Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Very slow POST process

[Michael <confabulate@kintzios.com>]

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On Tuesday 3 December 2024 00:34:13 GMT mad.scientist.at.large@tutanota.com 
wrote:
> usually in laptops which become dirty (they all do, and it's very difficult
> to take them apart and clean and reassemble) the hard drive is the first
> thing to fail completely.  A dying hard drive can easily slow/halt boot. 

The hard drive is good.


> CPU/GPU are likely next along with the power supplies for those chips.  All
> you can really do is take it apart, clean it, and if possible test the hard
> drive etc. in a known good machine.  Alternately, try a different hard
> drive (either a replacement or a small, cheap used one for testing).

The laptop has been used on a cooling pad away from dusty surfaces and cleaned 
regularly.  When I took it apart there was just a little dust on the fan and 
exhaust, because it hadn't been cleaned for ~6 months or so.

The drive is in good health according to smartctl and fully accessible over a 
USB cradle.


> Check
> that all the fans still spin freely after cleaning them, if possible test
> them on a power supply (note that some will be 5V and some 12V, be careful
> to read the labels or start low). 

The fan spins freely when rotated by hand.  It also spins initially when the 
power button is pressed.  However, it stops within a couple of seconds and 
does not start again.

This makes me think ... normally when the fan starts spinning at boot it soon 
climbs up to maximum speed while the BIOS runs through POST.  Then it slows 
down as the BIOS hands over to the OS.  Its connected to the MoBo via 4 wires 
which control its PWM.  The wires are in a good condition, but I have no way 
to check what its miniature socket voltage could be while I power it up starts 
without some spare fan or plug.  Anyway, I don't know if some pull-up resistor 
in the fan control circuit is damaged, but even if it failed wouldn't the fan 
continue spinning but at a low speed?  This one stops dead.  Hence it makes me 
think of a corrupt/damaged MoBo chipset or firmware.  :-/


> I hate working on laptops and AIO desktops, always hard to take them apart
> and put them back together and they both need regular cleaning, before they
> act up (or at least immediately when they start acting up).

Yes, I *really* don't like laptops for a number of reasons, no matter the 
convenience they offer.  The inherent difficulty in cleaning/upgrade/repairs, 
added to their relatively small screen size, makes me wanting to avoid them.


> Because of the
> dust I clean my desktops at least once a year, also a pain but much easier
> than a laptop or AIO.  This keeps them from wearing out as quickly and as
> some one on a small fixed income that's very important to me.

The design compromises on a laptop compared to a desktop are many.  I don't 
think I ever had a laptop lasting for more than 6 years of continuous usage 
without things breaking, no matter how careful I was with it.  By the time its 
battery needs replacement something around the corner is usually about to fail 
on me.

I recall seeing the same symptom on an HP laptop some years ago now.  I 
replaced its fan, but it continued to fail to boot in the same manner.  I 
never got to the bottom of it at the time.


> Dec 2, 2024, 09:06 by confabulate@kintzios.com:
> > On Wednesday 29 November 2023 00:16:11 GMT you wrote:
> >> On Tuesday, 28 November 2023 15:49:10 GMT Daniel Frey wrote:
> >> > On 11/28/23 03:38, Michael wrote:
> >> > > Over the last 8-9 months I noticed an old Lenovo G505s laptop is
> >> > > spending
> >> > > a
> >> > > long time in the POST process, before eventually the OEM logo shows
> >> > > up
> >> > > on
> >> > > the screen.  Last time I timed it, it took 2.5-3.0 minutes.  Normally
> >> > > it
> >> > > would only take ~20-30 seconds.  Once the logo shows up the boot
> >> > > process
> >> > > proceeds without further delay.
> >> > > 
> >> > > Initially, this delay to POST would happen randomly and rarely.  Now
> >> > > it
> >> > > happens every time.
> >> > > 
> >> > > Things I tried:
> >> > > 
> >> > > 1. Reflashing the UEFI firmware - it didn't work because it already
> >> > > has
> >> > > the
> >> > > latest firmware.
> >> > > 
> >> > > 2. Removing the main battery and holding down the power button for 15
> >> > > seconds, hoping to reset the firmware.
> >> > > 
> >> > > 3. Leaving the PSU cable connected overnight.
> >> > > 
> >> > > 4. Testing the RAM and HDD.
> >> > > 
> >> > > None of the above improved the situation, or indicated what might be
> >> > > wrong.
> >> > > 
> >> > > I'll reseat the RAM sticks and the HDD next, in case a contact is
> >> > > oxidised,
> >> > > but what else could cause this noticeable delay to POST?  A failing
> >> > > RTC
> >> > > CMOS battery?
> >> > 
> >> > We have had a few of these at work and these symptoms were cured by a
> >> > new CMOS battery. The voltage on the battery has likely dipped to
> >> > 2.9-3.0 volts; they get unreliable then (i.e. it's dead.) If you leave
> >> > it long enough you'll start getting RTC errors on POST.
> >> > 
> >> > I'd try that first, assuming you can still get the CMOS battery for
> >> > these.
> >> > 
> >> > Dan
> >> 
> >> Thanks Dan, will do.  I was planning to take it apart soon to replace the
> >> HDD with an SSD, so this would be the first thing to check.  I expect
> >> finding a replacement unit will be difficult.  Every Lenovo RTC battery
> >> seems to have a different part number.
> > 
> > Some things are worth waiting for, others no so much.  :-(
> > 
> > So, this laptop was taking longer and longer and longer to boot, until it
> > eventually stopped booting 3-4 months ago:
> > 
> > When the power button is pressed the cooling fan spins for a second or
> > two,
> > then it stops.  A few minutes later the CPU overheats and eventually it
> > goes into a thermal shutdown.  Using an external fan to push air through
> > merely delays this process, but the laptop still does not boot.  I am
> > getting a black screen and no POST for many minutes until it cuts out.
> > 
> > I tried to reset the MoBo BIOS by pressing the power button with no
> > battery or mains connected.  I also removed the newly replaced CMOS/RTC
> > battery and pressed the power button, but the same failure mode remains
> > after I reassembled everything.
> > 
> > Do I have:
> > 
> > 1. Corrupted MoBo UEFI firmware?
> > 2. A dying/dead chipset?
> > 3. Something else?
> > 
> > Is there anything else I could possibly try?


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