From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FFD615ACFB for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 01:15:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1369FE08C8; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 01:15:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-yw1-x1129.google.com (mail-yw1-x1129.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1129]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ED119E07D0 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 01:15:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-yw1-x1129.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-54ee0b73e08so484123137b3.0 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2023 18:15:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1681866919; x=1684458919; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:mime-version:user-agent:date :message-id:autocrypt:openpgp:from:references:to:subject:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=wRcdLLgmJzKQXuEHfj1VCQg5v4wNJdqciZlV8OtAI1A=; b=Rl63fUaq2iyoRcSBA6WayFXri1Vbg7smUDVTw6hUFvYuVbjFrkM6nXHStP6hxd6Z7X gp/YDXPcFIA8uJTBukKAE1H2NyQwDhs7VhDyTcQrNFEbCeJRaIOsQsZ/r5Ar48f41GUT qSr8O8o2bNiW19Q+g60OZAq/wdb508xKCVuJGxHivYl+kCWQUsCUNjsFLTnQHDU0nZEc Ud1kOMIlNJOkCEDcT05tGC8cKP1t0M4CQXfXf5N0eSVXKpDe3Pkh/kQRQu3UKXh7NVl2 kgbkXKNJq5GS0EU2vB0WzIn3BhSC5wmLr+/JLaKyU+U8X0DoP8u5Ml1KbywirXKDzhol 2Tjw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1681866919; x=1684458919; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:mime-version:user-agent:date :message-id:autocrypt:openpgp:from:references:to:subject :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=wRcdLLgmJzKQXuEHfj1VCQg5v4wNJdqciZlV8OtAI1A=; b=haf/dfPzHltJnBM9Ik+usRZrZeh1nHB76g+SMUXu28nW766PJ9Y4/ywQW51TFFVHU3 xnWDGM+7vJ4gA420goP6f9FOj3v5/FT+4VA6gUdtMIctjGKRukDPJsTALN+GQjUz6IOB MzfdHJVJmkHAkv9L19hrNZciJjYRrXv7HBx5cFjd8CrcL4kr6Bh22bdXyS0OmepU/nBb ZEh2+yrSITqZTj4DfLTQSRg61ffsj46fQcgai37BSaHfiDYZhvjUUXGaV/w9G1bazSYM SFQXcA2qOtPkPz9CLdAf+5JTR8zwtVomxQ2nMp4I84GdqXU2I6e08a/DqJkWbeWPxq5x US7w== X-Gm-Message-State: AAQBX9cipeftLwbrzgqMGubuEB8OUuH0S9BWvMTUr0u7wfPoPSJdDq4A giUpucu7hsMGNOK4T7lje2Y= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AKy350ZNhgz2XRv8/2wdnCI/x6erDNMJqGhE5wtttagj0rOus940zNiUZACcmGLXr9l8ES56v9rKAw== X-Received: by 2002:a0d:fb01:0:b0:552:96b0:c4c0 with SMTP id l1-20020a0dfb01000000b0055296b0c4c0mr1471048ywf.19.1681866919079; Tue, 18 Apr 2023 18:15:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.8.8.5] ([107.179.20.172]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id cj2-20020a05690c0b0200b00545f7c7cc8csm4162391ywb.93.2023.04.18.18.15.17 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 18 Apr 2023 18:15:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Finally got a SSD drive to put my OS on To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org References: <3a8a143d-38f0-b7ea-4aa1-10c0b3a2a1e0@gmail.com> <50d5c2a3-76cc-39bc-290a-c6d3d9e0d7c4@gmail.com> <660b8812-817b-8c2b-ccd0-63b002be9888@gmail.com> <31e6d9f7-3e2b-59aa-f57f-2f18473cd33f@youngman.org.uk> From: Dale Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=rdalek1967@gmail.