to be able to use UNK addressing from the cmd line.
>
>    cd //host/share

Well, it sounds like you know more about the subject than I do, but
do you know about smbmount that comes as part of samba?  Seems to me
like that's what you're asking for.

BTW, what is UNK addressing?

[gentoo-user] Re: Abut smb:// aware tools

[Harry Putnam]

walt <w41ter@gmail.com> writes:

> On 10/02/2009 01:56 PM, Harry Putnam wrote:
>> Do we have tools other than Konqueror that are aware of smb/UNK
>> addressing?
>>
>> Before you answer please note that:
>> I know about ssh
>> I know about fuse
>> I know about mount -tcifs
>>
>> I'd really like to be able to use UNK addressing from the cmd line.
>>
>>    cd //host/share
>
> Well, it sounds like you know more about the subject than I do, but
> do you know about smbmount that comes as part of samba?  Seems to me
> like that's what you're asking for.

I had forgotten about smbmount but that too is not the same as being
able to cd around with cd //host/share
smbmount adds another layer of complexity... and something more to
umount or maintain in mounted state... would also add a few more
characters to each address.

> BTW, what is UNK addressing?

Sorry ...s/K/C/ Universal Naming Convention...  I always think of the
sound `UNK' when I think about that style of address...(//host/share),
it just slipped into print, but I guess I can't hide the fact that I am
largely braindead too.

Re: [gentoo-user] Abut smb:// aware tools

[Dirk Heinrichs]

Am Freitag 02 Oktober 2009 22:56:31 schrieb Harry Putnam:

> I'd really like to be able to use UNK addressing from the cmd line.
> 
>   cd //host/share
>   You can do `cd //linux-host/share' in a bash terminal

You can do it on Linux, too. Use the kernel automounter and set it up to mount 
shares under /net/<hostname>. (Hmm, isn't that the default anyway?)

> Konqueror can do it... but I don't run kde, and don't really want to
> fiddle with it in that direction.

No, konq can't do it. It uses KDE kio techniques (incl. smb, fish, ftp, 
audiocd, whatever), but this is KDE only.

Bye...

	Dirk

[gentoo-user] Re: Abut smb:// aware tools

[walt]

On 10/02/2009 09:00 PM, Harry Putnam wrote:
> walt<w41ter@gmail.com>  writes:
>
>> On 10/02/2009 01:56 PM, Harry Putnam wrote:
>>> Do we have tools other than Konqueror that are aware of smb/UNK
>>> addressing?

The gnome desktop allows transparent browsing of network shares by
typing the URL "network:///" in the Location bar of nautilus, which
I'm guessing I very similar to the konqueror mechanism.

>>> Before you answer please note that:
>>> I know about ssh
>>> I know about fuse
>>> I know about mount -tcifs
>>>
>>> I'd really like to be able to use UNK addressing from the cmd line.
>>>
>>>     cd //host/share
>>
>> Well, it sounds like you know more about the subject than I do, but
>> do you know about smbmount that comes as part of samba?  Seems to me
>> like that's what you're asking for.
>
> I had forgotten about smbmount but that too is not the same as being
> able to cd around with cd //host/share...

Hm.  I'm wondering if you come from a Windows background and are new
to the world of *ix?  That's the only way I can make sense of the
paragraph above.

In order to cd to a file system (like smbfs) that file system must
first be 'mounted' on a mount-point e.g. /mnt/ or /shares/ or wherever
you choose to put it.  That mounting can be automated and transparent
to the user, as Dirk said, but it must be done somehow before you can
cd to it.

Just like partitons like /root, /var, /tmp, /usr, /home and the rest
must be mounted before they can be used by anyone, including the OS.
This is done automatically during bootup so you don't need to do it
yourself.  Same with network shares.

I hope I'm not misunderstanding and giving you an unneeded lecture :o)

Re: [gentoo-user] Abut smb:// aware tools

[Paul Hartman]

On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 3:56 PM, Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> wrote:
> Do we have tools other than Konqueror that are aware of smb/UNK
> addressing?
>
> Before you answer please note that:
> I know about ssh
> I know about fuse
> I know about mount -tcifs
>
> I'd really like to be able to use UNK addressing from the cmd line.
>
>  cd //host/share
>
> I don't now how many of you have noticed but bash shell from cygwin on
> windows has that capability built in.  Or maybe it comes from windows
> env.
>  You can do `cd //linux-host/share' in a bash terminal
>
> If command line smb/UNK is not on without lots of diddling around, what
> about some file managing tool that does it like Konqueror does.
>
> Emacs is said to be able to do this using tramp but I haven't ever
> gotten it to work.
>
> Konqueror can do it... but I don't run kde, and don't really want to
> fiddle with it in that direction.

