From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2444F139085 for ; Wed, 21 Dec 2016 13:37:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4AE012340B0; Wed, 21 Dec 2016 13:37:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mtaout005-public.msg.strl.va.charter.net (mtaout005-public.msg.strl.va.charter.net [68.114.190.30]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D63E821C08A for ; Wed, 21 Dec 2016 13:37:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from impout002 ([68.114.189.17]) by mtaout005.msg.strl.va.charter.net (InterMail vM.9.00.023.01 201-2473-194) with ESMTP id <20161221133723.ZSMT7356.mtaout005.msg.strl.va.charter.net@impout002> for ; Wed, 21 Dec 2016 07:37:23 -0600 Received: from [97.93.207.59] ([97.93.207.59]) by impout002 with charter.net id NddP1u0071HRatM01ddPaQ; Wed, 21 Dec 2016 07:37:23 -0600 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.1 cv=UfjfSciN c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=IGcskCZkzpqa3p7m3Cr5wA==:117 a=IGcskCZkzpqa3p7m3Cr5wA==:17 a=L9H7d07YOLsA:10 a=9cW_t1CCXrUA:10 a=s5jvgZ67dGcA:10 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=YX6e88VHnQQe3QJ_vkQA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 X-Auth-id: Y29yYmluYmlyZEBjaGFydGVyLm5ldA== Message-ID: <585A8558.6030207@charter.net> Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2016 07:36:24 -0600 From: Corbin Bird User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:25.9) Gecko/20161026 FossaMail/25.2.4 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No References: <20161015182743.GB4541@solfire> <31e5a0f5-ffc3-0b6f-3bb4-1685d1efe876@andrejro.de> <1539590.2abgqJ6fBz@thetick> <20161221120958.0382681075B0@turkos.aspodata.se> In-Reply-To: <20161221120958.0382681075B0@turkos.aspodata.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Archives-Salt: 9905c7dc-1543-45fa-9bad-5798e905a267 X-Archives-Hash: f7f3b4e5ab5c8c73faa6ac7adddfda64 On 12/21/2016 06:09 AM, karl@aspodata.se wrote: > Regarding the controversy about systemd etc. > > The problem isn't that systemd is available, or that there exist a > company named Red Had or that there exist a developer named Lennart > Poettering that develops programs. > > The problem is that an ever increasing amount of programs list systemd > or some of its libs as a depenancy. So it is getting harder and harder > to opt out. > > The situation is similar to the one with udev and variants. Some > programs list udev as a requirement even though there is no requirment > on technical grounds. I.e. X, I can run X perfectly without udev, I > just have to make my own xorg.conf, or I might want to run X with udev > since then it handles multiple keyboards with different layouts > automatically. It's like when buying a car, some prefer automats, some > stick shift. There are pro and cons for both cases. > > Sometimes its useful and sometimes its not needed, why should I be more > or less forced to use it in every case ? No one is expecting me to run a > webserver on every systems, why then the heated arguments about this ? > It should be my own decision what to install, not someone elses. > > Regards, > /Karl Hammar > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Aspö Data > Lilla Aspö 148 > S-742 94 Östhammar > Sweden > +46 173 140 57 > > > The other thing not really mentioned about systemd .... the problems of "fixing" systems with it. Its a "one-size-fits-all" solution, just like Windows. If you don't have a "standard" desktop / notebook ... you are S.O.L. The old manual method of configuration is extremely flexible, you can get the "who-knows-where-it-came-from-component" to work. The new "automagic" of udev / systemd .... forget it. At least with script based init systems I could change the run level to fix Xorg problems. The systemd configuration files are designed for programmers, not technicians. And their is a HUGE difference between "programmers" and "technicians". Different aptitudes, different skills. The old .conf files, technicians can easily handle. Requiring everyone to be a programmer is a really bad idea. You really don't want to see the "quality" of the code a technician would produce :(