[gentoo-user] world upgrade a mess, need some advise

[gentoo-user] world upgrade a mess, need some advise

[John Covici]

Hi.  So, trying to do a world update, I ran into two major problems --
one is perl and the other is python 3.12.  Here is what I get trying
to upgrade perl by itself:

These are the packages that would be merged, in order:

Calculating dependencies  .... ....... done!
Dependency resolution took 28.07 s (backtrack: 3/200).

[ebuild     U  ] dev-lang/perl-5.40.0:0/5.40::gentoo
[5.38.2-r6:0/5.38::gentoo] USE="gdbm -berkdb -doc -minimal"
PERL_FEATURES="(-debug) -ithreads -quadmath" 13,616 KiB

Total: 1 package (1 upgrade), Size of downloads: 13,616 KiB

!!! Multiple package instances within a single package slot have been
    pulled
    !!! into the dependency graph, resulting in a slot conflict:

dev-lang/perl:0

  (dev-lang/perl-5.40.0:0/5.40::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge)
  USE="gdbm -berkdb -doc -minimal" ABI_X86="(64)"
  PERL_FEATURES="(-debug) -ithreads -quadmath" pulled in by
      =dev-lang/perl-5.40* required by
  (virtual/perl-CPAN-2.360.0-r1-1:0/0::gentoo, installed) USE=""
  ABI_X86="(64)"
      ^              ^^^^^
	     =dev-lang/perl-5.40.0 (Argument)
		    (and 35 more with the same problems)

  (dev-lang/perl-5.38.2-r6-1:0/5.38::gentoo, installed) USE="gdbm
  -berkdb -doc -minimal" ABI_X86="(64)" PERL_FEATURES="(-debug)
  -ithreads -quadmath" pulled in by
      dev-lang/perl:0/5.38= required by
  (virtual/perl-CPAN-Meta-YAML-0.18.0-r10-1:0/0::gentoo, installed)
  USE="" ABI_X86="(64)"
                   ^^^^^^^^
			        dev-lang/perl:0/5.38=[-build(-)] required by
  (dev-vcs/git-2.45.1-1:0/0::gentoo, installed) USE="blksha1 curl gpg
  iconv keyring nls pcre perl safe-directory webdav -cgi -cvs -doc
  -highlight -mediawiki -perforce (-selinux) -subversion -t\est -tk
  -xinetd" ABI_X86="(64)" PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET="python3_11 -python3_10
  -python3_12"
                   ^^^^^^^^
  \
      =dev-lang/perl-5.38* required by
  (virtual/perl-Socket-2.36.0-1:0/0::gentoo, installed) USE=""
  ABI_X86="(64)"
      ^              ^^^^^
	     (and 308 more with the same problems)

NOTE: Use the '--verbose-conflicts' option to display parents omitted
above

!!! The slot conflict(s) shown above involve package(s) which may need
    to
    !!! be rebuilt in order to solve the conflict(s). However, the
    following
    !!! package(s) cannot be rebuilt for the reason(s) shown:

  (dev-vcs/git-2.45.1-1:0/0::gentoo, installed): ebuild is masked or
  unavailable


It may be possible to solve this problem by using package.mask to
prevent one of those packages from being selected. However, it is also
possible that conflicting dependencies exist such that they are
impossible to satisfy simultaneously.  If such a conflict exists in
the dependencies of two different packages, then those packages can
not be installed simultaneously.

For more information, see MASKED PACKAGES section in the emerge man
page or refer to the Gentoo Handbook.


!!! The following installed packages are masked:
- xfce-base/xfconf-4.19.2::gentoo (masked by: package.mask)
/var/db/repos/gentoo/profiles/package.mask:
# Micha\u0142 Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> (2024-06-08)
# Prereleases of Xfce 4.20.  Masking upon popular request, due to
# a large number of regressions in every new release.

- dev-php/PEAR-Mail-1.5.0::gentoo (masked by: package.mask)
/var/db/repos/gentoo/profiles/package.mask:
# Viorel Munteanu <ceamac@gentoo.org> (2024-06-11)
# dev-php/pear, dev-php/PEAR-* and their reverse dependencies: mask
for removal
# in 30 days.
## they have around 40 bugs.
# Removal: 2024-07-11.  Bug #933998.

