From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from lists.gentoo.org ([140.105.134.102] helo=robin.gentoo.org) by nuthatch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EL00R-0003YI-4u for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 15:07:31 +0000 Received: from robin.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id j8TExFNA002024; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 14:59:15 GMT Received: from xproxy.gmail.com (xproxy.gmail.com [66.249.82.205]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id j8TEsAT8021607 for ; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 14:54:11 GMT Received: by xproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id t6so138741wxc for ; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 08:01:34 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=pclncxzfqRMVvTHPhBx7W82LSb64vlOdaQd2AAVOqDNxv7W7fziVwG63zFuAzSCKw9G6XHcFynucVmj70i+drq2Mw14+5rxL0t4CcAmrBI5xTIUt1e/R3VjUY62M4PMFGui6FWrNIFo2oadsue5MxbjNRAwgQonycTjZM6y5fNw= Received: by 10.70.132.20 with SMTP id f20mr461204wxd; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 08:01:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.11.7 with HTTP; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 08:01:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5bdc1c8b05092908014e2c7570@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 08:01:34 -0700 From: Mark Knecht To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] [Completely and totally OT] FVWM-Crystal...!!! In-Reply-To: <433BFBB0.8030903@planet.nl> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <433AF025.1090208@planet.nl> <5bdc1c8b05092814066188e561@mail.gmail.com> <433B1A9C.5050900@planet.nl> <5bdc1c8b05092815542acda9c8@mail.gmail.com> <433B2277.3090102@planet.nl> <5bdc1c8b0509281621519fdd97@mail.gmail.com> <5bdc1c8b0509290700534e3cd4@mail.gmail.com> <433BFBB0.8030903@planet.nl> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by robin.gentoo.org id j8TEsAT8021607 X-Archives-Salt: 7c2f354e-c9a3-4a28-a24a-d83281f4d98f X-Archives-Hash: 4f5ece23f7d3029c7e5d96880baa68d1 On 9/29/05, Holly Bostick wrote: > Mark Knecht schreef: > > On 9/28/05, Mark Knecht wrote: > > > >> Great. Tried it. It worked fine and didn't upset Jack which means > >> my experiment goes on. > >> > >> This is working so much better for me than Gnome on my AMD64 box. > >> I'll have to go back and try the standard Gentoo kernel instead of > >> ck-sources. > >> > >> > >> > > In the end the xruns came back so FVWM-Crystal didn't magically solve > > my problems. (unfortunately...) > > > > My quest goes on. Now running 2.6.14-rc2-mm1, looking for > > 2.6.14-rc2-mm1-rt6 > > > > Am I the only one who doesn't know what are 'xruns'? Whatever they are, > it would seem that the problem can be minimized, but not eliminated by > choice of WM, but obviously we couldn't go any further in actually > eliminating them without knowing what they are (or at least I couldn't, > since I don't actually know what you're referring to). > > Holly Holly, I'm so very sorry. Of course you would have no reason to know about xruns if you are not part of the Linux audio community. My apologies. One of the Linux 'methods', if you will, for moving audio between sound cards and applications is a server called Jack (jackd) which is supplied by emerging jack-audio-connection-kit. Jack provides for the movement of digital audio between a sound card and essentially an unlimited number of apps (really 'ports') with a known latency. It's the latency that's really important to those of us doing live recording. If I'm listening to a piano and recording my guitar then I need the two to sound like they are in time or it is virtually impossible to play a part correctly. An 'xrun', standing I think for overrun - go figure - is when something in the system has not taken or delivered digital audio at the agreed upon time. This leads to clicks and pops. If you were to look at the waveform in an oscilloscope there would be some sort of discontinuity. With my 32-bit machines I have been blessed. I have been able, for at least the last year, to run the standard Gentoo kernel at <3mS latency with no xruns. I've been writing and recording music on Gentoo and had no problems while others running on other distros have had to build specialized kernels utilizing patches from Andrew Morton and Ingo Molnar to get equivalent results. On guy in Australia didn't really beleive me so I helped him build a Gentoo box over the net. When that machien came up it worked so well, with the standard kernel, that he converted all the machines in his studio to Gentoo and no brags about how stable his environment is. I looked forward to such an experience with my new AMD64 machine. It did not come to be true. Every 64-bit kernel I've tried so far either has terrible xrun problems or will not build. This includes: gentoo-sources - xruns ck-sources - xruns kernel.org - 2.6.13.3 & 2.6.14-rc2 - xruns 2.6.14-rc2-rt6 - Ingo's patches - won't build I'm currently running 2.6.14-rc2-mm1 - with Andrew Morton's patches. I have not yet tested it but at least it built. The major change to the kernel to get better real time results is (apparently) to make pretty much everything preemptable. When Ingo's patches are added then a new preemption model shows up in make menuconfig. Unfortunately for me it won't build on 64-bit yet, at least for me. The window manager choice is just one choice those of us playing with low latency audio make. KDE has never worked well for me. Gnome has been fine for the last year until this new AMD64 experience. In the old days we used fluxbox over KDE and Gnome and got good, but not great, results. Anyway, I hope that helps explain my xrun comments. Cheers, Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list