Midnight Commander can do it.

[gentoo-user] Re: Abut smb:// aware tools

[Harry Putnam]

walt <w41ter@gmail.com> writes:


[...]

>>>
>>> Well, it sounds like you know more about the subject than I do, but
>>> do you know about smbmount that comes as part of samba?  Seems to me
>>> like that's what you're asking for.
>>
>> I had forgotten about smbmount but that too is not the same as being
>> able to cd around with cd //host/share...
>
> Hm.  I'm wondering if you come from a Windows background and are new
> to the world of *ix? 

I started my computer life on linux 1996.. only moved to windows for
some things when editing video (I like the adobe tools... and linux
just doesn't have anything remotely comparable.)

I admit having a very thick skull, but I also have quite a lot of time
on linux and solaris...so a little has soaked into even my thick
skull.  

It took me quite a while to learn much about windows.  And it still
seems horribly awkward... especially when moving around in the file
system. Its so much slower and time wasting to have to navigate by
clickety clack in something like the navigation windows that open for
on most applications..

I most windows applications, if you want to load a new file... the
navigation starts at My Documents... a place where just about nothing
I do should be kept.  So you must navigate to wherever it is over and
over, while working on windows.  I do know a few short cuts to use
but still the basic fact is that overtime a very lot of time goes
into just moving around on winows.

> ......  That's the only way I can make sense of the
> paragraph above.

Maybe because you left out most of it?

>> I had forgotten about smbmount but that too is not the same as being
>> able to cd around with cd //host/share
>> smbmount adds another layer of complexity... and something more to
>> umount or maintain in mounted state... would also add a few more
>> characters to each address.

> In order to cd to a file system (like smbfs) that file system must
> first be 'mounted' on a mount-point e.g. /mnt/ or /shares/ or wherever
> you choose to put it.  That mounting can be automated and transparent
> to the user, as Dirk said, but it must be done somehow before you can
> cd to it.

Hence my comment "smbmount adds another layer of complexity..."
Hence my comment "would also add a few more characters to each
address." 

Someone has to configure it... and manintain it thru a  new install.
If or when that comes up.  It may not be terribly difficult... but it
does need to be done.

> Just like partitons like /root, /var, /tmp, /usr, /home and the rest
> must be mounted before they can be used by anyone, including the OS.
> This is done automatically during bootup so you don't need to do it
> yourself.  Same with network shares.

Its done automatically only if you make that happen by some
configuration.  It may be worth it though... and like I said.. I'd
forgotten about smbmount and really have never gotten envolved with
automounting things...other than one major nfs share keep on a solaris
zfs server.

automounting is somewhat new in linux... it was not commonly used when
I started out.

> I hope I'm not misunderstanding and giving you an unneeded lecture :o)

Its always a good thing to have the basics hammered into your head.

You might notice that most boxing matches are won by really basic
techniques like keeping that jab out there.  Or slipping punches that
would really do damage if you didn't know how to move with it when you
can. 

So no harm revisiting basic stuff. 

Maybe you didn't notice my reference to cygwin bash on windows being
able to navigate via UNC.

It takes only creating shares to offer thru samba, for cygwin bash to
be able to navigate them with cd //host/share.  No mounting, or if
there is, I didn't have to specifically configure it.

Smb is native to windows... so maybe that is the reason.

[gentoo-user] Re: Abut smb:// aware tools

[Harry Putnam]

Paul Hartman <paul.hartman+gentoo@gmail.com> writes:

>> Emacs is said to be able to do this using tramp but I haven't ever
>> gotten it to work.
>>
>> Konqueror can do it... but I don't run kde, and don't really want to
>> fiddle with it in that direction.
>
> Midnight Commander can do it.

Haa, there is an old time tool... what do I need to use  in `eix' to
find it.

`eix midnight' fails as does `eix commander'

Does it have a different name in portage?

I did find a vimcommander... maybe that will have the functionality
too, since it says it has a commander style interface.

[gentoo-user] Re: Abut smb:// aware tools

[walt]

On 10/03/2009 05:55 AM, Paul Hartman wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 3:56 PM, Harry Putnam<reader@newsguy.com>  wrote:
>> Do we have tools other than Konqueror that are aware of smb/UNK
>> addressing?
>>
>> Before you answer please note that:
>> I know about ssh
>> I know about fuse
>> I know about mount -tcifs
>>
>> I'd really like to be able to use UNK addressing from the cmd line.
>>
>>   cd //host/share
>>
>> I don't now how many of you have noticed but bash shell from cygwin on
>> windows has that capability built in.  Or maybe it comes from windows
>> env.
>>   You can do `cd //linux-host/share' in a bash terminal
>>
>> If command line smb/UNK is not on without lots of diddling around, what
>> about some file managing tool that does it like Konqueror does.
>>
>> Emacs is said to be able to do this using tramp but I haven't ever
>> gotten it to work.
>>
>> Konqueror can do it... but I don't run kde, and don't really want to
>> fiddle with it in that direction.
>
> Midnight Commander can do it.

