[gentoo-user] Git for gentoo users?

[gentoo-user] Git for gentoo users?

[James]

> On 05/26/2016 04:32 AM, Peter Humphrey wrote:
> Aye, there's the rub. Git is a closed book to me at the moment.

Hello,

I started a new thread for (2) reason. 
1. The original thread does not show up in my gmane, as it was
down for a few days.

2. I think 'subject drift' warrants a new thread. Anyway recap::


You are not alone Peter. In fact there are so many git documents, howto
and such that every time I 'dive in' I mostly get a mess. Thankfully,
I keep duplicates of the codes in an old fashion directory tree 
structure;(circa 35 years now).

Better yet MO writes::
<snip>

You'll spend a while getting used to git, there's no way around it. You
just have to pick a project and force yourself to use git all day. All
of the commands have the wrong names:

  * Want to check out a repository? There's `git checkout`, but that's
    not what it does. You want `git clone`.

  * Want to start a new branch? There's `git branch`, but what you
    actually want is `git checkout`.

  * Want to reset the modifications you've made to a file? There's
    `git reset`, but what you really want is `git checkout`.

  * Want to merge your changes with upstream? There's `git merge`,
    but chances are, you want `git pull --rebase`.

  * Want to commit a new file? There's `git commit`, but it won't work.

...and so on.

That said, after my bicycle, git is probably the most useful piece of
technology I use on a daily basis. All of the time I spent banging my
head on my desk turned out to be well worth it. So, don't despair too much.

<end/snip>


which is GREAT! We just need more like this collected into the
gentoo-wiki-gentoo-git(hub)-handbook.


If fact maybe what we need is some GENTOO git/github guide collection that
ramps ups novices to some functional level with git and github via a well
defined pathway. Maybe that has already been documented on the irc channels
used by the 'proxy-maintainers'?    Dunno.....

But since git/hub is so intertwined now at gentoo, I'd surely appreciate a
GENTOO(git/hub)handbook so those of us not up to dev-status have a
functional guide that we can read and follow, up to a certain level. Maybe
that level is joining proxy-maintainer's club; then dev status.


Rote responses to the effect of 'go learn git/hub' I find is like learning
to cliff dive from 75' without first learning from a 1 meter spring-board.
It's just dysfunctional. The old CVS stuff was self explanatory and easy to
pick up.

I do follow the recent devmanual efforts and EAPI6 and it seems to me that 
the level of senior dev input to guide the other devs in those efforts is
bearing lots of fruit, as we (the user community) explore proxy-maintenance
and such 'step-up' pathways. If the devs want more proxy and devs to join,
making that pathway well defined goes a long way to encouraging folks, imho.


So what do others think, do we need a git/hub handbook right after the
gentoo-install-handbook, full of tips and recipes for gentoo git_noobs?


comments welcome,
James

Re: [gentoo-user] Git for gentoo users?

[Alan McKinnon]

On 26/05/2016 20:01, James wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 05/26/2016 04:32 AM, Peter Humphrey wrote:
>> Aye, there's the rub. Git is a closed book to me at the moment.
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I started a new thread for (2) reason. 
> 1. The original thread does not show up in my gmane, as it was
> down for a few days.
> 
> 2. I think 'subject drift' warrants a new thread. Anyway recap::
> 
> 
> You are not alone Peter. In fact there are so many git documents, howto
> and such that every time I 'dive in' I mostly get a mess. Thankfully,
> I keep duplicates of the codes in an old fashion directory tree 
> structure;(circa 35 years now).
> 
> Better yet MO writes::
> <snip>
> 
> You'll spend a while getting used to git, there's no way around it. You
> just have to pick a project and force yourself to use git all day. All
> of the commands have the wrong names:
> 
>   * Want to check out a repository? There's `git checkout`, but that's
>     not what it does. You want `git clone`.
> 
>   * Want to start a new branch? There's `git branch`, but what you
>     actually want is `git checkout`.
> 
>   * Want to reset the modifications you've made to a file? There's
>     `git reset`, but what you really want is `git checkout`.
> 
>   * Want to merge your changes with upstream? There's `git merge`,
>     but chances are, you want `git pull --rebase`.
> 
>   * Want to commit a new file? There's `git commit`, but it won't work.