- xfce-base/libxfce4util-4.19.3::gentoo (masked by: package.mask)
- dev-php/PEAR-DB-1.11.0::gentoo (masked by: package.mask)
- dev-build/xfce4-dev-tools-4.19.1::gentoo (masked by: package.mask)
- dev-php/PEAR-Date-1.5.0_alpha4-r1::gentoo (masked by: package.mask)
- xfce-base/exo-4.19.0::gentoo (masked by: package.mask)
- dev-php/PEAR-XML_Serializer-0.21.0-r1::gentoo (masked by:
- package.mask)
- xfce-base/libxfce4ui-4.19.5::gentoo (masked by: package.mask)
- dev-php/PEAR-XML_Parser-1.3.8-r1::gentoo (masked by: package.mask)
For more information, see the MASKED PACKAGES section in the emerge
man page or refer to the Gentoo Handbook.
I tried with backtrack=1000, with no different results.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici wb2una
         covici@ccs.covici.com

Re: [gentoo-user] world upgrade a mess, need some advise

[Michael]

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On Monday, 1 July 2024 11:04:37 BST John Covici wrote:
> Hi.  So, trying to do a world update, I ran into two major problems --
> one is perl and the other is python 3.12.  Here is what I get trying
> to upgrade perl by itself:
> 
> These are the packages that would be merged, in order:
> 
> Calculating dependencies  .... ....... done!
> Dependency resolution took 28.07 s (backtrack: 3/200).
> 
> [ebuild     U  ] dev-lang/perl-5.40.0:0/5.40::gentoo
> [5.38.2-r6:0/5.38::gentoo] USE="gdbm -berkdb -doc -minimal"
> PERL_FEATURES="(-debug) -ithreads -quadmath" 13,616 KiB
> 
> Total: 1 package (1 upgrade), Size of downloads: 13,616 KiB
> 
> !!! Multiple package instances within a single package slot have been
>     pulled
>     !!! into the dependency graph, resulting in a slot conflict:
> 
> dev-lang/perl:0
> 
>   (dev-lang/perl-5.40.0:0/5.40::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge)
>   USE="gdbm -berkdb -doc -minimal" ABI_X86="(64)"
>   PERL_FEATURES="(-debug) -ithreads -quadmath" pulled in by
>       =dev-lang/perl-5.40* required by
>   (virtual/perl-CPAN-2.360.0-r1-1:0/0::gentoo, installed) USE=""
>   ABI_X86="(64)"
>       ^              ^^^^^
> 	     =dev-lang/perl-5.40.0 (Argument)
> 		    (and 35 more with the same problems)
> 
>   (dev-lang/perl-5.38.2-r6-1:0/5.38::gentoo, installed) USE="gdbm
>   -berkdb -doc -minimal" ABI_X86="(64)" PERL_FEATURES="(-debug)
>   -ithreads -quadmath" pulled in by
>       dev-lang/perl:0/5.38= required by
>   (virtual/perl-CPAN-Meta-YAML-0.18.0-r10-1:0/0::gentoo, installed)
>   USE="" ABI_X86="(64)"
>                    ^^^^^^^^
> 			        dev-lang/perl:0/5.38=[-build(-)] 
required by
>   (dev-vcs/git-2.45.1-1:0/0::gentoo, installed) USE="blksha1 curl gpg
>   iconv keyring nls pcre perl safe-directory webdav -cgi -cvs -doc
>   -highlight -mediawiki -perforce (-selinux) -subversion -t\est -tk
>   -xinetd" ABI_X86="(64)" PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET="python3_11 -python3_10
>   -python3_12"
>                    ^^^^^^^^
>   \
>       =dev-lang/perl-5.38* required by
>   (virtual/perl-Socket-2.36.0-1:0/0::gentoo, installed) USE=""
>   ABI_X86="(64)"
>       ^              ^^^^^
> 	     (and 308 more with the same problems)
> 
> NOTE: Use the '--verbose-conflicts' option to display parents omitted
> above
> 
> !!! The slot conflict(s) shown above involve package(s) which may need
>     to
>     !!! be rebuilt in order to solve the conflict(s). However, the
>     following
>     !!! package(s) cannot be rebuilt for the reason(s) shown:
> 
>   (dev-vcs/git-2.45.1-1:0/0::gentoo, installed): ebuild is masked or
>   unavailable
> 
> 
> It may be possible to solve this problem by using package.mask to
> prevent one of those packages from being selected. However, it is also
> possible that conflicting dependencies exist such that they are
> impossible to satisfy simultaneously.  If such a conflict exists in
> the dependencies of two different packages, then those packages can
> not be installed simultaneously.
> 
> For more information, see MASKED PACKAGES section in the emerge man
> page or refer to the Gentoo Handbook.
> 
> 
> !!! The following installed packages are masked:
> - xfce-base/xfconf-4.19.2::gentoo (masked by: package.mask)
> /var/db/repos/gentoo/profiles/package.mask:
> # Micha\u0142 Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> (2024-06-08)
> # Prereleases of Xfce 4.20.  Masking upon popular request, due to
> # a large number of regressions in every new release.
> 
> - dev-php/PEAR-Mail-1.5.0::gentoo (masked by: package.mask)
> /var/db/repos/gentoo/profiles/package.mask:
> # Viorel Munteanu <ceamac@gentoo.org> (2024-06-11)
> # dev-php/pear, dev-php/PEAR-* and their reverse dependencies: mask
> for removal
> # in 30 days.
> ## they have around 40 bugs.
> # Removal: 2024-07-11.  Bug #933998.
> 
> - xfce-base/libxfce4util-4.19.3::gentoo (masked by: package.mask)
> - dev-php/PEAR-DB-1.11.0::gentoo (masked by: package.mask)
> - dev-build/xfce4-dev-tools-4.19.1::gentoo (masked by: package.mask)
> - dev-php/PEAR-Date-1.5.0_alpha4-r1::gentoo (masked by: package.mask)
> - xfce-base/exo-4.19.0::gentoo (masked by: package.mask)
> - dev-php/PEAR-XML_Serializer-0.21.0-r1::gentoo (masked by:
> - package.mask)
> - xfce-base/libxfce4ui-4.19.5::gentoo (masked by: package.mask)
> - dev-php/PEAR-XML_Parser-1.3.8-r1::gentoo (masked by: package.mask)
> For more information, see the MASKED PACKAGES section in the emerge
> man page or refer to the Gentoo Handbook.
> I tried with backtrack=1000, with no different results.
> 
> Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Whenever I have a problem involving perl I first run:

/usr/bin/perl-cleaner --reallyall

I don't know if it will fix your problem, but it won't hurt trying this first.

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Re: [gentoo-user] world upgrade a mess, need some advise

[Wols Lists]

On 01/07/2024 11:34, Michael wrote:
>> Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
> Whenever I have a problem involving perl I first run:
> 
> /usr/bin/perl-cleaner --reallyall
> 
> I don't know if it will fix your problem, but it won't hurt trying this first.

Yup. I discovered this. A lot of perl stuff doesn't seem to get updated 
in the normal course of updates, and all of a sudden perl itself gets 
wedged.

Bear in mind large chunks of Perl are downloaded from CPAN, and the 
eco-system is designed to upgrade them from inside Perl itself, you can 
see how things go wrong ...

Cheers,
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] world upgrade a mess, need some advise

[Dale]

Wols Lists wrote:
> On 01/07/2024 11:34, Michael wrote:
>>> Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
>> Whenever I have a problem involving perl I first run:
>>
>> /usr/bin/perl-cleaner --reallyall
>>
>> I don't know if it will fix your problem, but it won't hurt trying
>> this first.
>
> Yup. I discovered this. A lot of perl stuff doesn't seem to get
> updated in the normal course of updates, and all of a sudden perl
> itself gets wedged.
>
> Bear in mind large chunks of Perl are downloaded from CPAN, and the
> eco-system is designed to upgrade them from inside Perl itself, you
> can see how things go wrong ...
>
> Cheers,
> Wol
>
>


I seem to recall having to run that during that upgrade as well.  It
reinstalled a lot of packages but it worked.  It's worth trying for sure.

