[gentoo-user] Question about difference between emerge --update world and emerge vigra

[gentoo-user] Question about difference between emerge --update world and emerge vigra

[SOrCErEr]

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Hello~

Yesterday, I did update my gentoo like this.

$ sudo emerge --update --deep --newuse world

As a result, one of the updated package tiff said like this.
 * Messages for package media-libs/tiff-3.8.2-r5:

 * JBIG support is intended for Hylafax fax compression, so we
 * really need more feedback in other areas (most testing has
 * been done with fax).  Be sure to recompile anything linked
 * against tiff if you rebuild it with jbig support.

So I checked what package linked with libtiff(Actually, there is no need to
do this. I just want to know).

$ revdep-rebuild -p --library /usr/lib/libtiff.so.3

Then, revdep-rebuild display like this.
[ebuild   R   ] media-libs/tiff-3.8.2-r5
[ebuild   R   ] media-gfx/imagemagick-6.4.3.5
[ebuild   R   ] media-libs/lcms-1.17
[ebuild     U ] media-libs/vigra-1.6.0 [1.5.0-r1]
[ebuild   R   ] net-print/cups-1.3.8-r1
[ebuild   R   ] x11-libs/gtk+-2.12.12
[ebuild   R   ] app-text/ghostscript-gpl-8.63
[ebuild   R   ] app-text/evince-2.22.2-r1
[ebuild   R   ] media-gfx/gthumb-2.10.9


As you can see, there is a package "vigra" with flag "U".
As I know, U is need to update, and if I do emerge --update world, it will
be update.

But there is no "vigra" in result of "emerge -p --update world"(with --deep
also).
Of course, it still shows flag "U" if I do "emerge -p vigra"

What is difference with emerge --update world and emerge vigra?
And how can I update all new package without exceptions?

If you know, please let me know.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Question about difference between emerge --update world and emerge vigra

[Thomas Kahle]

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Hi,

~ > Then, revdep-rebuild display like this.
| [ebuild   R   ] media-libs/tiff-3.8.2-r5
| [ebuild   R   ] media-gfx/imagemagick-6.4.3.5
| [ebuild   R   ] media-libs/lcms-1.17
| [ebuild     U ] media-libs/vigra-1.6.0 [1.5.0-r1]
| [ebuild   R   ] net-print/cups-1.3.8-r1
| [ebuild   R   ] x11-libs/gtk+-2.12.12
| [ebuild   R   ] app-text/ghostscript-gpl-8.63
| [ebuild   R   ] app-text/evince-2.22.2-r1
| [ebuild   R   ] media-gfx/gthumb-2.10.9
|
|
~ > But there is no "vigra" in result of "emerge -p --update world"(with
| --deep also).
| Of course, it still shows flag "U" if I do "emerge -p vigra"
|
| What is difference with emerge --update world and emerge vigra?
| And how can I update all new package without exceptions?

I am also curious to know why portage just "forgets" to update certain
packages. What I used to do to find them is a plain
eix -I | grep "\[U\]"
which just greps for the pattern [U] marking an upgradeable package.
Then you can format this list and run
emerge -1 `insert packagelist here`
The -1 is important to not register these packages in your world file,
which you probably don't wont for some package that only is a dependency.

Still, I would like to know how this happens...

hth
Tom
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Re: [gentoo-user] Question about difference between emerge --update world and emerge vigra

[Marc Joliet]

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Am Thu, 25 Sep 2008 13:05:20 +0900
schrieb SOrCErEr <omentie@gmail.com>:

> Hello~
> 
> Yesterday, I did update my gentoo like this.
> 
> $ sudo emerge --update --deep --newuse world
> 
> As a result, one of the updated package tiff said like this.
>  * Messages for package media-libs/tiff-3.8.2-r5:
> 
>  * JBIG support is intended for Hylafax fax compression, so we
>  * really need more feedback in other areas (most testing has
>  * been done with fax).  Be sure to recompile anything linked
>  * against tiff if you rebuild it with jbig support.
> 
> So I checked what package linked with libtiff(Actually, there is no need to
> do this. I just want to know).
> 
> $ revdep-rebuild -p --library /usr/lib/libtiff.so.3
> 
> Then, revdep-rebuild display like this.
> [ebuild   R   ] media-libs/tiff-3.8.2-r5
> [ebuild   R   ] media-gfx/imagemagick-6.4.3.5
> [ebuild   R   ] media-libs/lcms-1.17
> [ebuild     U ] media-libs/vigra-1.6.0 [1.5.0-r1]
> [ebuild   R   ] net-print/cups-1.3.8-r1
> [ebuild   R   ] x11-libs/gtk+-2.12.12
> [ebuild   R   ] app-text/ghostscript-gpl-8.63
> [ebuild   R   ] app-text/evince-2.22.2-r1
> [ebuild   R   ] media-gfx/gthumb-2.10.9
> 
> 
> As you can see, there is a package "vigra" with flag "U".
> As I know, U is need to update, and if I do emerge --update world, it will
> be update.
> 
> But there is no "vigra" in result of "emerge -p --update world"(with --deep
> also).
> Of course, it still shows flag "U" if I do "emerge -p vigra"
> 
> What is difference with emerge --update world and emerge vigra?
> And how can I update all new package without exceptions?
> 
> If you know, please let me know.