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBGFSciYBEADcEGMyJBSuavKO/XKUVvgkxck7Nl8Iuu8N2lcnRji/rSKg5c1Acix1ll9i oW8JBCHwvn0+Xy60BvEsqcup3YSHw5STl/bR1ePEehtnYrg8FdjdS91+B805RfnKMm69rFVI wLSBHQrSG1yxHd8CloWoEdhmVtP24buajbh114bgXd9ahtpZrCVMrWdWYUg2mEXguGV5uNAh Rf8SWxDNc79w24JxsV34a8niMUYMjzWr0rafIbzk732X38vGjVMLo/2mMpkbp9mPp++LHoY+ 0Pet8zxxdXPJSCd475kza1AD+hhSyBZXB9yknYWgyY3cZe1rGmooJSi2KX4QxO7npwLThcO1 be6KKRkd35+Fi/a1BzVOHsZMiK/gcwxEFoMd27gir4ehaeHJfFXl+65w4hj0EsOZSxrJrm2C R50g5By2czSKP1bADEygFNpIJj51AR+wM88NImG2RPtlT2maYBzazvF05g65cdHXGp1C7W5P wwwKU2DgABB2t7N7z5A69LnryBRw4zUYDRRYLTYlBlYgg+xILm2c0OrBdxJgLJa7JE50Eo25 d3PFwt9J0gYvqy6sPFLl9So0sDg9zm0hKQtXOP5kgropUFGrNoJI+mjwF4rYLRBVzZwNAvlO OhEvHubBo3mEllv4x+FeptwXZxlk7gUsdqI8AxnFB8K9wi6FVQARAQABtBtEYWxlIDxyZGFs ZWsxOTY3QGdtYWlsLmNvbT6JAk4EEwEIADgCGyMFCwkIBwIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AW IQQSG1h01ruv/WNXc3Q3RqOgiQH1GwUCYVJy8gAKCRA3RqOgiQH1G+waEACeTZCt77jnRAmQ AV7otKuZekDWiLi3Eig8tj5ZJiCNSYA/hIxzmexRP0GMqjitcXK1iGwWcvMzzvIq30GAjIfB 4BR38cnXbtBa6fNewiT7QaZe/Hn6yBRldXNQypzbHy+/o27bUEy+oX4rE7etUgEHQAjuw7xz XFWg4tH1/KJvsOVY5upnWc5LdxYhsuQ3dQD4b22GsK0pOBDfb9PiirYM8eGKvrVuq4E/c75z lDDFhINl18lNZ9D0ZFL3IkTjHsAAqFH9uhnnEB8CWdHbBewPEfRaOhBUYWZ3Q8uTkmDgZT8q D9jlvLEdw7Nh2ApdxoepnI/4D+ql2Gr4DtH7SEPydr5gcf1Qr/2bXRb1hAYnIVcbncs/Bm3Z bkRKPVWMfE3Fusa+p5hMzixk0YysMaTHlc7mYRYAEZGnPMXnmcCbetwARU7A0yz1M1kCMOAQ Lsz8KH5kv3cRenMB6SFfjND2JfAK61H5TtnPq3L8noS2ZykRYxq9Nm3X64O1tJojIKBoZFr8 AwYNCvqC6puUyGMuzHPh7jPof8glfrrEKIYUvNPGMDoVX3IGetxh/9l6NcxgFA4JGoR+LS3C zmeNrwlllAe3OEUfKoWVQ+pagpSdM+8hHolaSda4Ys66Z3fCR4ZvcTqfhTAVskpqdXa4isAk 7vTcXu3L499ttywEp7rJTbkCDQRhUnImARAAncUdVhmtRr59zqpTUppKroQYlzR0jv8oa7DG K4gakTAT2N7evnI9wpssmzyVk8VEiLzhnFQ/Ol3FRt6hZCXDJt0clyHOyTfvz/MNFttWuZTc mLpSvmRR6VRjAH+Tz3Eam2xUw3PGuH97BcXQ3NnX3msv1UDxtxxBu6e2YrdeOhrCUSgzokcJ 98ChUNy934cgepPybAI12lSWqVFQ1aG7jExZfiUk+333fPSDbpKoZbTW5YJLXbycmW/C1IWL qYQyNjRWKaGoJtUWFhhmNiOQct7n90aKivNVPavmN+UQ9LlMaINtf9T6XCzLfogCFsulDCDJ 0yNQLDTurHaB4E71xoctgXmLLq9z1RQ0W2XiVAAOZQj6K3+d0AOUjDhCQ2QW8dUSq0ckkZXV DKVJOGS8Nhf2eIWIqRnP3AcUiiaiFGqUaVUmUAZ6h/oJmgghEu/1S+pcuUKU5i69+XCZ3hH2 Jzwzbf7K+FAIkOhCfHncF8i1N1pk00pOVykNnqHTfFo3qFusHt0ZWgXVnnn4pYdXqZNoDhvF BRE5Vm4k/k96Pw8HRx6Os6eFSRrlqGzRgqsu86FekxusXB9UGv4lJhtU/J+8MRWsh22K718s DbQnABicGKFz1qQlWvcf59oTByhLINJCBt1WXl+TzJDXepr3QSkqmK41dO9Hob97C9dMiK8A EQEAAYkCNgQYAQgAIAIbDBYhBBIbWHTWu6/9Y1dzdDdGo6CJAfUbBQJhUnLyAAoJEDdGo6CJ AfUbVHIQAKSWw620vPhR3A/njU2z77F3z/Jk+HTKdE3fIyWSWdkYN7CBFL0NguOMP30WZ+qE sJhZu7T5hf251MwQUUt27xlfnKYOmQs7CqONlXuXlGZI6WufrUjxNcVz+5gJsqvUWuuJWsgg sDmE92IBnfG/f81fPHWQyfr/SF4wYDMyoFp5xCCQpp1zB63iuFvvrhxBkEHzmbRtVDOhl0Xp BVEDR1w3QRACw9QJD/KM05Czv9JNQYlwinWO/OaQ9cMlUpKLgswUPg9IZ5vucxScfuAUA5uC B1jlAQ8ZPlVukBmbEv5RGOv+lpuEbA3YDMVtEeH4YMFbjt/+vH3Cr2vTbp5JlpByLburJEH0 WXZLUawEfUsZvVwpOuJK75vaa2HYXee+Cb3iCIzwfIfctdlqzUcbGRczlRNM59hpvj4z29Gh 3kAxVHItAYq54ikxQ9l4hQ8s9sLYPbX/WtcBxNX8crBSw0FLnmzGleVEtBHyqtt5CLzQNgrj GYWl1vKDUmRPw1CdZ1c+fMN9CY11jOM5B5ZnqZWfDeVYO2iJ5SuvTycChexCb8WYn1bdCBIo bBtga2RBXbVt4Mh9E4owsszefn51MwfjXxB20Fc5k3GU1AVpTCMs3ayYCzo0b2pvEvdjtDcA CYLEFPWgaFX9iQAM/CDfKvTtvgGWpqtCL2raq/mQoJEU Message-ID: <70cea21f-bdf3-bbee-2f83-e69152c7646c@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2023 20:15:15 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/91.0 SeaMonkey/2.53.15 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <31e6d9f7-3e2b-59aa-f57f-2f18473cd33f@youngman.org.