[gentoo-user] How do I use 2.6.14 and remove udev and go back to devfs

[gentoo-user] How do I use 2.6.14 and remove udev and go back to devfs

[Daevid Vincent]

I've been running 2.6.10 for some time. Then I started reading some stuff
that I should update my Dell Inspiron 8200 notebook to UDEV. So I followed
the gentoo wiki page and used kernel 2.6.13. This caused (known) issues with
my nvidia driver and I couldn't get the USB mouse to work (yet the alps pad
AND track point both worked fine). I didn't know what else was going to not
work, so I said the hell with this as I'd already wasted enough time and
went back to my old kernel image (until the udev people get their shit
together and this is more stable).

I unmerged 'udev'

I re-emerged devfsd

Things were generally working fine (with 2.6.10)

Tonight I tried to make a new 2.6.14 kernel (using make oldconfig) and when
it booted, there was some message that I don't have DEVFS or UDEV installed
and so many things didn't work including sound, nvidia, wireless, etc.

I re-read the udev wiki page and tried to find the 'make menuconfig' options
they suggest and can't find them. I also grepped my .config for both "UDEV"
and "DEVFS" and found nothing. WTF!

How do I use the good old devfs with the 2.6.14+ kernels?! Where are the
freakin' settings? What do I need to change/fix to get it to work again.
UGH!

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Re: [gentoo-user] How do I use 2.6.14 and remove udev and go back to devfs

[Dirk Heinrichs]

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Am Mittwoch, 16. November 2005 08:56 schrieb ext Daevid Vincent:

> I've been running 2.6.10 for some time. Then I started reading some stuff
> that I should update my Dell Inspiron 8200 notebook to UDEV. So I
> followed the gentoo wiki page and used kernel 2.6.13. This caused (known)
> issues with my nvidia driver and I couldn't get the USB mouse to work
> (yet the alps pad AND track point both worked fine).

How did you set it up? Where didn't it work, X, gpm?

> I didn't know what 
> else was going to not work, so I said the hell with this as I'd already
> wasted enough time and went back to my old kernel image (until the udev
> people get their shit together and this is more stable).

Udev works fine for me since months, now.

> I unmerged 'udev'
>
> I re-emerged devfsd
>
> Things were generally working fine (with 2.6.10)
>
> Tonight I tried to make a new 2.6.14 kernel (using make oldconfig) and
> when it booted, there was some message that I don't have DEVFS or UDEV
> installed and so many things didn't work including sound, nvidia,
> wireless, etc.

> I re-read the udev wiki page and tried to find the 'make menuconfig'
> options they suggest and can't find them. I also grepped my .config for
> both "UDEV" and "DEVFS" and found nothing. WTF!

Config options for devfs were removed in 2.6.14. However, the code is still 
there (for now).

> How do I use the good old devfs with the 2.6.14+ kernels?! Where are the
> freakin' settings? What do I need to change/fix to get it to work again.

They are commented out. Just grep your kernel source tree for "CONFIG_DEVFS" 
and comment them in again.

However, sooner or later the devfs code will be removed from the kernel, 
maybe already in 2.6.15 or .16. If you tell us more details about your 
problems with udev, people here on the list will try to help you sort them 
out.

Bye...

	Dirk
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Re: [gentoo-user] How do I use 2.6.14 and remove udev and go back to devfs

[W.Kenworthy]

(I think, without checking) devfs has been removed from 2.6.14 and
everything is supposed to be udev from now on.

A suggestion made out of frustration with 2.6.14 - use 2.6.13-r3 first.
Some kernel versions have had glitches with udev, and I know -r2 and -r3
are working for me on the i82k.

The reason is that 2.6.14 has made some rather large leaps that created
problems for me (so far all 3 machines, inc. desktops Ive tried have
headaches!)

First udev, install udev according to the gentoo guide and that should
work fine.  Check the udev USE flag so and "emerge world --newuse" if
neccessary.  Strongly reccomended: use the tarball method, not pure
udev!  you have enough problems without trying to sort that out.

