[gentoo-user] Anyone here use Proton email service?

[gentoo-user] Anyone here use Proton email service?

[Dale]

Howdy,

As some know from my posts, I been wanting to switch email providers.  I
found Proton Mail and notice there is a app available for it in the
Gentoo tree.  It appears to have Gentoo support unlike most.  Does
anyone here use Proton email service?  It may be more secure than I need
but it sounds like I can use it like as a replacement for Gmail.  It
sounds like it is encrypted between me and Proton then if needed,
decrypted from there.  Of course, it seems I can send encrypted email,
encrypted by Seamonkey and it's encryption, as well.  That would remain
encrypted until it reaches the person I'm sending to just like it does
with Gmail. 

I'm just curious if anyone here uses it.  Given it is in the tree, I
figure someone does.  Trying to see if this is what I need or not. 

Thanks.

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone here use Proton email service?

[mad.scientist.at.large]

I'm using it, for over 5 years now.  Generally very happy, great up time and fast bug squashing.

The only real issue I have is it's become slower at log on (fine after that other than logging out) since they started offering calendars and other gadgets.  Slightly annoyed that their proxy service requires system-d unless you want to run everything through the router/firewall.  i.e. if you don't want all of your' traffic sent over a proxy.  

I made the mistake of trying to buy something on new egg using Tor, about 8 years ago.  Even with a different credit card they are still a bit hinky.  Glad they blocked it, but it would be nice not to have to go to ups to pick up my geek gear.




Oct 1, 2024, 22:59 by rdalek1967@gmail.com:

> Howdy,
>
> As some know from my posts, I been wanting to switch email providers.  I
> found Proton Mail and notice there is a app available for it in the
> Gentoo tree.  It appears to have Gentoo support unlike most.  Does
> anyone here use Proton email service?  It may be more secure than I need
> but it sounds like I can use it like as a replacement for Gmail.  It
> sounds like it is encrypted between me and Proton then if needed,
> decrypted from there.  Of course, it seems I can send encrypted email,
> encrypted by Seamonkey and it's encryption, as well.  That would remain
> encrypted until it reaches the person I'm sending to just like it does
> with Gmail. 
>
> I'm just curious if anyone here uses it.  Given it is in the tree, I
> figure someone does.  Trying to see if this is what I need or not. 
>
> Thanks.
>
> Dale
>
> :-)  :-) 
>

Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone here use Proton email service?

[Arthur R.]

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On 10/2/24 11:59, Dale wrote:
> Howdy,
>
> As some know from my posts, I been wanting to switch email providers.  I
> found Proton Mail and notice there is a app available for it in the
> Gentoo tree.  It appears to have Gentoo support unlike most.  Does
> anyone here use Proton email service?  It may be more secure than I need
> but it sounds like I can use it like as a replacement for Gmail.  It
> sounds like it is encrypted between me and Proton then if needed,
> decrypted from there.  Of course, it seems I can send encrypted email,
> encrypted by Seamonkey and it's encryption, as well.  That would remain
> encrypted until it reaches the person I'm sending to just like it does
> with Gmail.
>
> I'm just curious if anyone here uses it.  Given it is in the tree, I
> figure someone does.  Trying to see if this is what I need or not.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Dale
>
> :-)  :-)
There's not pretty much difference with something like Gmail. If you 
want to do something illegal - your /encrypted/ correspondence will 
suddenly be decrypted for those who are interested. If you want true 
security and privacy - just selfhost your own email inbox. It's worth no 
more than 1 euro and one or two hours, maybe more, if you not very 
tech-savyy.

-- 
Arthur

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Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone here use Proton email service?

[mad.scientist.at.large]

Proton does keep other people from reading your' email.  I've been stalked by google based on my interest/emails after they bought the provider I was using.  

But yes, if your' scenario involves any thing the spooks might be interested in, you can bet the spy agencies can crack it, at least the large ones.  It does provide some security for janky communication, but yeah, for major felonies it won't help.  But you've probably created a lot of evidence in that case anyway.  

If you're worried about NSA, you really, really don't want to do whatever you thought you wanted to do.  NSA had the first transatlantic phone cable tapped, under water within 24 hours.  When the telcos started using satellites they set up an operation in Australia to intercept it.  If you've ever made an international call it's best to assume some one recorded or monitored it.

--"Fascism begins the moment a ruling class, fearing the people may use their political democracy to gain economic democracy, begins to destroy political democracy in order to retain its power of exploitation and special privilege." Tommy Douglas




Oct 2, 2024, 03:27 by lain@laincorp.tech:

>
>
>
> On 10/2/24 11:59, Dale wrote:
>
>> Howdy,As some know from my posts, I been wanting to switch email providers.  Ifound Proton Mail and notice there is a app available for it in theGentoo tree.  It appears to have Gentoo support unlike most.  Doesanyone here use Proton email service?  It may be more secure than I needbut it sounds like I can use it like as a replacement for Gmail.  Itsounds like it is encrypted between me and Proton then if needed,decrypted from there.  Of course, it seems I can send encrypted email,encrypted by Seamonkey and it's encryption, as well.  That would remainencrypted until it reaches the person I'm sending to just like it doeswith Gmail. I'm just curious if anyone here uses it.  Given it is in the tree, Ifigure someone does.  Trying to see if this is what I need or not. Thanks.Dale:-)  :-) 
>>
> There's not pretty much difference with something like Gmail. If you want to do something illegal - your > encrypted>  correspondence will suddenly be decrypted for those who are interested. If you want true security and privacy - just selfhost your own email inbox. It's worth no more than 1 euro and one or two hours, maybe more, if you not very tech-savyy.
> -- Arthur
>

Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone here use Proton email service?

