From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from lists.gentoo.org ([140.105.134.102] helo=robin.gentoo.org) by nuthatch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E2uJA-0003Ug-EJ for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 17:24:05 +0000 Received: from robin.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.4/8.13.4) with SMTP id j7AHMM7L009503; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 17:22:22 GMT Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.195]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j7AHGQGl020543 for ; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 17:16:27 GMT Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id x7so116832nzc for ; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 10:17:08 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=mQ++aOUbeP7Qh+OW5ek7nbSxAwIqXYo0DGlVc2B0ZCvjWCqfkcs0tNZbn/42nrHGIFp6mMp8qKL8Ks1FtSam2p+Bq9ErW12kmpYrFkBvB4/yPzUFG9SRNGZQ0WxWkJwWtzRu60ISFv/Bww395YOSFToKEpDQdwQZKge6HaNDEs4= Received: by 10.36.2.12 with SMTP id 12mr785878nzb; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 10:17:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.7.13 with HTTP; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 10:17:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <558b73fb050810101740138f9e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 13:17:08 -0400 From: Michael Crute To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Mozilla & Google behind the scenes payola In-Reply-To: <42FA2EB6.2030103@planet.nl> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_4133_4907657.1123694228054" References: <20050809195210.GA15338@may.frognet.net> <20050809210534.GZ792@quillandmouse.com> <42FA2881.4050603@gonoph.net> <42FA2EB6.2030103@planet.nl> X-Archives-Salt: 19e9a9c8-1c75-46d6-81c7-13869cf344d8 X-Archives-Hash: 66cb690fa6944cd3f55239975deca9eb ------=_Part_4133_4907657.1123694228054 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Hey guys just to put this all in perspective the guy who wrote that silly= =20 little article is a nutcase that is waging some weird holy war against=20 google. His other sites are: http://www.google-watch.org/ http://www.gmail-is-too-creepy.com/ So check those out first and that will squash what little credibility that= =20 article started out with. This guy is really of his rocker. -Mike On 8/10/05, Holly Bostick wrote: >=20 > Billy Holmes schreef: > > Paul M Foster wrote: > > > >> I'm trying to figure out what's wrong with this. Google pays Mozilla > >> to make Google the default search engine for Firefox. Mozilla could > >> have made it Yahoo or someone else, but Google paid them and that's > >> bad? This > > > > > > Some people have this idea that making money from OSS is wrong. Perhaps > > if they gave Mozilla a bunch of cows and goats it would be better... >=20 > Aside from the previously-made point that no one has actually "said" > that Mozilla is "making money" from this transaction (if I download and > burn a Linux CD and sell such CDs to others who cannot due to lack of > broadband, asking only the cost of the blank CD and shipping, I am not > "making money"; I am only recouping my costs), has anyone actually > "proven" that Google's position as default search engine is because > Google 'paid' Mozilla for that position? >=20 > I mean, Google is arguably the best search engine, so it would have > presumably been the default anyway. Heaven knows that if it was a > question of money, Microsoft has enough to throw around that if that was > the only determining factor, the default would likely be MSN search. >=20 > It does happen that you do me an honor (making my search engine the > default), and I show my appreciation for that by doing you a favor > (donating some money to your project). >=20 > We call it 'professional courtesy', and it's not the same as 'payola', > although it can look that way to the extremely suspicious. >=20 > Even if Google did buy their position, if in some burst of insanity I > decided that AltaVista was better, I could change my default to AltaVista= . >=20 > So Mozilla still gets their money (and I do want them to have some > money, btw), and I still get the default search engine I want. >=20 > Of course I have 50 search engines available in my search box, so > 'default search engine' is not as meaningful in my case as it might be > to others who don't feel the need to use the appropriate specific engine > for each individual search, as I do. >=20 > Holly > -- > gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list >=20 >=20 --=20 ________________________________ Michael E. Crute Software Developer SoftGroup Development Corporation "In a world without walls and fences, who needs windows and gates?" ------=_Part_4133_4907657.1123694228054 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Hey guys just to put this all in perspective the guy who wrote that silly little article is a nutcase that is waging some weird holy war against google. His other sites are:

http://www.google-watch.org/ http://www.gmail-is-too-cre= epy.com/

So check those out first and that will squash what little credibility that article started out with. This guy is really of his rocker.

-Mike

On 8/10/05, Holly Bostick <motub= @planet.nl> wrote:
Billy Holmes schreef:
> Paul M Foster wrote:
>
>> I'm = trying to figure out what's wrong with this. Google pays Mozilla
>>= ; to make Google the default search engine for Firefox. Mozilla could
>> have made it Yahoo or someone else, but Google paid them and that'= s
>> bad? This
>
>
> Some people have this idea = that making money from OSS is wrong. Perhaps
> if they gave Mozilla a= bunch of cows and goats it would be better...

Aside from the previously-made point that no one has actually "= ;said"
that Mozilla is "making money" from this transacti= on (if I download and
burn a Linux CD and sell such CDs to others who ca= nnot due to lack of
broadband, asking only the cost of the blank CD and shipping, I am not<= br>"making money"; I am only recouping my costs), has anyone actu= ally
"proven" that Google's position as default search engine = is because
Google 'paid' Mozilla for that position?

I mean, Google is argua= bly the best search engine, so it would have
presumably been the default= anyway. Heaven knows that if it was a
question of money, Microsoft has = enough to throw around that if that was
the only determining factor, the default would likely be MSN search.
It does happen that you do me an honor (making my search engine thedefault), and I show my appreciation for that by doing you a favor
(donating some money to your project).

We call it 'professional cour= tesy', and it's not the same as 'payola',
although it can look that way = to the extremely suspicious.

Even if Google did buy their position, = if in some burst of insanity I
decided that AltaVista was better, I could change my default to AltaVis= ta.

So Mozilla still gets their money (and I do want them to have so= me
money, btw), and I still get the default search engine I want.

Of course I have 50 search engines available in my search box, so
'd= efault search engine' is not as meaningful in my case as it might be
to = others who don't feel the need to use the appropriate specific engine
for each individual search, as I do.

Holly
--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list




--
_________________________= _______
Michael E. Crute
Software Developer
SoftGroup Development Corpora= tion

"In a world without walls and fences, who needs windows an= d gates?" ------=_Part_4133_4907657.1123694228054-- -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list