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] world upgrade a mess, need some advise

[John Covici]

On Mon, 01 Jul 2024 09:53:56 -0400,
Dale wrote:
> 
> Wols Lists wrote:
> > On 01/07/2024 11:34, Michael wrote:
> >>> Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
> >> Whenever I have a problem involving perl I first run:
> >>
> >> /usr/bin/perl-cleaner --reallyall
> >>
> >> I don't know if it will fix your problem, but it won't hurt trying
> >> this first.
> >
> > Yup. I discovered this. A lot of perl stuff doesn't seem to get
> > updated in the normal course of updates, and all of a sudden perl
> > itself gets wedged.
> >
> > Bear in mind large chunks of Perl are downloaded from CPAN, and the
> > eco-system is designed to upgrade them from inside Perl itself, you
> > can see how things go wrong ...
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Wol
> >
> >
> 
> 
> I seem to recall having to run that during that upgrade as well.  It
> reinstalled a lot of packages but it worked.  It's worth trying for sure.
> 

But don't you do that after the upgrade -- I can't even start the
upgrade, so how would perl-cleaner help?

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici wb2una
         covici@ccs.covici.com

Re: [gentoo-user] world upgrade a mess, need some advise

[Dale]

John Covici wrote:
> On Mon, 01 Jul 2024 09:53:56 -0400,
> Dale wrote:
>> Wols Lists wrote:
>>> On 01/07/2024 11:34, Michael wrote:
>>>>> Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
>>>> Whenever I have a problem involving perl I first run:
>>>>
>>>> /usr/bin/perl-cleaner --reallyall
>>>>
>>>> I don't know if it will fix your problem, but it won't hurt trying
>>>> this first.
>>> Yup. I discovered this. A lot of perl stuff doesn't seem to get
>>> updated in the normal course of updates, and all of a sudden perl
>>> itself gets wedged.
>>>
>>> Bear in mind large chunks of Perl are downloaded from CPAN, and the
>>> eco-system is designed to upgrade them from inside Perl itself, you
>>> can see how things go wrong ...
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Wol
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I seem to recall having to run that during that upgrade as well.  It
>> reinstalled a lot of packages but it worked.  It's worth trying for sure.
>>
> But don't you do that after the upgrade -- I can't even start the
> upgrade, so how would perl-cleaner help?
>


I can't recall for sure but I think my problem was different but perl
related.  I had some circular problems with some packages and was
getting some weird error when it failed.  Anyway, I'm almost certain it
was Micheal that recommended running perl-cleaner.  It fixed the perl
problem I had.  I've seen a couple others over the years use it.  I
think perl tends to manage itself fairly well but sometimes, it just
needs a good swift kick. 

I think there is a pretend option.  You could try that if there is one
and just see what it says it will do and if you think it is OK.  Or,
post what it says here and see what others think about what it wants to
do if you not sure. 

I'm not a perl expert but that command has fixed some odd issues before. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

P. S.  No monitor today.  They deliver before it gets this late.  It
looks like it missed the truck from the Memphis hub to my local
distribution center.  It shows it is still there, not here.  Maybe
tomorrow.  < me prays >

Re: [gentoo-user] world upgrade a mess, need some advise

[Wol]

On 01/07/2024 20:27, John Covici wrote:
>> I seem to recall having to run that during that upgrade as well.  It
>> reinstalled a lot of packages but it worked.  It's worth trying for sure.
>>
> But don't you do that after the upgrade -- I can't even start the
> upgrade, so how would perl-cleaner help?

Trust me it does!

You have a bunch of old perl scripts, one (or more) of which are 
blocking the upgrade. perl-cleaner will upgrade them to the latest 
version compatible with your current perl, which then frees up the perl 
upgrade. Make sure you run perl-cleaner again afterwards, to ensure you 
have the absolute latest version of all these extra bits. In fact, you 
should really run perl-cleaner after every "emerge --update". Most 
people most of the time either forget or don't realise ...

Don't forget, if I've got it right, perl and CPAN predate linux, so if 
there's an argument about who needs to change, perl simply says "I was 
here first, you have to do it *my* way".

