* Re: [gentoo-user] Postfix receives OK, but won't send to internet
2005-09-23 8:31 ` Neil Bothwick
@ 2005-09-23 12:11 ` John Jolet
2005-09-23 13:06 ` Mark Shields
2005-09-23 13:37 ` [gentoo-user] [OT] " Willie Wong
` (2 subsequent siblings)
3 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: John Jolet @ 2005-09-23 12:11 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-user
On Sep 23, 2005, at 3:31 AM, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 22:38:07 -0400, Sean Lester wrote:
>
>
>> That's it. I didn't think the ISP would block outgoing port 25.
>>
>
> Unfortunately, quite a lot seem to do it. it's a lazy and lame
> "solution"
> to spam trojans. Other ISPs forward all port 25 connections to
> their own
> SMTP server, so your mail may not be delivered directly, but it is
> delivered.
>
> Even if port 25 isn't blocked or redirected, it is often worth
> using your
> ISP's relay even if you have a broadband connection. Some ISP's block
> incoming mail from IP ranges allocated to broadband users as an
> anti-spam
> measure.
>
one unfortunately corollary to this is my isp doesn't block outgoing
port 25, but DOES limit the number of emails you send via their
relay. I send a newsletter for my kids' school's pta and I could not
do that if I couldn't send at least a chunk of them directly.
--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread* Re: [gentoo-user] Postfix receives OK, but won't send to internet
2005-09-23 12:11 ` John Jolet
@ 2005-09-23 13:06 ` Mark Shields
2005-09-23 15:52 ` Dave Nebinger
0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Mark Shields @ 2005-09-23 13:06 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-user
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A tad off-topic, but John, why don't you setup a mailing list and have the
PTA members join?
On 9/23/05, John Jolet <john@jolet.net> wrote:
>
>
> On Sep 23, 2005, at 3:31 AM, Neil Bothwick wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 22:38:07 -0400, Sean Lester wrote:
> >
> >
> >> That's it. I didn't think the ISP would block outgoing port 25.
> >>
> >
> > Unfortunately, quite a lot seem to do it. it's a lazy and lame
> > "solution"
> > to spam trojans. Other ISPs forward all port 25 connections to
> > their own
> > SMTP server, so your mail may not be delivered directly, but it is
> > delivered.
> >
> > Even if port 25 isn't blocked or redirected, it is often worth
> > using your
> > ISP's relay even if you have a broadband connection. Some ISP's block
> > incoming mail from IP ranges allocated to broadband users as an
> > anti-spam
> > measure.
> >
> one unfortunately corollary to this is my isp doesn't block outgoing
> port 25, but DOES limit the number of emails you send via their
> relay. I send a newsletter for my kids' school's pta and I could not
> do that if I couldn't send at least a chunk of them directly.
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>
--
- Mark Shields
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* RE: [gentoo-user] Postfix receives OK, but won't send to internet
2005-09-23 13:06 ` Mark Shields
@ 2005-09-23 15:52 ` Dave Nebinger
2005-09-23 16:11 ` John Jolet
0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Dave Nebinger @ 2005-09-23 15:52 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-user
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That would be the same problem; mailing lists still have to send mail from
the originating host.
John I'd suggest yahoo - they have a groups section where you can set up a
mailing list - they host the list, you just handle the posting.
A tad off-topic, but John, why don't you setup a mailing list and have the
PTA members join?
one unfortunately corollary to this is my isp doesn't block outgoing
port 25, but DOES limit the number of emails you send via their
relay. I send a newsletter for my kids' school's pta and I could not
do that if I couldn't send at least a chunk of them directly.
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-user] Postfix receives OK, but won't send to internet
2005-09-23 15:52 ` Dave Nebinger
@ 2005-09-23 16:11 ` John Jolet
0 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: John Jolet @ 2005-09-23 16:11 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-user
On Friday 23 September 2005 10:52, Dave Nebinger wrote:
> John I'd suggest yahoo - they have a groups section where you can set up a
> mailing list - they host the list, you just handle the posting.
yeah, but they put ads at the bottom and you have no control over what is in
the ad...I'm a bit of a control-freak that way. Eventually, I'll rewrite all
this so it runs from our hosted web/ftp/mail space.
--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Postfix receives OK, but won't send to internet
2005-09-23 8:31 ` Neil Bothwick
2005-09-23 12:11 ` John Jolet
@ 2005-09-23 13:37 ` Willie Wong
2005-09-23 15:20 ` [gentoo-user] " kashani
2005-09-23 22:19 ` Jonathan Wright
3 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: Willie Wong @ 2005-09-23 13:37 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-user
On Fri, Sep 23, 2005 at 09:31:34AM +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 22:38:07 -0400, Sean Lester wrote:
>
> > That's it. I didn't think the ISP would block outgoing port 25.
>
> Unfortunately, quite a lot seem to do it. it's a lazy and lame "solution"
> to spam trojans. Other ISPs forward all port 25 connections to their own
> SMTP server, so your mail may not be delivered directly, but it is
> delivered.
>
> Even if port 25 isn't blocked or redirected, it is often worth using your
> ISP's relay even if you have a broadband connection. Some ISP's block
> incoming mail from IP ranges allocated to broadband users as an anti-spam
> measure.
>
Ha. In my case, my ISP (Optimum Online) gets blacklisted from AOL and
a third of Taiwan (among other places). So sending mail through their
mail-server is like suicide.
