[gentoo-user] emerge world looking grim

[gentoo-user] emerge world looking grim

[Harry Putnam]

My gentoo OS is running on Openindiana (solaris) inside oracle's vbox.

It's been left setting for at least 4-5 months maybe a couple more.

After eix-sync, attempting an `emerge vuND world' comes up with so
many blocks, use flag changes and a variety of other bad news in
such proliferation... I'm thinking better to install from scratch with
latest ISO.

,----
| NOTE: The full mess can be viewed here:
| 
| zeus.jtan.com/~reader/vutxt/images/emerge_MassiveFailure-150823.txt
`----

I've been quite a long time gentoo user but last 2+ yrs only very
lightly.

I'm awful dumb for someone who has problably more than 15 yrs running
gentoo.

I wondered if there are some very new ISO's that would contain all
major changes in last year or so once I got the core installed and key
useflags/make.conf setup?

Can anyone advise me which iso to use?  And which profile to set for
general use in a vbox, hopefully to allow a `no sweat' emerge to a
full OS.

Re: [gentoo-user] emerge world looking grim

[Jc García]

2015-08-23 20:19 GMT-06:00 Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com>:
> My gentoo OS is running on Openindiana (solaris) inside oracle's vbox.
>

Why so much overhead for compiling, and not doing it bare-metal?

> It's been left setting for at least 4-5 months maybe a couple more.
>
> After eix-sync, attempting an `emerge vuND world' comes up with so
> many blocks, use flag changes and a variety of other bad news in
> such proliferation... I'm thinking better to install from scratch with
> latest ISO.
>

Did you really took your time to read that error message, You are
seeing problems, except where they are.

> ,----
> | NOTE: The full mess can be viewed here:
> |
> | zeus.jtan.com/~reader/vutxt/images/emerge_MassiveFailure-150823.txt
> `----
>
> I've been quite a long time gentoo user but last 2+ yrs only very
> lightly.
>
> I'm awful dumb for someone who has problably more than 15 yrs running
> gentoo.
>
Considering gentoo doesn't even have 15 years, I guess you are talking
to us from the future.

> I wondered if there are some very new ISO's that would contain all
> major changes in last year or so once I got the core installed and key
> useflags/make.conf setup?
>
> Can anyone advise me which iso to use?  And which profile to set for
> general use in a vbox, hopefully to allow a `no sweat' emerge to a
> full OS.

You should really step first at the documentation and then ask about
it, gentoo doesn't have 'new isos to install', it has stage3 tarballs.
you are trying to see gentoo as a binary distro.

Did you even tried to read the message before asking?

Didn't this told you anything? (From your log):
---
* LLVM-3.6.2 requires C++11-capable C++ compiler. Your current compiler
 * does not seem to support -std=c++11 option. Please upgrade your compiler
 * to gcc-4.7 or an equivalent version supporting C++11.
 * ERROR: sys-devel/llvm-3.6.2::gentoo failed (pretend phase):
 *   Currently active compiler does not support -std=c++11
---
gcc-config: error: could not run/locate 'i686-pc-linux-gnu-cpp'
 * ERROR: x11-base/xorg-server-1.17.2-r1::gentoo failed (pretend phase):
 *   Sorry, but gcc earlier than 4.0 will not work for xorg-server.
----

Upgrade your compiler and try again. But I should say from reading
your email you don't seem to have the attitude to be a gentoo user and
enjoy it, if this made think about reinstalling without even giving a
good read to that error message, I've using gentoo for ~2 years, and
even then 4.7 or 4.6, I remember was already a stable compiler, are
you sure you haven't upgraded in a significant more time than you say?

Re: [gentoo-user] emerge world looking grim

[Alec Ten Harmsel]

On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 10:19:42PM -0400, Harry Putnam wrote:
> My gentoo OS is running on Openindiana (solaris) inside oracle's vbox.
> 
> It's been left setting for at least 4-5 months maybe a couple more.
> 
> After eix-sync, attempting an `emerge vuND world' comes up with so
> many blocks, use flag changes and a variety of other bad news in
> such proliferation... I'm thinking better to install from scratch with
> latest ISO.
>
> ,----
> | NOTE: The full mess can be viewed here:
> | 
> | zeus.jtan.com/~reader/vutxt/images/emerge_MassiveFailure-150823.txt
> `----

No, this really shouldn't be that bad. Look at the list of updates and
apply certain updates first. glibc and gcc should probably be updated
first, so just run:

    emerge -uDN1 glibc

Since gcc-config could not find gcc 4.7, it is marked as stable, and
emerge was not trying to install it, you must have a version hard-coded
in `/var/lib/portage/world`. For now, to upgrade gcc you can just grab
the newest version:

    emerge --oneshot gcc

From then on, it should go relatively smoothly, since emerge was
handling all of the blockers.

