[gentoo-user] Getting X11 to "underscan"...

[gentoo-user] Getting X11 to "underscan"...

[Jigme Datse Yli-RAsku]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1511 bytes --]

When I connect the iMac to our HDTV TV, I can set it to underscan.  The
reason that I would like to do that is because when I display at 1080p
the TV ends up dropping the edges of the image off of the screen.  This
isn't really a problem at all for TV, or movies or whatever displayed
there, but if KDE displays the standard panel on the top or bottom, only
a thin line of pixels shows where it is supposed to be (don't know about
left or right as I haven't used them).  This also ends up being an issue
in MATE.  Is there a way to get it to send a 1080p signal which is
postboxed in the sense that black bars are being added top, bottom,
left, and right?  These black bars are "outside" the interface.

Jigme Datse Yli-Rasku

-- 
Jigme Datse Yli-Rasku
jigme.datse@datsemultimedia.com (Preferred address for new messages)
250-505-6117

Jigme Datse Yli-Rasku
PO Box 270
Rossland, BC V0G 1Y0
Canada

.......................................................................
... This message should be electronically signed, and if the sender ...
... has your public key, may also be encrypted.                     ...
... If you have any questions about this, please email, or call.    ...
...                                                                 ...
... Note, unknown calls likely will go to voicemail.                ...
... Please leave a message if you get voicemail.                    ...
.......................................................................




[-- Attachment #2: OpenPGP digital signature --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 907 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] Getting X11 to "underscan"...

[Daniel Frey]

On 10/17/2016 04:41 PM, Jigme Datse Yli-RAsku wrote:
> When I connect the iMac to our HDTV TV, I can set it to underscan.  The
> reason that I would like to do that is because when I display at 1080p
> the TV ends up dropping the edges of the image off of the screen.  This
> isn't really a problem at all for TV, or movies or whatever displayed
> there, but if KDE displays the standard panel on the top or bottom, only
> a thin line of pixels shows where it is supposed to be (don't know about
> left or right as I haven't used them).  This also ends up being an issue
> in MATE.  Is there a way to get it to send a 1080p signal which is
> postboxed in the sense that black bars are being added top, bottom,
> left, and right?  These black bars are "outside" the interface.
> 
> Jigme Datse Yli-Rasku
> 

It's often far easier to set the TV to disable overscanning. Some TVs
it's an actual option in the menu; in others simply assigning the HDMI
input label as "PC" or similar will disable overscanning.

Dan

Re: [gentoo-user] Getting X11 to "underscan"...

[Jigme Datse Yli-RAsku]

So far after much digging on the TV I haven't found a way to actually get it to do what I want.  I'm not sure if it even can.  I will look when I next get access to the system (currently in use by other members of the household).  Perhaps somewhere we have a manual for it?  I really don't know. 

I agree, that it would be preferable to not have to make the computer fudge it, but if after having spent time trying to fix it on the TV itself multiple times, only to find that all options I have found, end up producing very undesirable results (such as displaying it a 4:3 aspect ratio, or a 2:1 aspect ratio).  I'll see if I can find what I need. 

I do know that if I could get the TV to change the setting for that so it doesn't end up overscanning, without doing other "weird" stuff, it would mean that I could see the full boot process, not missing bits of it off the edge of the screen.

Jigme Datse Yli-Rasku

On 2016-10-17 16:47, Daniel Frey wrote:
> On 10/17/2016 04:41 PM, Jigme Datse Yli-RAsku wrote:
> > When I connect the iMac to our HDTV TV, I can set it to underscan.  The
> > reason that I would like to do that is because when I display at 1080p
> > the TV ends up dropping the edges of the image off of the screen.  This
> > isn't really a problem at all for TV, or movies or whatever displayed
> > there, but if KDE displays the standard panel on the top or bottom, only
> > a thin line of pixels shows where it is supposed to be (don't know about
> > left or right as I haven't used them).  This also ends up being an issue
> > in MATE.  Is there a way to get it to send a 1080p signal which is
> > postboxed in the sense that black bars are being added top, bottom,
> > left, and right?  These black bars are "outside" the interface.
> >
> > Jigme Datse Yli-Rasku
> >
>
> It's often far easier to set the TV to disable overscanning. Some TVs
> it's an actual option in the menu; in others simply assigning the HDMI
> input label as "PC" or similar will disable overscanning.
>
> Dan
>

-- 
Jigme Datse Yli-Rasku
jigme.datse@datsemultimedia.com (Preferred address for new messages)
250-505-6117

Jigme Datse Yli-Rasku
PO Box 270
Rossland, BC V0G 1Y0
Canada

.......................................................................
... This message should be electronically signed, and if the sender ...
... has your public key, may also be encrypted. ...
... If you have any questions about this, please email, or call. ...
... ...
... Note, unknown calls likely will go to voicemail. ...
... Please leave a message if you get voicemail. ...
.......................................................................