Cheers,
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] world upgrade a mess, need some advise

[John Covici]

On Mon, 01 Jul 2024 19:16:11 -0400,
Wol wrote:
> 
> On 01/07/2024 20:27, John Covici wrote:
> >> I seem to recall having to run that during that upgrade as well.  It
> >> reinstalled a lot of packages but it worked.  It's worth trying for sure.
> >> 
> > But don't you do that after the upgrade -- I can't even start the
> > upgrade, so how would perl-cleaner help?
> 
> Trust me it does!
> 
> You have a bunch of old perl scripts, one (or more) of which are
> blocking the upgrade. perl-cleaner will upgrade them to the
> latest version compatible with your current perl, which then
> frees up the perl upgrade. Make sure you run perl-cleaner again
> afterwards, to ensure you have the absolute latest version of all
> these extra bits. In fact, you should really run perl-cleaner
> after every "emerge --update". Most people most of the time
> either forget or don't realise ...
> 
> Don't forget, if I've got it right, perl and CPAN predate linux,
> so if there's an argument about who needs to change, perl simply
> says "I was here first, you have to do it *my* way".
> 
> Cheers,
> Wol
> 

I ran perl-cleaner and it is going right now -- installing perl itself
and lots of others -- thanks a lot people.

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici wb2una
         covici@ccs.covici.com

Re: [gentoo-user] world upgrade a mess, need some advise

[Dale]

John Covici wrote:
> On Mon, 01 Jul 2024 19:16:11 -0400,
> Wol wrote:
>> On 01/07/2024 20:27, John Covici wrote:
>>>> I seem to recall having to run that during that upgrade as well.  It
>>>> reinstalled a lot of packages but it worked.  It's worth trying for sure.
>>>>
>>> But don't you do that after the upgrade -- I can't even start the
>>> upgrade, so how would perl-cleaner help?
>> Trust me it does!
>>
>> You have a bunch of old perl scripts, one (or more) of which are
>> blocking the upgrade. perl-cleaner will upgrade them to the
>> latest version compatible with your current perl, which then
>> frees up the perl upgrade. Make sure you run perl-cleaner again
>> afterwards, to ensure you have the absolute latest version of all
>> these extra bits. In fact, you should really run perl-cleaner
>> after every "emerge --update". Most people most of the time
>> either forget or don't realise ...
>>
>> Don't forget, if I've got it right, perl and CPAN predate linux,
>> so if there's an argument about who needs to change, perl simply
>> says "I was here first, you have to do it *my* way".
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Wol
>>
> I ran perl-cleaner and it is going right now -- installing perl itself
> and lots of others -- thanks a lot people.
>


Just some additional info.  I did a update on my main rig the other
day.  According to emerge, everything is just fine.  I ran perl-cleaner
with pretend, it is wanting to emerge some 200 packages.  Looks like Wol
is right.  We need to run this after each OS update.  Maybe this should
be documented in a wiki somewhere???

Dale

:-)  :-) 

P. S. Monitor left Memphis hub.  Should arrive today.  I hope. 

Re: [gentoo-user] world upgrade a mess, need some advise

[Arve Barsnes]

On Tue, 2 Jul 2024 at 10:57, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> Just some additional info.  I did a update on my main rig the other
> day.  According to emerge, everything is just fine.  I ran perl-cleaner
> with pretend, it is wanting to emerge some 200 packages.  Looks like Wol
> is right.  We need to run this after each OS update.  Maybe this should
> be documented in a wiki somewhere???

Sometimes you need a hammer, but most of the time you don't. Have not
used perl-cleaner for a while, so I tried it here, and it found no
packages needing to be rebuilt.

IMO, only bring out the hammer if you're having a problem.

