From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5ADEF1392E8 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2021 14:21:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D5B06E0D68; Sun, 25 Jul 2021 14:21:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ot1-x336.google.com (mail-ot1-x336.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::336]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 824FBE0D47 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2021 14:21:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ot1-x336.google.com with SMTP id 48-20020a9d0bb30000b02904cd671b911bso7289773oth.1 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2021 07:21:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:openpgp:autocrypt:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ipEciA3IL8u8MJ4RW+g66IH7SBYA4Fv06dCaAGNSZOc=; b=DFksc9eEG+jPFtQGI/yWEjn6sNf2yy7EL7/AGSFVXLxoqMT6mccsCw3Vm7fFI8Ziji IM48uyYzXwP/WOOlBOhTrEDvRCr2uRtcIKEsRlzg7jVKZXsiGoy1M5kVKcHFoptzELzU bJ3iVErdqja6w3onyjg9rQPfnZ3zJswkYQGpPAhP4J/R8O/ouMgX0fy+6tJQetVHj5a7 L0YP9harseyU4EvWSVMf2uBcVU8mtqoNs6HDYvKlM2TgvZz+bfitTHSfV9T/dDzxK/vG 5/jor0bT66O9Tb3ibCU0J1lRJ1pO5VYf61fkPNuxlpg/cqGx13+yTpOAWciuPiyM77QU Haww== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:openpgp:autocrypt :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=ipEciA3IL8u8MJ4RW+g66IH7SBYA4Fv06dCaAGNSZOc=; b=Q1WJeMXDSceii/iHbFsWN4+wmcBKu8sUth27+soKhw9YW3mDMe/fa11DLA83otwDA+ Ezfl3A/HOwkVadGlz6OnSApUvTU7izcUs2BUEe8AsP8JCclQilE1SrJsH2UN552wfIjq Qb05h9YOuyyLc2Fjn3IULXAi/EplYVU9GqaYUg4uS0sQQ6hPWvP1BCLeQOpkh7z1qddO MpOL7HUhoMLozNg32UK7IYBHsFMBDb9tYMpCQOCMh/8bpQDVxFxuJkLziRWAxjf137RY Mj4OciXo6KauBondKQM78YMgGXudOi3RnlJ+0G9auBUl6UPUmAgA7B0ePH/CpEIey5Ve 2puA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533EX6Y+q5yUq22VzbA8x9+XMTj8jMVNe+Ay23gI1QIdUXkwXits ybXq0EWUEaKYwqYv1UTiwWE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzS8fYmo7dZDnDrwlOfWwrAxiLVhTHBYDu+HYPDLjLYKNgX9qa7hmfGeZhp1MrD57fLApoG/g== X-Received: by 2002:a9d:75d4:: with SMTP id c20mr8702237otl.85.1627222861694; Sun, 25 Jul 2021 07:21:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.100] (adsl-074-188-240-053.sip.asm.bellsouth.net. [74.188.240.53]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f3sm7033729otc.49.2021.07.25.07.21.00 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 25 Jul 2021 07:21:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] --depclean wants to remove openrc. Yikes! To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org References: <20210721221350.4d14da7f@ventiloplattform.tastytea.de> <20210721212705.23179178@digimed.co.uk> <20210725100344.34490089@digimed.co.uk> <60FD5869.2050406@youngman.org.uk> From: Dale Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=rdalek1967@gmail.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBFxc7MgBEAC+zrgEdqJJiDe/UDAB+ScmferXWfJTVjbVT2T4DQ7jiLrgP9aNUo1HioNF mrU3JPOCR32gvZyTbY1+niO5+VSo/+pSqQ785h6ZDj1klMkrg6tEzGnf2MNBpBj4houZwxQ+ WDKKTg2M9F+lv8wTIdR/JQn+hSviktLMtrghQlyLhpapsLXWLA6gMFebpQYwxUwemvan8ddX lQvJe9FGyFYvBi0dp1gl10F2O+DVZJxvX8xkX+yImVlhVJiC31gXHRcj+Qlo7gprlU7TIieF Uow6/ZvYKJ26pztVdFCg5w0rMJkF/x8Zd4A6wnuptiAPmWaQ1+YKgYDonbDUgwqFSx5/lN5z DGZ4LlioxeUTTPVvZsqBIeDz6jNFA583OYbo1/S26dqrvTFf2DKlsvoDpVfAhNlwJPjoixs0 X3FNqPv+M10n4kq5Iz7Q9E3O4s/nfFIYGocEslVka7zZPkXSaHbsn+KJlY8XV6qxtCEdh0/V