I think it should show up with 

	emerge -p --update [--deep] --with-bdeps=y world

if it's only a build-time dependency.

-- 
Marc Joliet
--
"People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who
know we don't" - Bjarne Stroustrup

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Re: [gentoo-user] Question about difference between emerge --update world and emerge vigra

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Thursday 25 September 2008, Thomas Kahle wrote:
> Hi,
>
> ~ > Then, revdep-rebuild display like this.
>
> | [ebuild   R   ] media-libs/tiff-3.8.2-r5
> | [ebuild   R   ] media-gfx/imagemagick-6.4.3.5
> | [ebuild   R   ] media-libs/lcms-1.17
> | [ebuild     U ] media-libs/vigra-1.6.0 [1.5.0-r1]
> | [ebuild   R   ] net-print/cups-1.3.8-r1
> | [ebuild   R   ] x11-libs/gtk+-2.12.12
> | [ebuild   R   ] app-text/ghostscript-gpl-8.63
> | [ebuild   R   ] app-text/evince-2.22.2-r1
> | [ebuild   R   ] media-gfx/gthumb-2.10.9
>
> ~ > But there is no "vigra" in result of "emerge -p --update world"(with
>
> | --deep also).
> | Of course, it still shows flag "U" if I do "emerge -p vigra"
> |
> | What is difference with emerge --update world and emerge vigra?
> | And how can I update all new package without exceptions?
>
> I am also curious to know why portage just "forgets" to update certain
> packages. What I used to do to find them is a plain
> eix -I | grep "\[U\]"
> which just greps for the pattern [U] marking an upgradeable package.
> Then you can format this list and run
> emerge -1 `insert packagelist here`
> The -1 is important to not register these packages in your world file,
> which you probably don't wont for some package that only is a dependency.
>
> Still, I would like to know how this happens...
>
> hth
> Tom

a) dependencies are not listed in world.

b) an 'orphaned' dependency wouldn't get caught with --deep.

Re: [gentoo-user] Question about difference between emerge --update world and emerge vigra

[Alan McKinnon]

On Thursday 25 September 2008 06:05:20 SOrCErEr wrote:
> As you can see, there is a package "vigra" with flag "U".
> As I know, U is need to update, and if I do emerge --update world, it will
> be update.
>
> But there is no "vigra" in result of "emerge -p --update world"(with --deep
> also).
> Of course, it still shows flag "U" if I do "emerge -p vigra"
>
> What is difference with emerge --update world and emerge vigra?
> And how can I update all new package without exceptions?

try using --with-bdeps=y

Ref: man emerge

The difference is that some dependant packages are only required to *build* 
something else, not to *run* it. So, the dependant package is only remerged 
when the package is depends on is itself rebuilt. --with-bdeps=y removes this 
exception

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Question about difference between emerge --update world and emerge vigra

[SOrCErEr]

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$  eix -l|grep "\[U\]"
[U] app-arch/rpm2targz
[U] app-editors/gedit
[U] app-text/build-docbook-catalog
[U] app-text/docbook-xml-dtd
[U] app-text/docbook-xsl-stylesheets
[U] app-text/libspectre
[U] dev-lang/python
[U] dev-lang/swig
[U] dev-libs/libcdio
[U] dev-perl/Compress-Raw-Zlib
[U] dev-perl/Compress-Zlib
[U] dev-perl/IO-Compress-Base
[U] dev-perl/IO-Compress-Zlib
[U] dev-python/pyopengl
[U] dev-util/cmake
[U] gnome-base/gdm
[U] gnome-extra/gnome-system-monitor
[U] gnome-extra/gtkhtml
[U] gnome-extra/yelp
[U] media-gfx/eog
[U] media-libs/musicbrainz
[U] media-libs/swfdec
[U] media-libs/vigra
[U] media-sound/cdparanoia
[U] media-sound/sound-juicer
[U] media-video/ffmpeg
[U] net-analyzer/traceroute
[U] net-libs/gtk-vnc
[U] net-misc/whois
[U] sys-apps/ed
[U] sys-libs/db
[U] sys-libs/gpm
[U] www-client/epiphany
[U] x11-libs/gtksourceview