[Dale]

mad.scientist.at.large@tutanota.com wrote:
> Proton does keep other people from reading your' email.  I've been stalked by google based on my interest/emails after they bought the provider I was using.  
>
> But yes, if your' scenario involves any thing the spooks might be interested in, you can bet the spy agencies can crack it, at least the large ones.  It does provide some security for janky communication, but yeah, for major felonies it won't help.  But you've probably created a lot of evidence in that case anyway.  
>
> If you're worried about NSA, you really, really don't want to do whatever you thought you wanted to do.  NSA had the first transatlantic phone cable tapped, under water within 24 hours.  When the telcos started using satellites they set up an operation in Australia to intercept it.  If you've ever made an international call it's best to assume some one recorded or monitored it.
>
> --"Fascism begins the moment a ruling class, fearing the people may use their political democracy to gain economic democracy, begins to destroy political democracy in order to retain its power of exploitation and special privilege." Tommy Douglas
>
>
>
>
> Oct 2, 2024, 03:27 by lain@laincorp.tech:
>
>>
>>
>> On 10/2/24 11:59, Dale wrote:
>>
>>> Howdy,As some know from my posts, I been wanting to switch email providers.  Ifound Proton Mail and notice there is a app available for it in theGentoo tree.  It appears to have Gentoo support unlike most.  Doesanyone here use Proton email service?  It may be more secure than I needbut it sounds like I can use it like as a replacement for Gmail.  Itsounds like it is encrypted between me and Proton then if needed,decrypted from there.  Of course, it seems I can send encrypted email,encrypted by Seamonkey and it's encryption, as well.  That would remainencrypted until it reaches the person I'm sending to just like it doeswith Gmail. I'm just curious if anyone here uses it.  Given it is in the tree, Ifigure someone does.  Trying to see if this is what I need or not. Thanks.Dale:-)  :-) 
>>>
>> There's not pretty much difference with something like Gmail. If you want to do something illegal - your > encrypted>  correspondence will suddenly be decrypted for those who are interested. If you want true security and privacy - just selfhost your own email inbox. It's worth no more than 1 euro and one or two hours, maybe more, if you not very tech-savyy.
>> -- Arthur
>>
>>

I just want to switch from Gmail.  I don't really need encryption
stuff.  I wouldn't mind doing my own but I have no clue where to even
start on that. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone here use Proton email service?

[Michael]

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On Wednesday 2 October 2024 14:10:39 BST Dale wrote:

> I just want to switch from Gmail.  I don't really need encryption
> stuff.  I wouldn't mind doing my own but I have no clue where to even
> start on that. 
> 
> Dale
> 
> :-)  :-) 

Some links for your consideration:

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Simple_mail_server_with_webmail

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Complete_Virtual_Mail_Server

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Category:Mail_Servers

https://forwardemail.net/en/blog/open-source/gentoo-linux-email-server

There's also mailinabox and similar on premises binary solutions:

https://github.com/mail-in-a-box/mailinabox

HOWEVER, setting up the mail server itself is the easy part.  Getting it 
working along with reverse DNS, Let's Encrypt TLS certificates, SPF/DKIM/
DMARC/DNSSEC-DANE without your domain being blacklisted at the drop of a hat, 
while you're fighting permanently against spam and intruders can soon become a 
full time occupation.  All this assumes your domestic ISP allows their 
domestic customers to run mail servers - many don't/won't.

I don't mean to discourage you, it is an interesting project to get into and 
you'll have the benefit of controlling your own server, your own data, without 
paying some Internet provider with either your data privacy, or your money.  
With low power NUC devices or a Raspberry Pi, you could run your own server at 
less cost than most hosting companies will charge you, even if you allow for 
some hardware redundancy, backups and hot/cold standby.

Alternatively, if you can find a locally owned and run ISP with motivated 
staff, it may be a good half-way compromise between Big-Tech and on-premises 
mail hosting.  Note though, a lot of smaller shops are just a front-end 
marketing effort, with outsourced back end operations run by the Big Tech.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone here use Proton email service?

[Dale]

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Michael wrote:
> On Wednesday 2 October 2024 14:10:39 BST Dale wrote:
>
>> I just want to switch from Gmail.  I don't really need encryption
>> stuff.  I wouldn't mind doing my own but I have no clue where to even
>> start on that. 
>>
>> Dale
>>
>> :-)  :-) 
> Some links for your consideration:
>
> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Simple_mail_server_with_webmail
>
> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Complete_Virtual_Mail_Server
>
> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Category:Mail_Servers
>
> https://forwardemail.net/en/blog/open-source/gentoo-linux-email-server
>
> There's also mailinabox and similar on premises binary solutions:
>
> https://github.com/mail-in-a-box/mailinabox
>
> HOWEVER, setting up the mail server itself is the easy part.  Getting it 
> working along with reverse DNS, Let's Encrypt TLS certificates, SPF/DKIM/
> DMARC/DNSSEC-DANE without your domain being blacklisted at the drop of a hat, 
> while you're fighting permanently against spam and intruders can soon become a 
> full time occupation.  All this assumes your domestic ISP allows their 
> domestic customers to run mail servers - many don't/won't.
>
> I don't mean to discourage you, it is an interesting project to get into and 
> you'll have the benefit of controlling your own server, your own data, without 
> paying some Internet provider with either your data privacy, or your money.  
> With low power NUC devices or a Raspberry Pi, you could run your own server at 
> less cost than most hosting companies will charge you, even if you allow for 
> some hardware redundancy, backups and hot/cold standby.
>
> Alternatively, if you can find a locally owned and run ISP with motivated 
> staff, it may be a good half-way compromise between Big-Tech and on-premises 
> mail hosting.  Note though, a lot of smaller shops are just a front-end 
> marketing effort, with outsourced back end operations run by the Big Tech.