> Can anyone advise me which iso to use?  And which profile to set for
> general use in a vbox, hopefully to allow a `no sweat' emerge to a
> full OS.

As Jc Garcia mentioned, Gentoo is not a `no sweat' distro.

Alec

Re: [gentoo-user] emerge world looking grim

[Rich Freeman]

On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 10:19 PM, Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> wrote:
> Can anyone advise me which iso to use?  And which profile to set for
> general use in a vbox, hopefully to allow a `no sweat' emerge to a
> full OS.

As others have pointed out you probably just need to update your gcc
and all will be well, or if you have it updated check gcc-config -l to
make sure you're using the latest version.

However, I did want to point out something else.  Gentoo isos don't
actually contain any packages.  They're nothing more than boot disks.
You can install Gentoo from an Ubuntu iso as easily as from a Gentoo
iso, and the Gentoo isos don't even boot on EFI.  The software is all
in the stage3.  However, I wouldn't really try to overwrite your
install with a stage3 at this point as it doesn't actually look like
you have any serious problems.  You  just need to do a bit of
housecleaning.

And a note to everybody else on the list:  take it easy on the poor
guy.  People used to other distros are used to doing things like
blowing away their installs every other year with a fresh install.
Release-based distros get people used to this kind of nonsense, and
the idea that FOSS comes on a shiny DVD.  Portage's error messages
don't always help in this regard.  Of course any Gentoo user has to be
willing to take the time to learn some of the nuts and bolts to keep
things running, but when it is obvious somebody doesn't understand
what they're doing we can educate rather than just point it out.

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] emerge world looking grim

[Alec Ten Harmsel]

On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 08:41:48AM -0400, Rich Freeman wrote:
> And a note to everybody else on the list:  take it easy on the poor
> guy.  People used to other distros are used to doing things like
> blowing away their installs every other year with a fresh install.
> Release-based distros get people used to this kind of nonsense, and
> the idea that FOSS comes on a shiny DVD.  Portage's error messages
> don't always help in this regard.  Of course any Gentoo user has to be
> willing to take the time to learn some of the nuts and bolts to keep
> things running, but when it is obvious somebody doesn't understand
> what they're doing we can educate rather than just point it out.

That's fine, we could all be a bit nicer. That said, if someone wants a
distro that is fast and easy to install (which is perfectly valid to
want; I use plenty of them on a daily basis), it is important to point
out that Gentoo is neither fast nor extremely easy to install.

Alec

Re: [gentoo-user] emerge world looking grim

[Alan Mackenzie]

Hello, Harry,

Long time, no see!

On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 10:19:42PM -0400, Harry Putnam wrote:
> My gentoo OS is running on Openindiana (solaris) inside oracle's vbox.

> It's been left setting for at least 4-5 months maybe a couple more.

> After eix-sync, attempting an `emerge vuND world' comes up with so
> many blocks, use flag changes and a variety of other bad news in
> such proliferation... I'm thinking better to install from scratch with
> latest ISO.

I know the feeling.  When the same thing happened to me (my system got
into a mess because I was running XFCE which was too dependent on
gnome-2; when gnome-3 became stable, the demons of hades were let
loose, and I tried a couple of times, half-heartedly, to update), I told
myself to stop and think.

I could spend days fighting with use flags and conflicts, or I could
spend a few days reinstalling.  In the end I reinstalled (using the old
system (rather than an ISO image) to do the initial stages.  It took me
about a week, compared with about a month the first time I seriously
installed Gentoo.  "Installation" here means getting everything up and
running, including X with destop manager, printing, sound, email server
and client, ....

> ,----
> | NOTE: The full mess can be viewed here:
> | 
> | zeus.jtan.com/~reader/vutxt/images/emerge_MassiveFailure-150823.txt
> `----

> I've been quite a long time gentoo user but last 2+ yrs only very
> lightly.