$ emerge -p --update --deep --with-bdeps=y world
...
[ebuild     U ] app-text/build-docbook-catalog-1.4 [1.2]
[ebuild     U ] app-arch/rpm2targz-9.0.0.3g [9.0-r7]
[ebuild     U ] dev-perl/Compress-Raw-Zlib-2.015 [2.012] USE="-test%"
[ebuild     U ] dev-perl/IO-Compress-Base-2.015 [2.012] USE="-test%"
[ebuild     U ] dev-perl/IO-Compress-Zlib-2.015 [2.012] USE="-test%"
[ebuild     U ] dev-perl/Compress-Zlib-2.015 [2.012] USE="-test%"
[ebuild     U ] sys-apps/ed-1.0 [0.9]
[ebuild     U ] app-text/docbook-xsl-stylesheets-1.74.0 [1.73.2]
[ebuild  N    ] dev-libs/xmlrpc-c-1.14.07-r1  USE="curl cxx"
[ebuild     U ] dev-util/cmake-2.6.1 [2.4.6-r1] USE="-qt4%"
[ebuild     U ] dev-lang/swig-1.3.36 [1.3.34] USE="-octave%"


As you can see, result of eix has vigra, but of emerge still doesn't have.
Also, many of flag U package is excepted from emerge --update.

If so, I think Gentoo's world is not whole world.

Package was installed and it needs to be update. But it's not in world.
So... I don't know.
It's very... odd.




2008/9/25 Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com>

> On Thursday 25 September 2008 06:05:20 SOrCErEr wrote:
> > As you can see, there is a package "vigra" with flag "U".
> > As I know, U is need to update, and if I do emerge --update world, it
> will
> > be update.
> >
> > But there is no "vigra" in result of "emerge -p --update world"(with
> --deep
> > also).
> > Of course, it still shows flag "U" if I do "emerge -p vigra"
> >
> > What is difference with emerge --update world and emerge vigra?
> > And how can I update all new package without exceptions?
>
> try using --with-bdeps=y
>
> Ref: man emerge
>
> The difference is that some dependant packages are only required to *build*
> something else, not to *run* it. So, the dependant package is only remerged
> when the package is depends on is itself rebuilt. --with-bdeps=y removes
> this
> exception
>
> --
> alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
>
>

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Re: [gentoo-user] Question about difference between emerge --update world and emerge vigra

[Vladimir Rusinov]

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On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 1:54 PM, SOrCErEr <omentie@gmail.com> wrote:

> $  eix -l|grep "\[U\]"
> [U] app-arch/rpm2targz
> [U] app-editors/gedit
> [U] app-text/build-docbook-catalog
> [U] app-text/docbook-xml-dtd
> [U] app-text/docbook-xsl-stylesheets
> [U] app-text/libspectre
> [U] dev-lang/python
> [U] dev-lang/swig
> [U] dev-libs/libcdio
> [U] dev-perl/Compress-Raw-Zlib
> [U] dev-perl/Compress-Zlib
> [U] dev-perl/IO-Compress-Base
> [U] dev-perl/IO-Compress-Zlib
> [U] dev-python/pyopengl
> [U] dev-util/cmake
> [U] gnome-base/gdm
> [U] gnome-extra/gnome-system-monitor
> [U] gnome-extra/gtkhtml
> [U] gnome-extra/yelp
> [U] media-gfx/eog
> [U] media-libs/musicbrainz
> [U] media-libs/swfdec
> [U] media-libs/vigra
> [U] media-sound/cdparanoia
> [U] media-sound/sound-juicer
> [U] media-video/ffmpeg
> [U] net-analyzer/traceroute
> [U] net-libs/gtk-vnc
> [U] net-misc/whois
> [U] sys-apps/ed
> [U] sys-libs/db
> [U] sys-libs/gpm
> [U] www-client/epiphany
> [U] x11-libs/gtksourceview
>
>
> $ emerge -p --update --deep --with-bdeps=y world
> ...
> [ebuild     U ] app-text/build-docbook-catalog-1.4 [1.2]
> [ebuild     U ] app-arch/rpm2targz-9.0.0.3g [9.0-r7]
> [ebuild     U ] dev-perl/Compress-Raw-Zlib-2.015 [2.012] USE="-test%"
> [ebuild     U ] dev-perl/IO-Compress-Base-2.015 [2.012] USE="-test%"
> [ebuild     U ] dev-perl/IO-Compress-Zlib-2.015 [2.012] USE="-test%"
> [ebuild     U ] dev-perl/Compress-Zlib-2.015 [2.012] USE="-test%"
> [ebuild     U ] sys-apps/ed-1.0 [0.9]
> [ebuild     U ] app-text/docbook-xsl-stylesheets-1.74.0 [1.73.2]
> [ebuild  N    ] dev-libs/xmlrpc-c-1.14.07-r1  USE="curl cxx"
> [ebuild     U ] dev-util/cmake-2.6.1 [2.4.6-r1] USE="-qt4%"
> [ebuild     U ] dev-lang/swig-1.3.36 [1.3.34] USE="-octave%"
>
>
> As you can see, result of eix has vigra, but of emerge still doesn't have.
> Also, many of flag U package is excepted from emerge --update.
>
> If so, I think Gentoo's world is not whole world.
>

Gentoo's world only contains packages you have installed manually (emerge
package). and without -1 option. Would does not contains packages that have
been installed as dependencies to other packages.
You could view /var/lib/portage/world to see what it contains.

If you really need vigra, it is a good idea to add it to world file: emerge
--noreplace vigra
Howewer, I don't recommend add any dependencies which you are no using
directly to world. It would make --depclean useless.

-- 
Vladimir Rusinov
http://greenmice.info/

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Re: [gentoo-user] Question about difference between emerge --update world and emerge vigra

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Thu, 25 Sep 2008 18:54:06 +0900, SOrCErEr wrote:

> As you can see, result of eix has vigra, but of emerge still doesn't
> have. Also, many of flag U package is excepted from emerge --update.
> 
> If so, I think Gentoo's world is not whole world.

No it's not. A world update affects only the packages you installed and
their dependencies.

> Package was installed and it needs to be update. But it's not in world.

Why does it need to update? Is your system not running correctly because
of this? I suspect you don't need vigra at all,that it was installed as a
dependency of a package you no longer have, or that no longer depends on
it. What does emerge --depclean -p show?


-- 
Neil Bothwick

"Thou shalt not battle over operating systems. I am wise and in My wisdom
have created diverse and various operating systems."
  The Ten Usenet Commandments: One

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Re: [gentoo-user] Question about difference between emerge --update world and emerge vigra

[Alan McKinnon]

On Thursday 25 September 2008 12:12:23 Vladimir Rusinov wrote:
> Gentoo's world only contains packages you have installed manually (emerge
> package). and without -1 option. Would does not contains packages that have
> been installed as dependencies to other packages.
> You could view /var/lib/portage/world to see what it contains.
>
> If you really need vigra, it is a good idea to add it to world file: emerge
> --noreplace vigra
> Howewer, I don't recommend add any dependencies which you are no using
> directly to world. It would make --depclean useless.

I think he understands that by now. His question is more like:

If eix tells me that an update to vigra is available, then why does emerge -uD 
world not pick it up?

sorcerer, what is your arch, and what is the outputs from 'eix -e vigra' 
and 'emerge -pv media-libs/vigra'

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Question about difference between emerge --update world and emerge vigra

[Daniel Pielmeier]

2008/9/25 SOrCErEr <omentie@gmail.com>:
>
> What is difference with emerge --update world and emerge vigra?
> And how can I update all new package without exceptions?
>
> If you know, please let me know.
>

When looking at the packages to be merged, I guess you are running
unstable gentoo. Which version of portage do you use. 2.2_rc9?
Many things have changed with portage-2.2. So I recommend reading the
documentation of portage first.

I am not using portage 2.2, but with stable portage the following
almost everytime helps to get a sane state:

emerge -uND --with-bdeps=y world
revdep-rebuild -i
emerge -p --depclean

Before you let depclean remove anything make sure you really don't
need it and you have run python-updater (there is something like this
for perl too which I don't recall at the moment).

