[gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Dale]

Howdy,

Well, I went and did it.  On one hand, it's sort of nice.  Seems to be
faster in a way.  On the other hand, I want to wring its neck. I used to
have 10 virtual desktop thingys.  I was organized like a OCD King here. 
Well, that seems to have left the building.  Google informed me that
"activities" is the new thing.  No more virtual desktops.  All righty
then.  Then I keep getting a pop up that plasma is dying and needs to
restart.  It happens quite a bit.  I think I need a fly swatter.  ROFL 
It seems to do that when I try to use that panel thingy at the bottom. 
Also, I had a saved session that when I logged in, everything went where
it was supposed to be.  After I logged in, I was ready to get to it. 
Well, it must have found a open window because it is gone too.  Did Bill
Gates open that window???  o_O  It seems to use a LOT of memory too.  It
shows I'm using 11GBs out of the 16GBs I have.  O_O 

So!!  Is there a really well written howto for this thing or something
that one can read and sort of figure out where North is again?  Right
now, it's sort of making me dizzy.  I need something quick but at the
same time, gets me off to a start.  Linkys would be wonderful.  I found
this so far.

https://www.linux.com/learn/how-use-kde-plasma-desktop-pro

The biggest things.  Can I have a saved session again?  Or have it save
my activities or something that when I login, it starts most everything
itself without me digging around and doing it manually?  That would help. 

I hope I still have some hair left after this.  :/ 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Alan McKinnon]

On 12/04/2016 07:38, Dale wrote:
> Howdy,
> 
> Well, I went and did it.  On one hand, it's sort of nice.  Seems to be
> faster in a way.  On the other hand, I want to wring its neck. I used to
> have 10 virtual desktop thingys.  I was organized like a OCD King here. 
> Well, that seems to have left the building.  Google informed me that
> "activities" is the new thing.  No more virtual desktops.  

Not true. I have 6. Add the Virtual Desktop widget to the panel

>All righty
> then.  Then I keep getting a pop up that plasma is dying and needs to
> restart.  It happens quite a bit.  I think I need a fly swatter.  ROFL 
> It seems to do that when I try to use that panel thingy at the bottom.

Not true. Stable here

> Also, I had a saved session that when I logged in, everything went where
> it was supposed to be.  After I logged in, I was ready to get to it. 
> Well, it must have found a open window because it is gone too.  Did Bill
> Gates open that window???  o_O  It seems to use a LOT of memory too.  It
> shows I'm using 11GBs out of the 16GBs I have.  O_O 

No. KDE is not using 11G of RAM, that is ridiculous. KDE might be in a
position to *address* 11G of RAM which might be used for any of a number
of reasons - like caching every thumbnail you ever read in the session.

11G addressable out of 16G indicates that efficient use of your memory
is being made. What would be the point of having 16G and only ever using
say 1G?

> So!!  Is there a really well written howto for this thing or something
> that one can read and sort of figure out where North is again?  Right
> now, it's sort of making me dizzy.  I need something quick but at the
> same time, gets me off to a start.  Linkys would be wonderful.  I found
> this so far.

It's a bit too new for proper howtos.

> https://www.linux.com/learn/how-use-kde-plasma-desktop-pro
> 
> The biggest things.  Can I have a saved session again?  Or have it save
> my activities or something that when I login, it starts most everything
> itself without me digging around and doing it manually?  That would help. 

That part doesn't seem to work too well. I get most of my apps back at
restart, but on the wrong desktop, and non-kde apps are not remembered.

Solution: I never switch the computer off. Desktop just stays running,
laptops get suspended.


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Dale]

Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On 12/04/2016 07:38, Dale wrote:
>> Howdy,
>>
>> Well, I went and did it.  On one hand, it's sort of nice.  Seems to be
>> faster in a way.  On the other hand, I want to wring its neck. I used to
>> have 10 virtual desktop thingys.  I was organized like a OCD King here. 
>> Well, that seems to have left the building.  Google informed me that
>> "activities" is the new thing.  No more virtual desktops.  
> Not true. I have 6. Add the Virtual Desktop widget to the panel

If it had one, I would.  I can't find anything related to it and I
clicked on some things just in case it got renamed.  If it's there, I
can't find it here.  Maybe something else needs installing or
something.  I did figure out to add the activity thingy.  That sort of
helps. 

>
>> All righty
>> then.  Then I keep getting a pop up that plasma is dying and needs to
>> restart.  It happens quite a bit.  I think I need a fly swatter.  ROFL 
>> It seems to do that when I try to use that panel thingy at the bottom.
> Not true. Stable here

Well, here, it does.  I've got that at least a dozen times so far.  It
doesn't seem to be as often as it was but at first, it was every time I
clicked on the panel thingy.  It got to the point, I logged out and back
in again.  It seems to be getting better. 

>
>> Also, I had a saved session that when I logged in, everything went where
>> it was supposed to be.  After I logged in, I was ready to get to it. 
>> Well, it must have found a open window because it is gone too.  Did Bill
>> Gates open that window???  o_O  It seems to use a LOT of memory too.  It
>> shows I'm using 11GBs out of the 16GBs I have.  O_O 
> No. KDE is not using 11G of RAM, that is ridiculous. KDE might be in a
> position to *address* 11G of RAM which might be used for any of a number
> of reasons - like caching every thumbnail you ever read in the session.
>
> 11G addressable out of 16G indicates that efficient use of your memory
> is being made. What would be the point of having 16G and only ever using
> say 1G?
>

I missed the decimal point.  It was 1.1 not 11.  Allergies and new
glasses isn't helping with all this.  I did figure out how to make the
fonts bigger.  That helps.  ;-) 


>> So!!  Is there a really well written howto for this thing or something
>> that one can read and sort of figure out where North is again?  Right
>> now, it's sort of making me dizzy.  I need something quick but at the
>> same time, gets me off to a start.  Linkys would be wonderful.  I found
>> this so far.
> It's a bit too new for proper howtos.

I noticed.  I found a video but even that doesn't match what I have now
so I guess some things were changed since the video was made.  I think
it was several months old. 

>
>> https://www.linux.com/learn/how-use-kde-plasma-desktop-pro
>>
>> The biggest things.  Can I have a saved session again?  Or have it save
>> my activities or something that when I login, it starts most everything
>> itself without me digging around and doing it manually?  That would help. 
> That part doesn't seem to work too well. I get most of my apps back at
> restart, but on the wrong desktop, and non-kde apps are not remembered.
>
> Solution: I never switch the computer off. Desktop just stays running,
> laptops get suspended.
>
>

I did find with google that it is supposed to restore but some things
don't work.  That seems to match what we got.  Maybe later on they will
get it sorted. 

In a way, I like it.  I just need to figure out how to set it up so that
I can work with it.  Other than a glitch or two, it's not to bad.  The
biggest thing, I forgot and updated Firefox and they took tab grouping
away.  I wasn't ready for that.  I wanted to get settled in KDE5 first
then do that.  The old Firefox was took out of the tree. Bummer.

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[J. Roeleveld]

On Tuesday, April 12, 2016 02:04:47 AM Dale wrote:
> Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > On 12/04/2016 07:38, Dale wrote:
> >> Howdy,
> >> 
> >> Well, I went and did it.  On one hand, it's sort of nice.  Seems to be
> >> faster in a way.  On the other hand, I want to wring its neck. I used to
> >> have 10 virtual desktop thingys.  I was organized like a OCD King here.
> >> Well, that seems to have left the building.  Google informed me that
> >> "activities" is the new thing.  No more virtual desktops.
> > 
> > Not true. I have 6. Add the Virtual Desktop widget to the panel
> 
> If it had one, I would.  I can't find anything related to it and I
> clicked on some things just in case it got renamed.  If it's there, I
> can't find it here.  Maybe something else needs installing or
> something.  I did figure out to add the activity thingy.  That sort of
> helps.
> 
> >> All righty
> >> then.  Then I keep getting a pop up that plasma is dying and needs to
> >> restart.  It happens quite a bit.  I think I need a fly swatter.  ROFL
> >> It seems to do that when I try to use that panel thingy at the bottom.
> > 
> > Not true. Stable here
> 
> Well, here, it does.  I've got that at least a dozen times so far.  It
> doesn't seem to be as often as it was but at first, it was every time I
> clicked on the panel thingy.  It got to the point, I logged out and back
> in again.  It seems to be getting better.
> 
> >> Also, I had a saved session that when I logged in, everything went where
> >> it was supposed to be.  After I logged in, I was ready to get to it.
> >> Well, it must have found a open window because it is gone too.  Did Bill
> >> Gates open that window???  o_O  It seems to use a LOT of memory too.  It
> >> shows I'm using 11GBs out of the 16GBs I have.  O_O
> > 
> > No. KDE is not using 11G of RAM, that is ridiculous. KDE might be in a
> > position to *address* 11G of RAM which might be used for any of a number
> > of reasons - like caching every thumbnail you ever read in the session.
> > 
> > 11G addressable out of 16G indicates that efficient use of your memory
> > is being made. What would be the point of having 16G and only ever using
> > say 1G?
> 
> I missed the decimal point.  It was 1.1 not 11.  Allergies and new
> glasses isn't helping with all this.  I did figure out how to make the
> fonts bigger.  That helps.  ;-)
> 
> >> So!!  Is there a really well written howto for this thing or something
> >> that one can read and sort of figure out where North is again?  Right
> >> now, it's sort of making me dizzy.  I need something quick but at the
> >> same time, gets me off to a start.  Linkys would be wonderful.  I found
> >> this so far.
> > 
> > It's a bit too new for proper howtos.
> 
> I noticed.  I found a video but even that doesn't match what I have now
> so I guess some things were changed since the video was made.  I think
> it was several months old.
> 
> >> https://www.linux.com/learn/how-use-kde-plasma-desktop-pro
> >> 
> >> The biggest things.  Can I have a saved session again?  Or have it save
> >> my activities or something that when I login, it starts most everything
> >> itself without me digging around and doing it manually?  That would help.
> > 
> > That part doesn't seem to work too well. I get most of my apps back at
> > restart, but on the wrong desktop, and non-kde apps are not remembered.
> > 
> > Solution: I never switch the computer off. Desktop just stays running,
> > laptops get suspended.
> 
> I did find with google that it is supposed to restore but some things
> don't work.  That seems to match what we got.  Maybe later on they will
> get it sorted.
> 
> In a way, I like it.  I just need to figure out how to set it up so that
> I can work with it.  Other than a glitch or two, it's not to bad.  The
> biggest thing, I forgot and updated Firefox and they took tab grouping
> away.  I wasn't ready for that.  I wanted to get settled in KDE5 first
> then do that.  The old Firefox was took out of the tree. Bummer.
> 
> Dale
> 
> :-)  :-)

Dale,

Considering the amount of changes, did you reboot the system or at least 
killed everything running at least once?

That should also help with the stability.

Also, I used the following 2 meta-packages:
kde-apps/kde-apps-meta
kde-plasma/plasma-meta

This gave me most stuff, including the configuration for virtual desktop in the 
same place (SystemSettings)

Start that, then search for "Virtual Desktops" and the only working icon is 
where you need to be.

The pager thing to select the virtual desktops appears magically then.

--
Joost

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Dale]

J. Roeleveld wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 12, 2016 02:04:47 AM Dale wrote:
>>
>> <<< SNIP >>>
>>
>>
>> Dale
>>
>> :-)  :-)
> Dale,
>
> Considering the amount of changes, did you reboot the system or at least 
> killed everything running at least once?
>
> That should also help with the stability.
>
> Also, I used the following 2 meta-packages:
> kde-apps/kde-apps-meta
> kde-plasma/plasma-meta
>
> This gave me most stuff, including the configuration for virtual desktop in the 
> same place (SystemSettings)
>
> Start that, then search for "Virtual Desktops" and the only working icon is 
> where you need to be.
>
> The pager thing to select the virtual desktops appears magically then.
>
> --
> Joost
>
>

Update and some info for Joost.

I been playing with this a while and found some things.  First, I had to
get to the settings part which would only give a error working.  When I
got to the edit part, I figured out that for some reason, it was still
trying to run the KDE4 command, which was removed during the upgrade of
course.  So, I got that back by giving it the new command,
systemsettings5 I think was it.  That helped.  Once in there, I found
lots of things to help get things to where I could work with them.  I
found out that I could add multiple desktops back and at that point, the
desktop pager thingy appeared and worked.  I guess when it is set to 1
desktop, it doesn't show up or something.  I also got it to where it
wouldn't turn my monitor off and lock the screen if I turned my head a
minute.  Then I found out how to adjust the size of fonts in a lot of
other places.  Now that helped a lot.  I was using a magnifying glass to
read some stuff.  I also set the numlock to on.  I have numbers in my
password and that was getting annoying to have to turn on. 

I very rarely reboot.  After a big upgrade, I just go to single user,
use the checkrestart command to be sure and then go back to default
runlevel.  I also generally clear the cache and such too.  I restart or
kill anything checkrestart shows if needed. 

I do have those packages installed.  I emerged plasma-meta and that
pulled in a lot.  Since I run some unstable stuff already, I had to
adjust some things to get emerge happy.  After that, it was a large
download and a lot of compile time. 