> I'm awful dumb for someone who has problably more than 15 yrs running
> gentoo.

I doubt that!  But if I were only using Gentoo lightly for an extended
period, I'd forget a _lot_.

> I wondered if there are some very new ISO's that would contain all
> major changes in last year or so once I got the core installed and key
> useflags/make.conf setup?

That's not the way Gentoo works - (what was that I was saying about
forgetting things?).  The Gentoo ISO is really just an installation
environment to boot up into, one with enough power for you to be able to
download and install a stage 3 into which you reboot, then really get
going with configuring the system, and installing further stuff, etc.
All the new stuff from the last few months is in portage (which you get
with $ emerge --sync, and so on).

> Can anyone advise me which iso to use?  And which profile to set for
> general use in a vbox, hopefully to allow a `no sweat' emerge to a
> full OS.

Painful though it might seem, I'd suggest you go back to the Gentoo
handbook and do a bit of revision.  It's been moved to the Gentoo wiki
at https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:Main_Page.

I'd recommend you then just to reinstall.  Remembering my fights with
stupid error messages from emerge, and so on, I wish I'd just
reinstalled months earlier than I did.

Whatever you end up doing, all the best!

-- 
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).

[gentoo-user] Re: emerge world looking grim

[Harry Putnam]

Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> writes:

> I'd recommend you then just to reinstall.  Remembering my fights with
> stupid error messages from emerge, and so on, I wish I'd just
> reinstalled months earlier than I did.

Thanks for the frank suggestions and noted lack unix hero
talk... hehe.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: emerge world looking grim

[Alec Ten Harmsel]

On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 09:35:36AM -0400, Harry Putnam wrote:
> Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> writes:
> 
> > I'd recommend you then just to reinstall.  Remembering my fights with
> > stupid error messages from emerge, and so on, I wish I'd just
> > reinstalled months earlier than I did.
> 
> Thanks for the frank suggestions and noted lack unix hero
> talk... hehe.

I personally think that updating glibc and gcc, then continuing with the
rest of the system update is the easiest path forward. You won't lose
your portage config, it will probably be a little bit faster, and it
requires a lot less manual intervention (running a handful of commands
vs. following the handbook)..

Alec

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: emerge world looking grim

[Rich Freeman]

On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 9:39 AM, Alec Ten Harmsel
<alec@alectenharmsel.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 09:35:36AM -0400, Harry Putnam wrote:
>> Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> writes:
>>
>> > I'd recommend you then just to reinstall.  Remembering my fights with
>> > stupid error messages from emerge, and so on, I wish I'd just
>> > reinstalled months earlier than I did.
>>
>> Thanks for the frank suggestions and noted lack unix hero
>> talk... hehe.
>
> I personally think that updating glibc and gcc, then continuing with the
> rest of the system update is the easiest path forward. You won't lose
> your portage config, it will probably be a little bit faster, and it
> requires a lot less manual intervention (running a handful of commands
> vs. following the handbook)..
>

Agree. I probably get update issues of this complexity at least
annually.  I couldn't tell you when I installed my stage3 on this box,
but it was a LONG time ago and I'm constantly cleaning up /etc cruft
from things being moved around.

I would not rush to just reinstall a gentoo box unless you get really
stuck, or this is part of a configuration management workflow (which I
fully encourage - there is something to be said for blowing away your
install and reinstalling every time you do a package update, just to
demonstrate that you're able to do it from a disaster-recovery
standpoint).

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: emerge world looking grim

[wraeth]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

On 24/08/15 23:59, Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 9:39 AM, Alec Ten Harmsel 
> <alec@alectenharmsel.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 09:35:36AM -0400, Harry Putnam wrote:
>>> Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> writes:
>>> 
>>>> I'd recommend you then just to reinstall.  Remembering my
>>>> fights with stupid error messages from emerge, and so on, I
>>>> wish I'd just reinstalled months earlier than I did.
>>> 
>>> Thanks for the frank suggestions and noted lack unix hero 
>>> talk... hehe.
>> 
>> I personally think that updating glibc and gcc, then continuing
>> with the rest of the system update is the easiest path forward.
>> You won't lose your portage config, it will probably be a little
>> bit faster, and it requires a lot less manual intervention
>> (running a handful of commands vs. following the handbook)..
>> 
> 
> Agree. I probably get update issues of this complexity at least 
> annually.  I couldn't tell you when I installed my stage3 on this
> box, but it was a LONG time ago and I'm constantly cleaning up /etc
> cruft from things being moved around.
> 
> I would not rush to just reinstall a gentoo box unless you get
> really stuck, or this is part of a configuration management
> workflow (which I fully encourage - there is something to be said
> for blowing away your install and reinstalling every time you do a
> package update, just to demonstrate that you're able to do it from
> a disaster-recovery standpoint).
> 