Also make sure you have a clean world file, which means if there is an
entry which is already needed by something else it should normally be
removed as this could cause problems.

[gentoo-user] Re: Question about difference between emerge --update world and emerge vigra

[James]

Daniel Pielmeier <daniel.pielmeier <at> googlemail.com> writes:

> Also make sure you have a clean world file, which means if there is an
> entry which is already needed by something else it should normally be
> removed as this could cause problems.


Ahhh,

Excellent point that I have been pondering lately. I manage quite a few
workstations all running gentoo and a few servers. None of the servers
are a problem. Most of the workstations have mostly similar software installed,
with relatively short world files.

However a  few workstations have very long world files. So I presume they
need to be 'pruned'......


Do you have any further advice, more detail or some more formalized methodology
to 'clean' the world file, in addition to what you have stated above?



James

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Question about difference between emerge --update world and emerge vigra

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Thu, 25 Sep 2008 15:08:23 +0000 (UTC), James wrote:

> Do you have any further advice, more detail or some more formalized
> methodology to 'clean' the world file,

Hack out anything you think is unnecessary
Run emerge --depclean -p
Add anything you need with emerge -n
Rinse and repeat


-- 
Neil Bothwick

BORG spreadsheet program: Locutus 1-2-3.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Question about difference between emerge --update world and emerge vigra

[Hilco Wijbenga]

On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 03:27, Daniel Pielmeier
<daniel.pielmeier@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Also make sure you have a clean world file, which means if there is an
> entry which is already needed by something else it should normally be
> removed as this could cause problems.

I can understand that if I have both package P and dependency D in
world, and I remove P then depclean will not remove D. I assume that's
not what you're talking about, though, as it's harmless and probably
intended (since I listed D in world).

Moreover, I would think this is quite common. You might have
Java/Perl/Python/Ruby/* explicitely listed in world (because you write
programs/scripts) and several packages that are either
Java/Perl/Python/Ruby/* based or provide bindings. I *want* to be
explicit here as I don't want Java/Perl/Python/Ruby/* removed should I
remove those other packages.

So what kind of problems are we talking about?

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Question about difference between emerge --update world and emerge vigra

[Daniel Pielmeier]

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2008/9/25 James <wireless@tampabay.rr.com>:

> Do you have any further advice, more detail or some more formalized methodology
> to 'clean' the world file, in addition to what you have stated above?
>

Every entry in the world file that has a reverse dependency could be
removed. Unfortunately there is no tool I know which can calculate
reverse dependencies correctly. Maybe there is some functionality in
pkgcore or paludis which I am not aware of. So others need to inform
us about this.

However, this question has already been raised and Alber Hopkins
attached a python script in an earlier thread which should show
unneeded entries in the world file. It did not work for me but I have
attached it, maybe you have more luck than I.

The solution I use is app-portage/udept. It is not maintained anymore
so I recommend to use the ebuild from this bug [1] which at least has
a few advantages over the ebuild in the tree. Udept used to be a
powerful script but a few functions do not work properly anymore. The
option for cleaning the world file works reliable though. Just invoke
it with "dep -w"

[1] http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=172611

Regards,

Daniel

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#!/usr/bin/python
"""
Report any packages in world which have direct dependencies also in world
"""

__version__ = (0,3,0)

import os
import sys
sys.path.insert(0, '/usr/lib/gentoolkit/pym')
os.environ['PORTAGE_CALLER'] = 'repoman'

import portage
TREE = portage.db["/"]["vartree"]

import gentoolkit


def get_versions_installed(pkg):
    """
    Return a list containt versions of pkg installed (in cpv format)
    may be an empty list.
    """
    return TREE.dbapi.match(pkg)


def get_world():
    """Return a list of all packages in world"""
    _file = sys.stdin
    _list = [line.strip() for line in _file]
    return _list

def get_deps(pkg):
    """Return a list of all packages depending on pkg (directly)"""
    deps = set()
    for cpv in get_versions_installed(pkg):
        gentoolkit_pkg = gentoolkit.Package(cpv)
        rdeps = [i[2] for i in gentoolkit_pkg.get_runtime_deps() if not
                i[2].startswith('virtual/')]
        for rdep in rdeps:
            split = portage.pkgsplit(rdep)
            if split is not None:
                deps.add(split[0])
            else:
                deps.add(rdep)