XX1+1aU2J74M0JikWhpwxTZ1dP5aOyWSPPEgFFIRW6xwwC02SoRH9a7mggfGYp/YjPlONNaT SCL8sgRfvmq3D0XTbLyTjSbExxkfKDmbePQagawDE3TlI/oivHf1JaAcbwMb3LZuU4TGcOIl 5D+x7q0MUIeCop0ZFOwAnqW3AVVNvsBkv2KN+IHJryWAf0/iMQARAQABtBtEYWxlIDxyZGFs ZWsxOTY3QGdtYWlsLmNvbT6JAk4EEwEIADgWIQTZ7suruPBaS60bCYXvEM/XWu+ZnAUCXFzs yAIbIwULCQgHAgYVCgkICwIEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAAKCRDvEM/XWu+ZnN+7D/4/1dNG4aCz0+v+ 0dcjV5tY1feYEWCdHKyDzxWBxlCpd/0NPRQeNY4VMjbCl/sq7GkXi/c2SbfWDQ5BQRkkExG1 pSwuXSIehGok/4fpTi3HDAguRvzdCqlKPt7me05FyiC/WnpY5GOlJ3ruGw2qABv/RmV2q5b/ tkq7h1y1f16DTNr3/nsj8HzHcrHdXdL4kaYChSOe/dbQR9Stqak7eMyR+iwvrJMNF/CGl70P 2x5ybsXMDzRVOqNcpa5ZdhEMTVh6+vC1SOmm1BFMF8XCqBEvBbcHWDQmGYTdNCsS/ADm8CBl gvjJgLdIsAzoMu4WHQDFnzXAoArqFWgAf53isOS4AWrv29tF9b8Aa1vb7h5JEa+ArcMsA6Gl X38+GY6WXXaxKI9n3PTCWu9tPGnRh7mABjnwEosDDqmzw8aTAYECb3avDuGY2rmcjgh4H6RE w08d63j1T4d5J9wlm4TGtW/VHgbUFkATEdH3Acl/EjFiyqTiX7p8kU6Reu5enIkogA93xoQh Rmy7ZiST/5LN+ZkaOdyjIw0L+5KalslN9SKt809YxgJ6kPo657LNTFPiFvFA46/SEWcBYrzq Xk0wEW0gBRWf+BqN0qRhU0/EQ+QfRdLLFg2xtUePwlheYLXxfyDLrdCCOLWYpkzbjCZHLS4u 69smbvR9S9KBDNzJybxEWrkCDQRcXOzIARAA5IGRWTqaM44IJgBYghZg2fGj0Am7KWPhE7V7 T/EEe7vVSUEFqHtlHzI4ZK6Q0AZ9uAEjE8IJIQ7KoTjzNqAtabP0vp3s0szgtJlsZ+8vGKlQ my7fvzSrdoQL0Xn7CEwJYFXJ1EMUcYIQeoHG1cUAaXx73k9BFbjwjnUeMrqlV/ZovQlg7duW nESfQ7HZu5NrtYyY3jPMUouxiO9WQPh+IHxZbt1absF2VcvRAymD32RxGvMPbw6ChMRD/p9O 4PH7M5rXaxr78NXQX9E48vrI00f1cYb9NSN1HnSV8cW3jKObVjdBk6jPQwrMvdpgdQhUB9aZ HS/9mC9mmAgiXKyCpzXe7FPB6QznSfn4GIaC/luy1e6SLUkJhRK/niB+gq+Mfxg2zXNuDUTI cMGmpDCp3kgUoorkaltk8RW09io95BkXrGhcDNuSGZfAParBc7RXyYpbIcax8St7tEAd2oFh 4seYOPUlzuhGrPpqR/91wrFc4E1260GKauSr4UhMJv6tygBwyC0mmBMKi+ZXw6ZdZxA5fg7y 35P3TILjznCXXTDgRHq9A3NknKRMcgFacX6eIhANkMFo6oJVjuEgy1dvu1wFfDq7c+i8GAHu L4pYzyXYu6PporlNNU0xSwdVgzM/uuK0lt+UxCimgC+YR3IezgDcbfudb7h9dGIwL+bbPL0A EQEAAYkCNgQYAQgAIBYhBNnuy6u48FpLrRsJhe8Qz9da75mcBQJcXOzIAhsMAAoJEO8Qz9da 75mcXZ4P/1YXgWDZek7mhzrf6uaQzMxa92P89HeWz4PlgB/32symeEFAV04WazzBZffI8AYY rGA1Xmu/2VaB9+FOODyKhUWBc2UL0NRWBk6POwboyTdKlclmpixaN9zLcBt0YLejoRfN1B/5 aQf9/lUDZMnAiCyz0FgeqEMUshldmwWC35RqnjrCbbuk2vIqSH6BLDIXU6jQrLHE1DF0ai41 wLtQFAFXPhn45n0ZwYhVs4Z32z4sjXrIvgBgCaXa4HM+L1Klne0KiNM8ReFTTpTE0SgyDOSZ O3MOa2n77i6JbVtsbiFYnNeP3J9S/l3jevGpZEtNQOKrIm1MW8jGuHWtsDeMkT/mCcSodlkt PxIo+mMK9GpGvG2hW80LiohqNfUbNwAmr3blOYY4URPXPRnEnPs4pmTmL5owjw2dkg145i9I D42Tq+XZ6YtWt3SGzGbAYow6XwTwZ5NFAzV9UQuCGrDw4KWan6O6Z+VIYWsn0UMZlu1Obxna aocofkaUCbISK26kImuD1aA8juSHC18Qv1xUage6/UakbSxyDtACqt6hOVFKX3IA59ApdNRT +2x3iCmlvF9MJsGgFq6IpqL+Fk7iWV8Kjbz0wQOId6N9+JdQh3LrLaS7a1PowUm1z9DK5/O0 Yg+gpDnEOOFI7WM5u7a7FSM2Z/LXGVwel/0eWvLk9tN6 Message-ID: <877370fd-e537-795a-bb23-87889b051cc8@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2021 09:20:59 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/60.0 SeaMonkey/2.53.8 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Archives-Salt: 37f19c7e-d4a6-4913-81f3-e28bb9372770 X-Archives-Hash: c863e09ef02f5ace8112e55c7c61965b Alan Mackenzie wrote: > Hello, Wol. > > On Sun, Jul 25, 2021 at 13:26:17 +0100, Wols Lists wrote: >> On 25/07/21 12:47, Alan Mackenzie wrote: >>>> They are, @system is a set of packages and nothing it it will be >>>>> depcleaned. However, openrc is not part of @system, the virtual is. >>> Ah, that's it. So we have critical system packages which aren't part of >>> @system. I think openrc is a critical system package. >> Well, it's not installed on my new system. I doubt it's installed on any >> new-ish gentoo-gnome