What I do is to set up an SSH tunnel to my University mail-server
and bounce my mail through port forwarding...
W
--
"Yan Can Cook" and George Lucas have a new
joint-venture web site, titled "eWok".
Sortir en Pantoufles: up 42 days, 16:37
--
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-user] Postfix receives OK, but won't send to internet
2005-09-23 8:31 ` Neil Bothwick
2005-09-23 12:11 ` John Jolet
2005-09-23 13:37 ` [gentoo-user] [OT] " Willie Wong
@ 2005-09-23 15:20 ` kashani
2005-09-23 15:55 ` Neil Bothwick
2005-09-23 22:19 ` Jonathan Wright
3 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: kashani @ 2005-09-23 15:20 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-user
Neil Bothwick wrote:
> Unfortunately, quite a lot seem to do it. it's a lazy and lame "solution"
> to spam trojans. Other ISPs forward all port 25 connections to their own
> SMTP server, so your mail may not be delivered directly, but it is
> delivered.
>
> Even if port 25 isn't blocked or redirected, it is often worth using your
> ISP's relay even if you have a broadband connection. Some ISP's block
> incoming mail from IP ranges allocated to broadband users as an anti-spam
> measure.
I worked at probably the first nation wide US ISP to block port 25 to
any address other than our mail servers. While it was sad to see the
days of free and clear access to smtp dying there really wasn't much
choice. Blocking outbound port 25 access did a fine job of stopping
virus email that uses it's own stmp and spam hosts. While annoying to
some users I don't think it's something you can really get around these
days. Especially if you'd like to keep your IP space off trigger happy
blacklists.
However the above when implemented with port 25 inbound blocking sucks.
We never did that. And I've seen ISP's require their domain in the From:
line which breaks anyone's attempt at sending using their personal
domain. We didn't do retarded things like that either.
kashani
--
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-user] Postfix receives OK, but won't send to internet
2005-09-23 15:20 ` [gentoo-user] " kashani
@ 2005-09-23 15:55 ` Neil Bothwick
2005-09-23 18:18 ` kashani
0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Neil Bothwick @ 2005-09-23 15:55 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-user
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On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 10:20:50 -0500, kashani wrote:
> I worked at probably the first nation wide US ISP to block port
> 25 to any address other than our mail servers. While it was sad to see
> the days of free and clear access to smtp dying there really wasn't
> much choice.
There is, redirecting port 25 traffic. I discovered an ISP was doing this
by accident, when I switched to my backup ISP and forgot to change my
mail settings. It was only later that I realised mail was still going
out, despite my software being set to use a different ISP's server. So I
sent myself a mail and checked the headers, they were redirecting all
outgoing port 25 traffic to their own server.
--
Neil Bothwick
A day without sunshine is like night.
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-user] Postfix receives OK, but won't send to internet
2005-09-23 15:55 ` Neil Bothwick
@ 2005-09-23 18:18 ` kashani
0 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: kashani @ 2005-09-23 18:18 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-user
Neil Bothwick wrote:
> There is, redirecting port 25 traffic. I discovered an ISP was doing this
> by accident, when I switched to my backup ISP and forgot to change my
> mail settings. It was only later that I realised mail was still going
> out, despite my software being set to use a different ISP's server. So I
> sent myself a mail and checked the headers, they were redirecting all
> outgoing port 25 traffic to their own server.
Hmmm that's not a bad plan, but I could some cases whee that might
cause some issues. However overall it's probably better solution than
just blocking port 25 access to anything, but your own servers.
However back in '99 talking your dialup proviiders into tossing CPU
eating ACL's onto their gear was hard enough let alone doing something
complicated like hijacking smtp. I think even today it's hard to
implement something like that unless you own most of the gear involved
which isn't always the case.
kashani
--
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-user] Postfix receives OK, but won't send to internet
2005-09-23 8:31 ` Neil Bothwick
` (2 preceding siblings ...)
2005-09-23 15:20 ` [gentoo-user] " kashani
@ 2005-09-23 22:19 ` Jonathan Wright
3 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: Jonathan Wright @ 2005-09-23 22:19 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-user
Neil Bothwick wrote:
> Unfortunately, quite a lot seem to do it. it's a lazy and lame "solution"
> to spam trojans. Other ISPs forward all port 25 connections to their own
> SMTP server, so your mail may not be delivered directly, but it is
> delivered.
Having run a mail server from home, that's not the only problem to worry
about any more - many ISPs/Mail Hosts now maintain (black)lists of IPs
belonging to ADSL/Dial up Services (i.e. dynamically assigned IPs) which
they'll refuse to accept e-mail from.
So, if your ISP doesn't block traffic, you'll end up being caught out by
that aswell! :(
--
Jonathan Wright ~ mail at djnauk.co.uk
~ www.djnauk.co.uk
--
2.6.12-gentoo-r6-djnauk-b2 AMD Athlon(tm) XP 2100+
up 12:04, 4 users, load average: 4.46, 4.09, 3.68
--
"This is what's wrong with the media," I said. "You show a
fringe position. You show one point of view. You're closing the
minds of the people by not showing them what the reality is." I
got up and walked out, and I've never been asked back again."
"About a year ago I was a guest on a network news show in New
York. They were showing film clips from a gay pride parade down
Fifth Avenue, but they only decided to show the part with men in
dresses and heels. I had seen the parade, and there were men in
business suits as well. After showing the film, the newsperson
made some comments, and I found the comments extremely
offensive."
~ Kathleen Nolan
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread