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[74.188.248.51]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t83sm767853oie.58.2020.10.29.10.39.33 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 29 Oct 2020 10:39:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [O/T] PSU caps To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org References: <9f2169f0-78ac-de8c-004e-df1c701a8ca3@gmail.com> <5405077.DvuYhMxLoT@lenovo.localdomain> <72cb6f0a-76be-6d55-4c66-acd0729d1733@gmail.com> <1677832.VLH7GnMWUR@lenovo.localdomain> From: Dale Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=rdalek1967@gmail.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBFxc7MgBEAC+zrgEdqJJiDe/UDAB+ScmferXWfJTVjbVT2T4DQ7jiLrgP9aNUo1HioNF mrU3JPOCR32gvZyTbY1+niO5+VSo/+pSqQ785h6ZDj1klMkrg6tEzGnf2MNBpBj4houZwxQ+ WDKKTg2M9F+lv8wTIdR/JQn+hSviktLMtrghQlyLhpapsLXWLA6gMFebpQYwxUwemvan8ddX lQvJe9FGyFYvBi0dp1gl10F2O+DVZJxvX8xkX+yImVlhVJiC31gXHRcj+Qlo7gprlU7TIieF Uow6/ZvYKJ26pztVdFCg5w0rMJkF/x8Zd4A6wnuptiAPmWaQ1+YKgYDonbDUgwqFSx5/lN5z DGZ4LlioxeUTTPVvZsqBIeDz6jNFA583OYbo1/S26dqrvTFf2DKlsvoDpVfAhNlwJPjoixs0 X3FNqPv+M10n4kq5Iz7Q9E3O4s/nfFIYGocEslVka7zZPkXSaHbsn+KJlY8XV6qxtCEdh0/V XX1+1aU2J74M0JikWhpwxTZ1dP5aOyWSPPEgFFIRW6xwwC02SoRH9a7mggfGYp/YjPlONNaT SCL8sgRfvmq3D0XTbLyTjSbExxkfKDmbePQagawDE3TlI/oivHf1JaAcbwMb3LZuU4TGcOIl 5D+x7q0MUIeCop0ZFOwAnqW3AVVNvsBkv2KN+IHJryWAf0/iMQARAQABtBtEYWxlIDxyZGFs ZWsxOTY3QGdtYWlsLmNvbT6JAk4EEwEIADgWIQTZ7suruPBaS60bCYXvEM/XWu+ZnAUCXFzs yAIbIwULCQgHAgYVCgkICwIEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAAKCRDvEM/XWu+ZnN+7D/4/1dNG4aCz0+v+ 0dcjV5tY1feYEWCdHKyDzxWBxlCpd/0NPRQeNY4VMjbCl/sq7GkXi/c2SbfWDQ5BQRkkExG1 pSwuXSIehGok/4fpTi3HDAguRvzdCqlKPt7me05FyiC/WnpY5GOlJ3ruGw2qABv/RmV2q5b/ tkq7h1y1f16DTNr3/nsj8HzHcrHdXdL4kaYChSOe/dbQR9Stqak7eMyR+iwvrJMNF/CGl70P 2x5ybsXMDzRVOqNcpa5ZdhEMTVh6+vC1SOmm1BFMF8XCqBEvBbcHWDQmGYTdNCsS/ADm8CBl gvjJgLdIsAzoMu4WHQDFnzXAoArqFWgAf53isOS4AWrv29tF9b8Aa1vb7h5JEa+ArcMsA6Gl X38+GY6WXXaxKI9n3PTCWu9tPGnRh7mABjnwEosDDqmzw8aTAYECb3avDuGY2rmcjgh4H6RE w08d63j1T4d5J9wlm4TGtW/VHgbUFkATEdH3Acl/EjFiyqTiX7p8kU6Reu5enIkogA93xoQh Rmy7ZiST/5LN+ZkaOdyjIw0L+5KalslN9SKt809YxgJ6kPo657LNTFPiFvFA46/SEWcBYrzq Xk0wEW0gBRWf+BqN0qRhU0/EQ+QfRdLLFg2xtUePwlheYLXxfyDLrdCCOLWYpkzbjCZHLS4u 69smbvR9S9KBDNzJybxEWrkCDQRcXOzIARAA5IGRWTqaM44IJgBYghZg2fGj0Am7KWPhE7V7 T/EEe7vVSUEFqHtlHzI4ZK6Q0AZ9uAEjE8IJIQ7KoTjzNqAtabP0vp3s0szgtJlsZ+8vGKlQ my7fvzSrdoQL0Xn7CEwJYFXJ1EMUcYIQeoHG1cUAaXx73k9BFbjwjnUeMrqlV/ZovQlg7duW nESfQ7HZu5NrtYyY3jPMUouxiO9WQPh+IHxZbt1absF2VcvRAymD32RxGvMPbw6ChMRD/p9O 4PH7M5rXaxr78NXQX9E48vrI00f1cYb9NSN1HnSV8cW3jKObVjdBk6jPQwrMvdpgdQhUB9aZ HS/9mC9mmAgiXKyCpzXe7FPB6QznSfn4GIaC/luy1e6SLUkJhRK/niB+gq+Mfxg2zXNuDUTI cMGmpDCp3kgUoorkaltk8RW09io95BkXrGhcDNuSGZfAParBc7RXyYpbIcax8St7tEAd2oFh 4seYOPUlzuhGrPpqR/91wrFc4E1260GKauSr4UhMJv6tygBwyC0mmBMKi+ZXw6ZdZxA5fg7y 35P3TILjznCXXTDgRHq9A3NknKRMcgFacX6eIhANkMFo6oJVjuEgy1dvu1wFfDq7c+i8GAHu L4pYzyXYu6PporlNNU0xSwdVgzM/uuK0lt+UxCimgC+YR3IezgDcbfudb7h9dGIwL+bbPL0A EQEAAYkCNgQYAQgAIBYhBNnuy6u48FpLrRsJhe8Qz9da75mcBQJcXOzIAhsMAAoJEO8Qz9da 75mcXZ4P/1YXgWDZek7mhzrf6uaQzMxa92P89HeWz4PlgB/32symeEFAV04WazzBZffI8AYY rGA1Xmu/2VaB9+FOODyKhUWBc2UL0NRWBk6POwboyTdKlclmpixaN9zLcBt0YLejoRfN1B/5 aQf9/lUDZMnAiCyz0FgeqEMUshldmwWC35RqnjrCbbuk2vIqSH6BLDIXU6jQrLHE1DF0ai41 wLtQFAFXPhn45n0ZwYhVs4Z32z4sjXrIvgBgCaXa4HM+L1Klne0KiNM8ReFTTpTE0SgyDOSZ O3MOa2n77i6JbVtsbiFYnNeP3J9S/l3jevGpZEtNQOKrIm1MW8jGuHWtsDeMkT/mCcSodlkt PxIo+mMK9GpGvG2hW80LiohqNfUbNwAmr3blOYY4URPXPRnEnPs4pmTmL5owjw2dkg145i9I D42Tq+XZ6YtWt3SGzGbAYow6XwTwZ5NFAzV9UQuCGrDw4KWan6O6Z+VIYWsn0UMZlu1Obxna aocofkaUCbISK26kImuD1aA8juSHC18Qv1xUage6/UakbSxyDtACqt6hOVFKX3IA59ApdNRT +2x3iCmlvF9MJsGgFq6IpqL+Fk7iWV8Kjbz0wQOId6N9+JdQh3LrLaS7a1PowUm1z9DK5/O0 Yg+gpDnEOOFI7WM5u7a7FSM2Z/LXGVwel/0eWvLk9tN6 Message-ID: <637310e1-d186-d925-4d35-651e93a48a17@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2020 12:39:32 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/60.0 SeaMonkey/2.53.4 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1677832.VLH7GnMWUR@lenovo.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Archives-Salt: 06a3a32c-0c58-4b4b-a8f9-b45ed823ef09 X-Archives-Hash: 8d84a39c0c0811a39d7abfe0c3402f91 Michael wrote: > On Wednesday, 28 October 2020 22:57:25 GMT Dale wrote: >> Michael wrote: >>> On Wednesday, 28 October 2020 19:27:06 GMT Dale wrote: >>>> I'm thinking about replacing that cap and seeing if it works. I've >>>> repaired a few monitors that way but my question is, should I trust it >>>> after replacing that cap even if it works?? Should it be load tested or >>>> something? Does the protection circuitry only work once? >>> It depends what was damaged and the cause of it. It could be the >>> capacitor >>> reached its predicted end of life. It could have been a transient >>> voltage, in which case more things in the protection circuit (diodes, >>> resistors) may have also been damaged. >>> >>> I had an old desktop which during a lightning storm ended up with a blown >>> PSU and a blown winmodem. The winmodem was unrepairable, but the PSU >>> survived following the replacement of a single capacitor. :-) >>> >>> For the cost of a capacitor I'd give it a try and then measure the output >>> voltages under load. >> Well, we getting rain but I haven't heard a single bit of thunder or any >> light blinking. Nothing really bad anywhere near us either. It's the >> hurricane thing again. I might add, I got surge protection coming out >> my ears. One in the main breaker box that should protect everything. >> It's installed right below the main breaker. > This type of surge protectors are good for mains transients and can be reset > when they trip. > It also has a indicator that tells when it is done protecting or something happens and it trips the breaker.  >> Another one at the wall plug where I plug my UPS in. > These may or may not reset - depending on the type. The multi-socket > extensions with varistors (MOV) in them are not a fit and forget item. If > they have seen repeated or prolonged overvoltage conditions close or above to > their clamping voltage value, they can and do degrade over time. So you may > think I'm well protected me, but when the next transient comes along the surge > protector provides next to no protection at all. A close by lightning strike > will cause the varistor to fail catastrophically, in which case you'll know > it's cooked and take action to replace the unit, but otherwise you wouldn't be > aware of its suboptimal capability. > These also have a indicator that indicates when they have absorbed all the surges they can.  In the past, I've had a few go out.  I replace them when needed.  The biggest issue with power around here, sags or just total blinks.  Our power company has surge arrestors in several places along the lines.  Sometimes when I'm driving down the road, I see them.  They place different kinds of protection devices to help protect from different power issues.  Some are just a basic spark gap that when the voltage gets to high it sparks and some are large cans which work like a large MOV.  Very effective given the high voltages on the wires.  Sometimes after a large storm comes through, I see them in the bucket trucks replacing them.  No telling how many TVs or deep freezers that may have saved.  >> End of life. That is my bet. I did a search for when I ordered the >> power supply. It is within a month or so of being 10 years old. I may >> replace that capacitor just for giggles but honestly, I got my money out >> of that thing a few years ago. I'd be worried about the other >> capacitors in there too. Are they about to pop as well?? Who knows. > If they are not domed they ought to be OK. > > A big power surge will overheat the capacitor, causing the electrolyte paste > to evaporate fast and blow its top off. > > Lower surges, or operating in overheated conditions for prolonged periods will > cause it to dome as it expands. It may also cause it to leak slowly, in which > case it may not pop/explode. There are a number of failure modes of > electrolytic capacitors, but I don't recall all of them. > > The wear and tear of capacitors is a function of temperature and voltage. As > long as both are kept low they will last long(er). They may be OK at the moment but what about a month down the road?  Six months down the road?  Yea, the one with the most pressure, read that as heat, voltage and other conditions, may pop first but the others may follow suite sometime after that.  The thing is ten years old and the other caps are likely the same age.  Of course, power supplies nowadays have really good protection.  Odds are it won't do any damage outside the power supply itself but there is always a risk.  Given the price of a decent power supply, it may be better to just buy a new one.  It is tempting tho.  Dale :-)  :-)