Well, I'm not really wanting to do my own email server.  In a way, I'd
like to have it so that everything is fetched, stored on my system and
then I can use any email software I want, Seamonkey, Thunderbird, Mutt,
Kmail or whatever, without losing a single email.  Thing is, even that
sounds like more than I care to chew on.  If someone would share
configs, editing private info of course, and I could just drop those in
and edit with my private info, I might consider it.  Thing is, I'm
nervous about doing even that.  Be my luck, I'd screw up something and
delete every email I've ever got.  :/   It would be nice tho to have a
program fetch my emails and then I can switch email software anytime
without losing anything at all. 

What I'm looking for is like a paid version of Gmail or Yahoo but is
private.  They don't snoop, even for internal purposes like ads.  I'd
also like it to be in a country that tells certain other snoopers to go
pound sand.  From my understanding, some countries won't share info no
matter what.  I think Proton is one of those.  Since everything is
encrypted, even if they did share it, it's encrypted.  I think LastPass
and Bitwarden are set up the same way.  They can't access a users
passwords because it is encrypted before they get it.  Even if they get
some legal order to share, it won't do them any good, unless someone set
a stupid password that can be easily guessed. 

It sounds like Proton is encrypted end to end.  I don't *really* need
that much security, my biggest amount of emails is mostly this mailing
list which is public anyway.  Still, it is based in a country that has
serious privacy laws and they can't read it even if they wanted too. 
It's also not very expensive.  It's a little bit of overkill for what I
need but . . . .  I also noticed they have a VPN service.  I just
renewed my Surfshark a couple weeks ago for another two years.  Once
that is up tho, I could switch my VPN to them and have one place doing
VPN and email.  Then you add in the software is in the Gentoo tree and
ready to install, dang, this just sounds good. 

I'm open to ideas.  There may be something better than Proton.  Still,
it sounds good.  Price isn't bad either.  I think I could even back up
my cell phone to it as well with a paid plan.  I might even be able to
set it up without messing up something.  ROFL 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

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Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone here use Proton email service?

[Wol]

On 02/10/2024 19:47, Dale wrote:
> Well, I'm not really wanting to do my own email server.  In a way, I'd 
> like to have it so that everything is fetched, stored on my system and 
> then I can use any email software I want, Seamonkey, Thunderbird, Mutt, 
> Kmail or whatever, without losing a single email.  Thing is, even that 
> sounds like more than I care to chew on.  If someone would share 
> configs, editing private info of course, and I could just drop those in 
> and edit with my private info, I might consider it.  Thing is, I'm 
> nervous about doing even that.  Be my luck, I'd screw up something and 
> delete every email I've ever got.  :/   It would be nice tho to have a 
> program fetch my emails and then I can switch email software anytime 
> without losing anything at all.

This is my setup.

I think I've talked about this before, but just emerge and set up dovecot.

Make sure you set everything up in the local config file - look at the 
global file that comes with dovecot, and at the end you'll see a pointer 
to a non-existent local file. Set that up, and then make sure your email 
client can see it. Move a couple of emails across and make sure they're 
safe in dovecot.

Then you just set up a rule on your internet provider's inbox, that 
moves emails across to dovecot, and everything is local on your system. 
Obviously, they'll stay on the internet provider's setup until they 
expire, but they're on your system, they can be backed up, and they'll 
not be on the internet to be mined or broken into or whatever for long.

Cheers,
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone here use Proton email service?

[Dale]

Wol wrote:
> On 02/10/2024 19:47, Dale wrote:
>> Well, I'm not really wanting to do my own email server.  In a way,
>> I'd like to have it so that everything is fetched, stored on my
>> system and then I can use any email software I want, Seamonkey,
>> Thunderbird, Mutt, Kmail or whatever, without losing a single email. 
>> Thing is, even that sounds like more than I care to chew on.  If
>> someone would share configs, editing private info of course, and I
>> could just drop those in and edit with my private info, I might
>> consider it.  Thing is, I'm nervous about doing even that.  Be my
>> luck, I'd screw up something and delete every email I've ever got. 
>> :/   It would be nice tho to have a program fetch my emails and then
>> I can switch email software anytime without losing anything at all.
>
> This is my setup.
>
> I think I've talked about this before, but just emerge and set up
> dovecot.
>
> Make sure you set everything up in the local config file - look at the
> global file that comes with dovecot, and at the end you'll see a
> pointer to a non-existent local file. Set that up, and then make sure
> your email client can see it. Move a couple of emails across and make
> sure they're safe in dovecot.
>
> Then you just set up a rule on your internet provider's inbox, that
> moves emails across to dovecot, and everything is local on your
> system. Obviously, they'll stay on the internet provider's setup until
> they expire, but they're on your system, they can be backed up, and
> they'll not be on the internet to be mined or broken into or whatever
> for long.
>
> Cheers,
> Wol
>
>


I think we tried this and I couldn't get it to work and gave up on it. 
It's been a while back tho.  From my understanding, it is supposed to be
simple but simple doesn't always mean I can do it.  LOL  Email providers
always changing things doesn't help either. 