+1

There's also the fact that working through conflicts like this is also
an educational experience in itself, making it easier for the next time.

- -- 
wraeth <wraeth@wraeth.id.au>
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: emerge world looking grim

[Alan McKinnon]

On 24/08/2015 15:35, Harry Putnam wrote:
> Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> writes:
> 
>> I'd recommend you then just to reinstall.  Remembering my fights with
>> stupid error messages from emerge, and so on, I wish I'd just
>> reinstalled months earlier than I did.
> 
> Thanks for the frank suggestions and noted lack unix hero
> talk... hehe.

The other Alan Mac chipping in :-)

I know how you feel, I get it too when confronted with Python Web
frameworks. Very confusing stuff to this old brain.

I understand portage's magic, it makes sense to me and I can see through
the spell.
I don't understand web framework magic and can't see through the spell.

<sigh>


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] emerge world looking grim

[Alan McKinnon]

On 24/08/2015 15:17, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> Hello, Harry,
> 
> Long time, no see!
> 
> On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 10:19:42PM -0400, Harry Putnam wrote:
>> My gentoo OS is running on Openindiana (solaris) inside oracle's vbox.
> 
>> It's been left setting for at least 4-5 months maybe a couple more.
> 
>> After eix-sync, attempting an `emerge vuND world' comes up with so
>> many blocks, use flag changes and a variety of other bad news in
>> such proliferation... I'm thinking better to install from scratch with
>> latest ISO.
> 
> I know the feeling.  When the same thing happened to me (my system got
> into a mess because I was running XFCE which was too dependent on
> gnome-2; when gnome-3 became stable, the demons of hades were let
> loose, and I tried a couple of times, half-heartedly, to update), I told
> myself to stop and think.
> 
> I could spend days fighting with use flags and conflicts, or I could
> spend a few days reinstalling.  In the end I reinstalled (using the old
> system (rather than an ISO image) to do the initial stages.  It took me
> about a week, compared with about a month the first time I seriously
> installed Gentoo.  "Installation" here means getting everything up and
> running, including X with destop manager, printing, sound, email server
> and client, ....


At first glance it does look like maybe a reinstall would be better. But
in this case, that's not true. Looking over the list of packages to be
updated, there are 3 general classes of things:

1. Regular updates
2. A whole whack of rebuilds
3. A perl upgrade from 5.20 to 5.22

#1 is routine. Press enter, and make does it's thing
#2 looks scary, but in the old days we'd have to do the updates then let
revdep-rebuild catch the inconsistencies, and rebuild those. Modern
portage has some magic code to fold everything into the main emerge
world step. So just press Enter and make does it's thing
#3 can be very confusing. With 5.22, upstream moved many Perl packages
into the core Perl codebase, so all such installed packages (and all of
us have many of them) need to uninstall perl-core/<package> and replace
it with virtual/perl-<package>. Portage normally deals with this
transparently, but the output can be a little too verbose sometimes, and
takes some decent brainpower to figure out what is really going on.

There's also some blockers in that list ([blocks b  ]), but they are all
soft (lower case b) so portage should take those in it's stride and just
fix it with no intervention.


Harry's real problem as many have noted is that his gcc config is not
valid. But, portage can't tell him that. It started the merge, and
handed control over to the next app, which portage can't make sense of
as it all happened outside portage's control. Result: a wall of text on
the screen, right after the wall of text of 195 things to be rebuilt and
a huge list of stuff causing other stuff to be needed to be rebuilt!

I suppose those ebuilds that are sensitive to gcc versions could have a
check built in to check the version before starting and then print a
sane error message that portage CAN control and make sense of.