        pdeps = [i[2] for i in gentoolkit_pkg.get_postmerge_deps() if not
                i[2].startswith('virtual/')]
        for pdep in pdeps:
            split = portage.pkgsplit(pdep)
            if split is not None:
                deps.add(split[0])
            else:
                deps.add(pdep)
        #print deps
    #command= '/usr/bin/equery -q -C d %s' % pkg
    #pipe = os.popen(command, 'r')
    #_list = [portage.pkgsplit(line.strip())[0] for line in pipe]
    return deps

if __name__ == '__main__':
    world = get_world()
    for pkg in world:
        deps = get_deps(pkg)
        for dep in deps:
            if (dep != pkg) and (dep in world):
                print '%(pkg)s already depends on %(dep)s' % locals()

[gentoo-user] Re: Question about difference between emerge --update world and emerge vigra

[James]

Daniel Pielmeier <daniel.pielmeier <at> googlemail.com> writes:


> > to 'clean' the world file, in addition to what you have stated above?


> [1] http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=172611

> Daniel


Hello Daniel,

What you have told me looks interesting. However, for now, I'm going
to clean up the critical systems with a more brute force approach,
as Neil has suggested. I cannot afford to wack these systems nor
have them reinstalling tons of software......

However, I am going to get workstation a non-critical workstation, 
polluted the world file and try the python scripts a few times, to 
develop an opinion or hack on it a bit.

udept seems like a good idea, it's ashame it has been orphaned. I'm 
looking for a more stable (supported) solution for the long term.
udept does not seem to offer that, unless somebody picks it up
to maintain it. Who knows maybe one of the devs is working on a
better, long term solution.

Surely many folks would benefit from a formal, systematic approach
to cleaning the world file?  I know every now and then, when a gentoo
workstation gives me fits, I just emerge and unemerge things until
it's happy (while multitasking too much). Often this leads to
a polluted world file....... because I do not follow closely to
the process details (distracted) during the repair-episode.

Thanks for the input.


James

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Question about difference between emerge --update world and emerge vigra

[Alan McKinnon]

On Thursday 25 September 2008 17:51:58 Daniel Pielmeier wrote:
> > Do you have any further advice, more detail or some more formalized
> > methodology to 'clean' the world file, in addition to what you have
> > stated above?
>
> Every entry in the world file that has a reverse dependency could be
> removed. Unfortunately there is no tool I know which can calculate
> reverse dependencies correctly. Maybe there is some functionality in
> pkgcore or paludis which I am not aware of. So others need to inform
> us about this.

The loooooong way round is to run 'emerge -pvte world' and look for things 
listed that are both highlighted in green and indented. Such packages could 
in theory be removed from world as they must be a dep of something.

Intelligence must also be applied of course - somethings are deps and you DO 
want them in world

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Question about difference between emerge --update world and emerge vigra

[Alan McKinnon]

On Thursday 25 September 2008 17:51:42 Hilco Wijbenga wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 03:27, Daniel Pielmeier
>
> <daniel.pielmeier@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > Also make sure you have a clean world file, which means if there is an
> > entry which is already needed by something else it should normally be
> > removed as this could cause problems.
>
> I can understand that if I have both package P and dependency D in
> world, and I remove P then depclean will not remove D. I assume that's
> not what you're talking about, though, as it's harmless and probably
> intended (since I listed D in world).
>
> Moreover, I would think this is quite common. You might have
> Java/Perl/Python/Ruby/* explicitely listed in world (because you write
> programs/scripts) and several packages that are either
> Java/Perl/Python/Ruby/* based or provide bindings. I *want* to be
> explicit here as I don't want Java/Perl/Python/Ruby/* removed should I
> remove those other packages.
>
> So what kind of problems are we talking about?

Most probably the "problem" that arises is when a mere dep cannot be removed 
by --depclean anymore because it is in world. It is a problem because of the 
unnecessary clutter it creates.

Also, sometimes deps come and go, and libs get split into two packages. Say 
you have libA which is a dep of some package Z. The dev sees that libA can 
benefit from USE flags in some way and this in turn benefits package Z. So 
libA gets split into libAa and libAb, both of which block the old libA. 
Package Z can install libAa or libAb or both depending on USE. If the user 
put the old libA in world (incorrectly), portage will not uninstall it to 
replace it with the new split libA. Instead it will display the blockers, 
which has to be resolved manually - and we all know how much mass hysteria 
and confusion blockers seem to cause amongst users...