As it is, the biggest thing is that it doesn't seem to carry over
settings from KDE4.  It seems to start out fresh just like if it was a
clean install.  Other than that, it's OK.  I still get the occasional
plasma crash tho.  It's not as often but it still pops up on occasion. 
I may start a emerge -e world.  I haven't done that in a while anyway
and it usually clears up weird issues that can't quite be figured out. 

Oh, I had to switch to sddm for this too.  You just change the setting
from kdm to sddm and it just works.  It looks different but it works
fine.  That may have carried over some settings.  It selected the user
and was ready for my password just like kdm did.  Again, it looks
different but it seems to work the same.  I suspect one could adjust the
settings, somewhere, and make it look like kdm if they wanted to. 

Thanks.

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Tue, 12 Apr 2016 13:21:37 -0500, Dale wrote:

> Oh, I had to switch to sddm for this too.  You just change the setting
> from kdm to sddm and it just works.  It looks different but it works
> fine.  That may have carried over some settings.  It selected the user
> and was ready for my password just like kdm did.  Again, it looks
> different but it seems to work the same.  I suspect one could adjust the
> settings, somewhere, and make it look like kdm if they wanted to. 

That's because kdm is dead. I found sddm a little flakey. On my laptop it
works more or less as expected, but on my desktop, selecting reboot or
power off from the desktop drops me back to sddm without rebooting. I'm
nit sure if this is an issue with sddm or plasma, maybe I'll try slim
instead.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

A printer consists of three main parts: the case, the jammed paper tray
and the blinking red light.

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Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[J. Roeleveld]

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On Tuesday, April 12, 2016 07:53:34 PM Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Apr 2016 13:21:37 -0500, Dale wrote:
> > Oh, I had to switch to sddm for this too.  You just change the setting
> > from kdm to sddm and it just works.  It looks different but it works
> > fine.  That may have carried over some settings.  It selected the user
> > and was ready for my password just like kdm did.  Again, it looks
> > different but it seems to work the same.  I suspect one could adjust the
> > settings, somewhere, and make it look like kdm if they wanted to.
> 
> That's because kdm is dead. I found sddm a little flakey. On my laptop it
> works more or less as expected, but on my desktop, selecting reboot or
> power off from the desktop drops me back to sddm without rebooting. I'm
> nit sure if this is an issue with sddm or plasma, maybe I'll try slim
> instead.

That could also be caused by polkit, consolekit or similar not allowing the 
reboot on your desktop.

--
Joost

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Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Dale]

Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Apr 2016 13:21:37 -0500, Dale wrote:
>
>> Oh, I had to switch to sddm for this too.  You just change the setting
>> from kdm to sddm and it just works.  It looks different but it works
>> fine.  That may have carried over some settings.  It selected the user
>> and was ready for my password just like kdm did.  Again, it looks
>> different but it seems to work the same.  I suspect one could adjust the
>> settings, somewhere, and make it look like kdm if they wanted to. 
> That's because kdm is dead. I found sddm a little flakey. On my laptop it
> works more or less as expected, but on my desktop, selecting reboot or
> power off from the desktop drops me back to sddm without rebooting. I'm
> nit sure if this is an issue with sddm or plasma, maybe I'll try slim
> instead.
>
>


Yea, when I was googling around I found out that the plug was pulled on
kdm.  The old kdm always worked for me but KDE5 and the plasma thing is
a whole new can of worms code wise from what I read.  I guess a fresh
start was easier than trying to recode all that mess. 

I haven't tried rebooting/shutdown yet so I guess I'll find out one time
or another if I have the same problem.  Generally tho, I only
shutdown/reboot when I have a power failure here.  So far, I'm at 118
days.  When I do that, I usually do it within KDE since I already know I
have to shutdown and I'm almost always logged in. 

I'm just glad this is a little smoother than the KDE3 to KDE4 mess.  :-) 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Frank Steinmetzger]

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On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 07:53:34PM +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Apr 2016 13:21:37 -0500, Dale wrote:

A while ago I set up a VM in which I can observe KDE 5 as it matures. Right
now I find it not yet usable, mostly because many things are not yet ported
and because of random crashes of plasma. (And I too find Breeze too much
space-consuming, plus there are those single-colour icons that are clearly
inspired by Spysoft Windows 10).
Oh well, in the early days of KDE 4 I was a huge fan of KDE 3’s Crystal
icons, and now I really like Oxygen. It is always a question of getting used
to change. But those thin, colourless, sometimes abstract lines really make
it more difficult to recognise stuff, making it also a UX issue.

> > Oh, I had to switch to sddm for this too.  You just change the setting
> > from kdm to sddm and it just works.  It looks different but it works
> > fine.  That may have carried over some settings.  It selected the user
> > and was ready for my password just like kdm did.  Again, it looks
> > different but it seems to work the same.  I suspect one could adjust the
> > settings, somewhere, and make it look like kdm if they wanted to.
>
> That's because kdm is dead. I found sddm a little flakey. On my laptop it
> works more or less as expected, but on my desktop, selecting reboot or
> power off from the desktop drops me back to sddm without rebooting.

I don't particularly like SDDM. I does not allow me to log in using just the
keyboard, I always have to click into the password field after it loaded up.
The field is neither active by default nor can I select it with Tab. Call it
a nitpick, but even Windows lets me enter my password without a mouse. Is it
a problem with my VM or can you confirm this?

This would more belong to a KDE forum, but since I’m at it, I can just as
well blurb it here. :)
I have a similar argument about the new cascading (“old-style”) Application
menu in KDE 5: In KDE 4, I can access any item in the Leave menu (and any
other submenu, for that matter) with Alt+F1 and two letters (as long as they
get a shortcut letter assigned). This is not possible anymore due to the new
search field.
Well, my argument is a bit self-contradicting because in KDE 3 SuSE hat a
similar search field in the menu and back then I actually liked that. But
nowadays we have KRunner for searching. The cascading menu is perfect for
fast keyboard-based navigation using the starting letter. And even though I
don’t use the favorites feature myself, those are also not accessible with
the keyboard at all.

-- 
Gruß | Greetings | Qapla’
Please do not share anything from, with or about me with any social network.

“A computer is like air conditioning:
it becomes useless when you open Windows.” – Linus Torvalds

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Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Alan McKinnon]

On 12/04/2016 22:10, Frank Steinmetzger wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 07:53:34PM +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote:
>> On Tue, 12 Apr 2016 13:21:37 -0500, Dale wrote:

8<

>>> Oh, I had to switch to sddm for this too.  You just change the setting
>>> from kdm to sddm and it just works.  It looks different but it works
>>> fine.  That may have carried over some settings.  It selected the user
>>> and was ready for my password just like kdm did.  Again, it looks
>>> different but it seems to work the same.  I suspect one could adjust the
>>> settings, somewhere, and make it look like kdm if they wanted to.
>>
>> That's because kdm is dead. I found sddm a little flakey. On my laptop it
>> works more or less as expected, but on my desktop, selecting reboot or
>> power off from the desktop drops me back to sddm without rebooting.
> 
> I don't particularly like SDDM. I does not allow me to log in using just the
> keyboard, I always have to click into the password field after it loaded up.
> The field is neither active by default nor can I select it with Tab. Call it
> a nitpick, but even Windows lets me enter my password without a mouse. Is it
> a problem with my VM or can you confirm this?

It get it as well. But worse, it's erratic. Sometimes the password field
has focus on startup, sometimes now. Sometimes my usert account is
selected sometimes not.

I have a suspicion it's somehow related to whether I press Enter to
initiate login, or click the button with a mouse. But that takes too
many logouts to verify so I haven't checked :-)



-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Marc Joliet]

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On Tuesday 12 April 2016 22:10:10 Frank Steinmetzger wrote:
>I don't particularly like SDDM. I does not allow me to log in using just the
>keyboard, I always have to click into the password field after it loaded up.
>The field is neither active by default nor can I select it with Tab. Call it
>a nitpick, but even Windows lets me enter my password without a mouse. Is it
>a problem with my VM or can you confirm this?

I find it depends on the SDDM theme used.  After the upgrade, on both systems, 
SDDM used Maui by default, with which I had two problems: the password field never 
started out focused, and it would always display that I had selected an English locale... 
except the instant I press a key, it would switch to German -- apparently a UI issue :-/ .  
I subsequently switched to the Breeze theme and haven't had any serious issues 
since -- SDDM doesn't show my user's avatar, while the screen locker does, but that's 
it, I think).

HTH
=2D- 
Marc Joliet
=2D-
"People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who know we
don't" - Bjarne Stroustrup


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<p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">On Tuesday 12 April 2016 22:10:10 Frank Steinmetzger wrote:</p>
<p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">&gt;I don't particularly like SDDM. I does not allow me to log in using just the</p>
<p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">&gt;keyboard, I always have to click into the password field after it loaded up.</p>
<p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">&gt;The field is neither active by default nor can I select it with Tab. Call it</p>
<p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">&gt;a nitpick, but even Windows lets me enter my password without a mouse. Is it</p>
<p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">&gt;a problem with my VM or can you confirm this?</p>
<p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; ">&nbsp;</p>
<p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">I find it depends on the SDDM theme used.  After the upgrade, on both systems, SDDM used Maui by default, with which I had two problems: the password field never started out focused, and it would always display that I had selected an English locale... except the instant I press a key, it would switch to German -- apparently a UI issue :-/ .  I subsequently switched to the Breeze theme and haven't had any serious issues since -- SDDM doesn't show my user's avatar, while the screen locker does, but that's it, I think).</p>
<p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; ">&nbsp;</p>
<p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">HTH</p>
<p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">-- </p>
<p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">Marc Joliet</p>
<p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">--</p>
<p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">&quot;People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who know we</p>
<p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">don't&quot; - Bjarne Stroustrup</p>
<p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; ">&nbsp;</p></body></html>
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On Tuesday 12 April 2016 22:10:10 Frank Steinmetzger wrote:
>I don't particularly like SDDM. I does not allow me to log in using just the
>keyboard, I always have to click into the password field after it loaded up.
>The field is neither active by default nor can I select it with Tab. Call it
>a nitpick, but even Windows lets me enter my password without a mouse. Is it
>a problem with my VM or can you confirm this?

I find it depends on the SDDM theme used.  After the upgrade, on both systems, 
SDDM used Maui by default, with which I had two problems: the password field never 
started out focused, and it would always display that I had selected an English locale... 
except the instant I press a key, it would switch to German -- apparently a UI issue :-/ .  
I subsequently switched to the Breeze theme and haven't had any serious issues 
since -- SDDM doesn't show my user's avatar, while the screen locker does, but that's 
it, I think).

HTH
-- 
Marc Joliet
--
"People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who know we
don't" - Bjarne Stroustrup


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Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Dale]

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Marc Joliet wrote:
>
> On Tuesday 12 April 2016 22:10:10 Frank Steinmetzger wrote:
>
> >I don't particularly like SDDM. I does not allow me to log in using
> just the
>
> >keyboard, I always have to click into the password field after it
> loaded up.
>
> >The field is neither active by default nor can I select it with Tab.
> Call it
>
> >a nitpick, but even Windows lets me enter my password without a
> mouse. Is it
>
> >a problem with my VM or can you confirm this?
>
>  
>
> I find it depends on the SDDM theme used. After the upgrade, on both
> systems, SDDM used Maui by default, with which I had two problems: the
> password field never started out focused, and it would always display
> that I had selected an English locale... except the instant I press a
> key, it would switch to German -- apparently a UI issue :-/ . I
> subsequently switched to the Breeze theme and haven't had any serious
> issues since -- SDDM doesn't show my user's avatar, while the screen
> locker does, but that's it, I think).
>
>  
>
> HTH
>
> -- 
>
> Marc Joliet
>
> --
>
> "People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who
> know we
>
> don't" - Bjarne Stroustrup
>
>  
>


If anyone is brave enough to file a bug, I can say that it doesn't focus
on the password here either.  It selects the user but that's it.  Since
it works on some themes and not others, makes one wonder if the theme
has something to do with it. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

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Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Daniel Frey]

On 04/12/16 19:55, Dale wrote:

> If anyone is brave enough to file a bug, I can say that it doesn't focus
> on the password here either.  It selects the user but that's it.  Since
> it works on some themes and not others, makes one wonder if the theme
> has something to do with it. 
> 
> Dale
> 
> :-)  :-) 

Apparently it does have something to do with the theme. I found this by
accident when looking around for more themes:

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=337079

I supposed if you wanted to edit it yourself it could be fixed.

Dan

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Tue, 12 Apr 2016 21:22:12 -0700, Daniel Frey wrote:

> > If anyone is brave enough to file a bug, I can say that it doesn't
> > focus on the password here either.  It selects the user but that's
> > it.  Since it works on some themes and not others, makes one wonder
> > if the theme has something to do with it. 

> Apparently it does have something to do with the theme. I found this by
> accident when looking around for more themes:
> 
> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=337079
> 
> I supposed if you wanted to edit it yourself it could be fixed.

The bodge posted in that bug report is in the Breeze theme file, which
must be why it works, but there is no corresponding section in the Maui
theme. I use auto-login so I rarely see the sddm screen anyway, so I'll
just leave it at Breeze.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Processor: (n.) a device for converting sense to nonsense at the speed
           of electricity, or (rarely) the reverse.