Once its working and reliable, make the step to 2.6.14-r2
Traps for 2.6.14 are:
dont select both the log and ulog targets together in the netfilter
modules or you wont have any logging (changes mean only a single target
can be selected at a time - of course in true unix fashion they dont
tell you that, or prevent you from doing it:(

Only wpa_supplicant version 0.4.5 seems to work

pcmcia stuff seems to have changed somewhat, and I changed to
pcmciautils which was probably not necessary looking back, but it works
nicely and pcmcia-cs is on the way out.

wireless (madwifi) is now working fine (still got to check no encryption
which I have not been able to get to work under 2.6.13) - I turned all
kernel wireless stuff off and use wpa_supplicant and madwifi

softwaresuspend2 rc9 works with 2.6.14 - r10 and r11 have bugs, the
earlier ones dont apply cleanly.

The cisco-vpnclient wont compile against 2.6.14 until you delete some
lines out of one of the files: there's patches/instructions on the
forums.  Also, with the latest security bug in one of the protocols it
uses, an update will be along soon I'd say.

Ive had no problems with the 6629 series nvidia drivers, manually
patched for suspend2, but this was on a desktop (gforce4) as the i82k
uses a radeon card.

Had to use the ~x86 x11-drm to compile the radeon drm driver against
2.6.14

2.6.14 is looking like a major pita so far.  I have another machine to
do tonight, but hopefully there wont be any new dramas.

BillK



On Tue, 2005-11-15 at 23:56 -0800, Daevid Vincent wrote:
> I've been running 2.6.10 for some time. Then I started reading some stuff
> that I should update my Dell Inspiron 8200 notebook to UDEV. So I followed
> the gentoo wiki page and used kernel 2.6.13. This caused (known) issues with
> my nvidia driver and I couldn't get the USB mouse to work (yet the alps pad
> AND track point both worked fine). I didn't know what else was going to not
> work, so I said the hell with this as I'd already wasted enough time and
> went back to my old kernel image (until the udev people get their shit
> together and this is more stable).
> 
> I unmerged 'udev'
> 
> I re-emerged devfsd
> 
> Things were generally working fine (with 2.6.10)
> 
> Tonight I tried to make a new 2.6.14 kernel (using make oldconfig) and when
> it booted, there was some message that I don't have DEVFS or UDEV installed
> and so many things didn't work including sound, nvidia, wireless, etc.
> 
> I re-read the udev wiki page and tried to find the 'make menuconfig' options
> they suggest and can't find them. I also grepped my .config for both "UDEV"
> and "DEVFS" and found nothing. WTF!
> 
> How do I use the good old devfs with the 2.6.14+ kernels?! Where are the
> freakin' settings? What do I need to change/fix to get it to work again.
> UGH!
> 
-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] How do I use 2.6.14 and remove udev and go back to devfs

[Dirk Heinrichs]

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Am Mittwoch, 16. November 2005 09:22 schrieb ext W.Kenworthy:

> (I think, without checking) devfs has been removed from 2.6.14 and
> everything is supposed to be udev from now on.

Nope, not yet. Only the config options have been commented out.

> First udev, install udev according to the gentoo guide and that should
> work fine.  Check the udev USE flag so and "emerge world --newuse" if
> neccessary.  Strongly reccomended: use the tarball method, not pure
> udev!  you have enough problems without trying to sort that out.

I would recommend to _not_ use the tarball method :-). I've always had 
problems when I forgot to set RC_DEVICE_TARBALL="no" in /etc/conf.d/rc 
after baselayout update (can't remember what kind of problems, though). It 
is, however, a good idea to create permanent /dev/null and /dev/console 
nodes with mknod beforehand.

Bye...

	Dirk
-- 
Dirk Heinrichs          | Tel:  +49 (0)162 234 3408
Configuration Manager   | Fax:  +49 (0)211 47068 111
Capgemini Deutschland   | Mail: dirk.heinrichs@capgemini.com
Hambornerstraße 55      | Web:  http://www.capgemini.com
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Re: [gentoo-user] How do I use 2.6.14 and remove udev and go back to devfs

[Dirk Heinrichs]

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Am Mittwoch, 16. November 2005 09:42 schrieb ext Dirk Heinrichs:

> Nope, not yet. Only the config options have been commented out.

Correction: The config options have been removed, not just commented out. 
The devfs code is still there.

Bye...