This of course is the exact opposite of what you describe above

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Question about difference between emerge --update world and emerge vigra

[Paul Hartman]

On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 3:15 PM, Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thursday 25 September 2008 17:51:58 Daniel Pielmeier wrote:
>> > Do you have any further advice, more detail or some more formalized
>> > methodology to 'clean' the world file, in addition to what you have
>> > stated above?
>>
>> Every entry in the world file that has a reverse dependency could be
>> removed. Unfortunately there is no tool I know which can calculate
>> reverse dependencies correctly. Maybe there is some functionality in
>> pkgcore or paludis which I am not aware of. So others need to inform
>> us about this.
>
> The loooooong way round is to run 'emerge -pvte world' and look for things
> listed that are both highlighted in green and indented. Such packages could
> in theory be removed from world as they must be a dep of something.
>
> Intelligence must also be applied of course - somethings are deps and you DO
> want them in world

Yes, basically my philosophy is only to list in world the actual
programs I want to use. Everything else required for them will come in
automatically (assuming I also set my USE flags in package.use
properly). Some packages have optional run-time deps, say a multimedia
program that can convert files if you have ffmpeg installed, so in
those cases those optional packages will also be in world.

Learning when to use --oneshot and when not was the key to keeping
away the clutter :)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Question about difference between emerge --update world and emerge vigra

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Thu, 25 Sep 2008 15:55:10 -0500, Paul Hartman wrote:

> Yes, basically my philosophy is only to list in world the actual
> programs I want to use.

Same here, which is why I recommended editing the world file. Anything
you don't use directly can go. It's also a good way of cleaning
out those programs that you installed, thinking they were a good
idea, but never used.

> Some packages have optional run-time deps, say a multimedia
> program that can convert files if you have ffmpeg installed, so in
> those cases those optional packages will also be in world.

That shouldn't happen. Portage is supposed to control everything with USE
flags. In your example. the ebuild should run configure with either the
--enable-ffmpeg or --disable-ffmpeg option, depending on your flags.
Compile time features are to be controlled by the user, not decided for
him by the configure script. That's the Gentoo way.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

NOTE: In order to control energy costs the light at the end
of the tunnel has been shut off until further notice...

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Question about difference between emerge --update world and emerge vigra

[Alan McKinnon]

On Thursday 25 September 2008 23:43:07 Neil Bothwick wrote:
> > Some packages have optional run-time deps, say a multimedia
> > program that can convert files if you have ffmpeg installed, so in
> > those cases those optional packages will also be in world.
>
> That shouldn't happen. Portage is supposed to control everything with USE
> flags. In your example. the ebuild should run configure with either the
> --enable-ffmpeg or --disable-ffmpeg option, depending on your flags.
> Compile time features are to be controlled by the user, not decided for
> him by the configure script. That's the Gentoo way.

That would indeed be a truly wonderful thing...

If only the ./configure authors would put the damn --enable- in the script in 
the first place <grumble> <grumble>

which means you can force support for it to be present via DEPEND but not 
remove support if the dep is present and shouldn't be <mutter><mutter>

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Question about difference between emerge --update world and emerge vigra

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Thu, 25 Sep 2008 23:59:36 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:

> > That shouldn't happen.

> That would indeed be a truly wonderful thing...

Note that I used shouldn't and not doesn't :(


-- 
Neil Bothwick

He's so cool, he could get frostbite from masturbating.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Question about difference between emerge --update world and emerge vigra

[SOrCErEr]

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2008/9/25 Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com>

> On Thursday 25 September 2008 12:12:23 Vladimir Rusinov wrote:
> > Gentoo's world only contains packages you have installed manually (emerge
> > package). and without -1 option. Would does not contains packages that
> have
> > been installed as dependencies to other packages.
> > You could view /var/lib/portage/world to see what it contains.
> >
> > If you really need vigra, it is a good idea to add it to world file:
> emerge
> > --noreplace vigra
> > Howewer, I don't recommend add any dependencies which you are no using
> > directly to world. It would make --depclean useless.
>
> I think he understands that by now. His question is more like:
>
> If eix tells me that an update to vigra is available, then why does emerge
> -uD
> world not pick it up?
>

Yeah
That's the point what I want to say.

Fortunately, I can be understand it while I'm reading this thread.

Package "vigra" does not need on my system. So world doesn't contain that.
And I need to do emerge --depclean to remove packages like "vigra".

Keyworld was dependency. I could realize this If I did --depclean only one
time.