Nifty, I didn't know that.  Amazing what mc can do.  Couple of points
that are not obvious in case Harry wants to try mc:  it needs to be
compiled with the samba USE flag set;  and you access your samba shares
using the "Right" or "Left" dropdown menus at the top of the mc window.

This function of mc (being an old app) I'm guessing is what inspired
the similar functions in konqueror and nautilus, but I'm not sure about
the order of events.

Thanks for the tip.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Abut smb:// aware tools

[Sebastian Beßler]

Am 03.10.2009 17:31, schrieb Harry Putnam:

> Haa, there is an old time tool... what do I need to use  in `eix' to
> find it.
> 
> `eix midnight' fails as does `eix commander'

metatron@DarkStation ~ $ eix -S midnight
* app-misc/mc
     Available versions:  4.6.1-r4 4.7.0_pre1 (~)4.7.0_pre2
(~)4.7.0_pre2-r1 {7zip X chdir +edit gpm ncurses nls samba (+)slang unicode}
     Homepage:            http://www.midnight-commander.org
     Description:         GNU Midnight Commander is a text based file
manager

Greetings

Sebastian

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Abut smb:// aware tools

[Dirk Heinrichs]

Am Samstag 03 Oktober 2009 17:27:19 schrieb Harry Putnam:
> I started my computer life on linux 1996..
>
> automounting is somewhat new in linux... it was not commonly used when
> I started out.

Hmm, "Not commonly used", don't know. First versions of autofs date back to 
April 97, amd is much older, I think. So no, automounting is NOT new in Linux, 
it's there for over a decade now.

Bye...

	Dirk 

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Abut smb:// aware tools

[Dirk Heinrichs]

Am Samstag 03 Oktober 2009 17:31:28 schrieb Harry Putnam:
> `eix midnight' fails as does `eix commander'
> 
> Does it have a different name in portage?

No, it has the same name as everywhere: mc ;-)

Bye...

	Dirk

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Abut smb:// aware tools

[Dirk Heinrichs]

Hi,

I really wonder about this discussion. "This tool can do it, that tool can do 
it, the other one, too". WTF?

Just mount the damn share and _EVERY_ tool can access it. So what?

Bye...

	Dirk

[gentoo-user] Re: Abut smb:// aware tools

[walt]

On 10/03/2009 08:27 AM, Harry Putnam wrote:

 > ...
> It takes only creating shares to offer thru samba, for cygwin bash to
> be able to navigate them with cd //host/share.  No mounting, or if
> there is, I didn't have to specifically configure it.
>
> Smb is native to windows... so maybe that is the reason.

Right.  Windows does indeed mount filesystems but does it without
asking you, much like linux mounts /root without asking.

So, I'm thinking you might be very interested in trying Paul's
suggested 'mc', which has its own built-in command line of sorts,
although it's not actually a full bash prompt IIUC.

Depend on what you need to do while visiting a share, it might
be perfect for your purpose.  (See Paul's reply.)

Re: [gentoo-user] Abut smb:// aware tools

[Dirk Heinrichs]

Am Freitag 02 Oktober 2009 22:56:31 schrieb Harry Putnam:
> I'd really like to be able to use UNK addressing from the cmd line.
> 
>   cd //host/share

BTW: Is the share served by a Windows or Linux machine and what OS is the 
client? If it's Linux only, you'd better be using NFS.

Bye...

	Dirk

[gentoo-user] Re: Abut smb:// aware tools

[Harry Putnam]

Dirk Heinrichs <dirk.heinrichs@online.de> writes:

> Hmm, "Not commonly used", don't know. First versions of autofs date back to 
> April 97, amd is much older, I think. So no, automounting is NOT new in Linux, 
> it's there for over a decade now.

At nearly 70, I can call a decade `fairly recent'.

I have to beg to differ here... I don't mean your statements about when
it appeared...

Linux is much older than 1997... and as I said I started a little
before that... At that time there were not many users at all not to
mention users using automounting. I'd hazard a guess that total users
was not much over 150,000 or so... just an idle guess though.

The newbies like me were definitely not using it.... linux then took much
more config than it does today... even on gentoo today.  You could easily
spend 2 or more wks getting X up... or even getting it to boot.