Would this also work if I moved to Proton or something similar? 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone here use Proton email service?

[Michael]

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On Thursday 3 October 2024 05:30:58 BST Dale wrote:
> Wol wrote:
> > On 02/10/2024 19:47, Dale wrote:
> >> Well, I'm not really wanting to do my own email server.  In a way,
> >> I'd like to have it so that everything is fetched, stored on my
> >> system and then I can use any email software I want, Seamonkey,
> >> Thunderbird, Mutt, Kmail or whatever, without losing a single email. 
> >> Thing is, even that sounds like more than I care to chew on.  If
> >> someone would share configs, editing private info of course, and I
> >> could just drop those in and edit with my private info, I might
> >> consider it.  Thing is, I'm nervous about doing even that.  Be my
> >> luck, I'd screw up something and delete every email I've ever got. 
> >> 
> >> :/   It would be nice tho to have a program fetch my emails and then
> >> 
> >> I can switch email software anytime without losing anything at all.
> > 
> > This is my setup.
> > 
> > I think I've talked about this before, but just emerge and set up
> > dovecot.
> > 
> > Make sure you set everything up in the local config file - look at the
> > global file that comes with dovecot, and at the end you'll see a
> > pointer to a non-existent local file. Set that up, and then make sure
> > your email client can see it. Move a couple of emails across and make
> > sure they're safe in dovecot.
> > 
> > Then you just set up a rule on your internet provider's inbox, that
> > moves emails across to dovecot, and everything is local on your
> > system. Obviously, they'll stay on the internet provider's setup until
> > they expire, but they're on your system, they can be backed up, and
> > they'll not be on the internet to be mined or broken into or whatever
> > for long.
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > Wol
> 
> I think we tried this and I couldn't get it to work and gave up on it. 
> It's been a while back tho.  From my understanding, it is supposed to be
> simple but simple doesn't always mean I can do it.  LOL  Email providers
> always changing things doesn't help either. 
> 
> Would this also work if I moved to Proton or something similar? 
> 
> Dale
> 
> :-)  :-) 

Do you need to have a local email storage *in addition* to the desktop email 
client downloading and storing your messages, if you are going to pay for a 
service provider to do the same thing for you?  If yes, then dovecot is a good 
option - there's a page on the wiki with configuration details.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone here use Proton email service?

[Dale]

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Michael wrote:
> On Thursday 3 October 2024 05:30:58 BST Dale wrote:
>> Wol wrote:
>>> On 02/10/2024 19:47, Dale wrote:
>>>> Well, I'm not really wanting to do my own email server.  In a way,
>>>> I'd like to have it so that everything is fetched, stored on my
>>>> system and then I can use any email software I want, Seamonkey,
>>>> Thunderbird, Mutt, Kmail or whatever, without losing a single email. 
>>>> Thing is, even that sounds like more than I care to chew on.  If
>>>> someone would share configs, editing private info of course, and I
>>>> could just drop those in and edit with my private info, I might
>>>> consider it.  Thing is, I'm nervous about doing even that.  Be my
>>>> luck, I'd screw up something and delete every email I've ever got. 
>>>>
>>>> :/   It would be nice tho to have a program fetch my emails and then
>>>>
>>>> I can switch email software anytime without losing anything at all.
>>> This is my setup.
>>>
>>> I think I've talked about this before, but just emerge and set up
>>> dovecot.
>>>
>>> Make sure you set everything up in the local config file - look at the
>>> global file that comes with dovecot, and at the end you'll see a
>>> pointer to a non-existent local file. Set that up, and then make sure
>>> your email client can see it. Move a couple of emails across and make
>>> sure they're safe in dovecot.
>>>
>>> Then you just set up a rule on your internet provider's inbox, that
>>> moves emails across to dovecot, and everything is local on your
>>> system. Obviously, they'll stay on the internet provider's setup until
>>> they expire, but they're on your system, they can be backed up, and
>>> they'll not be on the internet to be mined or broken into or whatever
>>> for long.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Wol
>> I think we tried this and I couldn't get it to work and gave up on it. 
>> It's been a while back tho.  From my understanding, it is supposed to be
>> simple but simple doesn't always mean I can do it.  LOL  Email providers
>> always changing things doesn't help either. 
>>
>> Would this also work if I moved to Proton or something similar? 
>>
>> Dale
>>
>> :-)  :-) 
> Do you need to have a local email storage *in addition* to the desktop email 
> client downloading and storing your messages, if you are going to pay for a 
> service provider to do the same thing for you?  If yes, then dovecot is a good 
> option - there's a page on the wiki with configuration details.