systems. So openrc itself can't be critical. > Must you be so objectionably pedantic? It is surely clear that I was > using "openrc" as a metasyntactic variable for "the current init > system". If it wasn't, apologies. > >> It may be critical for *your* system ... :-) > Just as systemd is for your system. If you'd installed daemontools you > would also have come within a keystroke of destroying your system, just > as I did, on attempting emerge --depclean. You would have received no > warning of any kind on installing the package, and there would be no > documentation brought to your attention about the potential catastrophe. > Since it had a package left that satisfies the virtual, it shouldn't warn you.  I don't recall emerge/portage ever warning about removing a unneeded package other than the warning when you run --depclean and it first starts.  As said before, this is really expected behavior.  >> Let's rephrase it - "openrc is one of the (optional) packages that >> satisfied a critical dependency". > If you must. > >> Your problem is caused because you have explicitly installed an >> alternate package that satisfies the same critical dependency. > No, my problem is caused by Gentoo allowing its package system, without > me doing anything strange, to bring my system to within a single > keystroke of destruction. That is a bug in any circumstance. All you > and most of the others have done is pointed out the mechanisms by which > this happened, with the implicit assumption that because that's what > they do, they must be right. They're not at all right. > > Nobody here has made any suggestions as to how this situation might be > prevented in the future, not just for me, but for the next user who > needs daemontools. > >> Cheers, >> Wol But the problem started when you installed a package outside of emerge/portage.  As I pointed out earlier, since you installed a package outside of emerge/portage's knowledge, how do you expect it to know you need both packages?  It's also why I suggested to either create a ebuild or add the packages your mail program depends on to the world file.  Neil came up with what I think is a better solution of using sets.  It sounds like what he is doing so it must work well enough. What we are saying is this.  When you install a package outside emerge/portage's knowledge, you have to manage the things it depends on and the problems that creates.  In your case, daemontools satisfied the virtual and emerge/portage wanted to remove openrc but it did so because you installed another package that satisfies that virtual.  If you hadn't installed the other package that your mail program needs, that would not have happened.  So, you actually created the conditions that made emerge/portage think it was OK to remove the package openrc.  Again, emerge/portage doesn't know you have your mail program installed or what it depends on.  It has no idea why you need BOTH daemontools and openrc installed.  Luckily for you, one isn't a blocker for the other or that is a whole new can of worms.  Also luckily you caught it was about to remove it as well.  The lesson from this, when you install a package outside of emerge/portage and use emerge/portage to install packages it depends on, you have to be careful of the problems it creates.  You can't expect emerge/portage to understand what you are doing and why.  Dale :-)  :-)