Building your own kernel was well out of the grasp of newbies at that
time.

So in that atmosphere... its not true that automount was in common use.

[gentoo-user] Re: Abut smb:// aware tools

[Harry Putnam]

Dirk Heinrichs <dirk.heinrichs@online.de> writes:

> Hi,
>
> I really wonder about this discussion. "This tool can do it, that
>tool can do it, the other one, too". WTF?

No problem, don't read it.

> Just mount the damn share and _EVERY_ tool can access it. So what?

Settle down bub... you're not in a barroom here.  Ease up.

[gentoo-user] Re: Abut smb:// aware tools

[Harry Putnam]

Dirk Heinrichs <dirk.heinrichs@online.de> writes:

> Am Samstag 03 Oktober 2009 17:31:28 schrieb Harry Putnam:
>> `eix midnight' fails as does `eix commander'
>> 
>> Does it have a different name in portage?
>
> No, it has the same name as everywhere: mc ;-)

Dirk, Your wisacre additions are really starting to wear on me.  Have
you been on a binge or something... and need a few days rest.

If it had the same name everywhere... Paul Hartman wouldn't have
called it `Midnight Commander' would he.

So it has at least 2 names....   Jesus bud, lighten up or quit the
thread,  if it getting to be too much for you.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Abut smb:// aware tools

[Dirk Heinrichs]

Am Samstag 03 Oktober 2009 20:10:30 schrieb Harry Putnam:
> Dirk Heinrichs <dirk.heinrichs@online.de> writes:
> > Hmm, "Not commonly used", don't know. First versions of autofs date back
> > to April 97, amd is much older, I think. So no, automounting is NOT new
> > in Linux, it's there for over a decade now.
> 
> At nearly 70, I can call a decade `fairly recent'.
> 
> I have to beg to differ here... I don't mean your statements about when
> it appeared...
> 
> Linux is much older than 1997... and as I said I started a little
> before that... At that time there were not many users at all not to
> mention users using automounting. I'd hazard a guess that total users
> was not much over 150,000 or so... just an idle guess though.

I wouldn't even dare to guess :)

> The newbies like me were definitely not using it.... linux then took much
> more config than it does today... even on gentoo today.  You could easily
> spend 2 or more wks getting X up... or even getting it to boot.

Yeah, I know. I started with Linux roughly one or two years before you did.

> Building your own kernel was well out of the grasp of newbies at that
> time.

Then there must have been two types of newbies ;)

> So in that atmosphere... its not true that automount was in common use.

As I wrote I don't know. I used it, but again I wouldn't dare to guess how 
many others did.

Bye...

	Dirk

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Abut smb:// aware tools

[Dirk Heinrichs]

Am Samstag 03 Oktober 2009 20:16:48 schrieb Harry Putnam:
> > No, it has the same name as everywhere: mc ;-)
> 
> Dirk, Your wisacre additions are really starting to wear on me.  Have
> you been on a binge or something... and need a few days rest.

1) You've seen the smiley?
2) You got the package name, didn't you?

Bye...

	Dirk

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Abut smb:// aware tools

[Dirk Heinrichs]

Am Samstag 03 Oktober 2009 20:14:16 schrieb Harry Putnam:
> Dirk Heinrichs <dirk.heinrichs@online.de> writes:
> > I really wonder about this discussion. "This tool can do it, that
> >tool can do it, the other one, too". WTF?
> 
> No problem, don't read it.

That's really hard to do :)

Bye...

	Dirk

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Abut smb:// aware tools

[Paul Hartman]

On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 10:31 AM, walt <w41ter@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/03/2009 05:55 AM, Paul Hartman wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 3:56 PM, Harry Putnam<reader@newsguy.com>  wrote:
>>>
>>> Do we have tools other than Konqueror that are aware of smb/UNK
>>> addressing?
>>>
>>> Before you answer please note that:
>>> I know about ssh
>>> I know about fuse
>>> I know about mount -tcifs
>>>
>>> I'd really like to be able to use UNK addressing from the cmd line.
>>>
>>>  cd //host/share
>>>
>>> I don't now how many of you have noticed but bash shell from cygwin on
>>> windows has that capability built in.  Or maybe it comes from windows
>>> env.
>>>  You can do `cd //linux-host/share' in a bash terminal
>>>
>>> If command line smb/UNK is not on without lots of diddling around, what
>>> about some file managing tool that does it like Konqueror does.
>>>
>>> Emacs is said to be able to do this using tramp but I haven't ever
>>> gotten it to work.
>>>
>>> Konqueror can do it... but I don't run kde, and don't really want to
>>> fiddle with it in that direction.
>>
>> Midnight Commander can do it.
>
> Nifty, I didn't know that.  Amazing what mc can do.  Couple of points
> that are not obvious in case Harry wants to try mc:  it needs to be
> compiled with the samba USE flag set;  and you access your samba shares
> using the "Right" or "Left" dropdown menus at the top of the mc window.
>
> This function of mc (being an old app) I'm guessing is what inspired
> the similar functions in konqueror and nautilus, but I'm not sure about
> the order of events.
>
> Thanks for the tip.