Someone mentioned that I could use IMAP(???) or something so that it is
only stored on my local email server.  Also, I figure I could set it to
delete after a few days or a week from the email provider.  Then I only
have the local copy with Dovecot or whatever.  This would seem to be the
easiest way to use any mail program I want.  I really need to switch
from Seamonkey.  Seamonkey is getting to where it isn't good for much
else.  The email is about the only thing that works right.  If I set
this up to be local, Proton or some other email provider, then it won't
matter what email program I use and hopefully what provider I use either. 

If I'm going to change, I may as well change in a way that gives me some
options, especially with switching from Seamonkey.  So far, I don't like
other email software.  They all lack something or other. 

I'll look into the wiki page.  I can't recall what wouldn't work
before.  I just know I started it but never finished it. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

P. S.  It's a little after 4AM here.  I couldn't sleep so I cooked a
pork chop casserole a bit ago.  I wish email had smell ability.  I also
need to get some energy to finish cutting up that nasty old sweet gum
tree.  Health issues suck. 

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Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone here use Proton email service?

[Michael]

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On Thursday 3 October 2024 10:37:44 BST Dale wrote:
> Michael wrote:
> > On Thursday 3 October 2024 05:30:58 BST Dale wrote:
> >> Wol wrote:
> >>> On 02/10/2024 19:47, Dale wrote:
> >>>> Well, I'm not really wanting to do my own email server.  In a way,
> >>>> I'd like to have it so that everything is fetched, stored on my
> >>>> system and then I can use any email software I want, Seamonkey,
> >>>> Thunderbird, Mutt, Kmail or whatever, without losing a single email.
> >>>> Thing is, even that sounds like more than I care to chew on.  If
> >>>> someone would share configs, editing private info of course, and I
> >>>> could just drop those in and edit with my private info, I might
> >>>> consider it.  Thing is, I'm nervous about doing even that.  Be my
> >>>> luck, I'd screw up something and delete every email I've ever got.
> >>>> 
> >>>> :/   It would be nice tho to have a program fetch my emails and then
> >>>> 
> >>>> I can switch email software anytime without losing anything at all.
> >>> 
> >>> This is my setup.
> >>> 
> >>> I think I've talked about this before, but just emerge and set up
> >>> dovecot.
> >>> 
> >>> Make sure you set everything up in the local config file - look at the
> >>> global file that comes with dovecot, and at the end you'll see a
> >>> pointer to a non-existent local file. Set that up, and then make sure
> >>> your email client can see it. Move a couple of emails across and make
> >>> sure they're safe in dovecot.
> >>> 
> >>> Then you just set up a rule on your internet provider's inbox, that
> >>> moves emails across to dovecot, and everything is local on your
> >>> system. Obviously, they'll stay on the internet provider's setup until
> >>> they expire, but they're on your system, they can be backed up, and
> >>> they'll not be on the internet to be mined or broken into or whatever
> >>> for long.
> >>> 
> >>> Cheers,
> >>> Wol
> >> 
> >> I think we tried this and I couldn't get it to work and gave up on it.
> >> It's been a while back tho.  From my understanding, it is supposed to be
> >> simple but simple doesn't always mean I can do it.  LOL  Email providers
> >> always changing things doesn't help either.
> >> 
> >> Would this also work if I moved to Proton or something similar?
> >> 
> >> Dale
> >> 
> >> :-)  :-)
> > 
> > Do you need to have a local email storage *in addition* to the desktop
> > email client downloading and storing your messages, if you are going to
> > pay for a service provider to do the same thing for you?  If yes, then
> > dovecot is a good option - there's a page on the wiki with configuration
> > details.
> 
> Someone mentioned that I could use IMAP(???) or something so that it is
> only stored on my local email server.

IMAP4 is a more modern protocol for accessing your messages on a mail server 
than the older POP3 protocol.  Dovecot can be configured to be accessible over 
either protocol.

You can think of Dovecot as duplicating the function of the Gmail server, with 
the main difference being Dovecot will be storing your messages on your local 
PC, so you can access these with your email client(s) of choice.

However, you can access the Gmail server over IMAP4 with your email client(s) 
of choice singularly and in parallel, so there is no difference in this 
respect.


> Also, I figure I could set it to
> delete after a few days or a week from the email provider.  

Usually this is a POP3 setting.  Instead of deleting a message from the server 
once it is downloaded by your client, you can configure it to delete the 
downloaded message with some delay.  With IMAP4 you have to delete the 
messages from the server yourself and such deletion will be mirrored on your 
local storage too.  Deleted message will be gone, unless you have copied/
archived such messages to a local folder first.

Think of IMAP4 and its associated MAILDIR folders storage structure as being 
similar to using a file manager (e.g. Dolphin).


> Then I only
> have the local copy with Dovecot or whatever.  This would seem to be the
> easiest way to use any mail program I want.  I really need to switch
> from Seamonkey.

Ah!  This a new requirement.  We started from I don't like Google snooping 
through my messages, to arrive at I am looking for a different email desktop 
client.


> Seamonkey is getting to where it isn't good for much
> else.  The email is about the only thing that works right.  If I set
> this up to be local, Proton or some other email provider, then it won't
> matter what email program I use and hopefully what provider I use either. 

You can install/configure/test any other email desktop client to use IMAP4 to 
read your messages on Gmail as a start, until you settle on the desktop client 
of choice for you.  Then consider what email service provider suits your needs 
as a separate step, depending on features and price.


