From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2B54D1382C5 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 2020 06:47:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 03599E0A46; Mon, 14 Dec 2020 06:47:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mout.web.de (mout.web.de [217.72.192.78]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CB36FE098F for ; Mon, 14 Dec 2020 06:47:39 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=web.de; s=dbaedf251592; t=1607928448; bh=KcLY2nfHxioNfVIQrApjou2QsCO1dlHfxs/IBBGtqh0=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=CG6D+/NBlwquKTFO/C9DBHniW4wmPDJFH8MnGt1+2LZEfjhvroDh69G2mrsCJcGm0 9dsJ1BQb2XjW3unWC247T+0LhLoIeLpe/Y9RKCoXOJCZwOaBXPyZHoyKYg450CocY+ CMhjc5cT12BG21KSdGVyugTV7r27agTo9B0fI5ho= X-UI-Sender-Class: c548c8c5-30a9-4db5-a2e7-cb6cb037b8f9 Received: from [192.168.178.96] ([77.2.119.238]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb105 [213.165.67.124]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MNfY9-1kU9jw2GPT-00PBA9 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 2020 07:42:23 +0100 Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] update fails, but I don't see why To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org References: <650a1d1d-e2a6-6a55-b07b-af65a877d44e@web.de> <20201212223503.6d46ad41@digimed.co.uk> <32af647f-a0e1-77e7-ff0f-4a5495e45f6b@web.de> <20201213081731.16f5dc53@digimed.co.uk> <3c2d9eae-d102-d695-a512-09cbfea13b4a@gmail.com> From: n952162 Message-ID: <75cc2812-33b4-089d-4f82-2c5d5d9a3b09@web.de> Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2020 07:38:24 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.4.0 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:dKQXk59PWONGlrbMmtqFrbhjYw1w1586/eU2o4PsYdrDCZg9vxA 3/PITNCg2ol446zRjVmtOqDFnaHyOwkzJn+L05yQ2vuBvClW2u/6xsBgRXeO8tEO0WEJpx3 xFKe3bK/JsWkMBvVgetuqhmxESWNqU+ju8pjwmhBcPcXHOMNT/QPtm9zuCFXBKBirALUDB+ 9lchL9erFQLsQ4p/ov0zQ== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:dtOPcxfOtiE=:gwl5mLmY+iG1mRT3R9ip7a OeZZgr23/HjF+gBiRsw4TQOQjKPV1ypTALmtIlF7EjxuIEp9pzbAjp7NsCbKkdr+v3NeD485I HadW6gpSMJzgjUMg8t+bSUbfvKfM7aD+QFXQ5GQ+ttwbocERHHMO1jn8YtEW+gHlBDSTe2dzX wzhBagnh9xThOCqikYT4R1yQ+gG6DI5BxJBXxwnoYB5foLWI3mQPecHaDMuh6vQ/kfpt5BO+O OoeMxxqYuw4gvwzUW4RVilKjIoJJjFzqj2m16w79uFcfhKGD9XLkZKxmS4iXd7u/cXwfBeCsn VDCvBT+T8QG8xX2+BF1xp0g7MC6eQujbsl5htWhcjdmnCrebZjPVAHn9GGjXm3QknpiPFsAKn L9+ahxfl39Vy/Rsbea7mAZ+FCyY2qtE7/FP7/aUPCUlxCKTnoAtk74THsfWWBdnYEaPbg9czQ AndWessOJuWrib3fWcledzO20bnIo878fqubJ87u1XVG5jZ9UszKYNtgN95nB5dQyVNWVdcZk lYfyuTiF6dxEHRK4QXmLPsUbVhD3k+SOYd2gp8EZH6hyWfFMdG7kll14CEaMsxIGIC/dB5m2v 6ujsDklT0vEFjsOwc8HYlsb+FkkpOGBKmZvoFPV/2VyXzhs/QXmyoueJlAUKWOhhiGfXk2SIQ KnFXClq/8tOiSdJwCcVlqHX0e+ek6R+2ZzgSbjFQUs6uW8k+2VE19ojPkxGex5JC+PJAzxT8c WmwrWMrSR1kwkURBpOQsgeIwi3MbZ+K9Ccffn99OwLj3GJc+uEvHnfYFVrKUmuJCOpTIO4WDQ DaqEgnmSqawP02L+YBfkL2DJ4p5GeBVQRTPnrowW8AWMCqZrBy8saNhq8L2TSnBoLnUsVa0LB bKECq9A02fxtr3wG55Sw== X-Archives-Salt: e57e3674-5833-4e2a-8a26-464222f12ae5 X-Archives-Hash: bba1928a5e3cbc2f1982ab1ce3bdaa1f That's good.=C2=A0 I'll do that On 12/13/20 10:40 PM, Dale wrote: > n952162 wrote: >> On 12/13/20 10:02 PM, n952162 wrote: >>> On 12/13/20 9:06 PM, Dale wrote: >>>> Mark Knecht wrote: >>>>> On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 12:03 PM n952162 >>>> > wrote: >>>>>> On 12/13/20 9:18 AM, Neil Bothwick wrote: >>>>>>> Nearly 2 months, quite a long time in Gentoo update terms. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Okay, is the solution then to re-install? >>>>>> >>>>> Personally I wouldn't start with a reinstall. >>>>> >>>>> I'd start with my world file and remove/comment out every >>>>> 'application' not required to keep the machine running/booting. That >>>>> should be nearly everything other than things like grub, your kernel= s, >>>>> hardware drivers, terminals, etc. >>>>> >>>>> NOTE: Just because you comment something out in the world file doesn= 't >>>>> mean it won't run, it just won't get updated or be part of portage's >>>>> considerations about what to do. >>>>> >>>>> At that point emerge=C2=A0@world should only be considering, from a = build >>>>> POV, the stuff you really need. >>>>> >>>>> This python problem everyone is having I cannot help with. Solving >>>>> problems like that is why people run Gentoo. With lots of power come= s >>>>> lots of responsibility. However with all the applications >>>>> 'unconsidered' you have a chance of getting the really important stu= ff >>>>> built and booting. >>>>> >>>>> If I got that far then I'd start adding apps back in/uncommenting on= e >>>>> or two at a time and see if I could make headway. >>>>> >>>>> I've updated machines that were a year out of date but it took days >>>>> and days. If I didn't want to build code every week I decided I >>>>> couldn't run Gentoo. >>>>> >>>>> HTH, >>>>> Mark >>>> I agree.