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Archives-Salt: 0b87aa3f-a920-44aa-85b5-d33c22139b1b X-Archives-Hash: a648e9e593e85a1220d99e8760d94156 Wols Lists wrote: > On 18/04/2023 23:13, Frank Steinmetzger wrote: >>> /var/tmp/portage on tmpfs. And on every disk I allocate a swap >>> partition >>> equal to twice the mobo's max memory. Three drives times 64GB times >>> two is a >>> helluva lot of swap. > >> Uhm … why? The moniker of swap = 2×RAM comes from times when RAM was >> scarce. >> What do you need so much swap for, especially with 32 GB RAM to begin >> with? >> And if you really do have use cases which cause regular swapping, >> it’d be >> less painful if you just added some more RAM. > > Actually, if you know your history, it does NOT come from "times when > RAM was scarce". It comes from the original Unix swap algorithm which > NEEDED twice ram. > > I've searched (unsuccessfully) on LWN for the story, but at some point > (I think round about kernel 2.4.10) Linus ripped out all the ugly > "optimisation" code, and anybody who ran the vanilla kernel with "swap > but less than twice ram" found it crashed the instant the system > touched swap. Linus was not sympathetic to people who hadn't read the > release notes ... > > Andrea Arcangeli and someone else (I've forgotten who) wrote two > competing memory managers in classic "Linus managerial style" as he > played them off against each other. > > I've always allocated swap like that pretty much ever since. Maybe the > new algorithm hasn't got the old wanting twice ram, maybe it has, I > never found out, but I've not changed that habit. > > (NB This system is pretty recent, my previous system had iirc 8GB (and > a maxed out value of 16GB), not enough for a lot of the bigger programs. > > Before that point, I gather it actually made a difference to the > efficiency of the system as the optimisations kicked in, but everybody > believed it was an old wives tale - until Linus did that ... > > Cheers, > Wol > > I've always had some swap but never twice the ram.  Even back on my single core rig with 4GBs of ram, I only had a couple GBs or so of swap.  Heck, I have swappiness set to 1 here on current rig.  I don't want swap used unless it is to prevent a out of memory crash.  Given the amount of memory available today, unless you know you still don't have enough memory, swap really isn't needed.  Adding more memory is a much better solution.  I've actually considered disabling mine completely but sometimes Firefox gets a wild hair and starts consuming memory.  When my TV stops playing, I know it's at it again.  Hasn't happened in a while tho.  That's the thing about swap, it usually slows a system to a crawl.  I can usually tell if even a few MBs of swap is being used just by the slowness of the system to respond to even simply changing from one desktop to another.  The need for swap in most cases isn't what it used to be.  Dale :-)  :-)