Either way, "gcc-config -l" is what Harry needs to run first, and make
his default compiler 4.7 or later. With that out of the way, emerge
should proceed normally apart from taking a while to get through it. He
might have perl issues afterwards and need to run perl-cleaner.

The real problem is how do I know all this, and Harry did spot it? Well,
building a source distro comes in at a much lower level than a binary
one, and it does take a good large dose of experience, knowledge and
plain old luck to figure out what is really going on. These days portage
is very good at doing the right thing (it still sucks at a human level
in it's output...) and today Harry just got really unlucky.

So yeah, reinstall is probably not the better option here.


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

[gentoo-user] Re: emerge world looking grim

[Harry Putnam]

Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> writes:

Working thru all the guff with all you posters patient help would
probably have been the best but between posting and seeing answers
(suring the morning in the wee hours). I jumped stupid and starting
uninstalling some of the blockers. 

So, I've made the mess considerably worse... maybe unsolvable since I
have no gcc now and so no way to grind out the builds.... plus other
truly boneheaded uninstalls that appear to have rendered my system
unusable .... just like the little warning says when you
   gentoo -vC pkg ....... wheeeeee.

I'm pretty sure at this point... I best to get a re-install going.

Also it may help some of you posters to know that this install was not
fully developed and an in common use OS anyway....A reinstall will loose
nothing of any importance.

Whatever is there of importance would be in /home /etc/ and maybe /var
so I've rsynced them to my current Solaris desktop and will have any
needed files to use later after the reinstall has progressed to a
higher level.

Thank you all for the suggestions they are most instructive and my
notes from them should prove useful down the road.

PS - Its coming back to me how gentoo is installed with the stage3 and
portage downloads.

Again, thanks for your patience

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: emerge world looking grim

[Alan McKinnon]

On 24/08/2015 16:46, Harry Putnam wrote:
> Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> writes:
> 
> Working thru all the guff with all you posters patient help would
> probably have been the best but between posting and seeing answers
> (suring the morning in the wee hours). I jumped stupid and starting
> uninstalling some of the blockers. 
> 
> So, I've made the mess considerably worse... maybe unsolvable since I
> have no gcc now and so no way to grind out the builds.... plus other
> truly boneheaded uninstalls that appear to have rendered my system
> unusable .... just like the little warning says when you
>    gentoo -vC pkg ....... wheeeeee.


Ah yes. That was a supremely thick move on your part :-)  [1]

> I'm pretty sure at this point... I best to get a re-install going.

It can be fixed. If you want the learning experience, here's how you
would do it:

It isn't the dead-end it first appears. Yes, you do need a compiler to
compile anything (including any version of the compiler itself), and now
you don't have one. Solution: figure out a way to get one!

Maybe your make.conf is set up to create binary packages, the variable
is PKGDIR. Look in that directory for gcc, and emerge it (yes, you can
emerge a tarball directly). Repeat for all important packages you
unmerged. Now you have a compiler, because you don't need a compiler to
untar a tarball.

Or you can get a binary package from anywhere else you trust.

Now, if you were to have unmerged python, or tar, bzip2 - then that is a
bigger problem. Boot off a rescue CD, mount your regular system
somewhere and untar into that location. Assuming of course that your
rescue CD has the tools you need like tar and bzip2 (most of what is in
@system)


> 
> Also it may help some of you posters to know that this install was not
> fully developed and an in common use OS anyway....A reinstall will loose
> nothing of any importance.
> 
> Whatever is there of importance would be in /home /etc/ and maybe /var
> so I've rsynced them to my current Solaris desktop and will have any
> needed files to use later after the reinstall has progressed to a
> higher level.
> 
> Thank you all for the suggestions they are most instructive and my
> notes from them should prove useful down the road.
> 
> PS - Its coming back to me how gentoo is installed with the stage3 and
> portage downloads.
> 
> Again, thanks for your patience

Either way, you should be back up and running come Thursday latest :-)
Hey, this is Gentoo, here we like watching gcc outpt scroll by for
hours/days at a time.


[1] Reminds me of an old joke:

Q: What's the second worst sound you can hear a sysadmin make?
A: Uh-oh
Q: And the worst sound?
A: Oops....

Looks like you had an oops moment there


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: emerge world looking grim

[Jeremi Piotrowski]

On Mon, 24 Aug 2015, Alan McKinnon wrote:

> 
> Or you can get a binary package from anywhere else you trust.
>

My personal favourite: chroot into a stage3 and quickpkg gcc. Then copy to
your install and voila. 