> If I'm going to change, I may as well change in a way that gives me some
> options, especially with switching from Seamonkey.  So far, I don't like
> other email software.  They all lack something or other. 
> 
> I'll look into the wiki page.  I can't recall what wouldn't work
> before.  I just know I started it but never finished it. 
> 
> Dale
> 
> :-)  :-) 

You can migrate all your messages from one mail server (e.g. Gmail) to another 
using IMAP4 with your desktop client of choice.  Configure both old and new 
server accounts to be accessed over IMAP4 on your desktop client and then drag 
and drop from the old account's Inbox/Sent/etc. folder to the corresponding 
new email service account folder, without the need to use a 3rd local mail 
server (e.g. Dovecot) as an intermediary.  Just copy a few messages at a time 
to avoid either server throttling your access.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone here use Proton email service?

[Peter Humphrey]

On Thursday 3 October 2024 12:33:46 BST Michael wrote:
> On Thursday 3 October 2024 10:37:44 BST Dale wrote:

> > Also, I figure I could set it to
> > delete after a few days or a week from the email provider.
> 
> Usually this is a POP3 setting.  Instead of deleting a message from the
> server once it is downloaded by your client, you can configure it to delete
> the downloaded message with some delay.  With IMAP4 you have to delete the
> messages from the server yourself and such deletion will be mirrored on
> your local storage too.  Deleted message will be gone, unless you have
> copied/ archived such messages to a local folder first.

The best ISP in the UK (according to Which?) does not offer IMAP; only POP. And 
POP mail disappears from their servers as soon as you fetch it.

--->8

> > If I'm going to change, I may as well change in a way that gives me some
> > options, especially with switching from Seamonkey.  So far, I don't like
> > other email software.  They all lack something or other.
> > 
> > I'll look into the wiki page.  I can't recall what wouldn't work
> > before.  I just know I started it but never finished it.

What do you dislike about KMail? I grumble about some of the key bindings, but 
otherwise it seems pretty good to me. Mostly, I can use it without touching 
the mouse, and I value that highly.

-- 
Regards,
Peter.

Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone here use Proton email service?

[Wols Lists]

On 03/10/2024 12:33, Michael wrote:
> Usually this is a POP3 setting.  Instead of deleting a message from the server
> once it is downloaded by your client, you can configure it to delete the
> downloaded message with some delay.  With IMAP4 you have to delete the
> messages from the server yourself and such deletion will be mirrored on your
> local storage too.  Deleted message will be gone, unless you have copied/
> archived such messages to a local folder first.

Don't confuse the poor lad. POP3 (typically) downloads the message and 
uses local mail client for storage. IMAP4 leaves everything on a mail 
server.
> 
> Think of IMAP4 and its associated MAILDIR folders storage structure as being
> similar to using a file manager (e.g. Dolphin).
> 
> 
>> Then I only
>> have the local copy with Dovecot or whatever.  This would seem to be the
>> easiest way to use any mail program I want.  I really need to switch
>> from Seamonkey.

Yup. That's what you want as far as I can tell.

> Ah!  This a new requirement.  We started from I don't like Google snooping
> through my messages, to arrive at I am looking for a different email desktop
> client.

Dale's been talking about this for ages. Possibly just didn't mention it 
this thread, but it's been obvious to me he wanted a client-agnostic 
solution.

Cheers,
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone here use Proton email service?

[Dale]

Wols Lists wrote:
> On 03/10/2024 12:33, Michael wrote:
>> Usually this is a POP3 setting.  Instead of deleting a message from
>> the server
>> once it is downloaded by your client, you can configure it to delete the
>> downloaded message with some delay.  With IMAP4 you have to delete the
>> messages from the server yourself and such deletion will be mirrored
>> on your
>> local storage too.  Deleted message will be gone, unless you have
>> copied/
>> archived such messages to a local folder first.
>
> Don't confuse the poor lad. POP3 (typically) downloads the message and
> uses local mail client for storage. IMAP4 leaves everything on a mail
> server.
>>
>> Think of IMAP4 and its associated MAILDIR folders storage structure
>> as being
>> similar to using a file manager (e.g. Dolphin).
>>
>>
>>> Then I only
>>> have the local copy with Dovecot or whatever.  This would seem to be
>>> the
>>> easiest way to use any mail program I want.  I really need to switch
>>> from Seamonkey.
>
> Yup. That's what you want as far as I can tell.
>
>> Ah!  This a new requirement.  We started from I don't like Google
>> snooping
>> through my messages, to arrive at I am looking for a different email
>> desktop
>> client.
>
> Dale's been talking about this for ages. Possibly just didn't mention
> it this thread, but it's been obvious to me he wanted a
> client-agnostic solution.
>
> Cheers,
> Wol
>
>


Exactly.  At some point, I expect Seamonkey to stop working and I'll be
forced to use other software.  Right now, I have no idea what that will
be.  I used Kmail ages ago.  It developed issues and I switched to
Seamonkey, back then Seamonkey was like Firefox or Chrome today.  I also
a while back test drove Thunderbird.  One would think it is the closest
to Seamonkey but it's different.  I think at some point waaaaaaay back
it was the same but has since been developed enough that it is a
different thing entirely. 

