From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95ACD138A1C for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 19:09:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8535CE09A6; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 19:09:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.yourstruly.sx (mail.yourstruly.sx [206.125.168.70]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABF4EE0929 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 19:09:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.yourstruly.sx (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56CDD103AD7 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 22:35:36 +0200 (EET) Authentication-Results: mail.yourstruly.sx (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) reason="pass (just generated, assumed good)" header.d=yourstruly.sx DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=yourstruly.sx; h= content-transfer-encoding:content-type:content-type:in-reply-to :references:subject:subject:mime-version:user-agent:from:from :date:date:message-id:received:received; s=mail; t=1416602133; x=1418416534; bh=HY+F3BkB4umV+WgTIIth2/pqBJFLA67k+5ebKd72/Ho=; b= UNUkTm8ABL6EneGknlQTCirlvDms0MsUhyWVMOhEIB5tEtX2VSmaxdZk6qYB1Bac dZTLPBdvag61PxwCgFe3cpg7HSMRA2Qba4nI8A7UTLAlb8fx/lOXThKajYraR5OO KJTXOa+dy4NXA8UrD8tGuGo0CWHj4dmPpM3ScqGNtZ0= X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at yourstruly.sx X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1 tagged_above=-9999 required=5 tests=[ALL_TRUSTED=-1] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.yourstruly.sx ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.yourstruly.sx [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id r6sFNL_CpeXy for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 22:35:33 +0200 (EET) Received: from [206.125.168.66] (laptop.paigeat.info [206.125.168.66]) by mail.yourstruly.sx (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 82BB3103A40 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 22:35:30 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <546F8D88.908@yourstruly.sx> Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 19:07:52 +0000 From: Paige Thompson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.8.0 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] The future of linux, and Gentoo specifically now References: <546F78D3.90809@tampabay.rr.com> In-Reply-To: <546F78D3.90809@tampabay.rr.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Archives-Salt: 7a9a704b-64eb-48b1-8e87-e3026dfdc373 X-Archives-Hash: 0fd710b137d6d2b79a9edc1a709a7938 On 11/21/14 17:39, wireless@tampabay.rr.com wrote: > On 11/21/14 07:00, Rich Freeman wrote: >> On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 2:32 AM, Canek Peláez Valdés >> wrote: >>> It's actually a great thing for a lot of use cases. But it doesn't >>> seem that Gentoo will change defaults soon, although systemd works >>> great with it. >>> >> >> My (personal) sense is that in the medium-term we may end up moving to >> not having any default at all, just as with bootloaders, kernels, >> syslog, crontab, mail, etc. That is pretty-much the Gentoo way >> everywhere else when there are options. >> >> As you already pointed out, as long as somebody cares to maintain >> openrc and write init scripts for it, there will be support for it. >> Many init scripts and systemd units are contributed by outside users >> already, and policy is that maintainers cannot block them from being >> added to packages (though they do not have to write/maintain them >> personally). >> >> Gentoo doesn't really tend to exclude anything, and inclusion is a >> matter of whether somebody wants to put in the work. > >> Rich > > Very wall expressed and neutral. This is an "800 lb gorilla" that nobody > seems to be talking about; that is embedded linux. Embedded linux now > accounts for at least 20 times the number of deployments of linux than > workstations and servers combined; some argue it is far more, others a > bit less. Regardless, embedded linux is a force that is driving the > semiconductor markets. There's not much margin on 32bit or less. etc etc. > > The main point of embedded linux is take what Rich has articulated above > and multiply it by a billion. There is no such thing as standard > embedded linux. If Systemd is successful, with very large embedded > systems (dozens to hundreds of cores) then it has a future. If it > fails in that space, it may survive, but not likely. It will old serve > to isolate those distros that go down that path, exclusively, *imho*. > > Regardless, the smaller, cheaper embedded linux crowd is very unlikely > to ever embrace systemd. Why? Glad you asks. Thousands of reasons, but, > here are a few: It is very common in embedded (anything) to run > multiple and often different rtos (real time operating system) on > different embedded systems products, often to circumvent licenses, > royalties, duplication, security and a plethora of other reasons. > Furthermore, many embedded systems run simultaneous codes on a single > core and systemd does not fit into that scheme of things, at all. > > > So, even if gentoo becomes stupid and decides to abandon openrc. Many > folks will just move to embedded (gentoo) linux and play "follow the > leaders" with bootstrapping there cores. > > Rest easy as the devs fight this one out. I hope systemd survives > and prospers. I can tell you one area of massive failure and that is > clustering/cloud computing. Sure the "big dogs" with big buck are > claiming to use systemd, but they only roll out binary offerings. When > others try to use one of the commercial brands of linux and build a > cluster/cloud from the source-codes up, there are all sorts of problems. > > Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Very strange, batman. Very strange. > > > What is going on, is wildly variant. YMMV. But, should I be a sporting > man, my money is on the embedded folks deciding if something other than > systemd survives. Why do I bet on embedded folks? Easy. I personally > know of dozens of folks that code in machine, assembler all the way > through any language they choose. They routinely build entire systems, > custom on a wide bit of processors. Only a few of those folks are > necessary to keep alternatives to systemd alive, prosperous and > clearly documented. There are most likely tens of thousands of the > folks around the world. Do the math. Each time one of these experts > build an embedded > (linux) system, it is usually optimized and so wonderful, that > companies clone them in counts of thousands to millions of deployed > linux systems. The fact that the majority rare require human tinkering, > is both a testament to how well they run and the wisdon of these > brilliant developers to keep the rank and file humanoids using winblows > and OXlooser operating systems. > > A forking of the linux kernel would be the best thing to happen to > opensource, in a very, very long time. The kernel development has become > a "good ole boys club" imho. > > Embedded linux runs everywhere; so rest easy! > > > peace, > James > > > > > > > I hope for this to be the case