You can also use mc's special notation for connecting from the shell
prompt inside the program. I highly recommend RTFM since I don't know
how to do it specifically and only tried it once a long time ago, so
this may be completely wrong. :) But from memory it was _something_
similar to this:

cd /#smb:hostname/share

You can also connect to things like FTP and fish (ssh/scp) with
similar notation from within mc. Check for mc's VFS in the docs or
google to see the actual instructions.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Abut smb:// aware tools

[Paul Hartman]

On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 10:31 AM, Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> wrote:
> Paul Hartman <paul.hartman+gentoo@gmail.com> writes:
>
>>> Emacs is said to be able to do this using tramp but I haven't ever
>>> gotten it to work.
>>>
>>> Konqueror can do it... but I don't run kde, and don't really want to
>>> fiddle with it in that direction.
>>
>> Midnight Commander can do it.
>
> Haa, there is an old time tool... what do I need to use  in `eix' to
> find it.
>
> `eix midnight' fails as does `eix commander'
>
> Does it have a different name in portage?
>
> I did find a vimcommander... maybe that will have the functionality
> too, since it says it has a commander style interface.

It's tricky since the program name is Midnight Commander but the
package & executable name is "mc". You can use the -S switch for eix
to make it search descriptions as well as the package name when
something's pkgname is not obvious. For example:

$ eix -S midnight.commander
[I] app-misc/mc
     Available versions:  4.6.1-r4 4.7.0_pre1 (~)4.7.0_pre2
(~)4.7.0_pre2-r1 {7zip X chdir +edit gpm ncurses nls samba (+)slang
unicode}
     Installed versions:  4.7.0_pre2-r1(12:24:04 AM 09/06/2009)(X edit
gpm nls samba slang -chdir)
     Homepage:            http://www.midnight-commander.org
     Description:         GNU Midnight Commander is a text based file manager

:)

[gentoo-user] Re: Abut smb:// aware tools

[Harry Putnam]

walt <w41ter@gmail.com> writes:


[...]

>> Nifty, I didn't know that.  Amazing what mc can do.  Couple of points
> that are not obvious in case Harry wants to try mc:  it needs to be
> compiled with the samba USE flag set;  and you access your samba shares
> using the "Right" or "Left" dropdown menus at the top of the mc window.

Thanks... 

I never liked mc even in the old days...  always preferring the cmd
line or emacs, But that aside yes it does work.  And just for your own
info you can cd around direct from the cmd line too... just need the
right syntax... and get prompted for a passwd.

 (cd /#smb:host/share)

But the interface is so far removed from a common shell prompt and
seems really crippled by comparison, that it would take more than a
little diddling around to get some real use out of it.  Appears not to
have cmd memory or readline type history at the cmd prompt... at least
not by default or with some reasonable key press.

Also it appears not to be able to execute commands on non-local fs. 

After cd'ing into a remote machine and being prompted for passwd... if
I type `ls' <enter> it brings up a red error saying 

               Error!  
Cannot execute commands on non-local filesystems.

Maybe all this can be configured away.... I don't think I want to mess
with it really... but yes it does have the capability.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Abut smb:// aware tools

[Neil Walker]

Harry Putnam wrote:
> Dirk Heinrichs <dirk.heinrichs@online.de> writes:
>
>   
>> Hmm, "Not commonly used", don't know. First versions of autofs date back to 
>> April 97, amd is much older, I think. So no, automounting is NOT new in Linux, 
>> it's there for over a decade now.
>>     
>
> At nearly 70, I can call a decade `fairly recent'.
>   

Quite honestly, your age is irrelevant in this context.

> Linux is much older than 1997... 

Not at all. Linus made his first announcement in August 1991. The first
files appeared on
the Internet in September 1991. It wasn't an operating system at that point.

> The newbies like me were definitely not using it.... linux then took much
> more config than it does today... even on gentoo today.  You could easily
> spend 2 or more wks getting X up... or even getting it to boot.
>   

Hmm. Most of the people who used (actually, played with because it
wasn't a usable operating
system until much later) Linux in the early days came from Minix.
Remember that? Newbies
to Linux were not newbies to computers and operating systems. Far from
it, most were pretty
adept DOS hackers.