Regards,
Arve

Re: [gentoo-user] world upgrade a mess, need some advise

[Dale]

Arve Barsnes wrote:
> On Tue, 2 Jul 2024 at 10:57, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Just some additional info.  I did a update on my main rig the other
>> day.  According to emerge, everything is just fine.  I ran perl-cleaner
>> with pretend, it is wanting to emerge some 200 packages.  Looks like Wol
>> is right.  We need to run this after each OS update.  Maybe this should
>> be documented in a wiki somewhere???
> Sometimes you need a hammer, but most of the time you don't. Have not
> used perl-cleaner for a while, so I tried it here, and it found no
> packages needing to be rebuilt.
>
> IMO, only bring out the hammer if you're having a problem.
>
> Regards,
> Arve
>
>


Like on my last problem, I didn't realize it was a perl problem.  That
problem was likely lurking for a while just waiting on the right thing
to happen so it could pop up.  For me, I try to keep a clean system.  I
like clean upgrades, all packages to be linked to each other that should
be and for them to be in sync when needed.  If running perl-cleaner will
prevent problems, I don't mind pulling out that hammer when all I need
is a small hammer.  It's better than waiting for things to start failing
and then not know what hammer you need or even worse, what to hit. 

Way back when I ran into weird problems, I would do a emerge -e world. 
Oddly enough, that tended to fix problems that emerge didn't pick up
on.  Likely some package that was linked wrong during the upgrade of
another package.  Today, we have tools that help prevent that.  I
haven't done a emerge -e for that reason in a while.  Last I can
remember was when we were told to do that in a news item. 

Some problems are best fixed while small.  When they get big, they get
harder to fix.  That's my thinking.  To each his/her own tho.  ;-) 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] world upgrade a mess, need some advise

[Wols Lists]

On 02/07/2024 10:17, Arve Barsnes wrote:
> IMO, only bring out the hammer if you're having a problem.

And when you run emerge --update, does that sometimes find nothing to 
upgrade? No reason why it *should* find something.

There's a couple of commands like that that sometimes find nothing to do 
- emerge --depclean is another.

But if you set off all these "do something if there's something needing 
doing" jobs, you'll always have a clean, up-to-date system.

And yes it would be nice if there was a page somewhere in the handbook 
or similar that said "this is how to keep your system up-to-date, just 
run these commands every week or so".

Cheers,
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] world upgrade a mess, need some advise

[Arve Barsnes]

On Tue, 2 Jul 2024 at 18:49, Wols Lists <antlists@youngman.org.uk> wrote:
>
> On 02/07/2024 10:17, Arve Barsnes wrote:
> > IMO, only bring out the hammer if you're having a problem.
>
> And when you run emerge --update, does that sometimes find nothing to
> upgrade? No reason why it *should* find something.
>
> There's a couple of commands like that that sometimes find nothing to do
> - emerge --depclean is another.
>
> But if you set off all these "do something if there's something needing
> doing" jobs, you'll always have a clean, up-to-date system.
>
> And yes it would be nice if there was a page somewhere in the handbook
> or similar that said "this is how to keep your system up-to-date, just
> run these commands every week or so".

Sure, sometimes there are no updates, even on my unstable system it happens.

And a world update tells you every time that you should run --depclean
to make sure your system is consistent.

And upgrading certain packages tells you to run other commands after
updating to make sure your system is consistent. Including perl with
perl-cleaner.

If you do everything portage tells you to do, you'll have perl-cleaner
mostly be a pointless waste of time, and if you never run it except
when asked to, you might be forced to now and then to fix a problem.
Your chosen solution to this 'dilemma' probably comes down to how
confident you are when coming up to portage conflicts, no shame either
way :)

Cheers,
Arve

Re: [gentoo-user] world upgrade a mess, need some advise

[Dale]

Arve Barsnes wrote:
> On Tue, 2 Jul 2024 at 18:49, Wols Lists <antlists@youngman.org.uk> wrote:
>> On 02/07/2024 10:17, Arve Barsnes wrote:
>>> IMO, only bring out the hammer if you're having a problem.
>> And when you run emerge --update, does that sometimes find nothing to
>> upgrade? No reason why it *should* find something.
>>
>> There's a couple of commands like that that sometimes find nothing to do
>> - emerge --depclean is another.
>>
>> But if you set off all these "do something if there's something needing
>> doing" jobs, you'll always have a clean, up-to-date system.
>>
>> And yes it would be nice if there was a page somewhere in the handbook
>> or similar that said "this is how to keep your system up-to-date, just
>> run these commands every week or so".
> Sure, sometimes there are no updates, even on my unstable system it happens.
>
> And a world update tells you every time that you should run --depclean
> to make sure your system is consistent.
>
> And upgrading certain packages tells you to run other commands after
> updating to make sure your system is consistent. Including perl with
> perl-cleaner.
>
> If you do everything portage tells you to do, you'll have perl-cleaner
> mostly be a pointless waste of time, and if you never run it except
> when asked to, you might be forced to now and then to fix a problem.
> Your chosen solution to this 'dilemma' probably comes down to how
> confident you are when coming up to portage conflicts, no shame either
> way :)
>
> Cheers,
> Arve
>
>