	Dirk
-- 
Dirk Heinrichs          | Tel:  +49 (0)162 234 3408
Configuration Manager   | Fax:  +49 (0)211 47068 111
Capgemini Deutschland   | Mail: dirk.heinrichs@capgemini.com
Hambornerstraße 55      | Web:  http://www.capgemini.com
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Re: [gentoo-user] How do I use 2.6.14 and remove udev and go back to devfs

[brullo nulla]

> Correction: The config options have been removed, not just commented out.
> The devfs code is still there.

You mean there's still devfs in 2.6.14, but it is "hidden"?
What's the sense of this?

m.

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Re: [gentoo-user] How do I use 2.6.14 and remove udev and go back to devfs

[Dirk Heinrichs]

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Am Mittwoch, 16. November 2005 10:19 schrieb ext brullo nulla:

> You mean there's still devfs in 2.6.14, but it is "hidden"?
> What's the sense of this?

It's very hard to remove devfs from the kernel. Just removing the configure 
options for it makes it easier to put it in again, in case of to much 
complains about its removal. In addition, kernel developers can now remove 
devfs code piece by piece behind the scenes.

Bye...

	Dirk
-- 
Dirk Heinrichs          | Tel:  +49 (0)162 234 3408
Configuration Manager   | Fax:  +49 (0)211 47068 111
Capgemini Deutschland   | Mail: dirk.heinrichs@capgemini.com
Hambornerstraße 55      | Web:  http://www.capgemini.com
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Re: [gentoo-user] How do I use 2.6.14 and remove udev and go back to devfs

[Richard Fish]

On 11/16/05, Dirk Heinrichs <ext-dirk.heinrichs@nokia.com> wrote:
> Am Mittwoch, 16. November 2005 10:19 schrieb ext brullo nulla:
>
> > You mean there's still devfs in 2.6.14, but it is "hidden"?
> > What's the sense of this?
>
> It's very hard to remove devfs from the kernel. Just removing the configure
> options for it makes it easier to put it in again, in case of to much
> complains about its removal. In addition, kernel developers can now remove
> devfs code piece by piece behind the scenes.

No, it's not.  Greg-KH (also a Gentoo developer, BTW) has posted
patches to completely remove the devfs code for every kernel for the
last few releases (starting with 2.6.11, I think).  It _is_ going
away, and it is going away very soon.

David, udev works, and it works well.  If you have problems migrating,
post here and we will help you.  But whining about devfs going away
will fall on deaf ears.  That horse died a very long time ago.

-Richard

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Re: [gentoo-user] How do I use 2.6.14 and remove udev and go back to devfs

[William Kenworthy]

Yes udev works, however works well is something else entirely.  Udev has
been the bane of my life a number of times - at least with devfs I had a
chance of working it out.  It often seems like we take two steps back
with every new approach, and take a lot of pain just to get back to
where we were.

But I digress.

BillK

On Wed, 2005-11-16 at 09:26 -0700, Richard Fish wrote:
> On 11/16/05, Dirk Heinrichs <ext-dirk.heinrichs@nokia.com> wrote:
> > Am Mittwoch, 16. November 2005 10:19 schrieb ext brullo nulla:

> 
> David, udev works, and it works well.  If you have problems migrating,

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Re: [gentoo-user] How do I use 2.6.14 and remove udev and go back to devfs

[Richard Fish]

On 11/16/05, William Kenworthy <billk@iinet.net.au> wrote:
> Yes udev works, however works well is something else entirely.  Udev has
> been the bane of my life a number of times - at least with devfs I had a
> chance of working it out.  It often seems like we take two steps back
> with every new approach, and take a lot of pain just to get back to
> where we were.

That's probably because you don't really see the value of udev.

Looking at my 10-local.rules, I have rules that:

1. ensure that whatever wireless card I decide to plugin becomes
"wlan", instead of eth0, ath0, or wlan0.

2. Makes all of my usb media devices (flash disks, 2.5in hard disks,
3.5in HDs, and media reader) show up at persistent nodes, instead of
sdX devices where X depends on what devices are connected and the
order that they are turned on.

Neither of the above is possible with a static configuration or devfs.

Yes, there are problems from time to time (like when all of the devfs
compatibility nodes were removed!).  But I've never had a problem
debugging what udev was doing (set udev_log in udev.conf and watch
/var/log/messages).

-Richard

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