No, those are all the correct names that git uses. Possibly years of
using cvs/svn has trained your brain to think in a particular way.

Git does not work that way. It's as different from svn as you can get
for 2 reasons:

1. There is no upstream master in git. YOU are YOUR master so you can't
checkout someone else's code. You can only clone it to make a whole new
repo that you are in charge of. There's not even a concept of an
upstream or downstream repo, except when you chose to use some other
repo in that way. Considering it so makes it so.

2. SVN works on files, so you commit files. git works with consistent
contained diffs so you commit a bunch of diffs as a unit to your repo
after adding a new file to the list of stuff to be tracked.

As Linux says, when confronted with two choices and no clear winner
between them, pick the opposite to what cvs does. Perhaps the git devs
went a tad overboard in being contrary :-)

-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Git for gentoo users?

[Michael Orlitzky]

On 05/26/2016 04:15 PM, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> 
> No, those are all the correct names that git uses. Possibly years of
> using cvs/svn has trained your brain to think in a particular way.
> 
> Git does not work that way. It's as different from svn as you can get
> for 2 reasons...

It all makes enough sense after you get used to it, but the problem is
that if you have some operation in mind and you read "git --help", then
you're going to guess the wrong command based on their names. Mercurial
and Darcs (which have a similar model) managed to get the names right.

The git people call their low-level commands "plumbing," and the
user-interface "porcelain." New user have trouble because the porcelain
commands are named after what the plumbing does. It's like if the
find/replace tool in your word processor was called "depth-first regular
expression group match substitution", and not "find."

[gentoo-user] Re: Git for gentoo users?

[James]

Michael Orlitzky <mjo <at> gentoo.org> writes:


> > No, those are all the correct names that git uses. Possibly years of
> > using cvs/svn has trained your brain to think in a particular way.

> > Git does not work that way. It's as different from svn as you can get
> > for 2 reasons...

I think you missed the point; There is a void between the install handbook
and the Dev and Ebuild documents. That is how to use git(&github) as a user
progresses along the pathway to near dev capabilities. Sure you can 'grind
it out' on your own and if that is what folks want, then there should be
'no bitching' about not enough devs. If the Gentoo community decides
'hey it'd sure be nice to have many more devs' then the pathways is dimly
lit, imho.

> It all makes enough sense after you get used to it, but the problem is
> that if you have some operation in mind and you read "git --help", then
> you're going to guess the wrong command based on their names. Mercurial
> and Darcs (which have a similar model) managed to get the names right.


Yes, I get the differences. They are not 'show stoppers' for me, but I do
believe the process of obtaining dev_level capabilities within the
gentoo framework, would be much more pleasurable if some git documentation,
customer tailored to gentoo was slowly develop over time on the gentoo wiki.


> The git people call their low-level commands "plumbing," and the
> user-interface "porcelain." New user have trouble because the porcelain
> commands are named after what the plumbing does. It's like if the
> find/replace tool in your word processor was called "depth-first regular
> expression group match substitution", and not "find."


OK, Git is not really that bit of a problem. It's finding the right hammer
and tools to get it working seemlessly with what is going on within 
the dev efforts. Granted, much is still being worked out, I get that
(and read about it).  But user level maniputions of overlays and ebuild
sources using git, is a bit of a 'walk once' atm, imho.

Maybe in time somebody will just grab a git manual/doc and hammer on it
so is looks and smells like a gentoo doc, and put it up in the wiki....
Maybe just a gentoo-user-howto for common user level tasks.
Just expressing my opine, timely with Peter and other's comments and my 
own beliefs.

Thanks for the comments,
James