It's a good answers in this thread although question was stupid.
THANKS.



>
> sorcerer, what is your arch, and what is the outputs from 'eix -e vigra'
> and 'emerge -pv media-libs/vigra'
>
> --
> alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
>
>


-- 
SOrCErEr

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Question about difference between emerge --update world and emerge vigra

[Daniel Pielmeier]

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James schrieb am 25.09.2008 20:32:
> Surely many folks would benefit from a formal, systematic approach
> to cleaning the world file?  I know every now and then, when a gentoo
> workstation gives me fits, I just emerge and unemerge things until
> it's happy (while multitasking too much). Often this leads to
> a polluted world file....... because I do not follow closely to
> the process details (distracted) during the repair-episode.
> 

Something in addition to this topic.

I asked on IRC (#gentoo-portage) if it is possible to show the reverse
dependencies of a package with portage. Zac Medico, one of the main
portage developers told me that it is possible with depclean.

emerge -pv --depclean <atom>

So I thought of writing a little script which calls this command for
every entry in the world file. As I have only limited programming skills
I wrote something quick in perl. It should be no problem to do it with a
shell script or something else too. It simply checks the output of
depclean for strings which only occur when the package has or has no
reverse dependencies. Then it prints the package to be checked and if it
is needed in world or not. It actually does not remove anything, so it
is up to you if you want to leave a package in world or not for whatever
reason you have.

The script could probably be improved in a few ways and it is slow as
depclean takes some time. It works for current stable portage. I don't
know if it will work for portage-2.2 as the output of depclean has
changed as far as I know.

Don't rely on this script to much. Because it works for me must not mean
it does for you. I have tested some cases and I worked every time until
now. So verify the output of a manual "emerge -pv --depclean <atom>" on
the "unneeded" entry first to be sure it is really not needed.

Regards,

Daniel


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#!/usr/bin/perl
#
#
#

use strict;
use diagnostics;
use warnings;

my ($package,$status,$line) = ();
my @depclean = ();
my $vdb_path = qx(portageq vdb_path);
chomp($vdb_path);

format STDOUT_TOP =
Atom:                                            Status: (required in world)
.

format STDOUT =
@<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< @<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
$package, $status
.

print "Examining: $vdb_path/world\n\n";

open(WORLD,"<$vdb_path/world") || die("world: $!");

foreach $package (<WORLD>) {
	chomp $package;
	@depclean = qx(emerge -pv --depclean "$package");
	foreach $line ( @depclean ) {
		if ( $line =~ ">>> These are the packages that would be unmerged:" ) {
			$status = "needed";
			write;
		} elsif ( $line =~ ">>> No packages selected for removal by depclean" ) {
			$status = "unneeded";
			write;
		} else {
			$status = "Error: Something bad happened";
		}
	}
}

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Question about difference between emerge --update world and emerge vigra

[Paul Stear]

On Monday 29 September 2008, Daniel Pielmeier wrote:

> Don't rely on this script to much. Because it works for me must not
> mean it does for you. I have tested some cases and I worked every time
> until now. So verify the output of a manual "emerge -pv --depclean
> <atom>" on the "unneeded" entry first to be sure it is really not
> needed.
Hi Daniel,
I thought I would try your script but I get an error when I run it:-
Uncaught exception from user code:
        Unrecognized character \xC2 at ./WorldCleanCheck line 29.
 at ./WorldCleanCheck line 29
I do not know what \xC2 is
Any ideas how to resolve this?
Thanks for your time
Paul



-- 
This message has been sent using kmail with gentoo linux

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Question about difference between emerge --update world and emerge vigra

[Daniel Pielmeier]

2008/9/30 Paul Stear <gentoo@appjaws.plus.com>:
> Hi Daniel,
> I thought I would try your script but I get an error when I run it:-
> Uncaught exception from user code:
>        Unrecognized character \xC2 at ./WorldCleanCheck line 29.
>  at ./WorldCleanCheck line 29
> I do not know what \xC2 is
> Any ideas how to resolve this?
> Thanks for your time
> Paul

Thank you for testing my script! Maybe it needs some more work.
Can you send me your world file off-list, so I can try to reproduce
this error. I can not check it this week as I am away but next week I
will take a look at it. It looks like there is an entry in your world
file my script can not process. In line 29 from the error message the
script tries to remove the new-line after the world file entry, which
probably causes this problem.

Regards,

Daniel