From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5FE1E139085 for ; Sun, 18 Dec 2016 18:28:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C1435E0DED; Sun, 18 Dec 2016 18:28:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-wm0-x244.google.com (mail-wm0-x244.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::244]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3B191E0DBB for ; Sun, 18 Dec 2016 18:28:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-wm0-x244.google.com with SMTP id g23so14870857wme.1 for ; Sun, 18 Dec 2016 10:28:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=6LQiQ3PMYzRM0W+U4FGBh5qJmFz81n8EfqU2WmvsdDQ=; b=KCO69mQV+q6x9TtIwW/d2NfUOMzYnw+50lfMwl2M3U/qd607jhP61zNpXEfJ9bWG4L OTIG4381H/U+5VVwfoFCu9KQ/DvA/2HQ0b+ivRiWS513dcg4tdrTPAQKOjdrrjQMeuMc tJ/MQoN6vphc9uGQVQGgB9rSxt+e4T8sjqXZdwZNmyu4B5lWTSE5CH/Qvtbn3/Vn36Ea UeN0uGA0EIK/EqbCVtOPVqe8WEp/7YJLK5TSWoXsfhwwAWRjgLWgGPBHuxifbg7gBa+W jEKOYHtw3mEMVXHK1efqwQ/l2y1YAUDygikEYbLuhB0ENAOBGCt7AJyXnWx58r3fI0Nl 81Ew== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=6LQiQ3PMYzRM0W+U4FGBh5qJmFz81n8EfqU2WmvsdDQ=; b=pUY4fvpGXJdWIIFVLzYEaihPBqwe6omgwvxLCTztFElyNoApoAUj6w1kT+b01tz2+q gyJnkDSCHOeFxNsi9kiYkSDY+pXiewEINKhMSshPpyPTae2rHkjut0Nczx27oBM8+tu9 CdMPlg6K/AKPS+vMB/NyYvJZo0U0MlI1So/bkS0y6pNXywtaqiBO7N7KTmXvyAgp5rqu WD8EKd8Jqhgp4GUlgYS9zVgS4krZUVFkAMMM+FltkbyFWmOPXJ7vjiSI6bFon4Vcacdv ruYYrdYuXloYLp5SaRGcEkC/IxSDG7H2bOlQmUR+Rp7aBGCGqA6e1btp0X9lxG++uo6h 3nDA== X-Gm-Message-State: AIkVDXIAq7KkG6/9nj+/G1r26+7roEmfmQjc1V8aVKSru4OGpT72cldc2HlNpTtCiC78ag== X-Received: by 10.28.175.195 with SMTP id y186mr11391248wme.68.1482085716756; Sun, 18 Dec 2016 10:28:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.20.0.40] ([196.212.62.210]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id l6sm13650056wmd.5.2016.12.18.10.28.35 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 18 Dec 2016 10:28:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org References: <20161015182743.GB4541@solfire> <20161216101951.GA29887@g0n.xdwgrp> <20161216131315.GA4052@g0n.xdwgrp> <20161216165118.GA26704@g0n.xdwgrp> <20161217055520.GA13608@waltdnes.org> <20161217085341.311b4c0f@digimed.co.uk> <5a387b87-b1cd-f061-3008-3c774973b483@gentoo.org> <1db1de34-2bb4-9597-61fd-030a2e7f5209@gentoo.org> <87zijt5glw.fsf@heimdali.yagibdah.de> From: Alan McKinnon Message-ID: <633971a7-81d4-a3a4-5a85-714218780f8f@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2016 20:26:34 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.5.1 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <87zijt5glw.fsf@heimdali.yagibdah.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archives-Salt: c16effe1-a35f-47b6-996b-ec890f64ee89 X-Archives-Hash: b9b64a034c752b38d7b2088e2976a394 On 18/12/2016 18:47, lee wrote: > Rich Freeman writes: > >> The universe of Linux systems that are running Firefox but not >> Pulseaudio is fairly small at this point. > > Pulseaudio eats away about 10% CPU without any benefit whatsoever, not > to mention that it makes things more complex and less reliable. Why > would anyone use it? > > Developers might try to make their lifes easier by developing software > to the point where nobody wants to use it, except for the few developers > perhaps. With firefox, a policy like that contradicts their claims. > > > This is another issue which comes up quite often with FOSS. Developers > claim to be doing something in the interest of their users and are > asking for support. When you take a closer look, you find that they > don't, and when you offer support, they do not want it. > > Why can't they just say that they are making software for themselves the > way they want it and don't care about what anyone else says or wants? > It only gives reason to distrust someone when you find that they do not > do what they claim to be doing. > I think you are over-simplifying the situation here. Step back and look at the problem from the angle of "it's a bunch of people doing stuff" and not from a tech-centric angle. It's a people problem. You could make a valid case that the Mozilla devs are outright lying - they said they want xvy, and your offer to help provide xyz was rejected. But is it really that simple? I think it's more a case of the devs would like contributions for xyz and they don't mention the "everyone knows" "hidden assumption" of environment abc and general method def. Ahhhh, that's the usual tripping point. I don't know the specifics of your particular case, but my first approximation guess is that there's an abc and def in there which the devs didn't think to mention. Happens all the time, usually with stunningly obvious stuff that "everyone" thought "everyone else" knew about. Things like future roadmaps, planned features, and the individual personal preferences of each dev. I guess I'll saying don't be too quick to shoot from the hip - more looking less assuming is often the better path. -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckinnon@gmail.com