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: emerge world looking grim

[Alan McKinnon]

On 24/08/2015 18:49, Jeremi Piotrowski wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Aug 2015, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> 
>>
>> Or you can get a binary package from anywhere else you trust.
>>
> 
> My personal favourite: chroot into a stage3 and quickpkg gcc. Then copy to
> your install and voila. 
> 

I knew there was a way to do it, just couldn't remember how. So I
decided to not run the "open_mouth && insert_foot" scripts hardwired in
my brain :-)

Thanks!

-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: emerge world looking grim

[Dale]

Alan McKinnon wrote:
> [1] Reminds me of an old joke:
>
> Q: What's the second worst sound you can hear a sysadmin make?
> A: Uh-oh
> Q: And the worst sound?
> A: Oops....
>
> Looks like you had an oops moment there

I have quite a few of those Uh oh moments. I think top on my list tho is
oh crap.  :-( 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

[gentoo-user] Re: emerge world looking grim

[Harry Putnam]

Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> writes:

> Either way, you should be back up and running come Thursday latest :-)
> Hey, this is Gentoo, here we like watching gcc outpt scroll by for
> hours/days at a time.

Hehe ... It did take a while.... but partly because of some trouble
vbox itself... but mainly due to seriously thinning content in the noggin.

Up and running  since earlier today and currently grinding away at the
LXDE meta package.

Good basic console system in place now.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: emerge world looking grim

[Rich Freeman]

On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 10:46 AM, Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> wrote:
> So, I've made the mess considerably worse... maybe unsolvable since I
> have no gcc now and so no way to grind out the builds.... plus other
> truly boneheaded uninstalls that appear to have rendered my system
> unusable .... just like the little warning says when you
>    gentoo -vC pkg ....... wheeeeee.
>

Uh, not to drag you through the mud, but what gave you the idea to try
that?  I'm mainly interested so that we can go fix it if there is some
document that is leading people astray.

The suggestion was to check gcc-config -l, and then set a recent
version of gcc if it isn't already selected.  That should be the
correct fix, though you might need to install a newer gcc version.
You don't need to use emerge -C to do any of that.  That command is
one of those "I know what I'm doing" commands which will happily mess
up your system.

At this point your simplest solution is to create a binary package of
whatever it is you got rid of and re-install it, but that is going to
be a lot more complex than the minor issue you were having before.
Your email is pretty light on details, so I don't even know what it
was that you uninstalled.

I'd suggest not doing stuff like this in the future.  I can pretty
much guarantee that emerge output like the one you posted will happen
to you a few times a year and is fairly routine if you have a system
with many packages on it.  Granted, you won't have quite as much to
deal with if you update daily/weekly, but still, you probably
shouldn't go into panic mode everytime portage wants help with
something because it happens fairly often.

-- 
Rich

[gentoo-user] Re: emerge world looking grim

[Harry Putnam]

Rich Freeman <rich0@gentoo.org> writes:

> I'd suggest not doing stuff like this in the future. 

I got a bigger laugh out of this than anything I've seen for a while.

Such a mild statement... covering seriously demented mistakes.

[gentoo-user] Re: emerge world looking grim

[Harry Putnam]

Rich Freeman <rich0@gentoo.org> writes:

> Uh, not to drag you through the mud, but what gave you the idea to try
> that?  I'm mainly interested so that we can go fix it if there is some
> document that is leading people astray.

I seriously doubt there is any such document ... My troubles stemmed
from the exact opposite... not consulting enough documents.
And heavy handed tendency to just jump right in without much
research. 

The only thing I can say on my own behalf is that there was once a
time when it wasn't so far fetched to start emerge -vC 'ing stuff.

Yrs ago gentoo was not yet so complex as it is today.  Ditto for the
other linux's

I'm sure my way will smooth out immensely with just a little immersion
back into gentoo as old memories are kicked into life (At least I hope
so ...)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: emerge world looking grim

[Jeremi Piotrowski]

On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 12:10 AM, Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> wrote:
> The only thing I can say on my own behalf is that there was once a
> time when it wasn't so far fetched to start emerge -vC 'ing stuff.