Re: [gentoo-user] Getting X11 to "underscan"...

[Michael Mol]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1703 bytes --]

On Monday, October 17, 2016 07:48:29 PM Jigme Datse Yli-RAsku wrote:
> So far after much digging on the TV I haven't found a way to actually get it
> to do what I want.  I'm not sure if it even can.  I will look when I next
> get access to the system (currently in use by other members of the
> household).  Perhaps somewhere we have a manual for it?  I really don't
> know.
> 
> I agree, that it would be preferable to not have to make the computer fudge
> it, but if after having spent time trying to fix it on the TV itself
> multiple times, only to find that all options I have found, end up
> producing very undesirable results (such as displaying it a 4:3 aspect
> ratio, or a 2:1 aspect ratio).  I'll see if I can find what I need.
> 
> I do know that if I could get the TV to change the setting for that so it
> doesn't end up overscanning, without doing other "weird" stuff, it would
> mean that I could see the full boot process, not missing bits of it off the
> edge of the screen.
> 

Once upon a time, in the days of analog displays, we used modelines to 
accomplish what you're doing.

I don't think modelines work with pure-digital outputs, though. Does your TV 
have a VGA input, and does your box have a VGA output? That would be an 
effective, if not ideal, solution.

Alternately, have you tried setting your display to an unusual resolution? 
What's the output of the xrandr command? It should give you a list of 
supported resolutions refresh rates, including flags to tell you which ones are 
selected and which ones are recommended. Often, with digital TVs, there will 
be a resolution you can use that evades the TV's overscan emulation.

-- 
:wq

[-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part. --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 455 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] Getting X11 to "underscan"...

[Daniel Frey]

On 10/17/2016 07:48 PM, Jigme Datse Yli-RAsku wrote:
> So far after much digging on the TV I haven't found a way to actually get it to do what I want.  I'm not sure if it even can.  I will look when I next get access to the system (currently in use by other members of the household).  Perhaps somewhere we have a manual for it?  I really don't know. 
> 
> I agree, that it would be preferable to not have to make the computer fudge it, but if after having spent time trying to fix it on the TV itself multiple times, only to find that all options I have found, end up producing very undesirable results (such as displaying it a 4:3 aspect ratio, or a 2:1 aspect ratio).  I'll see if I can find what I need. 
> 
> I do know that if I could get the TV to change the setting for that so it doesn't end up overscanning, without doing other "weird" stuff, it would mean that I could see the full boot process, not missing bits of it off the edge of the screen.
> 
> Jigme Datse Yli-Rasku
> 
> On 2016-10-17 16:47, Daniel Frey wrote:
>> On 10/17/2016 04:41 PM, Jigme Datse Yli-RAsku wrote:
>>> When I connect the iMac to our HDTV TV, I can set it to underscan.  The
>>> reason that I would like to do that is because when I display at 1080p
>>> the TV ends up dropping the edges of the image off of the screen.  This
>>> isn't really a problem at all for TV, or movies or whatever displayed
>>> there, but if KDE displays the standard panel on the top or bottom, only
>>> a thin line of pixels shows where it is supposed to be (don't know about
>>> left or right as I haven't used them).  This also ends up being an issue
>>> in MATE.  Is there a way to get it to send a 1080p signal which is
>>> postboxed in the sense that black bars are being added top, bottom,
>>> left, and right?  These black bars are "outside" the interface.
>>>
>>> Jigme Datse Yli-Rasku
>>>
>>
>> It's often far easier to set the TV to disable overscanning. Some TVs
>> it's an actual option in the menu; in others simply assigning the HDMI
>> input label as "PC" or similar will disable overscanning.
>>
>> Dan
>>
> 

I have three different manufacturers and each one has it, but on mine it
wasn't marked in the manual. Usually you just have to edit the input
labels. On my Samsung (I just looked), going to Settings->Input->Edit
Name and choosing DVI-PC as the name for HDMI1 disables overscanning.
The other TVs where similar (LG and Insignia.) You may need to set the
label to something different if the manufacturer of your TV is different.