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Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Alec Ten Harmsel]

On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 09:55:48PM -0500, Dale wrote:
> 
> If anyone is brave enough to file a bug, I can say that it doesn't focus
> on the password here either.  It selects the user but that's it.  Since
> it works on some themes and not others, makes one wonder if the theme
> has something to do with it. 
> 
> Dale
> 
> :-)  :-) 

I have been writing a lot of Qt'd code recently. If I have time and
remember, I'll fix it. Can't be that hard.

Alec

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Daniel Frey]

On 04/12/16 11:53, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Apr 2016 13:21:37 -0500, Dale wrote:
> 
>> Oh, I had to switch to sddm for this too.  You just change the setting
>> from kdm to sddm and it just works.  It looks different but it works
>> fine.  That may have carried over some settings.  It selected the user
>> and was ready for my password just like kdm did.  Again, it looks
>> different but it seems to work the same.  I suspect one could adjust the
>> settings, somewhere, and make it look like kdm if they wanted to. 
> 
> That's because kdm is dead. I found sddm a little flakey. On my laptop it
> works more or less as expected, but on my desktop, selecting reboot or
> power off from the desktop drops me back to sddm without rebooting. I'm
> nit sure if this is an issue with sddm or plasma, maybe I'll try slim
> instead.
> 
> 

SDDM was doing that to me too until I created a default config.

I don't really have any issues with SDDM itself, it seems to work.
Although when I'm at the login screen and I click the power button I was
expecting a menu to pop up asking whether I wanted to restart or
shutdown, and it proceeded to shut down on me... I rarely do this from
the login screen so not a huge issue for me.

I have noticed a couple weird things. I wanted to add a network "place"
in dolphin, and it didn't do it - but it added it to the K menu's
computer tab and now I can't figure out how to remove it from there.

Oh, I was messing around with panels again and accidently removed the
entire task bar again -_- but KDE popped up a nice big undo button for
me! That was kind of nice. Everytime I upgrade I always forget and
remove the whole panel and not the widget...

One other issue is Clementine's nifty tray icon is gone, replaced by
some weird kde5 generic thing. Anyone know how I can get the original
one back? I used it frequently as it had more than the
pause/forward/back that the generic kde one has.

Dan

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Tue, 12 Apr 2016 14:00:37 -0700, Daniel Frey wrote:

> > That's because kdm is dead. I found sddm a little flakey. On my
> > laptop it works more or less as expected, but on my desktop,
> > selecting reboot or power off from the desktop drops me back to sddm
> > without rebooting. I'm nit sure if this is an issue with sddm or
> > plasma, maybe I'll try slim instead.

> SDDM was doing that to me too until I created a default config.

That appears to have worked, thanks.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million
typewriters will eventually reproduce the works of Shakespeare.
Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true.

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[gentoo-user] Re: KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[»Q«]

On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 00:17:48 +0100
Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:

> On Tue, 12 Apr 2016 14:00:37 -0700, Daniel Frey wrote:
> 
> > > That's because kdm is dead. I found sddm a little flakey. On my
> > > laptop it works more or less as expected, but on my desktop,
> > > selecting reboot or power off from the desktop drops me back to
> > > sddm without rebooting. I'm nit sure if this is an issue with
> > > sddm or plasma, maybe I'll try slim instead.  
> 
> > SDDM was doing that to me too until I created a default config.  
> 
> That appears to have worked, thanks.

I have a default config, but I can't reboot or shutdown from sddm.  If
I press one of those buttons, a 30-second timer starts.  Pressing more
buttons to try to skip the timer just restarts the timer.  Letting the
timer run down, it gets to zero then goes beyond, into negative
integers.  I can live with that;  it's rare that I want to shut down
from the login manager, and switching to a virtual terminal lets me
escape.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 08:30:48 -0500, »Q« wrote:

> > > > That's because kdm is dead. I found sddm a little flakey. On my
> > > > laptop it works more or less as expected, but on my desktop,
> > > > selecting reboot or power off from the desktop drops me back to
> > > > sddm without rebooting. I'm nit sure if this is an issue with
> > > > sddm or plasma, maybe I'll try slim instead.    
> >   
> > > SDDM was doing that to me too until I created a default config.    
> > 
> > That appears to have worked, thanks.  
> 
> I have a default config, but I can't reboot or shutdown from sddm.  If
> I press one of those buttons, a 30-second timer starts.  Pressing more
> buttons to try to skip the timer just restarts the timer.  Letting the
> timer run down, it gets to zero then goes beyond, into negative
> integers.

That's a different problem, mine was that I couldn't reboot or shutdown
fro the desktop, it dropped me back as sddm as if I'd selected Logout.
Then I could shutdown from sddm.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Zmodem has bigger bits, softer blocks, and tighter ASCII

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[gentoo-user] Re: KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[»Q«]

On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 21:19:30 +0100
Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:

> On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 08:30:48 -0500, »Q« wrote:
> 
> > > > > That's because kdm is dead. I found sddm a little flakey. On
> > > > > my laptop it works more or less as expected, but on my
> > > > > desktop, selecting reboot or power off from the desktop drops
> > > > > me back to sddm without rebooting. I'm nit sure if this is an
> > > > > issue with sddm or plasma, maybe I'll try slim instead.      
> > >     
> > > > SDDM was doing that to me too until I created a default
> > > > config.      
> > > 
> > > That appears to have worked, thanks.    
> > 
> > I have a default config, but I can't reboot or shutdown from sddm.
> > If I press one of those buttons, a 30-second timer starts.
> > Pressing more buttons to try to skip the timer just restarts the
> > timer.  Letting the timer run down, it gets to zero then goes
> > beyond, into negative integers.  
> 
> That's a different problem, mine was that I couldn't reboot or
> shutdown fro the desktop, it dropped me back as sddm as if I'd
> selected Logout. Then I could shutdown from sddm.

Thanks -- I understood you the first time but had forgotten what you
said by the time I replied downthread.  D'oh!

My automatically-created sddm.conf has

[General]
HaltCommand=/sbin/shutdown -h -P now
Numlock=none
RebootCommand=/sbin/shutdown -r now

which looks alright to me.  I'll try troubleshooting this later, but if
anyone has any suggestions I'd appreciate them any time.


 

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 15:43:54 -0500, »Q« wrote:

> My automatically-created sddm.conf has
> 
> [General]
> HaltCommand=/sbin/shutdown -h -P now
> Numlock=none
> RebootCommand=/sbin/shutdown -r now
> 
> which looks alright to me.  I'll try troubleshooting this later, but if
> anyone has any suggestions I'd appreciate them any time.

Mine has

[General]
HaltCommand=
RebootCommand=


-- 
Neil Bothwick

If a man is standing in the middle of the forest speaking and there is
no woman around to hear him - Is he still wrong?

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[gentoo-user] Re: KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[»Q«]

On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 22:21:59 +0100
Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:

> On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 15:43:54 -0500, »Q« wrote:
> 
> > My automatically-created sddm.conf has
> > 
> > [General]
> > HaltCommand=/sbin/shutdown -h -P now
> > Numlock=none
> > RebootCommand=/sbin/shutdown -r now
> > 
> > which looks alright to me.  I'll try troubleshooting this later,
> > but if anyone has any suggestions I'd appreciate them any time.  
> 
> Mine has
> 
> [General]
> HaltCommand=
> RebootCommand=

Thanks.  That doesn't work for me.  Neither does putting mine in single
or double quotes.  Neither does switching sddm themes.

I don't actually ever want/need to shutdown or reboot from the greeter,
so I'll let it be.  I found <https://github.com/sddm/sddm/issues/458>,
so I don't feel so all alone.  :)

(While poking around in their ticket tracker, I also found out that
every sddm developer is using systemd.  I was barely able to restrain
myself from smashing my laptop with a hammer.  ;)

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[J. Roeleveld]

On Tuesday, April 12, 2016 01:21:37 PM Dale wrote:
> J. Roeleveld wrote:
> > On Tuesday, April 12, 2016 02:04:47 AM Dale wrote:
> >> <<< SNIP >>>
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Dale
> >> 
> >> :-)  :-)
> > 
> > Dale,
> > 
> > Considering the amount of changes, did you reboot the system or at least
> > killed everything running at least once?
> > 
> > That should also help with the stability.
> > 
> > Also, I used the following 2 meta-packages:
> > kde-apps/kde-apps-meta
> > kde-plasma/plasma-meta
> > 
> > This gave me most stuff, including the configuration for virtual desktop
> > in the same place (SystemSettings)
> > 
> > Start that, then search for "Virtual Desktops" and the only working icon
> > is
> > where you need to be.
> > 
> > The pager thing to select the virtual desktops appears magically then.
> > 
> > --
> > Joost
> 
> Update and some info for Joost.

Thanks, as I now have a bit more time, I will add my own thoughts as well.

> I been playing with this a while and found some things.  First, I had to
> get to the settings part which would only give a error working.  When I
> got to the edit part, I figured out that for some reason, it was still
> trying to run the KDE4 command, which was removed during the upgrade of
> course.  So, I got that back by giving it the new command,
> systemsettings5 I think was it.  That helped.

Hmm, I actually started it from the K-menu. When it's opened, you can search 
through all the entries by simply typing.
I did do an " emerge --depclean " before trying to configure things. Eg. 
systemsettings for kde4 disappeared already.

> Once in there, I found
> lots of things to help get things to where I could work with them.  I
> found out that I could add multiple desktops back and at that point, the
> desktop pager thingy appeared and worked.  I guess when it is set to 1
> desktop, it doesn't show up or something.

Which seems logical behaviour to me. And the same happened here after 
configuring it.

> I also got it to where it
> wouldn't turn my monitor off and lock the screen if I turned my head a
> minute.

I use my laptop also when at "public" places, like at a customer. Which means 
the auto-lock-screen-after-5-minutes is a useful feature.
Now if only I could have that time auto-adjusted based on the network it's 
connected to? :)

> Then I found out how to adjust the size of fonts in a lot of
> other places.  Now that helped a lot.  I was using a magnifying glass to
> read some stuff.  I also set the numlock to on.  I have numbers in my
> password and that was getting annoying to have to turn on.
> 
> I very rarely reboot.  After a big upgrade, I just go to single user,
> use the checkrestart command to be sure and then go back to default
> runlevel.  I also generally clear the cache and such too.  I restart or
> kill anything checkrestart shows if needed.

I had issues where checkrestart wouldn't kill enough, or didn't notice changes 
to configuration. Hibernate (eg. suspend-to-disk) didn't work from kde until I 
rebooted.

> I do have those packages installed.  I emerged plasma-meta and that
> pulled in a lot.  Since I run some unstable stuff already, I had to
> adjust some things to get emerge happy.  After that, it was a large
> download and a lot of compile time.

Those 2 pull in nearly everything.

> As it is, the biggest thing is that it doesn't seem to carry over
> settings from KDE4.  It seems to start out fresh just like if it was a
> clean install.

That is actually mentioned in the upgrade-guide. Just not in so-many words.
I actually think that's a good thing as a lot of the issues I had when first 
switching to KDE4 was caused by left-over settings from KDE3. A fresh start 
helped a lot.

> Other than that, it's OK.  I still get the occasional
> plasma crash tho.  It's not as often but it still pops up on occasion.

I've had 1 today, when I clicked on the up-pointing triangle to get all the 
hidden systray items. That was, so far, the only one.

> I may start a emerge -e world.  I haven't done that in a while anyway
> and it usually clears up weird issues that can't quite be figured out.
> 
> Oh, I had to switch to sddm for this too.  You just change the setting
> from kdm to sddm and it just works.

Same here, and mentioned in the upgrade-guide.
I actually did the change to SDDM before switching to KDE5/Plasma.

> It looks different but it works
> fine.  That may have carried over some settings.  It selected the user
> and was ready for my password just like kdm did.  Again, it looks
> different but it seems to work the same.  I suspect one could adjust the
> settings, somewhere, and make it look like kdm if they wanted to.

Yes, you can.
Google for " sddm themes ".
They go in " /usr/share/sddm/themes "

The OCD one looks like the KDM Oxygen theme...

Now for my thoughts:

I haven't found a decent colourscheme yet (There wasn't one for KDE4 either)

Most of the apps are ok, just waiting for KDevelop 5 to appear in the tree.

My biggest complaint though:
KSnapshot has disappeared and been replaced by " Spectacle ".
It might be a technically better solution, but the primary reason I absolutely 
love KSnapshot is it's ability to quickly take a new snapshot of the same 
region (adjusting slightly when necessary) and then it defaulting to the next-
numbered filename in the same folder when selecting "Save As".

With Spectacle I end up having to redefine the region every single time and 
having to click multiple times to get to Save As and then it always goes back 
to some Pictures folder. The quick-save (which includes a Quit-action) uses 
timestamps.
In other words, I end up spending more time clicking needlessly during my 
work, or renaming manually after the activity is finished.

--
Joost

[gentoo-user] Re: KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[»Q«]

On Tue, 12 Apr 2016 21:04:08 +0200
"J. Roeleveld" <joost@antarean.org> wrote:

> I haven't found a decent colourscheme yet (There wasn't one for KDE4
> either)

If you find one, please post here about it.  I started with Breeze and
then changed some colors, but I really suck at that.

> My biggest complaint though:
> KSnapshot has disappeared and been replaced by " Spectacle ".