> Building your own kernel was well out of the grasp of newbies at that
> time.
>   

Definitely not.

> So in that atmosphere... its not true that automount was in common use.

You seem to have entirely forgotten what Linux actually was in the
1990s. It was actually a hacker's
paradise. There were NO newbies in the sense of people who were new to
computers using Linux. The
very nature of Linux users in those days was that they were
experimental, had some (if not considerable)
knowledge and were keen to try any new gizmo that came along and, if
there wasn't one, develop their
 own. Indeed, that's exactly how and why Linux is where it is now.

FWIW, I have been involved with computers one way or another since 1969
(a few months before Man
set foot upon the moon).



Be lucky,

Neil
http://www.neiljw.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Abut smb:// aware tools

[Neil Walker]

Harry Putnam wrote:
> If it had the same name everywhere... Paul Hartman wouldn't have
> called it `Midnight Commander' would he.
>
> So it has at least 2 names....   Jesus bud, lighten up or quit the
> thread,  if it getting to be too much for you.
>   

It has one name - Midnight Commander - BUT is know just about
everywhere by the abbreviation mc. If you want it in ANY distribution,
you look for mc.

I think you are the one who needs a rest - especially as you are totally
blind to smilies. :P

Be lucky,

Neil
http://www.neiljw.com
 

[gentoo-user] Re: Abut smb:// aware tools

[Harry Putnam]

Neil Walker <neil@ep.mine.nu> writes:

>> Linux is much older than 1997... 

>> Not at all. [...]

I really meant unix... where most of linux cmds and base tools comes
from.  But as people do unix/linux is often thought of as one kind of
thing.

[...]

> Hmm. Most of the people who used (actually, played with because it
> wasn't a usable operating
> system until much later) Linux in the early days came from Minix.
> Remember that? Newbies
> to Linux were not newbies to computers and operating systems. Far from
> it, most were pretty
> adept DOS hackers.

[...]

> You seem to have entirely forgotten what Linux actually was in the
> 1990s. It was actually a hacker's
> paradise. There were NO newbies in the sense of people who were new to
> computers using Linux. The
> very nature of Linux users in those days was that they were
> experimental, had some (if not considerable)
> knowledge and were keen to try any new gizmo that came along and, if
> there wasn't one, develop their
>  own. Indeed, that's exactly how and why Linux is where it is now.

No I didn't forget...

I knew nothing whatever about a computer in the 90s you are talking
about. My only knowledge of a computer came from things like seeing
the girl at the unemployment office bring up my records.  And not even
all unemployment offices had computers yet.

My first encounter with a computer or home computing started in
1996. Right from scratch.

I think you've got this a little back assward.. lots of commentary
with `quite honestly, `definitely not' and other sorts of comments
indicating a deep knowledge are a bunch of hooey. 

You may remember some things... but you do not have a good picture of
what the lower echelons was like.  

That hardcore of experimenters that are the folks who really put linux
on the map was growing rapidly..  Just as the new user base was. 

In the yrs I mentioned (96 upward) newbies were flocking to linux.
Some old timers complained about it bitterly on linux News/Mail
groups.  How the linux network was getting watered down with a bunch
of numbskulls and etc.

> FWIW, I have been involved with computers one way or another since 1969
> (a few months before Man
> set foot upon the moon).

Then you would have had quite a different view of the lower levels of
the linux movement.  And it was a movement then...

Yes there were a hard core of quite adept hackers... many of them were
very willing to offer help to newcomers back then.  All the main mail
groups or newsgroups had a cadre of true experts... much like today. 

That core of experienced grew quickly too.

There were lots of meetings around the country of the `lugs' where newer
people brought machines and more experienced users helped them get an
OS on it and running.  You don't hear that anymore, the OSs are much
easier to install and configure.

One guy from Alaska... whos name I have forgotten... took me in hand
for several wks... walked me thru lots of stuff off the lists. and
even by phone with me in California, It's really a shame I've
forgotten his name... kind of embarrassing, because he spent a good
bit of time coaching me for a while.

But the influx was already growing quickly as can be seen from the
huge user base that happened in those 10-12 yrs.  So at least from 96
on your picture ain't cutting it.  I'd guess the user base expanded
several hundred percent from say 95 to 2005.

To say there weren't linux newbies is silly. Not to mention wrong.  

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Abut smb:// aware tools

[Dirk Heinrichs]

Am Samstag 03 Oktober 2009 20:59:50 schrieb Harry Putnam:
 
> I never liked mc even in the old days...

So you actually knew mc before?

>  (cd /#smb:host/share)

Again, another tool, another syntax. Once you simply mount the share, the path 
will be the same no matter what tool you use to browse it. So why not do the 
simple thing?

Bye...

	Dirk

[gentoo-user] OT: Linux as a first platform? Was: Abut smb:// aware tools

[Stroller]

In separate posts, Harry Putnam wrote:
> I started my computer life on linux 1996.. only moved to windows for
> some things when editing video (I like the adobe tools... and linux
> just doesn't have anything remotely comparable.)
> ...
>
> I knew nothing whatever about a computer in the 90s you are talking
> about. My only knowledge of a computer came from things like seeing
> the girl at the unemployment office bring up my records.  And not even
> all unemployment offices had computers yet.
>
> My first encounter with a computer or home computing started in
> 1996. Right from scratch.

Hi there,

Out of curiosity, why did you choose Linux as your first platform?

I ask this not to criticise, or anything, but I'm just really curious  
how you heard of it.

My family had a BBC Micro as a home computer when I was a kid and then  
later (but still late 1980s) a 286 or so running DOS, but I returned  
to computing at around the same time, 1996. Someone gave me an old PC  
which I got running and I then did my first self-build of a c 150mhz  
Pentium-class system.

At that time it seemed "obvious" to me to install Windows 95. I had  
used Windows 3.1 at the mother-in-law's on a handful of occasions, and  
seen it in other people's offices. Win95 had been released with  
fanfare the previous year.

I can only guess that you had some previous background in electronics,  
because I did not learn of Linux until c 2000 (although I was inactive  
in computing for a couple of years 1998 - 1999). Until then (pretty  
much) as far as I was concerned, "all PCs run DOS or Windows".

Could you possibly explain what led to to choose Linux as your first  
platform? I would love to hear from anyone else who has managed to  
completely skip the mainstream o/s (by which I mean Windows and Mac).

Cheers,

Stroller.

[gentoo-user] Re: OT: Linux as a first platform? Was: Abut smb:// aware tools

[Harry Putnam]

Stroller <stroller@stellar.eclipse.co.uk> writes:

> In separate posts, Harry Putnam wrote:
>> I started my computer life on linux 1996.. only moved to windows for
>> some things when editing video (I like the adobe tools... and linux
>> just doesn't have anything remotely comparable.)
>> ...
>>
>> I knew nothing whatever about a computer in the 90s you are talking
>> about. My only knowledge of a computer came from things like seeing
>> the girl at the unemployment office bring up my records.  And not even
>> all unemployment offices had computers yet.
>>
>> My first encounter with a computer or home computing started in
>> 1996. Right from scratch.
>
> Hi there,
>
> Out of curiosity, why did you choose Linux as your first platform?

[...]

> My family had a BBC Micro as a home computer when I was a kid and then
> later (but still late 1980s) a 286 or so running DOS, but I returned
> to computing at around the same time, 1996. Someone gave me an old PC
> which I got running and I then did my first self-build of a c 150mhz
> Pentium-class system.
>
> At that time it seemed "obvious" to me to install Windows 95. I had
> used Windows 3.1 at the mother-in-law's on a handful of occasions, and
> seen it in other people's offices. Win95 had been released with
> fanfare the previous year.

Quite an interesting story.  

> I can only guess that you had some previous background in electronics,
> because I did not learn of Linux until c 2000 (although I was inactive
> in computing for a couple of years 1998 - 1999). Until then (pretty
> much) as far as I was concerned, "all PCs run DOS or Windows".

> Could you possibly explain what led to to choose Linux as your first
> platform? I would love to hear from anyone else who has managed to
> completely skip the mainstream o/s (by which I mean Windows and Mac).

Sure... nothing more inviting to a windbag than a request to talk
about himself...

My background may be a bit different from most computer oriented
people.

I was born in Wyoming.  Way out in the boonies.  Things there were
backward even for the times.  We had no Electricity or running water.
Left there at age 7.

Later after our family had moved first to Las Vegas and then to
California. I became a helper in a big shipyard in San Diego.  My dad
worked there and helped me get the job... I was 17.

I learned the trade of welding... which carried me pretty much the
rest of my life.  I quit high school about that same time.  And only
got my GED years and years later when I was about 50.

I moved to Chicago in 1972 and thru work in a local shipyard... now
gone, I became a construction boilermaker.  Working in power plants and
refineries all around the midwest and west.

So I have no higher education... every little bit I managed to get
thru my hard head is self taught... or maybe taught by help lists and
reading along with lots of experimentation.

So, finally cutting to the chase now, I got a divorce around 1987 and
went back out to California where union construction wages for
boilermakers was quite a lot higher.

After a couple years I got together with a girl out there and started
seeing a lot of her... around 1992.  By 1994 we were married... 