Dan

[gentoo-user] Re: Getting X11 to "underscan"...

[Grant Edwards]

On 2016-10-18, Daniel Frey <djqfrey@gmail.com> wrote:

> I have three different manufacturers and each one has it, but on mine it
> wasn't marked in the manual.

Not all TVs can disable overscan.  The last time was shopping, many of
the Sony Bravias couldn't (that was a few years ago).  On some TVs
I've seen, in order to disable overscan the signal resolution has to
match the panel resolution exactly...

-- 
Grant

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Getting X11 to "underscan"...

[Michael Mol]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 593 bytes --]

On Tuesday, October 18, 2016 03:57:56 PM Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2016-10-18, Daniel Frey <djqfrey@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I have three different manufacturers and each one has it, but on mine it
> > wasn't marked in the manual.
> 
> Not all TVs can disable overscan.  The last time was shopping, many of
> the Sony Bravias couldn't (that was a few years ago).  On some TVs
> I've seen, in order to disable overscan the signal resolution has to
> match the panel resolution exactly...

That's rather what I'm accustomed to seeing, hence my request for the xrandr 
output.

-- 
:wq

[-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part. --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 455 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Getting X11 to "underscan"...

[Daniel Frey]

On 10/18/2016 08:57 AM, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2016-10-18, Daniel Frey <djqfrey@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> I have three different manufacturers and each one has it, but on mine it
>> wasn't marked in the manual.
> 
> Not all TVs can disable overscan.  The last time was shopping, many of
> the Sony Bravias couldn't (that was a few years ago).  On some TVs
> I've seen, in order to disable overscan the signal resolution has to
> match the panel resolution exactly...
> 

Yeah, I understand about the Sony TVs. A friend bought one in 2012/2013
and we even emailed Sony and their reply was it can't be done.

Until I found an option under Setup called Screen or Screen Display, and
set it to Full Pixel. That disabled the overscan.

Again, not documented, but it was there. And it's never labeled as
Overscan[ning] which would be the intuitive way to label it.

With my other TVs none of them had it in the manuals, I found them by
trying all the settings on the TV.

Another option would be for the OP to post make/model of TV, maybe
there's a non-obvious way to change it on his TV - you just never know.

Dan

Re: [gentoo-user] Getting X11 to "underscan"...

[Jigme Datse Yli-RAsku]

[-- Attachment #1.1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3082 bytes --]

The output of xrandr is attached (not sure if that works or not).  Every
single resolution fails to work.  As I drop down to about 640x480 it
*almost* displays enough to be workable, but at that resolution on a
41.6" display is really not going to work.  There were about 4
resolutions (with the KDE Hardware settings) which actually worked.

No, there is no VGA input on the TV.  The video card is already using
VGA, and I don't believe that monitor actually has any other alternative
anyway.  Thank you for your help.

On 2016-10-18 05:20, Michael Mol wrote:
> On Monday, October 17, 2016 07:48:29 PM Jigme Datse Yli-RAsku wrote:
>> So far after much digging on the TV I haven't found a way to actually get it
>> to do what I want.  I'm not sure if it even can.  I will look when I next
>> get access to the system (currently in use by other members of the
>> household).  Perhaps somewhere we have a manual for it?  I really don't
>> know.
>>
>> I agree, that it would be preferable to not have to make the computer fudge
>> it, but if after having spent time trying to fix it on the TV itself
>> multiple times, only to find that all options I have found, end up
>> producing very undesirable results (such as displaying it a 4:3 aspect
>> ratio, or a 2:1 aspect ratio).  I'll see if I can find what I need.
>>
>> I do know that if I could get the TV to change the setting for that so it
>> doesn't end up overscanning, without doing other "weird" stuff, it would
>> mean that I could see the full boot process, not missing bits of it off the
>> edge of the screen.
>>
> 
> Once upon a time, in the days of analog displays, we used modelines to 
> accomplish what you're doing.
> 
> I don't think modelines work with pure-digital outputs, though. Does your TV 
> have a VGA input, and does your box have a VGA output? That would be an 
> effective, if not ideal, solution.
> 
> Alternately, have you tried setting your display to an unusual resolution? 
> What's the output of the xrandr command? It should give you a list of 
> supported resolutions refresh rates, including flags to tell you which ones are 
> selected and which ones are recommended. Often, with digital TVs, there will 
> be a resolution you can use that evades the TV's overscan emulation.
> 