I think if I can get something local, Dovecot maybe, then I can switch
from Gmail more easily and then just test drive email software until I
find one I like.  Email is so complicated that at times it is hard to
know where to start.  I think, might be wrong, setting up Dovecot first
and then I can switch providers later, just add account to Dovecot, and
then switch email software until I find one I like once that is done.  I
could start with the IMAP thing and then switch to pop if I needed too. 
One thing I like about current setup, I have folders and filters. 
Everything gentoo-user goes into a gentoo-user folder.  Things I order
from Ebay goes into a Ebay folder.  I have sub folders for things I
don't get emails from to often.  I'd like to do the same with IMAP but
I'm not real sure how IMAP works.  I need to go find a video on Youtube
or something. 

Right now, this is like cutting that tree that was about 3 feet from my
house.  I want to cut it because of the falling limbs but it could fall
on my house when I cut it and really tear up things.  Once I got
everything hooked up to the tree, I felt better about cutting it.  For a
while tho, the thought of cutting that tree was scary.  It's getting
started since I'm clueless on this thing that makes me nervous.  :/  I
may blow up Google or something.  Wait . . . .  I better not ask that
question.  ;-)  They snoop.  LOL 

Once I get started, maybe this will go smoothly this time.  Just maybe. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone here use Proton email service?

[Wols Lists]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 513 bytes --]

On 04/10/2024 09:01, Dale wrote:
> Once I get started, maybe this will go smoothly this time.  Just maybe.

You'll need to read the docu, but this is my dovecot config file. Note 
that I have NOT changed any files that were installed with dovecot.

This file won't exist on a clean install, but it's pointed at by default 
install file on a "use it if it exists" basis.

I've got (iirc) a user vmail which dovecot runs as, and as you can see 
it uses /home/vmail as its data store for virtual users.

Cheers,
Wol

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# authentication configuration
auth_verbose = yes
auth_mechanisms = plain
passdb {
  driver = passwd-file
  args = /etc/dovecot/passwd
}
userdb {
  driver = static
  args = uid=vmail gid=vmail home=/home/vmail/%u
}

Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone here use Proton email service?

[Michael]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 6807 bytes --]

On Friday 4 October 2024 09:01:00 BST Dale wrote:
> Wols Lists wrote:
> > On 03/10/2024 12:33, Michael wrote:
> >> Usually this is a POP3 setting.  Instead of deleting a message from
> >> the server
> >> once it is downloaded by your client, you can configure it to delete the
> >> downloaded message with some delay.  With IMAP4 you have to delete the
> >> messages from the server yourself and such deletion will be mirrored
> >> on your
> >> local storage too.  Deleted message will be gone, unless you have
> >> copied/
> >> archived such messages to a local folder first.
> > 
> > Don't confuse the poor lad. POP3 (typically) downloads the message and
> > uses local mail client for storage. IMAP4 leaves everything on a mail
> > server.

Heh!  I didn't mean to cause confusion.  :-)

Modern POP3/IMAP4 implementations offer various options, which enhance their 
basic functionality.  Another way to think about the two protocols:

POP3 suits using one device to download, store, read your messages.  
Downloaded messages are deleted from the server's INBOX automatically, either 
immediately or if configured they are deleted after some delay.  If a second 
client accesses the POP3 server it will find any downloaded messages which 
have not yet been deleted marked as 'Read'.  The POP3 protocol was designed at 
the time of intermittent dial up internet connectivity.

IMAP4 keeps the messages on the server and these can be accessed and 
downloaded by any number of different client devices.  In addition, an IMAP4 
server allows the creation of a multi-folder hierarchy akin to a user's 
filesystem, where messages can be stored manually or by means of server-side 
filters.  Clients can be configured to perform a number of functions, 
including:

- Synchronize the content of server side folders to local folders 
bidirectionally.  Messages can be moved to folders at either end.

- Enable only selected folders to be synchronized between server and 
client(s).

- Choose to access messages online only, or configure your client to download 
messages for offline reading and local storage automatically, or selectively.  
Local changes will be synchronized with the server the next time the client is 
online.

- Archive copies of messages locally, copy/move them to client-side only 
folders, copy/move them to some other IMAP4 server's folder configured on the 
client and perform all this manually or automatically via filters.

For the above reasons it is obvious IMAP4 is a more flexible protocol, while 
POP3 reflects the needs of email usage in the 1980s.


> >> Think of IMAP4 and its associated MAILDIR folders storage structure
> >> as being similar to using a file manager (e.g. Dolphin).
> >> 
> >>> Then I only
> >>> have the local copy with Dovecot or whatever.  This would seem to be
> >>> the
> >>> easiest way to use any mail program I want.  I really need to switch
> >>> from Seamonkey.
> > 
> > Yup. That's what you want as far as I can tell.

I think 'the easiest way' would be to try out any number of email desktop 
clients with your existing Gmail account.  Emerge any number of email clients 
and give them a spin for a few weeks.  At some point you'll decide on a client 
you are prepared to live with, one with the least amount of pain and 
transactional friction.

Then you can invest some time exploring alternative email service providers to 
assess their offerings.

Finally, migrate your messages to the new provider - if you want to keep your 
messages stored online.

None of the above requires installing and configuring local email servers, 
fetchmail, smtp, etc. *unless* you have an interest in using such a local 
setup.


> >> Ah!  This a new requirement.  We started from I don't like Google
> >> snooping
> >> through my messages, to arrive at I am looking for a different email
> >> desktop client.
> > 
> > Dale's been talking about this for ages. Possibly just didn't mention
> > it this thread, but it's been obvious to me he wanted a
> > client-agnostic solution.
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > Wol

Apologies, if it was mentioned I missed it.


> Exactly.  At some point, I expect Seamonkey to stop working and I'll be
> forced to use other software.  Right now, I have no idea what that will
> be.  I used Kmail ages ago.  It developed issues and I switched to
> Seamonkey, back then Seamonkey was like Firefox or Chrome today.  I also
> a while back test drove Thunderbird.  One would think it is the closest
> to Seamonkey but it's different.  I think at some point waaaaaaay back
> it was the same but has since been developed enough that it is a
> different thing entirely.

T'bird has gone through 2 or 3 reincarnations, none as catastrophic as Kmail.  
T'bird users have complained things going awry at each major 'profile' 
upgrade, but most issues should be resolved if you start afresh with a new 
empty profile. I think today it is mostly OK, for most desktop users anyway.

Kmail went through a terrible period after the move to KDE4 - it was released 
on an unsuspecting community without loud enough health warnings.  Many users 
who did not keep extensive email backups lost messages.

I tried to move away from Kmail, but ended up spending more time trying to 
configure and tweak different clients to work as I wanted, than using them to 
access my email.  Eventually I gave up and returned to Kmail.  Today its 
performance is tolerable, for my needs at least.  There's a couple of quirks 
when setting up new accounts with some types of IMAP4 server implementations 
and its asynchronous message re-indexing can be quite sluggish when too many 
actions are queued up, but otherwise it just works as expected - YMMV.


> I think if I can get something local, Dovecot maybe, then I can switch
> from Gmail more easily and then just test drive email software until I
> find one I like.  Email is so complicated that at times it is hard to
> know where to start.  I think, might be wrong, setting up Dovecot first
> and then I can switch providers later, just add account to Dovecot, and
> then switch email software until I find one I like once that is done.  I
> could start with the IMAP thing and then switch to pop if I needed too. 
> One thing I like about current setup, I have folders and filters. 
> Everything gentoo-user goes into a gentoo-user folder.  Things I order
> from Ebay goes into a Ebay folder.  I have sub folders for things I
> don't get emails from to often.  I'd like to do the same with IMAP but
> I'm not real sure how IMAP works.  I need to go find a video on Youtube
> or something. 

What you are describing above is the basis of the IMAP4 folder structure.  
What protocol are you using to access Gmail?

I suggest you get your head around POP3 Vs IMAP4 first:

https://support.google.com/a/answer/12103?hl=en

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Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone here use Proton email service?

[Peter Humphrey]

On Wednesday 2 October 2024 20:10:15 BST Wol wrote:

> Make sure you set everything up in the local config file - look at the
> global file that comes with dovecot, and at the end you'll see a pointer
> to a non-existent local file. Set that up, and then make sure your email
> client can see it. Move a couple of emails across and make sure they're
> safe in dovecot.
> 
> Then you just set up a rule on your internet provider's inbox, that
> moves emails across to dovecot, and everything is local on your system.
> Obviously, they'll stay on the internet provider's setup until they
> expire, but they're on your system, they can be backed up, and they'll
> not be on the internet to be mined or broken into or whatever for long.

Not wishing to hijack the thread, but I've been trying for years, 
intermittently, to get LAN mail working. It did work once, years ago, but I'm 
damned if I can get it going again now. My problem is not with dovecot but 
with postfix. Mail originating on the posfix machine goes where it should, but 
not any from others on the LAN.

-- 
Regards,
Peter.

Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone here use Proton email service?

[Arve Barsnes]

On Thu, 3 Oct 2024 at 16:44, Peter Humphrey <peter@prh.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> Not wishing to hijack the thread, but I've been trying for years,
> intermittently, to get LAN mail working. It did work once, years ago, but I'm
> damned if I can get it going again now. My problem is not with dovecot but
> with postfix. Mail originating on the posfix machine goes where it should, but
> not any from others on the LAN.

Not wanting to hijack the hijack, and I don't really know which of
these I set up myself, but just my seemingly related config that works
to send mail from my server 'other' to postfix on 'this':

this:
/etc/postfix/aliases:
arve@<other>.lan arve

/etc/postfix/main.cf:
mynetworks = 192.168.0.0/24, 127.0.0.0/8

other:
/etc/mail/local-host-names:
<this>

etc/mail/mailertable:
192.168. smtp:<this>
<this> esmtp:<this>

Obviously 'other' has 'this' in /etc/hosts. And then I send mail with
'sendmail arve@<this>' (with sendmail from mail-mta/opensmtpd)

Regards,
Arve

Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone here use Proton email service?

[gentoo-user]

On Wed, 2024-10-02 at 16:26 +0700, Arthur R. wrote:
> There's not pretty much difference with something like Gmail. If you 
> want to do something illegal - your /encrypted/ correspondence will 
> suddenly be decrypted for those who are interested. If you want true 
> security and privacy - just selfhost your own email inbox. It's worth
> no 
> more than 1 euro and one or two hours, maybe more, if you not very 
> tech-savyy.
> 

This is really only true if you want to self host something that always
ends up in spam _or_ you already know everything there is to know about
hosting email.

Having said that - if self hosting is an option - absolutely go for it!
Figuring out all the components is great fun and massively rewarding!

-- 
Regards