=C2=A0 I update once a week.=C2=A0 It seems a pretty good bal= ance between >>>> not having to do it to often and not having such drastic changes >>>> that it >>>> makes things hard to work through. >>>> >>>> That said, when the tree is in the process of huge changes, it can >>>> create problems even with weekly updates.=C2=A0 Right now, it is pyth= on and >>>> the speed it is moving at.=C2=A0 Some versions that have been around = for >>>> ages, 2.7, is being removed.=C2=A0 Then python 3.6 is leaving etc etc= etc. >>>> Those of us that have been around long enough have seen this with oth= er >>>> packages as well.=C2=A0 Some packages are just hard to upgrade to beg= in with >>>> and some create circular problems. The longer it goes between updates= , >>>> the larger that problem gets to be.=C2=A0 You get two different packa= ges >>>> doing that, you can find yourself running around in circles trying to >>>> get emerge to chew what it can. >>>> >>>> While I usually do updates on Sunday evening, I'm considering doing >>>> twice a week, Sunday and Wednesday.=C2=A0 At least until python settl= es down >>>> a bit. Thing is, I think the worst part may be about over.=C2=A0 I th= ink 2.7 >>>> is gone here, I think 3.6 is too.=C2=A0 That's two down.=C2=A0 It see= ms 3.7 and >>>> above will be around a while but if they start going away soon, I >>>> may do >>>> two updates a week if it starts making updates harder. >>>> >>>> Time can be a problem but sometimes it just depends on what packages >>>> have changed and how fast they have changed.=C2=A0 For some systems t= hat >>>> haven't been updated in a while, having to remove python 2.7 and 3.6 = in >>>> one go, can cause problems that are hard to get around.=C2=A0 Right n= ow just >>>> isn't a good time to let updates get to far apart. >>>> >>>> The only thing that makes some of this survivable, getting help on th= is >>>> mailing list.=C2=A0 Some people can decode the output of emerge and f= ind a >>>> way to work through it. Some are fairly easy, some not so much. >>>> Sometimes removing/commenting out things in the world file will help. >>>> Sometimes doing @system first helps. Sometimes you just have to updat= e >>>> certain packages in small chunks to get through a upgrade. Finding th= at >>>> right option sometimes requires help. >>>> >>>> Just some thoughts. >>>> >>>> Dale >>>> >>>> :-)=C2=A0 :-) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> My problem is I can't find a diagnostic methodology.=C2=A0 The one I m= ost >>> often hear is, update more often, or trail and error solutions. >>> >>> Does all that information in emerge's output point the way to the >>> problem, and I just have to learn to understand it,=C2=A0 or am I just >>> wasting my time there?=C2=A0 Are there better tools than log parsing? = I know, >>> there are lots of good tools,=C2=A0 but there needs to be methodology = for >>> using them (like understanding gentoo ;-) ) >>> >>> >> But commenting stuff out of the world file is at least a path. I'll >> start with that tomorrow. >> >> >> >> > > Another option some use, sets.=C2=A0 That way instead of updating world = all > in one go, they update sets instead.=C2=A0 Example.=C2=A0 You have sever= al GUIs > installed, KDE, Gnome and maybe even a couple more.=C2=A0 You break thos= e up > into sets for each one.=C2=A0 Most of the time, you may can just update = world > all in one go.=C2=A0 At times, it may be easier to update the lighter > desktops first then move to the next until they are all done.=C2=A0 Then > update world which should be a much smaller set of updates since most > updates would already be done. > > Quite a few here use sets.=C2=A0 It can work well depending on your setu= p. > If you do use them, there is people here than can help you work through > issues.=C2=A0 Linkys: > > https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki//etc/portage/sets > > https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Package_sets > > Last one is about sets already being used.=C2=A0 Good for examples tho. > Helps to understand how they work. > > Dale > > :-)=C2=A0 :-) >