I have ksnapshot in @world, so depclean didn't touch it.  It
still works fine.  Spectacle and ksnapshot block each other, but if you
unmerge spectacle you may be able to get a working ksnapshot back, at
least for now.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[J. Roeleveld]

On Tuesday, April 12, 2016 02:18:47 PM »Q« wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Apr 2016 21:04:08 +0200
> 
> "J. Roeleveld" <joost@antarean.org> wrote:
> > I haven't found a decent colourscheme yet (There wasn't one for KDE4
> > either)
> 
> If you find one, please post here about it.  I started with Breeze and
> then changed some colors, but I really suck at that.
> 
> > My biggest complaint though:
> > KSnapshot has disappeared and been replaced by " Spectacle ".
> 
> I have ksnapshot in @world, so depclean didn't touch it.  It
> still works fine.  Spectacle and ksnapshot block each other, but if you
> unmerge spectacle you may be able to get a working ksnapshot back, at
> least for now.

I know, had to copy a meta-ebuild ( kdegraphics-meta ) into my local overlay 
and modify it to pick ksnapshot though. As the later version only allows 
Spectacle.

Problem is Ksnapshot is "dead code". I do hope they'll fix the interface of 
Spectacle. Does anyone know which of the many gazillion mailinglists for KDE 
is the best place to post to?

Thanks,

Joost

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Tue, 12 Apr 2016 21:31:28 +0200, J. Roeleveld wrote:

> > I have ksnapshot in @world, so depclean didn't touch it.  It
> > still works fine.  Spectacle and ksnapshot block each other, but if
> > you unmerge spectacle you may be able to get a working ksnapshot
> > back, at least for now.  
> 
> I know, had to copy a meta-ebuild ( kdegraphics-meta ) into my local
> overlay and modify it to pick ksnapshot though. As the later version
> only allows Spectacle.

I don't use the meta packages, preferring to define my own set with the
packages I want, so I wasn't aware of Spectacle. I've just tried it an is
seems to do much the same as ksnapshot, just with a lot more white space
in the UI - but WTF do they block one another, they're only screen shot
programs?

I did emerge it with USE=-kipi - why do I need that to take simple
screenshots?


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Why do programmers get Halloween and Christmas confused?
Because oct 31 is the same as dec 25.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[J. Roeleveld]

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On Tuesday, April 12, 2016 09:01:16 PM Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Apr 2016 21:31:28 +0200, J. Roeleveld wrote:
> > > I have ksnapshot in @world, so depclean didn't touch it.  It
> > > still works fine.  Spectacle and ksnapshot block each other, but if
> > > you unmerge spectacle you may be able to get a working ksnapshot
> > > back, at least for now.
> > 
> > I know, had to copy a meta-ebuild ( kdegraphics-meta ) into my local
> > overlay and modify it to pick ksnapshot though. As the later version
> > only allows Spectacle.
> 
> I don't use the meta packages, preferring to define my own set with the
> packages I want, so I wasn't aware of Spectacle. I've just tried it an is
> seems to do much the same as ksnapshot, just with a lot more white space
> in the UI

Don't forget:
- No auto-incrementing of screenshot-numbers
- Always defaults to PNG (Why!?!!?!)
- Always defaults to a the ~/Pictures folder
   (Folder can be adjusted in the settings, but why not the previous one)
- When wanting to use "save as...", you first need to click the little triangle


> - but WTF do they block one another, they're only screen shot
> programs?

I read somewhere there is a "wrapper" included to call Spectacle when someone 
tries to start "ksnapshot"...

> I did emerge it with USE=-kipi - why do I need that to take simple
> screenshots?

No clue, maybe to take screenshots when using compositing or similar?

--
Joost

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Tue, 12 Apr 2016 22:17:38 +0200, J. Roeleveld wrote:

> > I don't use the meta packages, preferring to define my own set with
> > the packages I want, so I wasn't aware of Spectacle. I've just tried
> > it an is seems to do much the same as ksnapshot, just with a lot more
> > white space in the UI  
> 
> Don't forget:
> - No auto-incrementing of screenshot-numbers
> - Always defaults to PNG (Why!?!!?!)
> - Always defaults to a the ~/Pictures folder
>    (Folder can be adjusted in the settings, but why not the previous
> one)
> - When wanting to use "save as...", you first need to click the little
> triangle

OK I accept when you start to actually use it rather than just giving it
a try, it sucks!! 
 
> > - but WTF do they block one another, they're only screen shot
> > programs?  
> 
> I read somewhere there is a "wrapper" included to call Spectacle when
> someone tries to start "ksnapshot"...

So it's a "compatibility layer" for people so stupid they shouldn't be
running Gentoo in the first place...


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Death to all fanatics!

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[J. Roeleveld]

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On Tuesday, April 12, 2016 10:19:39 PM Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Apr 2016 22:17:38 +0200, J. Roeleveld wrote:
> > > I don't use the meta packages, preferring to define my own set with
> > > the packages I want, so I wasn't aware of Spectacle. I've just tried
> > > it an is seems to do much the same as ksnapshot, just with a lot more
> > > white space in the UI
> > 
> > Don't forget:
> > - No auto-incrementing of screenshot-numbers
> > - Always defaults to PNG (Why!?!!?!)
> > - Always defaults to a the ~/Pictures folder
> > 
> >    (Folder can be adjusted in the settings, but why not the previous
> > 
> > one)
> > - When wanting to use "save as...", you first need to click the little
> > triangle
> 
> OK I accept when you start to actually use it rather than just giving it
> a try, it sucks!!

Yep.
Most common use-case for me (eg. once a month) is to take screenshots of the 
timesheet-application used at my customer to forward to my manager.
The "window" is a remote desktop of which I only need a certain section.

With KSnapshot the whole process takes less then 5 minutes.
With Spectacle it took me 30 minutes...

> > > - but WTF do they block one another, they're only screen shot
> > > programs?
> > 
> > I read somewhere there is a "wrapper" included to call Spectacle when
> > someone tries to start "ksnapshot"...
> 
> So it's a "compatibility layer" for people so stupid they shouldn't be
> running Gentoo in the first place...

Apparently.
But Alan McKinnon said the blockage is actually pointless as there is no 
conflict...

--
Joost

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Alan McKinnon]

On 12/04/2016 22:01, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Apr 2016 21:31:28 +0200, J. Roeleveld wrote:
> 
>>> I have ksnapshot in @world, so depclean didn't touch it.  It
>>> still works fine.  Spectacle and ksnapshot block each other, but if
>>> you unmerge spectacle you may be able to get a working ksnapshot
>>> back, at least for now.  
>>
>> I know, had to copy a meta-ebuild ( kdegraphics-meta ) into my local
>> overlay and modify it to pick ksnapshot though. As the later version
>> only allows Spectacle.
> 
> I don't use the meta packages, preferring to define my own set with the
> packages I want, so I wasn't aware of Spectacle. I've just tried it an is
> seems to do much the same as ksnapshot, just with a lot more white space
> in the UI - but WTF do they block one another, they're only screen shot
> programs?

There doesn't seem to be a good technical reason, maybe it's as simple
as the maintainer thought there shouldn't be two competing apps with the
same functionality?

I unblocked them here, and re-emerged both. Nothing extra was pulled in,
so there are no conflicting libs.

Unfortunately I can't attach a screenshot as proof - both remove their
own window to do the capture :-)


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[J. Roeleveld]

On Tuesday, April 12, 2016 10:18:50 PM Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On 12/04/2016 22:01, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> > On Tue, 12 Apr 2016 21:31:28 +0200, J. Roeleveld wrote:
> >>> I have ksnapshot in @world, so depclean didn't touch it.  It
> >>> still works fine.  Spectacle and ksnapshot block each other, but if
> >>> you unmerge spectacle you may be able to get a working ksnapshot
> >>> back, at least for now.
> >> 
> >> I know, had to copy a meta-ebuild ( kdegraphics-meta ) into my local
> >> overlay and modify it to pick ksnapshot though. As the later version
> >> only allows Spectacle.
> > 
> > I don't use the meta packages, preferring to define my own set with the
> > packages I want, so I wasn't aware of Spectacle. I've just tried it an is
> > seems to do much the same as ksnapshot, just with a lot more white space
> > in the UI - but WTF do they block one another, they're only screen shot
> > programs?
> 
> There doesn't seem to be a good technical reason, maybe it's as simple
> as the maintainer thought there shouldn't be two competing apps with the
> same functionality?
> 
> I unblocked them here, and re-emerged both. Nothing extra was pulled in,
> so there are no conflicting libs.
> 
> Unfortunately I can't attach a screenshot as proof - both remove their
> own window to do the capture :-)

Find a 3rd one to do it with.
Or take a picture with a mobile phone? :)

--
Joost

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Alan McKinnon]

On 12/04/2016 22:31, J. Roeleveld wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 12, 2016 10:18:50 PM Alan McKinnon wrote:
>> On 12/04/2016 22:01, Neil Bothwick wrote:
>>> On Tue, 12 Apr 2016 21:31:28 +0200, J. Roeleveld wrote:
>>>>> I have ksnapshot in @world, so depclean didn't touch it.  It
>>>>> still works fine.  Spectacle and ksnapshot block each other, but if
>>>>> you unmerge spectacle you may be able to get a working ksnapshot
>>>>> back, at least for now.
>>>>
>>>> I know, had to copy a meta-ebuild ( kdegraphics-meta ) into my local
>>>> overlay and modify it to pick ksnapshot though. As the later version
>>>> only allows Spectacle.
>>>
>>> I don't use the meta packages, preferring to define my own set with the
>>> packages I want, so I wasn't aware of Spectacle. I've just tried it an is
>>> seems to do much the same as ksnapshot, just with a lot more white space
>>> in the UI - but WTF do they block one another, they're only screen shot
>>> programs?
>>
>> There doesn't seem to be a good technical reason, maybe it's as simple
>> as the maintainer thought there shouldn't be two competing apps with the
>> same functionality?
>>
>> I unblocked them here, and re-emerged both. Nothing extra was pulled in,
>> so there are no conflicting libs.
>>
>> Unfortunately I can't attach a screenshot as proof - both remove their
>> own window to do the capture :-)
> 
> Find a 3rd one to do it with.
> Or take a picture with a mobile phone? :)

I considered that, then I remembered that I'm a lazy sod, so I didn't!


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

[gentoo-user] Re: KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[»Q«]

On Tue, 12 Apr 2016 22:43:26 +0200
Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 12/04/2016 22:31, J. Roeleveld wrote:
> > On Tuesday, April 12, 2016 10:18:50 PM Alan McKinnon wrote:  

> >> I unblocked them here, and re-emerged both. Nothing extra was
> >> pulled in, so there are no conflicting libs.
> >>
> >> Unfortunately I can't attach a screenshot as proof - both remove
> >> their own window to do the capture :-)  
> > 
> > Find a 3rd one to do it with.
> > Or take a picture with a mobile phone? :)  
> 
> I considered that, then I remembered that I'm a lazy sod, so I didn't!

A second instance of ksnapshot should work.  (But I don't need proof --
I believe you. :)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Frank Steinmetzger]

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On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 10:18:50PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:

> > [...] I wasn't aware of Spectacle. I've just tried it an is seems to do
> > much the same as ksnapshot, just with a lot more white space in the UI -
> > but WTF do they block one another, they're only screen shot programs?
> [...]
> I unblocked them here, and re-emerged both. Nothing extra was pulled in,
> so there are no conflicting libs.
> 
> Unfortunately I can't attach a screenshot as proof - both remove their
> own window to do the capture :-)

import -window root screenshot.png

-- 
Gruß | Greetings | Qapla’
Please do not share anything from, with or about me with any social network.

Veni, vermini, vomui.
I came, I got ratted, I threw up.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Alan McKinnon]

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On 12/04/2016 22:46, Frank Steinmetzger wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 10:18:50PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> 
>>> [...] I wasn't aware of Spectacle. I've just tried it an is seems to do
>>> much the same as ksnapshot, just with a lot more white space in the UI -
>>> but WTF do they block one another, they're only screen shot programs?
>> [...]
>> I unblocked them here, and re-emerged both. Nothing extra was pulled in,
>> so there are no conflicting libs.
>>
>> Unfortunately I can't attach a screenshot as proof - both remove their
>> own window to do the capture :-)
> 
> import -window root screenshot.png
> 

Hey that's neat! Attached...

-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com


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[gentoo-user] Re: KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[walt]

On Tue, 12 Apr 2016 22:50:46 +0200
Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 12/04/2016 22:46, Frank Steinmetzger wrote:

> >> Unfortunately I can't attach a screenshot as proof - both remove
> >> their own window to do the capture :-)  
> > 
> > import -window root screenshot.png
> >   
> 
> Hey that's neat! Attached...

Along the left edge of the screen you have a bunch of widgets for CPU,
disk, and network activity.  What kde/plasma stuff are you using to do
that, and does it all depend on ~arch packages?  Will it still work
tomorrow?  :p

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Mick]

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On Thursday 14 Apr 2016 13:38:15 walt wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Apr 2016 22:50:46 +0200
> 
> Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 12/04/2016 22:46, Frank Steinmetzger wrote:
> > >> Unfortunately I can't attach a screenshot as proof - both remove
> > >> their own window to do the capture :-)
> > > 
> > > import -window root screenshot.png
> > 
> > Hey that's neat! Attached...
> 
> Along the left edge of the screen you have a bunch of widgets for CPU,
> disk, and network activity.  What kde/plasma stuff are you using to do
> that, and does it all depend on ~arch packages?  Will it still work
> tomorrow?  :p

Do you mean app-admin/gkrellm ?

-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Alan McKinnon]

On 14/04/2016 22:38, walt wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Apr 2016 22:50:46 +0200
> Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 12/04/2016 22:46, Frank Steinmetzger wrote:
> 
>>>> Unfortunately I can't attach a screenshot as proof - both remove
>>>> their own window to do the capture :-)  
>>>
>>> import -window root screenshot.png
>>>   
>>
>> Hey that's neat! Attached...
> 
> Along the left edge of the screen you have a bunch of widgets for CPU,
> disk, and network activity.  What kde/plasma stuff are you using to do
> that, and does it all depend on ~arch packages?  Will it still work
> tomorrow?  :p
> 
> 

that's not plasma it's gkrell.

Been around for years and works just about everywhere
I find the equivalent plasmoids are huge clunky and nowhere near as useful

-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

[gentoo-user] Re: KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[»Q«]

On Fri, 15 Apr 2016 10:41:54 +0200
Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 14/04/2016 22:38, walt wrote:

> > Along the left edge of the screen you have a bunch of widgets for
> > CPU, disk, and network activity.  What kde/plasma stuff are you
> > using to do that, and does it all depend on ~arch packages?  Will
> > it still work tomorrow?  :p  
> 
> that's not plasma it's gkrell.
> 
> Been around for years and works just about everywhere
> I find the equivalent plasmoids are huge clunky and nowhere near as
> useful 

Conky also continues to work fine after the move to Plasma 5 -- I did
have to change own_window to 'yes' in conkyrc to get it to show up.  I
completely agree with you about the plasmoid widgets.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Alan McKinnon]

On 12/04/2016 22:46, Frank Steinmetzger wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 10:18:50PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> 
>>> [...] I wasn't aware of Spectacle. I've just tried it an is seems to do
>>> much the same as ksnapshot, just with a lot more white space in the UI -
>>> but WTF do they block one another, they're only screen shot programs?
>> [...]
>> I unblocked them here, and re-emerged both. Nothing extra was pulled in,
>> so there are no conflicting libs.
>>
>> Unfortunately I can't attach a screenshot as proof - both remove their
>> own window to do the capture :-)
> 
> import -window root screenshot.png
> 

Huh. S now 2 days after updating all of kde, I get to do it again. Lots
and lots and lots of these:

[ebuild     U  ] kde-frameworks/krunner-5.21.0:5/5.21::gentoo
[5.20.0:5/5.20::gentoo]

-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[J. Roeleveld]

On Tuesday, April 12, 2016 10:55:54 PM Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On 12/04/2016 22:46, Frank Steinmetzger wrote:
> > On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 10:18:50PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> >>> [...] I wasn't aware of Spectacle. I've just tried it an is seems to do
> >>> much the same as ksnapshot, just with a lot more white space in the UI -
> >>> but WTF do they block one another, they're only screen shot programs?
> >> 
> >> [...]
> >> I unblocked them here, and re-emerged both. Nothing extra was pulled in,
> >> so there are no conflicting libs.
> >> 
> >> Unfortunately I can't attach a screenshot as proof - both remove their
> >> own window to do the capture :-)
> > 
> > import -window root screenshot.png
> 
> Huh. S now 2 days after updating all of kde, I get to do it again. Lots
> and lots and lots of these:
> 
> [ebuild     U  ] kde-frameworks/krunner-5.21.0:5/5.21::gentoo
> [5.20.0:5/5.20::gentoo]

Are you running "unstable"?

--
Joost

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Alan McKinnon]

On 13/04/2016 07:43, J. Roeleveld wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 12, 2016 10:55:54 PM Alan McKinnon wrote:
>> On 12/04/2016 22:46, Frank Steinmetzger wrote:
>>> On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 10:18:50PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
>>>>> [...] I wasn't aware of Spectacle. I've just tried it an is seems to do
>>>>> much the same as ksnapshot, just with a lot more white space in the UI -
>>>>> but WTF do they block one another, they're only screen shot programs?
>>>>
>>>> [...]
>>>> I unblocked them here, and re-emerged both. Nothing extra was pulled in,
>>>> so there are no conflicting libs.
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately I can't attach a screenshot as proof - both remove their
>>>> own window to do the capture :-)
>>>
>>> import -window root screenshot.png
>>
>> Huh. S now 2 days after updating all of kde, I get to do it again. Lots
>> and lots and lots of these:
>>
>> [ebuild     U  ] kde-frameworks/krunner-5.21.0:5/5.21::gentoo
>> [5.20.0:5/5.20::gentoo]
> 
> Are you running "unstable"?

Yeah, ~arch. I've run that almost everywhere for years


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

[gentoo-user] Re: KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Jonathan Callen]

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On 04/13/2016 04:06 AM, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On 13/04/2016 07:43, J. Roeleveld wrote:
>> On Tuesday, April 12, 2016 10:55:54 PM Alan McKinnon wrote:
>>> 
>>> Huh. S now 2 days after updating all of kde, I get to do it 
>>> again. Lots and lots and lots of these:
>>> 
>>> [ebuild     U  ] kde-frameworks/krunner-5.21.0:5/5.21::gentoo 
>>> [5.20.0:5/5.20::gentoo]
>> 
>> Are you running "unstable"?
> 
> Yeah, ~arch. I've run that almost everywhere for years
> 


Plasma 5 (kde-plasma/*) releases a new minor version every four
months, and bugfixes at the 1st, 2nd, 4th, 7th, and 12th week after that.

KDE Frameworks (kde-frameworks/*) releases a new minor version every
month.

KDE Applications (kde-apps/*) releases a new version every four months
(not on the same schedule as Plasma), and bugfixes each month that
there isn't a new version.

Overall, there are plenty of updates coming.


-- 
Jonathan Callen


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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Tue, 12 Apr 2016 22:18:50 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:

> > I don't use the meta packages, preferring to define my own set with
> > the packages I want, so I wasn't aware of Spectacle. I've just tried
> > it an is seems to do much the same as ksnapshot, just with a lot more
> > white space in the UI - but WTF do they block one another, they're
> > only screen shot programs?  
> 
> There doesn't seem to be a good technical reason, maybe it's as simple
> as the maintainer thought there shouldn't be two competing apps with the
> same functionality?
> 
> I unblocked them here, and re-emerged both. Nothing extra was pulled in,
> so there are no conflicting libs.
> 
> Unfortunately I can't attach a screenshot as proof - both remove their
> own window to do the capture :-)

Run two copies, then you can snapshot one with the other ;-)


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Voting Democrat or Republican is like choosing a cabin in the Titanic.

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Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Dale]

J. Roeleveld wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 12, 2016 01:21:37 PM Dale wrote:
>> J. Roeleveld wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, April 12, 2016 02:04:47 AM Dale wrote:
>>>> <<< SNIP >>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dale
>>>>
>>>> :-)  :-)
>>> Dale,
>>>
>>> Considering the amount of changes, did you reboot the system or at least
>>> killed everything running at least once?
>>>
>>> That should also help with the stability.
>>>
>>> Also, I used the following 2 meta-packages:
>>> kde-apps/kde-apps-meta
>>> kde-plasma/plasma-meta
>>>
>>> This gave me most stuff, including the configuration for virtual desktop
>>> in the same place (SystemSettings)
>>>
>>> Start that, then search for "Virtual Desktops" and the only working icon
>>> is
>>> where you need to be.
>>>
>>> The pager thing to select the virtual desktops appears magically then.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Joost
>> Update and some info for Joost.
> Thanks, as I now have a bit more time, I will add my own thoughts as well.
>
>> I been playing with this a while and found some things.  First, I had to
>> get to the settings part which would only give a error working.  When I
>> got to the edit part, I figured out that for some reason, it was still
>> trying to run the KDE4 command, which was removed during the upgrade of
>> course.  So, I got that back by giving it the new command,
>> systemsettings5 I think was it.  That helped.
> Hmm, I actually started it from the K-menu. When it's opened, you can search 
> through all the entries by simply typing.
> I did do an " emerge --depclean " before trying to configure things. Eg. 
> systemsettings for kde4 disappeared already.

That is sort of what I was trying to do except I was looking for the
actual menu entry.  The problem is, the one for settings was not using
the correct command.  I'm not sure what to think about that.  Anyway,
after I fixed that, that lead to a lot more fixes on other things. 


>> Once in there, I found
>> lots of things to help get things to where I could work with them.  I
>> found out that I could add multiple desktops back and at that point, the
>> desktop pager thingy appeared and worked.  I guess when it is set to 1
>> desktop, it doesn't show up or something.
> Which seems logical behaviour to me. And the same happened here after 
> configuring it.
>

It is logical.  I knew I had to enable multiple desktops but since the
settings thing wasn't working, I couldn't figure out how to enable it. 
When I did a google search, I saw where several folks said it was gone
which caused me great concern.  I got to much stuff going on right now
to redo my whole setup. 


>> I also got it to where it
>> wouldn't turn my monitor off and lock the screen if I turned my head a
>> minute.
> I use my laptop also when at "public" places, like at a customer. Which means 
> the auto-lock-screen-after-5-minutes is a useful feature.
> Now if only I could have that time auto-adjusted based on the network it's 
> connected to? :)

Yea, the setting it had would be good for a public place or a laptop
that can be any number of places.  For my desktop tho, it was way to
quick.  Actually, I disabled the lock part.  I just want my monitor to
turn off after a while.  If I want to lock the screen, I just use the
keyboard shortcut ctrl alt L. 


>> Then I found out how to adjust the size of fonts in a lot of
>> other places.  Now that helped a lot.  I was using a magnifying glass to
>> read some stuff.  I also set the numlock to on.  I have numbers in my
>> password and that was getting annoying to have to turn on.
>>
>> I very rarely reboot.  After a big upgrade, I just go to single user,
>> use the checkrestart command to be sure and then go back to default
>> runlevel.  I also generally clear the cache and such too.  I restart or
>> kill anything checkrestart shows if needed.
> I had issues where checkrestart wouldn't kill enough, or didn't notice changes 
> to configuration. Hibernate (eg. suspend-to-disk) didn't work from kde until I 
> rebooted.

I've never had that here.  It seems to always work for me but you may
have something installed that I don't. 

>> I do have those packages installed.  I emerged plasma-meta and that
>> pulled in a lot.  Since I run some unstable stuff already, I had to
>> adjust some things to get emerge happy.  After that, it was a large
>> download and a lot of compile time.
> Those 2 pull in nearly everything.
>
>> As it is, the biggest thing is that it doesn't seem to carry over
>> settings from KDE4.  It seems to start out fresh just like if it was a
>> clean install.
> That is actually mentioned in the upgrade-guide. Just not in so-many words.
> I actually think that's a good thing as a lot of the issues I had when first 
> switching to KDE4 was caused by left-over settings from KDE3. A fresh start 
> helped a lot.

If I recall correctly, when I did the upgrade from KDE3 to KDE4, I tried
to use my old settings.  It was a mess.  I ended up renaming the
directory and starting fresh.  Some things were just weird.  Thing is,
it was hard to figure out if it was a bad config or just a bug that
needed fixing.  As we likely recall, that switch was less than smooth
for a lot of people. 


>> Other than that, it's OK.  I still get the occasional
>> plasma crash tho.  It's not as often but it still pops up on occasion.
> I've had 1 today, when I clicked on the up-pointing triangle to get all the 
> hidden systray items. That was, so far, the only one.

I think I've had two today here.  It seems to be getting better
somehow.  I'm not sure if it is me changing settings or what tho. 

>> I may start a emerge -e world.  I haven't done that in a while anyway
>> and it usually clears up weird issues that can't quite be figured out.
>>
>> Oh, I had to switch to sddm for this too.  You just change the setting
>> from kdm to sddm and it just works.
> Same here, and mentioned in the upgrade-guide.
> I actually did the change to SDDM before switching to KDE5/Plasma.
>
>> It looks different but it works
>> fine.  That may have carried over some settings.  It selected the user
>> and was ready for my password just like kdm did.  Again, it looks
>> different but it seems to work the same.  I suspect one could adjust the
>> settings, somewhere, and make it look like kdm if they wanted to.
> Yes, you can.
> Google for " sddm themes ".
> They go in " /usr/share/sddm/themes "
>
> The OCD one looks like the KDM Oxygen theme...

I may do that.  I'm bad to search for Gentoo themes.  lol  I usually
like them well enough.  Thing is, I don't get to see sddm much. 

>
> Now for my thoughts:
>
> I haven't found a decent colourscheme yet (There wasn't one for KDE4 either)
>
> Most of the apps are ok, just waiting for KDevelop 5 to appear in the tree.
>
> My biggest complaint though:
> KSnapshot has disappeared and been replaced by " Spectacle ".
> It might be a technically better solution, but the primary reason I absolutely 
> love KSnapshot is it's ability to quickly take a new snapshot of the same 
> region (adjusting slightly when necessary) and then it defaulting to the next-
> numbered filename in the same folder when selecting "Save As".
>
> With Spectacle I end up having to redefine the region every single time and 
> having to click multiple times to get to Save As and then it always goes back 
> to some Pictures folder. The quick-save (which includes a Quit-action) uses 
> timestamps.
> In other words, I end up spending more time clicking needlessly during my 
> work, or renaming manually after the activity is finished.
>
> --
> Joost
>
>


I kind of liked ksnapshot but rarely used it.  It is really easy to
use.  I'll look into that other one and see what I can figure out with it. 

Dale

:-)  :-)

P. S.  Maybe now that I got my puter up to date, I can finish changing
that clutch on the tractor.  I'm almost to the clutch now.  o_O 

[gentoo-user] Re: KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[»Q«]

On Tue, 12 Apr 2016 22:11:22 -0500
Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:

> J. Roeleveld wrote:
> > On Tuesday, April 12, 2016 01:21:37 PM Dale wrote:  
> >> J. Roeleveld wrote:  

> >> Once in there, I found lots of things to help get things to where
> >> I could work with them.  I found out that I could add multiple
> >> desktops back and at that point, the desktop pager thingy appeared
> >> and worked.  I guess when it is set to 1 desktop, it doesn't show
> >> up or something.  

> > Which seems logical behaviour to me. And the same happened here
> > after configuring it.  
> 
> It is logical.  I knew I had to enable multiple desktops but since the
> settings thing wasn't working, I couldn't figure out how to enable
> it. When I did a google search, I saw where several folks said it was
> gone which caused me great concern.  I got to much stuff going on
> right now to redo my whole setup.

The whining about it being "gone" in your search results is probably
because an important (to some people) feature is gone -- you can't have
different backgrounds and widgets on different virtual desktops within
the same activity any more.  Apparently that feature was buggy in 
KDE 4, though I never had problems with it, so they decided to ditch
it.  They have a plan to re-implement it, but I have no idea how long
it might take.

Earlier you said the new desktop didn't pick up any of the old KDE 4
settings;  I can't find that post, so I'm replying here.  For me, it
picked up a few at least.  Under KDE 4, I had changed my "location"
directories, e.g. the pictures and music directories, and Plasma 5
kept my locations intact.  I also had a couple of scripts in
autostart, and Plasma 5 is using them;  I'm not sure if it copied them
to a new location or just left them where they were. 

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Dale]

»Q« wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Apr 2016 22:11:22 -0500
> Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> J. Roeleveld wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, April 12, 2016 01:21:37 PM Dale wrote:  
>>>> J. Roeleveld wrote:  
>>>> Once in there, I found lots of things to help get things to where
>>>> I could work with them.  I found out that I could add multiple
>>>> desktops back and at that point, the desktop pager thingy appeared
>>>> and worked.  I guess when it is set to 1 desktop, it doesn't show
>>>> up or something.  
>>> Which seems logical behaviour to me. And the same happened here
>>> after configuring it.  
>> It is logical.  I knew I had to enable multiple desktops but since the
>> settings thing wasn't working, I couldn't figure out how to enable
>> it. When I did a google search, I saw where several folks said it was
>> gone which caused me great concern.  I got to much stuff going on
>> right now to redo my whole setup.
> The whining about it being "gone" in your search results is probably
> because an important (to some people) feature is gone -- you can't have
> different backgrounds and widgets on different virtual desktops within
> the same activity any more.  Apparently that feature was buggy in 
> KDE 4, though I never had problems with it, so they decided to ditch
> it.  They have a plan to re-implement it, but I have no idea how long
> it might take.
>
> Earlier you said the new desktop didn't pick up any of the old KDE 4
> settings;  I can't find that post, so I'm replying here.  For me, it
> picked up a few at least.  Under KDE 4, I had changed my "location"
> directories, e.g. the pictures and music directories, and Plasma 5
> kept my locations intact.  I also had a couple of scripts in
> autostart, and Plasma 5 is using them;  I'm not sure if it copied them
> to a new location or just left them where they were. 
>
>
>

I found a couple articles/blogs about it but once I got to the point
that it was gone, I just figured it was gone all together.  I read one
of them pretty well since it was the one that was most on point and
recently written and it sounded like multiple desktops was just gone
completely.  I just hope that person eventually runs up on that setting
so they can get it back.  Of course, that said, I could make the
activity thing work but it would be one more thing to get used to.  I
was getting there with it.  One day, I just may switch to it because the
multiple desktops may be gone one day.  It's been around a long time
already. 

On the fresh config, I noticed that too.  At first, it seemed to start
out fresh but while digging around and getting to some things that were
not on the top of my list, I found some settings that were the same as
before but doubtful they would be a default.  So, it seems that some
settings that they knew should work did get moved over.  Still tho,
given the huge change, I wonder if a fresh start may not be a better
plan?  I guess it depends on just how much was changed, which is likely
a LOT. 

After using a day or so now, it has some good points.  It seems faster
but can't quite put my finger on it.  While some things are different
they do work fairly well.  It's much better than KDE3 to KDE4 type thing
for sure.  Only really bad thing, I still get the plasma crash pop up
and I have to click for it to restart and close the pop up.  It's
annoying but at least it restarts and works just like before.  I did do
a emerge -e world and restart everything.  It still crashes at times so
it isn't some code mismatch.  I'm going to dig around and see if I can
find some unstable packages to run for a while and see if they have a fix. 

Overall tho, it works.  Different but works.  It is leaps and bounds
better than hal.  Don't get me started on hal.  ;-)

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Yuri K. Shatroff]

Hi guys,

12.04.2016 08:38, Dale wrote:
> Howdy,
>
> Well, I went and did it.

So I went and did it, too.
Thank gods I made a backup. After emerging plasma-meta which wasn't too 
easy because of dependency hell with eg networkmanager (Use-flag on 
plasma-meta was off but it turned out that another dependency 
(`plasma-workspace`) has a quite irrelevant use-flag (`geolocation`) 
which pulls in networkmanager) and ruby and all, I just got a black 
screen with a sole mouse pointer. When I click mouse buttons, it 
flickers and shows a glimpse of what the desktop should be, but then 
again switches to black screen. I tried to remove ~/.kde4 but nothing 
effectively changed.
Thanks but No thanks, I prefer to restore my backup. Not gonna repeat 
this at home.


-- 
Regards,
Yuri K. Shatroff

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Dale]

Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
> 12.04.2016 08:38, Dale wrote:
>> Howdy,
>>
>> Well, I went and did it.
>
> So I went and did it, too.
> Thank gods I made a backup. After emerging plasma-meta which wasn't
> too easy because of dependency hell with eg networkmanager (Use-flag
> on plasma-meta was off but it turned out that another dependency
> (`plasma-workspace`) has a quite irrelevant use-flag (`geolocation`)
> which pulls in networkmanager) and ruby and all, I just got a black
> screen with a sole mouse pointer. When I click mouse buttons, it
> flickers and shows a glimpse of what the desktop should be, but then
> again switches to black screen. I tried to remove ~/.kde4 but nothing
> effectively changed.
> Thanks but No thanks, I prefer to restore my backup. Not gonna repeat
> this at home.
>
>


I'm not sure on where you got the black screen.  If it is when X
started, did you switch to sddm or some other compatible display
manager?  The old kdm isn't supported and from what I read, doesn't
work.  That may explain the black screen. 

If it after you login, did you select the write session?  At first, I
wasn't sure which one to pick.  There is a couple at least KDE related. 
I think I had one that said plasma and one that said KDE wayland.  I
have seen wayland talked about and tried it but I got a black screen.  I
had to restart xdm to reset it.  Then I chose plasma from the list and
it worked.  So, make sure you pick the right one. 

I might add, I don't solely depend on KDE for my desktop.  I have
Fluxbox and some other one as a backup.  If for some reason KDE doesn't
work, I use one of the backup desktops to get help.  Sometimes, it can
be something simple to fix which is better than losing everything that
was already done.  For me, it doesn't matter what that backup is as long
as my web browser and email program will run and is usable.  If I have
that, I can google and if needed post on this list for help. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Yuri K. Shatroff]

14.04.2016 00:49, Dale wrote:
> Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:
>> Hi guys,
>>
>> 12.04.2016 08:38, Dale wrote:
>>> Howdy,
>>>
>>> Well, I went and did it.
>>
>> So I went and did it, too.
>> Thank gods I made a backup. After emerging plasma-meta which wasn't
>> too easy because of dependency hell with eg networkmanager (Use-flag
>> on plasma-meta was off but it turned out that another dependency
>> (`plasma-workspace`) has a quite irrelevant use-flag (`geolocation`)
>> which pulls in networkmanager) and ruby and all, I just got a black
>> screen with a sole mouse pointer. When I click mouse buttons, it
>> flickers and shows a glimpse of what the desktop should be, but then
>> again switches to black screen. I tried to remove ~/.kde4 but nothing
>> effectively changed.
>> Thanks but No thanks, I prefer to restore my backup. Not gonna repeat
>> this at home.
>>
>>

Hi Dale,

>
> I'm not sure on where you got the black screen.  If it is when X
> started, did you switch to sddm or some other compatible display
> manager?  The old kdm isn't supported and from what I read, doesn't
> work.  That may explain the black screen.

Sddm worked as expected, not to mention its veeery slow interface (for 
that nvidia drivers can be blamed, but whatever). The black screen 
appeared after logging in.

> If it after you login, did you select the write session?  At first, I
> wasn't sure which one to pick.  There is a couple at least KDE related.
> I think I had one that said plasma and one that said KDE wayland.  I
> have seen wayland talked about and tried it but I got a black screen.  I
> had to restart xdm to reset it.  Then I chose plasma from the list and
> it worked.  So, make sure you pick the right one.

There were three choices for the session. By default plasma was 
selected, this was the one that gave me the black screen. Others didn't 
plain work (returned to sddm).

> I might add, I don't solely depend on KDE for my desktop.  I have
> Fluxbox and some other one as a backup.  If for some reason KDE doesn't
> work, I use one of the backup desktops to get help.  Sometimes, it can
> be something simple to fix which is better than losing everything that
> was already done.  For me, it doesn't matter what that backup is as long
> as my web browser and email program will run and is usable.  If I have
> that, I can google and if needed post on this list for help.

Thanks for the hint, it's a good idea, I also had a couple of times when 
a working X would be helpful but failed to start due to kde related issues.

As for the new plasma stuff, I have almost all possible kde packages 
updated to 5.x (unstable), with the exception of kdm, kwin, settings and 
several others. My emerge of plasma-meta replaced these and additionally 
installed 78 packages, the larger half of which wasn't kde related 
(ruby, . What could have caused a black screen, I have no slightest idea 
and since it prevented me from work I gave it up.

> Dale
>
> :-)  :-)
>
>

-- 
Regards,
Yuri K. Shatroff

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[J. Roeleveld]

On Thursday, April 14, 2016 10:33:10 AM Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:
> 14.04.2016 00:49, Dale wrote:
> > Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:

> Hi Dale,
> 
> > I'm not sure on where you got the black screen.  If it is when X
> > started, did you switch to sddm or some other compatible display
> > manager?  The old kdm isn't supported and from what I read, doesn't
> > work.  That may explain the black screen.
> 
> Sddm worked as expected, not to mention its veeery slow interface (for
> that nvidia drivers can be blamed, but whatever). The black screen
> appeared after logging in.

Slow interface?
It works quite well on my laptop. Did you add the "sddm" user to the "video" 
group as mentioned in the upgrade guide?

> > If it after you login, did you select the write session?  At first, I
> > wasn't sure which one to pick.  There is a couple at least KDE related.
> > I think I had one that said plasma and one that said KDE wayland.  I
> > have seen wayland talked about and tried it but I got a black screen.  I
> > had to restart xdm to reset it.  Then I chose plasma from the list and
> > it worked.  So, make sure you pick the right one.
> 
> There were three choices for the session. By default plasma was
> selected, this was the one that gave me the black screen. Others didn't
> plain work (returned to sddm).

No idea here, logs?


--
Joost

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Dale]

J. Roeleveld wrote:
> On Thursday, April 14, 2016 10:33:10 AM Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:
>> 14.04.2016 00:49, Dale wrote:
>>> Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:
>> Hi Dale,
>>
>>> I'm not sure on where you got the black screen.  If it is when X
>>> started, did you switch to sddm or some other compatible display
>>> manager?  The old kdm isn't supported and from what I read, doesn't
>>> work.  That may explain the black screen.
>> Sddm worked as expected, not to mention its veeery slow interface (for
>> that nvidia drivers can be blamed, but whatever). The black screen
>> appeared after logging in.
> Slow interface?
> It works quite well on my laptop. Did you add the "sddm" user to the "video" 
> group as mentioned in the upgrade guide?
>
>
> --
> Joost
>
>

I missed that part somehow.  I just went and added it to the video group
here.  It worked tho. 

While at it, what is a command that lists all the users that are set up
on a system?  I tried a couple things but only found one that lists who
is currently logged in.  I would like them all listed. 

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[J. Roeleveld]

On Thursday, April 14, 2016 02:58:09 AM Dale wrote:
> J. Roeleveld wrote:
> > On Thursday, April 14, 2016 10:33:10 AM Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:
> >> 14.04.2016 00:49, Dale wrote:
> >>> Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:
> >> Hi Dale,
> >> 
> >>> I'm not sure on where you got the black screen.  If it is when X
> >>> started, did you switch to sddm or some other compatible display
> >>> manager?  The old kdm isn't supported and from what I read, doesn't
> >>> work.  That may explain the black screen.
> >> 
> >> Sddm worked as expected, not to mention its veeery slow interface (for
> >> that nvidia drivers can be blamed, but whatever). The black screen
> >> appeared after logging in.
> > 
> > Slow interface?
> > It works quite well on my laptop. Did you add the "sddm" user to the
> > "video" group as mentioned in the upgrade guide?
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > Joost
> 
> I missed that part somehow.  I just went and added it to the video group
> here.  It worked tho.
> 
> While at it, what is a command that lists all the users that are set up
> on a system?  I tried a couple things but only found one that lists who
> is currently logged in.  I would like them all listed.

You mean things like:

# getent passwd
# getent group

--
Joost

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Neil Bothwick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 444 bytes --]

On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 02:58:09 -0500, Dale wrote:

> While at it, what is a command that lists all the users that are set up
> on a system?  I tried a couple things but only found one that lists who
> is currently logged in.  I would like them all listed. 

cat /etc/passwd ;-)

Or if you want to get clever and give just a list of usernames

awk -F: '{print $1}' /etc/passwd


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Set phasers to extreme itching!

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Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[J. Roeleveld]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 678 bytes --]

On Thursday, April 14, 2016 09:03:08 AM Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 02:58:09 -0500, Dale wrote:
> > While at it, what is a command that lists all the users that are set up
> > on a system?  I tried a couple things but only found one that lists who
> > is currently logged in.  I would like them all listed.
> 
> cat /etc/passwd ;-)
> 
> Or if you want to get clever and give just a list of usernames
> 
> awk -F: '{print $1}' /etc/passwd

This doesn't work when using LDAP authentication or similar:

nas ~ # cat /etc/passwd | grep joost
nas ~ # getent passwd | grep joost
joost:x:1000:1000:System User:/home/joost:/bin/bash
nas ~ # 

--
Joost

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Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Neil Bothwick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 621 bytes --]

On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 10:14:14 +0200, J. Roeleveld wrote:

> > cat /etc/passwd ;-)
> > 
> > Or if you want to get clever and give just a list of usernames
> > 
> > awk -F: '{print $1}' /etc/passwd  
> 
> This doesn't work when using LDAP authentication or similar:
> 
> nas ~ # cat /etc/passwd | grep joost
> nas ~ # getent passwd | grep joost
> joost:x:1000:1000:System User:/home/joost:/bin/bash
> nas ~ # 

I know, but for Dale's purposes I knew it would be fine... and I didn't
need to double-check the use of cat :)


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Master of all I survey (at the moment, empty pizza boxes)

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Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Dale]

Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 02:58:09 -0500, Dale wrote:
>
>> While at it, what is a command that lists all the users that are set up
>> on a system?  I tried a couple things but only found one that lists who
>> is currently logged in.  I would like them all listed. 
> cat /etc/passwd ;-)
>
> Or if you want to get clever and give just a list of usernames
>
> awk -F: '{print $1}' /etc/passwd
>
>


It appears both yours and Joost's spit out the passwd file.  It works
tho.  I knew there was a way but couldn't remember what it was.  There
sure are a lot of them. 

Thanks to both.

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Alan McKinnon]

On 14/04/2016 09:58, Dale wrote:
> J. Roeleveld wrote:
>> On Thursday, April 14, 2016 10:33:10 AM Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:
>>> 14.04.2016 00:49, Dale wrote:
>>>> Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:
>>> Hi Dale,
>>>
>>>> I'm not sure on where you got the black screen.  If it is when X
>>>> started, did you switch to sddm or some other compatible display
>>>> manager?  The old kdm isn't supported and from what I read, doesn't
>>>> work.  That may explain the black screen.
>>> Sddm worked as expected, not to mention its veeery slow interface (for
>>> that nvidia drivers can be blamed, but whatever). The black screen
>>> appeared after logging in.
>> Slow interface?
>> It works quite well on my laptop. Did you add the "sddm" user to the "video"
>> group as mentioned in the upgrade guide?
>>
>>
>> --
>> Joost
>>
>>
>
> I missed that part somehow.  I just went and added it to the video group
> here.  It worked tho.
>
> While at it, what is a command that lists all the users that are set up
> on a system?  I tried a couple things but only found one that lists who
> is currently logged in.  I would like them all listed.

cat /etc/passwd

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Yuri K. Shatroff]

14.04.2016 10:43, J. Roeleveld wrote:
> On Thursday, April 14, 2016 10:33:10 AM Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:
>> 14.04.2016 00:49, Dale wrote:
>>> Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:
>
>> Hi Dale,
>>
>>> I'm not sure on where you got the black screen.  If it is when X
>>> started, did you switch to sddm or some other compatible display
>>> manager?  The old kdm isn't supported and from what I read, doesn't
>>> work.  That may explain the black screen.
>>
>> Sddm worked as expected, not to mention its veeery slow interface (for
>> that nvidia drivers can be blamed, but whatever). The black screen
>> appeared after logging in.
>
> Slow interface?
> It works quite well on my laptop. Did you add the "sddm" user to the "video"
> group as mentioned in the upgrade guide?

No I didn't because I had a much more blatant issue with the whole 
desktop than the 'SDDM display issues', I just didn't get to that. 
Thanks for pointing it out, next time I'll give it a try.

>>> If it after you login, did you select the write session?  At first, I
>>> wasn't sure which one to pick.  There is a couple at least KDE related.
>>> I think I had one that said plasma and one that said KDE wayland.  I
>>> have seen wayland talked about and tried it but I got a black screen.  I
>>> had to restart xdm to reset it.  Then I chose plasma from the list and
>>> it worked.  So, make sure you pick the right one.
>>
>> There were three choices for the session. By default plasma was
>> selected, this was the one that gave me the black screen. Others didn't
>> plain work (returned to sddm).
>
> No idea here, logs?

I didn't see anything relevant in Xorg.?.log (neither in messages) and 
since there was no kdm which usually tracks all KDE messages I didn't 
know where to look. Neither any new log files appeared.


-- 
Regards,
Yuri K. Shatroff

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Dale]

Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:
> 14.04.2016 10:43, J. Roeleveld wrote:
>> No idea here, logs?
>
> I didn't see anything relevant in Xorg.?.log (neither in messages) and
> since there was no kdm which usually tracks all KDE messages I didn't
> know where to look. Neither any new log files appeared.
>
>


Since kdm is gone, it's now sddm.log in the same place where kdm was. 
This is what my log looks like.  Yours should look something like it I
would think.


[23:29:06.330] (II) DAEMON: Initializing...
[23:29:06.334] (II) DAEMON: Starting...
[23:29:06.334] (II) DAEMON: Adding new display on vt 7 ...
[23:29:06.334] (II) DAEMON: Display server starting...
[23:29:06.334] (II) DAEMON: Running: /usr/bin/X -nolisten tcp -auth
/var/run/sddm/{baadb08a-2764-4aec-b839-6c2b7283ef79} -background none
-noreset -displayfd 17 vt7
[23:29:06.838] (II) DAEMON: Running display setup script 
"/usr/share/sddm/scripts/Xsetup"
[23:29:06.842] (II) DAEMON: Display server started.
[23:29:06.842] (II) DAEMON: Socket server starting...
[23:29:06.842] (II) DAEMON: Socket server started.
[23:29:06.842] (II) DAEMON: Greeter starting...
[23:29:06.842] (II) DAEMON: Adding cookie to
"/var/run/sddm/{baadb08a-2764-4aec-b839-6c2b7283ef79}"
[23:29:06.847] (II) HELPER: [PAM] Starting...
[23:29:06.847] (II) HELPER: [PAM] Authenticating...
[23:29:06.847] (II) HELPER: [PAM] returning.
[23:29:06.848] (II) DAEMON: Greeter session started successfully
[23:29:06.865] (II) DAEMON: Message received from greeter: Connect
[23:29:22.968] (II) DAEMON: Message received from greeter: Login
[23:29:22.969] (II) DAEMON: Reading from
"/usr/share/xsessions/plasma.desktop"
[23:29:22.969] (II) DAEMON: Session
"/usr/share/xsessions/plasma.desktop" selected, command: "/usr/bin/startkde"
[23:29:22.975] (II) HELPER: [PAM] Starting...
[23:29:22.975] (II) HELPER: [PAM] Authenticating...
[23:29:23.012] (II) HELPER: [PAM] Preparing to converse...
[23:29:23.012] (II) HELPER: [PAM] Conversation with 1 messages
[23:29:23.323] (II) HELPER: [PAM] returning.
[23:29:23.353] (II) DAEMON: Authenticated successfully
[23:29:23.360] (II) HELPER: Starting: "/usr/share/sddm/scripts/Xsession"
"/usr/bin/startkde"
[23:29:23.362] (II) HELPER: Adding cookie to "/home/dale/.Xauthority"
[23:29:23.366] (II) DAEMON: Session started
[23:29:23.384] (II) HELPER: [PAM] Ended.
[23:29:23.384] (II) DAEMON: Auth: sddm-helper exited successfully
[23:29:23.385] (II) DAEMON: Greeter stopped.


I think I got a complete section of it. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Yuri K. Shatroff]

14.04.2016 11:36, Dale wrote:
> Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:
>> 14.04.2016 10:43, J. Roeleveld wrote:
>>> No idea here, logs?
>>
>> I didn't see anything relevant in Xorg.?.log (neither in messages) and
>> since there was no kdm which usually tracks all KDE messages I didn't
>> know where to look. Neither any new log files appeared.
>>
>>
>
>
> Since kdm is gone, it's now sddm.log in the same place where kdm was.
> This is what my log looks like.  Yours should look something like it I
> would think.
>
>
> [23:29:06.330] (II) DAEMON: Initializing...
> [23:29:06.334] (II) DAEMON: Starting...
> [23:29:06.334] (II) DAEMON: Adding new display on vt 7 ...
> [23:29:06.334] (II) DAEMON: Display server starting...
> [23:29:06.334] (II) DAEMON: Running: /usr/bin/X -nolisten tcp -auth
> /var/run/sddm/{baadb08a-2764-4aec-b839-6c2b7283ef79} -background none
> -noreset -displayfd 17 vt7
> [23:29:06.838] (II) DAEMON: Running display setup script
> "/usr/share/sddm/scripts/Xsetup"
> [23:29:06.842] (II) DAEMON: Display server started.
> [23:29:06.842] (II) DAEMON: Socket server starting...
> [23:29:06.842] (II) DAEMON: Socket server started.
> [23:29:06.842] (II) DAEMON: Greeter starting...
> [23:29:06.842] (II) DAEMON: Adding cookie to
> "/var/run/sddm/{baadb08a-2764-4aec-b839-6c2b7283ef79}"
> [23:29:06.847] (II) HELPER: [PAM] Starting...
> [23:29:06.847] (II) HELPER: [PAM] Authenticating...
> [23:29:06.847] (II) HELPER: [PAM] returning.
> [23:29:06.848] (II) DAEMON: Greeter session started successfully
> [23:29:06.865] (II) DAEMON: Message received from greeter: Connect
> [23:29:22.968] (II) DAEMON: Message received from greeter: Login
> [23:29:22.969] (II) DAEMON: Reading from
> "/usr/share/xsessions/plasma.desktop"
> [23:29:22.969] (II) DAEMON: Session
> "/usr/share/xsessions/plasma.desktop" selected, command: "/usr/bin/startkde"
> [23:29:22.975] (II) HELPER: [PAM] Starting...
> [23:29:22.975] (II) HELPER: [PAM] Authenticating...
> [23:29:23.012] (II) HELPER: [PAM] Preparing to converse...
> [23:29:23.012] (II) HELPER: [PAM] Conversation with 1 messages
> [23:29:23.323] (II) HELPER: [PAM] returning.
> [23:29:23.353] (II) DAEMON: Authenticated successfully
> [23:29:23.360] (II) HELPER: Starting: "/usr/share/sddm/scripts/Xsession"
> "/usr/bin/startkde"
> [23:29:23.362] (II) HELPER: Adding cookie to "/home/dale/.Xauthority"
> [23:29:23.366] (II) DAEMON: Session started
> [23:29:23.384] (II) HELPER: [PAM] Ended.
> [23:29:23.384] (II) DAEMON: Auth: sddm-helper exited successfully
> [23:29:23.385] (II) DAEMON: Greeter stopped.
>
>
> I think I got a complete section of it.

Ah, I remember that one, but no, there wasn't anything related to black 
screens.
I believe it was some internal problem with nvidia drivers and plasma-5 
3D effects. This can explain the presence of mouse pointer and menus 
flickering-through the black screen.

I'll probably repeat that a while later when I have more time. That 
first post of mine was too emotional, I like to be on the bleeding edge, 
even despite such faux pas. Thanks everyone for your replies!