Many thing's can be removed with `emerge -C` and recovered from, but I doubt
unmerging packages in @system was ever a well supported operation...

[gentoo-user] Re: emerge world looking grim

[Harry Putnam]

Jeremi Piotrowski <jeremi.piotrowski@gmail.com> writes:

> On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 12:10 AM, Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> wrote:
>> The only thing I can say on my own behalf is that there was once a
>> time when it wasn't so far fetched to start emerge -vC 'ing stuff.
>
> Many thing's can be removed with `emerge -C` and recovered from, but I doubt
> unmerging packages in @system was ever a well supported operation...

Note: Did I say it was `well supported'. `Not far fetched' is a good ways
from `well supported'...

Far I recall that little warning about ruining your system has ALWAYS
been there.

[gentoo-user] Re: emerge world looking grim

[James]

Harry Putnam <reader <at> newsguy.com> writes:


> My gentoo OS is running on Openindiana (solaris) inside oracle's vbox.

Hello Harry. Gentoo has the handbook for it's main install. A bit of a drag
but good for for a refresher or leaning.

Rich put up an excellent set of VM gentoo install instructins [1]:

> It's been left setting for at least 4-5 months maybe a couple more.
> After eix-sync, attempting an `emerge vuND world' comes up with so
> many blocks, use flag changes and a variety of other bad news in
> such proliferation... I'm thinking better to install from scratch with
> latest ISO.

You can fight through those problems; and that will most likely be the
easiest method to bring your system current.

Some of the gentoo versions for specific usage, have their own installer.
Like PENTOO [2] ,  LILBLUE [3] and then many folks use 'calculate linux'
when they require an installation medium [4]. It can be migrated to
a gentoo install.


There are several efforts to create other gentoo installations, but
they are alpha at the moment.


hth,
James


[1]
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VJlJyY
LTZScta9a81xgKOIBjYsG3_VfxxmUSxG23Uxg/edit?pli=1

[2] http://www.pentoo.ch/download/

[3] https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Hardened_uClibcLilblue#Installation

[4] http://www.calculate-linux.org/boards/15/topics/25561

http://www.calculate-linux.org/main/en/cld

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: emerge world looking grim

[Rich Freeman]

On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 9:46 AM, James <wireless@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
>
> Hello Harry. Gentoo has the handbook for it's main install. A bit of a drag
> but good for for a refresher or leaning.
>
> Rich put up an excellent set of VM gentoo install instructins [1]:

My main goals with those notes (I wouldn't call them instructions at
this point) were to cover:
1.  Btrfs raid1, which many seemed to be struggling with.
2.  dracut, which many also seemed to be struggling with.
3.  Integrated systemd+openrc instructions.  I found that the
differences were actually very minor in my guide, while the
distinction seems much bigger in the handbook.

My next steps are to clean this all up into a blog article (less
notes, more actual instructions), and then probably merge these into
the handbook.  The latter will take a bit more effort as I don't want
to be disruptive, but I think that some of our defaults are outdated.
In particular I really think the handbook should present dracut as the
mainstream initramfs solution and genkernel's initramfs as an
alternative.  I have no issues with using genkernel to build a kernel,
though you'd need to use the option to run menuconfig and pick your
init.

I'm not proposing making systemd the default.  If you follow the guide
in the order I've written it using systemd vs openrc really doesn't
change much at all besides what profile you use, your kernel settings,
and one line in your grub config.  And that was a big part of why I
wrote this guide.  My hunch from numerous container installs is that a
streamlined systemd install looks almost the same as an openrc install
and by merging the instructions you can make either path easy to
follow while leaving all the choice in the hands of the user.  The
main challenge I see with integrating systemd as the numerous places
where the instructions have you run rc-update and instead you'd need
systemctl enable.  It is a trivial change, but my main concern is
doing it in a way that doesn't add confusion or bloat.  Many distros
actually use a wrapper of some kind so that they can have one
procedure for either, but I don't care for that.  One of the things I
really like about Gentoo is that we stick to upstream and don't do
what Debian does like wrap systemd wrappers around bash init scripts.

In any case, the notes as they currently stand are not something I'd
recommend to a new user.  They're fine for experienced users looking
for the "short version."  When I get them integrated into the handbook
I think it will be an overall improvement and usable for new users.

