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Sat, 12 Nov 2022 13:38:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.8.8.8] ([107.179.20.174]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ff5-20020a05622a4d8500b0039cc47752casm3311716qtb.77.2022.11.12.13.37.59 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 12 Nov 2022 13:38:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Upgrading from 5.14 to 6.0 version To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org References: <3418bb3d-f939-6606-7e19-5e883c198208@gmail.com> <663dc8a8-7dc2-3361-f524-3ba464fcac3b@gmail.com> <301cc78f-d97c-b965-73fd-5a8a60b09c3a@youngman.org.uk> From: Dale Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=rdalek1967@gmail.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBGFSciYBEADcEGMyJBSuavKO/XKUVvgkxck7Nl8Iuu8N2lcnRji/rSKg5c1Acix1ll9i oW8JBCHwvn0+Xy60BvEsqcup3YSHw5STl/bR1ePEehtnYrg8FdjdS91+B805RfnKMm69rFVI wLSBHQrSG1yxHd8CloWoEdhmVtP24buajbh114bgXd9ahtpZrCVMrWdWYUg2mEXguGV5uNAh Rf8SWxDNc79w24JxsV34a8niMUYMjzWr0rafIbzk732X38vGjVMLo/2mMpkbp9mPp++LHoY+ 0Pet8zxxdXPJSCd475kza1AD+hhSyBZXB9yknYWgyY3cZe1rGmooJSi2KX4QxO7npwLThcO1 be6KKRkd35+Fi/a1BzVOHsZMiK/gcwxEFoMd27gir4ehaeHJfFXl+65w4hj0EsOZSxrJrm2C R50g5By2czSKP1bADEygFNpIJj51AR+wM88NImG2RPtlT2maYBzazvF05g65cdHXGp1C7W5P wwwKU2DgABB2t7N7z5A69LnryBRw4zUYDRRYLTYlBlYgg+xILm2c0OrBdxJgLJa7JE50Eo25 d3PFwt9J0gYvqy6sPFLl9So0sDg9zm0hKQtXOP5kgropUFGrNoJI+mjwF4rYLRBVzZwNAvlO OhEvHubBo3mEllv4x+FeptwXZxlk7gUsdqI8AxnFB8K9wi6FVQARAQABtBtEYWxlIDxyZGFs ZWsxOTY3QGdtYWlsLmNvbT6JAk4EEwEIADgCGyMFCwkIBwIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AW IQQSG1h01ruv/WNXc3Q3RqOgiQH1GwUCYVJy8gAKCRA3RqOgiQH1G+waEACeTZCt77jnRAmQ AV7otKuZekDWiLi3Eig8tj5ZJiCNSYA/hIxzmexRP0GMqjitcXK1iGwWcvMzzvIq30GAjIfB 4BR38cnXbtBa6fNewiT7QaZe/Hn6yBRldXNQypzbHy+/o27bUEy+oX4rE7etUgEHQAjuw7xz XFWg4tH1/KJvsOVY5upnWc5LdxYhsuQ3dQD4b22GsK0pOBDfb9PiirYM8eGKvrVuq4E/c75z lDDFhINl18lNZ9D0ZFL3IkTjHsAAqFH9uhnnEB8CWdHbBewPEfRaOhBUYWZ3Q8uTkmDgZT8q D9jlvLEdw7Nh2ApdxoepnI/4D+ql2Gr4DtH7SEPydr5gcf1Qr/2bXRb1hAYnIVcbncs/Bm3Z bkRKPVWMfE3Fusa+p5hMzixk0YysMaTHlc7mYRYAEZGnPMXnmcCbetwARU7A0yz1M1kCMOAQ Lsz8KH5kv3cRenMB6SFfjND2JfAK61H5TtnPq3L8noS2ZykRYxq9Nm3X64O1tJojIKBoZFr8 AwYNCvqC6puUyGMuzHPh7jPof8glfrrEKIYUvNPGMDoVX3IGetxh/9l6NcxgFA4JGoR+LS3C zmeNrwlllAe3OEUfKoWVQ+pagpSdM+8hHolaSda4Ys66Z3fCR4ZvcTqfhTAVskpqdXa4isAk 7vTcXu3L499ttywEp7rJTbkCDQRhUnImARAAncUdVhmtRr59zqpTUppKroQYlzR0jv8oa7DG K4gakTAT2N7evnI9wpssmzyVk8VEiLzhnFQ/Ol3FRt6hZCXDJt0clyHOyTfvz/MNFttWuZTc mLpSvmRR6VRjAH+Tz3Eam2xUw3PGuH97BcXQ3NnX3msv1UDxtxxBu6e2YrdeOhrCUSgzokcJ 98ChUNy934cgepPybAI12lSWqVFQ1aG7jExZfiUk+333fPSDbpKoZbTW5YJLXbycmW/C1IWL qYQyNjRWKaGoJtUWFhhmNiOQct7n90aKivNVPavmN+UQ9LlMaINtf9T6XCzLfogCFsulDCDJ 0yNQLDTurHaB4E71xoctgXmLLq9z1RQ0W2XiVAAOZQj6K3+d0AOUjDhCQ2QW8dUSq0ckkZXV DKVJOGS8Nhf2eIWIqRnP3AcUiiaiFGqUaVUmUAZ6h/oJmgghEu/1S+pcuUKU5i69+XCZ3hH2 Jzwzbf7K+FAIkOhCfHncF8i1N1pk00pOVykNnqHTfFo3qFusHt0ZWgXVnnn4pYdXqZNoDhvF BRE5Vm4k/k96Pw8HRx6Os6eFSRrlqGzRgqsu86FekxusXB9UGv4lJhtU/J+8MRWsh22K718s DbQnABicGKFz1qQlWvcf59oTByhLINJCBt1WXl+TzJDXepr3QSkqmK41dO9Hob97C9dMiK8A EQEAAYkCNgQYAQgAIAIbDBYhBBIbWHTWu6/9Y1dzdDdGo6CJAfUbBQJhUnLyAAoJEDdGo6CJ AfUbVHIQAKSWw620vPhR3A/njU2z77F3z/Jk+HTKdE3fIyWSWdkYN7CBFL0NguOMP30WZ+qE sJhZu7T5hf251MwQUUt27xlfnKYOmQs7CqONlXuXlGZI6WufrUjxNcVz+5gJsqvUWuuJWsgg sDmE92IBnfG/f81fPHWQyfr/SF4wYDMyoFp5xCCQpp1zB63iuFvvrhxBkEHzmbRtVDOhl0Xp BVEDR1w3QRACw9QJD/KM05Czv9JNQYlwinWO/OaQ9cMlUpKLgswUPg9IZ5vucxScfuAUA5uC B1jlAQ8ZPlVukBmbEv5RGOv+lpuEbA3YDMVtEeH4YMFbjt/+vH3Cr2vTbp5JlpByLburJEH0 WXZLUawEfUsZvVwpOuJK75vaa2HYXee+Cb3iCIzwfIfctdlqzUcbGRczlRNM59hpvj4z29Gh 3kAxVHItAYq54ikxQ9l4hQ8s9sLYPbX/WtcBxNX8crBSw0FLnmzGleVEtBHyqtt5CLzQNgrj GYWl1vKDUmRPw1CdZ1c+fMN9CY11jOM5B5ZnqZWfDeVYO2iJ5SuvTycChexCb8WYn1bdCBIo bBtga2RBXbVt4Mh9E4owsszefn51MwfjXxB20Fc5k3GU1AVpTCMs3ayYCzo0b2pvEvdjtDcA CYLEFPWgaFX9iQAM/CDfKvTtvgGWpqtCL2raq/mQoJEU Message-ID: <5428cae1-1e37-4a3b-ffe9-040b3c4a8c22@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2022 15:37:58 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/68.0 SeaMonkey/2.53.14 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------4E1046E6ECEF48EC426163B3" X-Archives-Salt: fbc088c5-4ce8-4eb7-8e5f-94ec168c2a94 X-Archives-Hash: e7941000d2949a021594f1b299290217 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------4E1046E6ECEF48EC426163B3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Mark Knecht wrote: > > > On Sat, Nov 12, 2022 at 12:13 PM Wol > wrote: > > > > On 12/11/2022 18:22, Dale wrote: > > > Where does one go for a list of the LTS kernels?  Since I reboot so > > > rarely, what not use one of them??  Of course, the kernel I have > in use > > > now has long uptimes so it is sort of LTS for this rig anyway. > > > > Do you REALLY want an LTS kernel? Sounds like you don't. You need to > > update them just as much as any other kernel. > > > > The point of an LTS kernel is it supposed to NOT receive feature > > updates, just bug fixes. Given that Artificial Stupidity bots regularly > > try to apply updates to stable kernels, is it worth restricting yourself > >   to old kernels? Especially when it's not unknown for a bot to try to > > backport a patch from kernel X+2, when it depends on a patch from X+1 > > that hasn't been backported, and anybody using that code finds their > > "stable" kernel blowing up in their face. > > > > The idea behind stable kernels is great. The implementation leaves a lot > > to be desired and, as always, the reason is not enough manpower. > > > > Cheers, > > Wol > > Wol, >    While I don't completely disagree with your technical points I > really don't think your assessment of the purpose of a LTS kernel > is wide ranging enough.  > >    I do agree that from what I know of Dale's usage he probably  > doesn't NEED a long term support kernel, but he may be better  > off with one. > >    If you are user of apps you pay for - in my case Mixbus - an paid > version of Ardour - and PixInsight then you are not going to get  > much support if you're off in the weeds running Gentoo and/or > leading edge kernels. I run Kubuntu now, but not because I think > it's a better distro, but because I get support. Harrison does all > the dirty work on the audio stack and Pleiades Astro basically > says you're on your own running unless you are on just a couple of > distros. They were no help when I ran Gentoo. They are great  > under Kubuntu. > >    An additional point is that if Dale limits himself to an LTS  > kernel then he doesn't have to worry about changes to his > tool chain. I'm just waiting for the day that Rust becomes > a driving conversation point on this list. I don't think Dale  > wants or needs to be involved in that. > >    Anyway, just my point of view. > > Best wishes, > Mark Usually, I try to update about once a year.  I don't change hardware much.  I do plan to get a PCI SATA card with more ports later on but still, I don't change hardware a whole lot.  Maybe a LTS isn't for me.  I was just curious if I would benefit from using one since I don't upgrade much and the kernels I run, run for months without problems.  So to me, they are rock stable.  This is from uprecords, just the first seven entries.  1   303 days, 11:46:23 | Linux 4.5.2-gentoo        Sat Jul 29 23:20:27 2017 2   227 days, 22:10:30 | Linux 5.6.7-gentoo        Wed Oct 28 13:59:36 2020 3   200 days, 06:51:46 | Linux 4.18.12-gentoo      Sat Jan 12 03:42:55 2019 4   193 days, 09:28:37 | Linux 3.5.3-gentoo        Sat Sep 22 07:50:38 2012 5   184 days, 15:47:57 | Linux 3.18.7-gentoo       Tue Dec 15 21:53:59 2015 6   166 days, 20:47:12 | Linux 5.6.7-gentoo        Thu May 14 00:47:09 2020 7   147 days, 10:32:02 | Linux 5.14.15-gentoo      Sun Feb 13 01:09:41 2022 My current kernel is on the bottom.  With hard drive changes, I been rebooting more often than usual.  Still, 147 days is pretty stable.  :-D It was just a thought.  Maybe not even a good one.  ;-) Dale :-)  :-)  --------------4E1046E6ECEF48EC426163B3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Mark Knecht wrote:


On Sat, Nov 12, 2022 at 12:13 PM Wol <antlists@youngman.org.uk> wrote:
>
> On 12/11/2022 18:22, Dale wrote:
> > Where does one go for a list of the LTS kernels?  Since I reboot so
> > rarely, what not use one of them??  Of course, the kernel I have in use
> > now has long uptimes so it is sort of LTS for this rig anyway.
>
> Do you REALLY want an LTS kernel? Sounds like you don't. You need to
> update them just as much as any other kernel.
>
> The point of an LTS kernel is it supposed to NOT receive feature
> updates, just bug fixes. Given that Artificial Stupidity bots regularly
> try to apply updates to stable kernels, is it worth restricting yourself
>   to old kernels? Especially when it's not unknown for a bot to try to
> backport a patch from kernel X+2, when it depends on a patch from X+1
> that hasn't been backported, and anybody using that code finds their
> "stable" kernel blowing up in their face.
>
> The idea behind stable kernels is great. The implementation leaves a lot
> to be desired and, as always, the reason is not enough manpower.
>
> Cheers,
> Wol

Wol,
   While I don't completely disagree with your technical points I
really don't think your assessment of the purpose of a LTS kernel
is wide ranging enough. 

   I do agree that from what I know of Dale's usage he probably 
doesn't NEED a long term support kernel, but he may be better 
off with one.

   If you are user of apps you pay for - in my case Mixbus - an paid
version of Ardour - and PixInsight then you are not going to get 
much support if you're off in the weeds running Gentoo and/or
leading edge kernels. I run Kubuntu now, but not because I think
it's a better distro, but because I get support. Harrison does all
the dirty work on the audio stack and Pleiades Astro basically
says you're on your own running unless you are on just a couple of
distros. They were no help when I ran Gentoo. They are great 
under Kubuntu.

   An additional point is that if Dale limits himself to an LTS 
kernel then he doesn't have to worry about changes to his
tool chain. I'm just waiting for the day that Rust becomes
a driving conversation point on this list. I don't think Dale 
wants or needs to be involved in that.

   Anyway, just my point of view.

Best wishes,
Mark


Usually, I try to update about once a year.  I don't change hardware much.  I do plan to get a PCI SATA card with more ports later on but still, I don't change hardware a whole lot.  Maybe a LTS isn't for me.  I was just curious if I would benefit from using one since I don't upgrade much and the kernels I run, run for months without problems.  So to me, they are rock stable.  This is from uprecords, just the first seven entries. 

1   303 days, 11:46:23 | Linux 4.5.2-gentoo        Sat Jul 29 23:20:27 2017
2   227 days, 22:10:30 | Linux 5.6.7-gentoo        Wed Oct 28 13:59:36 2020
3   200 days, 06:51:46 | Linux 4.18.12-gentoo      Sat Jan 12 03:42:55 2019
4   193 days, 09:28:37 | Linux 3.5.3-gentoo        Sat Sep 22 07:50:38 2012
5   184 days, 15:47:57 | Linux 3.18.7-gentoo       Tue Dec 15 21:53:59 2015
6   166 days, 20:47:12 | Linux 5.6.7-gentoo        Thu May 14 00:47:09 2020
7   147 days, 10:32:02 | Linux 5.14.15-gentoo      Sun Feb 13 01:09:41 2022

My current kernel is on the bottom.  With hard drive changes, I been rebooting more often than usual.  Still, 147 days is pretty stable.  :-D

It was just a thought.  Maybe not even a good one.  ;-)

Dale

:-)  :-) 
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