-- 
Jigme Datse Yli-Rasku
jigme.datse@datsemultimedia.com (Preferred address for new messages)
250-505-6117

Jigme Datse Yli-Rasku
PO Box 270
Rossland, BC V0G 1Y0
Canada

.......................................................................
... This message should be electronically signed, and if the sender ...
... has your public key, may also be encrypted.                     ...
... If you have any questions about this, please email, or call.    ...
...                                                                 ...
... Note, unknown calls likely will go to voicemail.                ...
... Please leave a message if you get voicemail.                    ...
.......................................................................



[-- Attachment #1.1.2: xrandr.txt --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 1664 bytes --]

Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 3200 x 1080, maximum 8192 x 8192
DVI-I-1 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)
HDMI-1 connected primary 1920x1080+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 698mm x 392mm
   1920x1080     60.00*+  59.94    24.00    23.98  
   1920x1080i    60.00    59.94  
   1400x1050     59.98  
   1280x1024     60.02  
   1280x960      60.00  
   1280x720      60.00    59.94  
   1024x768      60.04    60.00  
   960x720       60.00  
   1440x480i     59.94  
   928x696       60.05  
   896x672       60.01  
   800x600       60.00    60.32    56.25  
   700x525       59.98  
   720x480       60.00    59.94  
   640x512       60.02  
   640x480       60.00    60.00    59.94  
   512x384       60.00  
   400x300       60.32    56.34  
   320x240       60.05  
VGA-1 connected 1280x1024+1920+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 338mm x 270mm
   1280x1024     60.02*+  75.02  
   1280x960      60.00  
   1152x864      75.00  
   1024x768      60.04    75.08    75.03    70.07    60.00  
   960x720       60.00  
   928x696       75.00    60.05  
   896x672       75.05    60.01  
   832x624       74.55  
   800x600       75.00    70.00    65.00    60.00    72.19    75.00    60.32    56.25  
   700x525       74.76    59.98  
   640x512       75.02    60.02  
   640x480       60.00    75.00    72.81    72.81    75.00    66.67    60.00    59.94  
   720x400       70.08  
   576x432       75.00  
   512x384       75.03    70.07    60.00  
   416x312       74.66  
   400x300       72.19    75.12    60.32    56.34  
   320x240       72.81    75.00    60.05  

[-- Attachment #2: OpenPGP digital signature --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 907 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Getting X11 to "underscan"...

[Jigme Datse Yli-RAsku]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2070 bytes --]

In terms of the make and model, it is a Panasonic Viera TC-P42S30.

On 2016-10-18 12:32, Daniel Frey wrote:
> On 10/18/2016 08:57 AM, Grant Edwards wrote:
>> On 2016-10-18, Daniel Frey <djqfrey@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I have three different manufacturers and each one has it, but on mine it
>>> wasn't marked in the manual.
>>
>> Not all TVs can disable overscan.  The last time was shopping, many of
>> the Sony Bravias couldn't (that was a few years ago).  On some TVs
>> I've seen, in order to disable overscan the signal resolution has to
>> match the panel resolution exactly...
>>
> 
> Yeah, I understand about the Sony TVs. A friend bought one in 2012/2013
> and we even emailed Sony and their reply was it can't be done.
> 
> Until I found an option under Setup called Screen or Screen Display, and
> set it to Full Pixel. That disabled the overscan.
> 
> Again, not documented, but it was there. And it's never labeled as
> Overscan[ning] which would be the intuitive way to label it.
> 
> With my other TVs none of them had it in the manuals, I found them by
> trying all the settings on the TV.
> 
> Another option would be for the OP to post make/model of TV, maybe
> there's a non-obvious way to change it on his TV - you just never know.
> 
> Dan
> 

-- 
Jigme Datse Yli-Rasku
jigme.datse@datsemultimedia.com (Preferred address for new messages)
250-505-6117

Jigme Datse Yli-Rasku
PO Box 270
Rossland, BC V0G 1Y0
Canada

.......................................................................
... This message should be electronically signed, and if the sender ...
... has your public key, may also be encrypted.                     ...
... If you have any questions about this, please email, or call.    ...
...                                                                 ...
... Note, unknown calls likely will go to voicemail.                ...
... Please leave a message if you get voicemail.                    ...
.......................................................................