What I wish, emerge would spit the information out after it completes
instead of putting fairly important info in some log files somewhere for
a person to go dig and find.  It already tells us we should run
--depclean.  Why can't it tell us when we need to run some python tool,
perl or anything else as well that has been triggered.  I've never seen
emerge tell me to run anything but --depclean or preserved rebuild and
to be honest, if a package isn't used, it likely doesn't hurt anything
that it is still installed.  It's just cruft left behind.  Having a
broken python, perl or some other important package should give us a
notice at the end.  That to me would be more important than running
-depclean.  Running preserved rebuild is important tho.

One thing about it, if it doesn't need to fix anything, I guess it does
nothing.  Might upset a few electrons while checking is all.  ;-)

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] world upgrade a mess, need some advise

[Eli Schwartz]

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On 7/2/24 7:33 PM, Dale wrote:
> What I wish, emerge would spit the information out after it completes
> instead of putting fairly important info in some log files somewhere for
> a person to go dig and find.  It already tells us we should run
> --depclean.  Why can't it tell us when we need to run some python tool,
> perl or anything else as well that has been triggered.  I've never seen
> emerge tell me to run anything but --depclean or preserved rebuild and
> to be honest, if a package isn't used, it likely doesn't hurt anything
> that it is still installed.  It's just cruft left behind.  Having a
> broken python, perl or some other important package should give us a
> notice at the end.  That to me would be more important than running
> -depclean.  Running preserved rebuild is important tho.
> 
> One thing about it, if it doesn't need to fix anything, I guess it does
> nothing.  Might upset a few electrons while checking is all.  ;-)


... but it already does exactly this?

When a package emits a warning in the middle of 50 other packages being
compiled and installed... portage collects warnings and repeats them at
the end for you.

It doesn't matter because the package manager already rebuilds pretty
much all perl modules. Running perl-cleaner is advised "in case portage
missed something" which probably means "it wasn't part of @world".


-- 
Eli Schwartz

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Re: [gentoo-user] world upgrade a mess, need some advise

[Dale]

Eli Schwartz wrote:
> On 7/2/24 7:33 PM, Dale wrote:
>> What I wish, emerge would spit the information out after it completes
>> instead of putting fairly important info in some log files somewhere for
>> a person to go dig and find.  It already tells us we should run
>> --depclean.  Why can't it tell us when we need to run some python tool,
>> perl or anything else as well that has been triggered.  I've never seen
>> emerge tell me to run anything but --depclean or preserved rebuild and
>> to be honest, if a package isn't used, it likely doesn't hurt anything
>> that it is still installed.  It's just cruft left behind.  Having a
>> broken python, perl or some other important package should give us a
>> notice at the end.  That to me would be more important than running
>> -depclean.  Running preserved rebuild is important tho.
>>
>> One thing about it, if it doesn't need to fix anything, I guess it does
>> nothing.  Might upset a few electrons while checking is all.  ;-)
>
> ... but it already does exactly this?
>
> When a package emits a warning in the middle of 50 other packages being
> compiled and installed... portage collects warnings and repeats them at
> the end for you.
>
> It doesn't matter because the package manager already rebuilds pretty
> much all perl modules. Running perl-cleaner is advised "in case portage
> missed something" which probably means "it wasn't part of @world".
>
>


All I've ever seen is --depclean and preserved rebuild.  I don't recall
ever seeing anything else.  If a package fails, then it tacks the log
file on the end, sometimes of multiple packages.  To be honest tho, if
it fails, most of the time that isn't useful either.  Usually the actual
error is way up somewhere.  I've never seen anything about perl, python
or that sort of thing before. 