> Dale
>
> :-)  :-)
>

-- 
Regards,
Yuri K. Shatroff

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Gregory Woodbury]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 528 bytes --]

On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 4:21 AM, Yuri K. Shatroff <yks-uno@yandex.ru> wrote:

>
>> No idea here, logs?
>>
>
> I didn't see anything relevant in Xorg.?.log (neither in messages) and
> since there was no kdm which usually tracks all KDE messages I didn't know
> where to look. Neither any new log files appeared.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Yuri K. Shatroff
>

​There might be some clues in ~/.xsession-errors, especially if there are
security or bad handle errors.​

-- 
-- 
G.Wolfe Woodbury
redwolfe@gmail.com

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Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Mick]

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On Thursday 14 Apr 2016 11:21:39 Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:
> 14.04.2016 10:43, J. Roeleveld wrote:
> > On Thursday, April 14, 2016 10:33:10 AM Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:
> >> 14.04.2016 00:49, Dale wrote:
> >>> Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:
> >> Hi Dale,
> >> 
> >>> I'm not sure on where you got the black screen.  If it is when X
> >>> started, did you switch to sddm or some other compatible display
> >>> manager?  The old kdm isn't supported and from what I read, doesn't
> >>> work.  That may explain the black screen.
> >> 
> >> Sddm worked as expected, not to mention its veeery slow interface (for
> >> that nvidia drivers can be blamed, but whatever). The black screen
> >> appeared after logging in.
> > 
> > Slow interface?
> > It works quite well on my laptop. Did you add the "sddm" user to the
> > "video" group as mentioned in the upgrade guide?
> 
> No I didn't because I had a much more blatant issue with the whole 
> desktop than the 'SDDM display issues', I just didn't get to that. 
> Thanks for pointing it out, next time I'll give it a try.

I don't have NVidia or use the full plasma desktop environment on my laptop (I 
use enlightenment instead with a Radeon card). However, I have not added sddm 
to the video group and have not noticed anything undue in my logs.  I have 
however noticed that sddm is slightly slower than kdm.

Why is the video group needed?  What does it do?

-- 
Regards,
Mick

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[gentoo-user] Re: KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Jonathan Callen]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

On 04/14/2016 03:39 PM, Mick wrote:
> On Thursday 14 Apr 2016 11:21:39 Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:
>> 14.04.2016 10:43, J. Roeleveld wrote:
>>> On Thursday, April 14, 2016 10:33:10 AM Yuri K. Shatroff
>>> wrote:
>>>> 14.04.2016 00:49, Dale wrote:
>>>>> Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:
>>>> Hi Dale,
>>>> 
>>>>> I'm not sure on where you got the black screen.  If it is
>>>>> when X started, did you switch to sddm or some other
>>>>> compatible display manager?  The old kdm isn't supported
>>>>> and from what I read, doesn't work.  That may explain the
>>>>> black screen.
>>>> 
>>>> Sddm worked as expected, not to mention its veeery slow
>>>> interface (for that nvidia drivers can be blamed, but
>>>> whatever). The black screen appeared after logging in.
>>> 
>>> Slow interface? It works quite well on my laptop. Did you add
>>> the "sddm" user to the "video" group as mentioned in the
>>> upgrade guide?
>> 
>> No I didn't because I had a much more blatant issue with the
>> whole desktop than the 'SDDM display issues', I just didn't get
>> to that. Thanks for pointing it out, next time I'll give it a
>> try.
> 
> I don't have NVidia or use the full plasma desktop environment on
> my laptop (I use enlightenment instead with a Radeon card).
> However, I have not added sddm to the video group and have not
> noticed anything undue in my logs.  I have however noticed that
> sddm is slightly slower than kdm.
> 
> Why is the video group needed?  What does it do?
> 

The sddm user only needs to be in the video group if using the
proprietary NVIDIA driver, as it controls access to some low-level
device nodes created by that driver for the use of the NVIDIA driver's
userspace component.  It may be possible to use those device nodes to
perform certain privileged actions (the code behind them is in a
binary blob in the kernel with no source), so they are protected such
that only members of the video group can use them.

- -- 
Jonathan Callen
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Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Alan McKinnon]

On 14/04/2016 21:39, Mick wrote:
> On Thursday 14 Apr 2016 11:21:39 Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:
>> 14.04.2016 10:43, J. Roeleveld wrote:
>>> On Thursday, April 14, 2016 10:33:10 AM Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:
>>>> 14.04.2016 00:49, Dale wrote:
>>>>> Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:
>>>> Hi Dale,
>>>>
>>>>> I'm not sure on where you got the black screen.  If it is when X
>>>>> started, did you switch to sddm or some other compatible display
>>>>> manager?  The old kdm isn't supported and from what I read, doesn't
>>>>> work.  That may explain the black screen.
>>>>
>>>> Sddm worked as expected, not to mention its veeery slow interface (for
>>>> that nvidia drivers can be blamed, but whatever). The black screen
>>>> appeared after logging in.
>>>
>>> Slow interface?
>>> It works quite well on my laptop. Did you add the "sddm" user to the
>>> "video" group as mentioned in the upgrade guide?
>>
>> No I didn't because I had a much more blatant issue with the whole 
>> desktop than the 'SDDM display issues', I just didn't get to that. 
>> Thanks for pointing it out, next time I'll give it a try.
> 
> I don't have NVidia or use the full plasma desktop environment on my laptop (I 
> use enlightenment instead with a Radeon card). However, I have not added sddm 
> to the video group and have not noticed anything undue in my logs.  I have 
> however noticed that sddm is slightly slower than kdm.
> 
> Why is the video group needed?  What does it do?
> 

It's a simple group permission scheme to allow users access to advanced
features on the video card, like what compositing does.

cdrom has an equivalent, if you're in the group you can use the drive.
If not, you can't

-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Mick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 829 bytes --]

On Friday 15 Apr 2016 10:43:26 Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On 14/04/2016 21:39, Mick wrote:

> > I don't have NVidia or use the full plasma desktop environment on my
> > laptop (I use enlightenment instead with a Radeon card). However, I have
> > not added sddm to the video group and have not noticed anything undue in
> > my logs.  I have however noticed that sddm is slightly slower than kdm.
> > 
> > Why is the video group needed?  What does it do?
> 
> It's a simple group permission scheme to allow users access to advanced
> features on the video card, like what compositing does.

I'd understand this if sddm was using hardware acceleration to play some video 
or snazzy graphics while login in.  It looks rather static to me, unless it 
uses the card to scroll between user icons ... ? 

-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Dale]

Mick wrote:
> On Friday 15 Apr 2016 10:43:26 Alan McKinnon wrote:
>> On 14/04/2016 21:39, Mick wrote:
>>> I don't have NVidia or use the full plasma desktop environment on my
>>> laptop (I use enlightenment instead with a Radeon card). However, I have
>>> not added sddm to the video group and have not noticed anything undue in
>>> my logs.  I have however noticed that sddm is slightly slower than kdm.
>>>
>>> Why is the video group needed?  What does it do?
>> It's a simple group permission scheme to allow users access to advanced
>> features on the video card, like what compositing does.
> I'd understand this if sddm was using hardware acceleration to play some video 
> or snazzy graphics while login in.  It looks rather static to me, unless it 
> uses the card to scroll between user icons ... ? 
>


I think I posted this elsewhere.  I have a Nvidia card and use Nvidia's
drivers.  I didn't have sddm in the video group until someone else
posted about it.  I didn't see it in the howto I guess.  Point is, it
worked here.  It doesn't focus on the password field like it should but
it came up, let me login and then started up KDE like it should.  So,
I'm not sure what difference it is but for some at least, it works
without being in the video group.  Card info:

VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation GT216 [GeForce GT 220]
(rev a2)

Driver version:

x11-drivers/nvidia-drivers-340.96 

Maybe the age of my card is why it works for me.  I don't know.  I just
thought I would share the info in case it will help someone else with
this, maybe figure out why it works for some but not others. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Daniel Frey]

On 04/14/2016 12:33 AM, Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:
> 
> Sddm worked as expected, not to mention its veeery slow interface (for
> that nvidia drivers can be blamed, but whatever). The black screen
> appeared after logging in.
> 

I didn't have any problems with sddm, but that slow interface drove me
nuts. I was using nouveau, and I read against running that with nvidia
cards, so I installed the binary driver and I went from a very slow
interface (i.e. 5-10 seconds to respond to alt-tab, and on resume from
standby plasma would hang for 1-2 minutes) to crashing plasma every 3
minutes with the binary nvidia driver.

That coupled with an old version of Dolphin being installed creating
inconsistencies in the K menu made me revert and mask plasma for now.
It's far from ready for daily use.

It's not much use if it's that unstable. :-(

Dan

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 08:14:05 -0700, Daniel Frey wrote:

> I didn't have any problems with sddm, but that slow interface drove me
> nuts. I was using nouveau, and I read against running that with nvidia
> cards, so I installed the binary driver and I went from a very slow
> interface (i.e. 5-10 seconds to respond to alt-tab, and on resume from
> standby plasma would hang for 1-2 minutes) to crashing plasma every 3
> minutes with the binary nvidia driver.

I'm using nouveau and it takes a good second for the window list to
appear when pressing Alt-Tab for the first time in a session, but it's
pretty quick, but not instant, after that. It may depend on the type of
switcher you are using. I use Breeze, but some of the others are faster.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Anyone able to feel pain is trainable.

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Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Daniel Frey]

On 04/14/2016 09:02 AM, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 08:14:05 -0700, Daniel Frey wrote:
> 
>> I didn't have any problems with sddm, but that slow interface drove me
>> nuts. I was using nouveau, and I read against running that with nvidia
>> cards, so I installed the binary driver and I went from a very slow
>> interface (i.e. 5-10 seconds to respond to alt-tab, and on resume from
>> standby plasma would hang for 1-2 minutes) to crashing plasma every 3
>> minutes with the binary nvidia driver.
> 
> I'm using nouveau and it takes a good second for the window list to
> appear when pressing Alt-Tab for the first time in a session, but it's
> pretty quick, but not instant, after that. It may depend on the type of
> switcher you are using. I use Breeze, but some of the others are faster.
> 
> 

Hmm. On mine it wouldn't work, I had to keep holding alt for it to
register, eventually it would switch. Simply pressing alt+tab didn't do
anything on my desktop. This happened every time I wanted to switch to a
different window, and it got annoying very quickly.

I did try using different themes, it made no difference, plasma was
hanging (and crashing hard when I switched to the nvidia drivers.)

Dan

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Dale]

Howdy,

Same topic sort of so going to try the same thread first.  I've run up
on something weird but I'm not real sure where to start looking.  This
is what I do and what I get in return.  I have my desktop set to folder
view which gives me icons on my desktop.  When I click on a folder, it
is supposed to open Konqueror.  It does, it really does open konqueror. 
It opens it with dozens of instances and more than once went over 100
before I could kill the thing.  Obviously, I only need one instance. 

My question.  What program actually tells it to launch that first
instance?  In other words, when I click on a folder, what is it that
tells Konqueror to open?  I think I'd like to downgrade that package for
a bit.  It seems to have a bug, a really bad one with a lot of legs. 

How I got here.  Since the plasma thing was crashing so much, I thought
a unstable plasma package might have it fixed.  Well, it stopped
crashing after I keyworded a long list of packages and did the upgrade. 
Thing is, now I get this multiple instances of Konqueror instead of just
one.  Here is a list of those packages. 



=kde-plasma/plasma-meta-5.6.2
=kde-plasma/powerdevil-5.6.2 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kwidgetsaddons-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-plasma/ksysguard-5.6.2 ~amd64
=kde-plasma/ksshaskpass-5.6.2 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kbookmarks-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-plasma/libksysguard-5.6.2 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kconfig-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kitemmodels-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/attica-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-plasma/sddm-kcm-5.6.2 ~amd64
=kde-plasma/milou-5.6.2 ~amd64
=kde-plasma/khelpcenter-5.6.2 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kglobalaccel-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kwallet-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kservice-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-plasma/khotkeys-5.6.2 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kpeople-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/karchive-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-plasma/systemsettings-5.6.2 ~amd64
=kde-plasma/user-manager-5.6.2 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kdelibs4support-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-plasma/oxygen-5.6.2 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kxmlgui-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kdoctools-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kunitconversion-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-plasma/kdeplasma-addons-5.6.2 ~amd64
=kde-plasma/libkscreen-5.6.2 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kcmutils-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kpackage-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kcrash-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kidletime-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/plasma-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kcodecs-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/extra-cmake-modules-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kfilemetadata-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kdesignerplugin-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-plasma/kactivitymanagerd-5.6.2 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kparts-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/threadweaver-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-plasma/kwrited-5.6.2 ~amd64
=kde-plasma/plasma-workspace-wallpapers-5.6.2 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/knotifications-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kcompletion-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/ki18n-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/solid-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-plasma/kgamma-5.6.2 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kitemviews-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kcoreaddons-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-plasma/kwayland-integration-5.6.2 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/baloo-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kwindowsystem-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kio-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kauth-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kguiaddons-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kdewebkit-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kconfigwidgets-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kdbusaddons-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-plasma/kscreen-5.6.2 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/knotifyconfig-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kdeclarative-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/knewstuff-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/sonnet-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-plasma/plasma-desktop-5.6.2 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kjobwidgets-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/ktextwidgets-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-plasma/kde-gtk-config-5.6.2 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kinit-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kiconthemes-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-plasma/breeze-5.6.2 ~amd64
=kde-plasma/breeze-gtk-5.6.2 ~amd64
=kde-plasma/kinfocenter-5.6.2 ~amd64
=kde-plasma/plasma-workspace-5.6.2 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/krunner-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-plasma/kmenuedit-5.6.2 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kemoticons-5.21.0 ~amd64


I figure one of those packages is responsible for this but none of them
are obvious to me as to if it is the one or not.  Anyone have a clue
which one it could be? 

Thanks.

Dale

:-)  :-)