[-- Attachment #2: OpenPGP digital signature --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 907 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] Getting X11 to "underscan"...

[Stroller]

> On 19 Oct 2016, at 05:38, Jigme Datse Yli-RAsku <jigme.datse@datsemultimedia.com> wrote:
> 
> In terms of the make and model, it is a Panasonic Viera TC-P42S30.

"On a Panasonic Viera TC-P42S30 the option is Menu/Picture/Aspect Adjustments/Screen Format = FULL and HD Size = 2"

http://www.komeil.com/blog/fix-cropped-picture-cut-off-screen-tv-hdmi-dvi

https://www.reddit.com/r/techsupport/comments/qx7zm/problem_connecting_panasonic_viera_tcp42s30/

Stroller.

[gentoo-user] Re: Getting X11 to "underscan"...

[Grant Edwards]

On 2016-10-18, Daniel Frey <djqfrey@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/18/2016 08:57 AM, Grant Edwards wrote:
>> On 2016-10-18, Daniel Frey <djqfrey@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I have three different manufacturers and each one has it, but on mine it
>>> wasn't marked in the manual.
>> 
>> Not all TVs can disable overscan.  The last time was shopping, many of
>> the Sony Bravias couldn't (that was a few years ago).  On some TVs
>> I've seen, in order to disable overscan the signal resolution has to
>> match the panel resolution exactly...
>> 
>
> Yeah, I understand about the Sony TVs. A friend bought one in 2012/2013
> and we even emailed Sony and their reply was it can't be done.
>
> Until I found an option under Setup called Screen or Screen Display, and
> set it to Full Pixel. That disabled the overscan.

Several other brands also have some odd, trademarked, phrase for the
"disable overscan" feature, so keep an eye out for display modes with
odd names invented by a marketting person who never quite understood
what that mode actually does.

If you ask about your model in some of the home-theater forums,
somebody usually knows.  But, you've got to wade through those awful
web-UI based "forums"...

-- 
Grant

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Getting X11 to "underscan"...

[Jigme Datse Yli-RAsku]

Thank you everyone.  It now seems to be working.  Not sure if the setting is a per input setting or not, but the main issue was the one input from the computer. 

On 2016-10-19 12:11, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2016-10-18, Daniel Frey <djqfrey@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 10/18/2016 08:57 AM, Grant Edwards wrote:
> >> On 2016-10-18, Daniel Frey <djqfrey@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I have three different manufacturers and each one has it, but on mine it
> >>> wasn't marked in the manual.
> >>
> >> Not all TVs can disable overscan.  The last time was shopping, many of
> >> the Sony Bravias couldn't (that was a few years ago).  On some TVs
> >> I've seen, in order to disable overscan the signal resolution has to
> >> match the panel resolution exactly...
> >>
> >
> > Yeah, I understand about the Sony TVs. A friend bought one in 2012/2013
> > and we even emailed Sony and their reply was it can't be done.
> >
> > Until I found an option under Setup called Screen or Screen Display, and
> > set it to Full Pixel. That disabled the overscan.
>
> Several other brands also have some odd, trademarked, phrase for the
> "disable overscan" feature, so keep an eye out for display modes with
> odd names invented by a marketting person who never quite understood
> what that mode actually does.
>
> If you ask about your model in some of the home-theater forums,
> somebody usually knows.  But, you've got to wade through those awful
> web-UI based "forums"...
>

-- 
Jigme Datse Yli-Rasku
jigme.datse@datsemultimedia.com (Preferred address for new messages)
250-505-6117

Jigme Datse Yli-Rasku
PO Box 270
Rossland, BC V0G 1Y0
Canada

.......................................................................
... This message should be electronically signed, and if the sender ...
... has your public key, may also be encrypted. ...
... If you have any questions about this, please email, or call. ...
... ...
... Note, unknown calls likely will go to voicemail. ...
... Please leave a message if you get voicemail. ...
.......................................................................