It could be that my emerge options are good enough that it doesn't
trigger any of those.  When I had to run perl cleaner a while back tho,
I wish emerge had gave me a hint that it needed to be run if it couldn't
fix it itself.  Then again, it may not have known about it either. 

I plan to run it and if it does nothing, at least then I know my system
is set up correctly. It's better than not doing it and having weird
problems that are hard to figure out the cause of. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] world upgrade a mess, need some advise

[Michael]

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On Wednesday, 3 July 2024 01:34:12 BST Dale wrote:
> Eli Schwartz wrote:
> > On 7/2/24 7:33 PM, Dale wrote:
> >> What I wish, emerge would spit the information out after it completes
> >> instead of putting fairly important info in some log files somewhere for
> >> a person to go dig and find.  It already tells us we should run
> >> --depclean.  Why can't it tell us when we need to run some python tool,
> >> perl or anything else as well that has been triggered.  I've never seen
> >> emerge tell me to run anything but --depclean or preserved rebuild and
> >> to be honest, if a package isn't used, it likely doesn't hurt anything
> >> that it is still installed.  It's just cruft left behind.  Having a
> >> broken python, perl or some other important package should give us a
> >> notice at the end.  That to me would be more important than running
> >> -depclean.  Running preserved rebuild is important tho.
> >> 
> >> One thing about it, if it doesn't need to fix anything, I guess it does
> >> nothing.  Might upset a few electrons while checking is all.  ;-)
> > 
> > ... but it already does exactly this?
> > 
> > When a package emits a warning in the middle of 50 other packages being
> > compiled and installed... portage collects warnings and repeats them at
> > the end for you.
> > 
> > It doesn't matter because the package manager already rebuilds pretty
> > much all perl modules. Running perl-cleaner is advised "in case portage
> > missed something" which probably means "it wasn't part of @world".
> 
> All I've ever seen is --depclean and preserved rebuild.  I don't recall
> ever seeing anything else.  If a package fails, then it tacks the log
> file on the end, sometimes of multiple packages.  To be honest tho, if
> it fails, most of the time that isn't useful either.  Usually the actual
> error is way up somewhere.  I've never seen anything about perl, python
> or that sort of thing before. 
> 
> It could be that my emerge options are good enough that it doesn't
> trigger any of those.  When I had to run perl cleaner a while back tho,
> I wish emerge had gave me a hint that it needed to be run if it couldn't
> fix it itself.  Then again, it may not have known about it either. 
> 
> I plan to run it and if it does nothing, at least then I know my system
> is set up correctly. It's better than not doing it and having weird
> problems that are hard to figure out the cause of. 
> 
> Dale
> 
> :-)  :-) 

When perl itself is updated emerge let's you know to run perl-cleaner with a 
message at the end.

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Re: [gentoo-user] world upgrade a mess, need some advise

[Dale]

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Michael wrote:
> On Wednesday, 3 July 2024 01:34:12 BST Dale wrote:
>>
>> All I've ever seen is --depclean and preserved rebuild.  I don't recall
>> ever seeing anything else.  If a package fails, then it tacks the log
>> file on the end, sometimes of multiple packages.  To be honest tho, if
>> it fails, most of the time that isn't useful either.  Usually the actual
>> error is way up somewhere.  I've never seen anything about perl, python
>> or that sort of thing before. 
>>
>> It could be that my emerge options are good enough that it doesn't
>> trigger any of those.  When I had to run perl cleaner a while back tho,
>> I wish emerge had gave me a hint that it needed to be run if it couldn't
>> fix it itself.  Then again, it may not have known about it either. 
>>
>> I plan to run it and if it does nothing, at least then I know my system
>> is set up correctly. It's better than not doing it and having weird
>> problems that are hard to figure out the cause of. 
>>
>> Dale
>>
>> :-)  :-) 
> When perl itself is updated emerge let's you know to run perl-cleaner with a 
> message at the end.


Well, it missed it that time I had issues then.  o_O 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

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