-- 
Rich

[gentoo-user] Re: emerge world looking grim

[James]

Rich Freeman <rich0 <at> gentoo.org> writes:

> In any case, the notes as they currently stand are not something I'd
> recommend to a new user.  They're fine for experienced users looking
> for the "short version."  When I get them integrated into the handbook
> I think it will be an overall improvement and usable for new users.

Harry indicated he had been using Gentoo a long time. Harry was
looking for "iso" or what I interpreted as easy installation choices.
I spend the weekend updated some vintage boxes from around 2010 as the
last update. Educational to say the least.  distcc is need and a better
massive archive of the /distfiles/ as I wasted more time trying to
find over versions of things like gnuconfig and such. Other that
that, I just removed KDE and updated the portage and @system. I did
drop the profile to the simplest version I could and only updated
critical codes like bash, python and gcc. Actually, it was very 
easy and could be "automated" too. Just wait until it's about 8 months
old on the snapshot updates and then wait (forever) for a current emerge
--sync......

Harry's  description of the VM details  was unclear
so that motivated me to put your instructions up as a reference for 
Harry to read. I understand it's not finished, but VM installs of Gentoo
are interesting to lots of folks to read about, even if they are 
not quite ready to recommend to a noob. Harry is not a noob, probably just 
busy and a bit gentoo_lazy like many of us. I remember Harry and he
seemed 'confident' with gentoo before...... 

I agree with all you have said, and it sounds good; particularly the
part on keeping openrc or systemd choices simple to understand and follow
regardless of the choice a user makes. This duality (systemd and openrc)
is keenly interesting at this time in linux evolution and Gentoo is
uniquely strong in this consternation  dichotomy. 


Your plans do sound very attractive. I'm ultimately a believer in that
we need to have a matrix of installation options based on refinement
of the those earlier 'PreQualifying Questions' I posted. I think I'm
going to purse that, so that many different installation semantics
for gentoo and gentoo derivatives close to the tree are available for
all to enjoy. There are other works progressing on installation semantics
and for me, this is all very exciting. I shall await your postings
for further testing. Are you going to roll out some "notes" on putting
raid-1::btrfs onto HD? Or just the VM install?


I think the more different ways folks approach installing Gentoo, the better
and it is quite educational to look at the different approaches in the
various install semantics for gentoo.  I'm personally looking forward to the
'stage-4' offerings and have been playing around myself with clonezilla [1].


I, and many others certainly do appreciate your work and explanations
and perspective on installing gentoo. I do agree that genkernel is dated too.

James

[1] http://clonezilla.org/

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: emerge world looking grim

[Rich Freeman]

On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 11:36 AM, James <wireless@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> Are you going to roll out some "notes" on putting
> raid-1::btrfs onto HD? Or just the VM install?
>

The notes should work just fine for installing that on an HD.  Is
there something you found missing in them?

The only thing they aren't targeted at is EFI.  I'd need to mess with
that a bit in a VM as I do not have any EFI hardware other than my
chromebook, which seems fussier than most as far as what it boots.

-- 
Rich

[gentoo-user] Re: emerge world looking grim

[James]

Rich Freeman <rich0 <at> gentoo.org> writes:


> > Are you going to roll out some "notes" on putting
> > raid-1::btrfs onto HD? Or just the VM install?

Sure. What about an example fstab using names and UUIDs
at the same time, or and fstab with UUID and one with labels
if they cannot be used simultaneously in the same fstab.

(boot root and swap only :: just to keep it simple)


> The notes should work just fine for installing that on an HD.  Is
> there something you found missing in them?

I'm working on setting up a bunch of old boxes to test installations
on actual hardware. Part of that is more AC and UPS capacity in
the lab. Wiring  and more breakers (AFCI/GFI) so the project has 
grown and there are other non related HW issues I'm working on too.



> The only thing they aren't targeted at is EFI.  I'd need to mess with
> that a bit in a VM as I do not have any EFI hardware other than my
> chromebook, which seems fussier than most as far as what it boots.


Yep. Previously we have discuss MBR/EFI  grub1-grub2,  gpt  (>< wT disks)
and tools to effect the (/boot/root/swap). And then there
is the need for a quick or unattended install semantic, before
I can rigorously  test those many conflicts. I'll start a new thread
when I'm ready. Best guess is a few weeks.


thx,
James