From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([69.77.167.62] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JDzjF-0001Jg-4f for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Sun, 13 Jan 2008 10:06:09 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B5C4AE0B2B; Sun, 13 Jan 2008 10:05:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.177]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5E79E0B36 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2008 10:05:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id w53so2132862pyg.25 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2008 02:05:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=DKF+4jhh+lgUTqvuMliIgPLCQUP0mGQKms2ab7o5rj4=; b=P4m+LGbu4z2wezyuEJv64qcpR2S+1JsYsfy3KHc3no5UsHJhE2qCZaPIsp0OK0j33hObJiE8P+Th+72C9BRZpM/exgI04erxg1QWgNrhnkliHbfM+7T6/v8ziwL6hXTMAuEZamxzG28EwAk9CjeKwIi6/6Lcz3GSvxW2jU0ZTC0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=c0XudJea/qKy1NfVFCH68RCBjTaajA3mZgcc6MLeMXyIkfXCq1gznnBWkSRkvgPMtwQNfODuzq3KX8dMrHUsF5dLnHOxAA2DMI7y4CwqPYzVGepkH/HAYEiw6IMBzFh05zj4IT+mfG2KMtFzpucv+KdHGzyx3KLjsgW20uhXQR0= Received: by 10.142.217.17 with SMTP id p17mr2181575wfg.99.1200218726928; Sun, 13 Jan 2008 02:05:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.164.12 with HTTP; Sun, 13 Jan 2008 02:05:26 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <7bef1f890801130205o169f2e38m875cbc08117bf612@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 20:05:26 +1000 From: "Alan E. Davis" To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Daniel Robbins' come back ? In-Reply-To: <200801131137.21855.alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1200129071.4788842fc5816@imp.free.fr> <200801121231.42265.alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> <478912A6.1030406@fire-eyes.org> <200801131137.21855.alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> X-Archives-Salt: 6971bb4d-3483-41c2-9a30-af16a31a0ce5 X-Archives-Hash: 0b1a9d68d648cb238401565250052fda Perhaps a user's perspective. A clueless user. Gentoo is the ass-kickinest distro I have tried. The docs are the best in the Linux communities. Where does that leave me and where does that leave Gentoo now? I am impelled to write after seeing numerous posts about the apparent demise of GWN, and now the usual divisive arguments about Daniel Robbins's recent innuendoes to the community of Gentoo. Once common thread in the former discussion is the "we don't need not stinkin' install CD" argument. I beg to differ, for whatever reason, but I won't discuss the reason(s) at the current time, except to state that the more recent (2007) installs went a LOT more smoothly than earlier ones, and my three machines have become so much of a headache to maintain that I am preparing to install again. Arguments against it aside. Unless I decide that Ubuntu is easier and better. (It IS easier. Is it better? No, but it's more painless for a clueless user, in some manners). That being said, one other thing begs to be discussed: Daniel Robbins is still interested in participating (albeit his demands---the extend, anyway, that I have read of them, tend to slightly put me off, but that's beside the point. I think it is necessary to take up this issue (surprized as I am that this would even BE an issue) in full light of the GWN and the install CD discussions. I want there to be a gentoo. I want there to be a well documented and not horribly painful way to install. I like the concept. Gentoo is still working well, but those soft spots that I mentioned are serious and troubling ones. When I first came into Gentoo, one thing I noticed was the kindness of Gentoo experts in the mailing list discussions. Debian experts often left clueless users in the lurch, with their readiness to say "RTFM" and lack of real support in many cases. Gentoo people have been kind, I have not been told to RTFM, although I was (thankfully) often told where to find more information on a subject. This off-putting "political" undercurrent of the Gentoo community has me worried. Is this the beginning of the RTFM choir? I hope not. Why would Daniel Robbins's opinions or suggestions not be of interest? Why do so many diss him so? I am looking for positive suggestions. Sorry for the waste of time, Alan Davis Teacher and GNU/Linux enabled independent scholar and scientist. On Jan 13, 2008 7:37 PM, Alan McKinnon wrote: > On Saturday 12 January 2008, fire-eyes wrote: > > Alan McKinnon wrote: > > > > Ciaran Mcreesh - I am very specifically looking at you here. > > > > Very strongly agree with Mr McCreesh (spelling?). While I respect his > > technical abilities and contributions, I believe his horrible > > attitude, clear trolling and ability to pit devs against each other, > > seemingly for fun, is far more harmful. That he wasn't gotten rid of > > early on is actually the biggest sign of problems in my eyes. That he > > has fans and followers is another. > > Ciaran seems to suffer from a horrible affliction that is common amongst > highly technical people: > > A poorly developed sense of how to deal with other people coupled with > never having realised that people are not machines, do not react like > machines and need to be handled differently. You maintain machines by > focusing on what is wrong with them and changing that. You handle > people by focusing on what they do right and reinforcing that. > > I used to do what Ciaran does, and I used to do it a *lot*. Lucky for > me, one day someone came along with a very big stick and hammered it > through my thick skull that there is a better way. > > -- > Alan McKinnon > alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com > -- > > gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list > > -- Alan Davis, Kagman High School, Saipan lngndvs@gmail.com "It's never a matter of liking or disliking ..." ---Santa Ynez Chumash Medicine Man -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list