She worked as a clerical worker on the campus of the University of Cal
at Santa Barbara... (a job had brought me up their from the LA area
around 1992. Building an Exxon refinery about 20 miles north of Santa
Barbara.  It turned in to a 2 yr stint which is a long time on one
project for a boilermaker... our jobs are usually measured in a few
mnths or less).

She worked with computers every day.. but I still knew nothing
whatever about them.  She also was very good friends with a couple for
yrs, The guy was the `network' guy for UCSB a network system admin on
most of there computer networks.  Largely unix of one stripe or
another.

(Yeah I'm finally getting there) 

Over a yr or two I too became very good friends with him.  As it
turned out he had a son who was a troublesome handful.. a kid about 13
or so at the time.  Me and this kid hit it off pretty well and I sort
of took it on myself to try to help him along... it turned out he did
more helping along than I did.

He was a linux advocate... a slackware guy, having learned about Unix
from his dad.. and I guess Linux too..  It was really him who got
me interested....  I started to see where that `computer stuff' was
really nothing more than a very highly developed tool.

I was a guy who liked good tools and had used many of every
description.  My young friend taught me very basic scripting and from
there it was a love affair... I saw it as a really advanced and
adjustable tool.  I'll admit it has been quite a battle.  That young
man was an order of magnitude brighter than me so he was getting well
into it... but I caught hell for several yrs.... still really.

I've got to admit to finding it very hard to learn my way around with
computer languages...Or admin'ing linux, at that time the languages
weren't really even programming languages (I mean the ones I took up)
just shell, and after a couple more yrs, perl.

So my first brush with computers was a computer running slackware.  I
hung out with the kid for a day every week.. sometimes 2.  I couldn't
really help but get interested since he was such a stricken linux
advocate.  (aside: That kid kind of got his act together after a few
yrs and wandered off to windows... but I stayed with linux).

Later my wife began to want a home computer... not many people had
them yet around 1995... She of course used the windows 95 OS on the
job and was also an experienced dos user.  But she really knew nothing
at all under the hood with windows and certainly nothing about linux.

For my wifes birth day that year, I got her a computer running a
fairly new OS called windows 95...  I think it was 1995 but could have
been late 1994... It wasn't long before I was thinking of trying to
install slackware on it.  I chickened out for fear of messing up her
computer and work... and got my own..  The network guy came over and
got us online. Somehow I got on to redhat.

I think my young friend had mentioned redhat disparagingly as supposed
to be easier than slackware.  I think redhat was in version 3
something... but not far from the release of version 4.  Being easier than
slackware sounded good to me.

I stayed with redhat for several yrs and tinkered with openbsd, tried
one of the very early free versions of Solaris for a while, tried
Debian for a while, but going back to redhat (fedora)
mostly... finally left fedora not long after that split.

Must have stumbling across gentoo maybe 5 yrs ago... maybe less or
more a bit.  I guess it would have been not long after fedora showed
up... that was in 2005 I think, so now I think about it... I must have
come to gentoo only about 4 yrs ago.

Now I'm retired and back in the midwest, been retired a good
while.. so have time to tinker with linux all I want.  My main desktop
is Gentoo.. and I have an Opensolaris machine running a zfs
server... and 4 windows based machines.  One is my wifes. (yet
another wife). 

But I keep two P4s (Those are getting a bit behind the times now) for
work on graphics, video, photo setups, and general tinkering with
adobe tools.. like photoshop and Illustrator.  Two of my
favorites. And finally a laptop running Vista.

Ok.. wake up, or if you aren't asleep or gone away in boredom... That
was the end.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: Linux as a first platform? Was: Abut smb:// aware tools

[Stroller]

On 4 Oct 2009, at 01:17, Harry Putnam wrote:
> ...
> She worked with computers every day.. but I still knew nothing
> whatever about them.  She also was very good friends with a couple for
> yrs, The guy was the `network' guy for UCSB a network system admin on
> most of there computer networks.  Largely unix of one stripe or
> another.
>
> (Yeah I'm finally getting there)
>
> Over a yr or two I too became very good friends with him.  As it
> turned out he had a son who was a troublesome handful.. a kid about 13
> or so at the time.  Me and this kid hit it off pretty well and I sort
> of took it on myself to try to help him along... it turned out he did
> more helping along than I did.
>
> He was a linux advocate... a slackware guy, having learned about Unix
> from his dad.. and I guess Linux too..  It was really him who got
> me interested....  I started to see where that `computer stuff' was
> really nothing more than a very highly developed tool.
>
> I was a guy who liked good tools and had used many of every
> description.  ...


Many thanks for your informative anecdote. I enjoyed very much  
learning about you.

Stroller.