public inbox for gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
* [gentoo-user] Do I really need to install new packages during upgrade?
@ 2014-08-26  9:21 Gevisz
  2014-08-26  9:34 ` [gentoo-user] " Holger Hoffstätte
  2014-08-26  9:42 ` [gentoo-user] " Peter Humphrey
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Gevisz @ 2014-08-26  9:21 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-user

I have just tried to upgrade my system (which I do almost every day)
and found out that portage wants to install 6 new python packages
that seem to be unnecessary because for example
  # equery depends dev-python/pyopenssl
reports that no other package depends on this one.

The same situation is with all the other python packages.

# emerge --update --deep --with-bdeps=y --newuse --backtrack=60 --ask
world

These are the packages that would be merged, in order:

Calculating dependencies... done!
[ebuild     U  ] app-admin/eselect-ruby-20131227 [20100603]
[ebuild  N     ] dev-python/pyopenssl-0.13.1  USE="-doc"
PYTHON_TARGETS="python2_7 python3_3 (-pypy) -python3_2"
[ebuild  N] dev-python/ndg-httpsclient-0.3.2  PYTHON_TARGETS="python2_7
(-pypy)" 
[ebuild  N     ] dev-python/pyasn1-0.1.7  USE="-doc"
PYTHON_TARGETS="python2_7 python3_3 (-pypy) -python3_2 (-python3_4)" 
[ebuild  N     ] dev-python/chardet-2.2.1 PYTHON_TARGETS="python2_7
python3_3 (-pypy) -python3_2 (-python3_4)"
[ebuild  N     ] dev-python/requests-2.3.0 PYTHON_TARGETS="python2_7
python3_3 (-pypy) (-python3_4)" 
[ebuild N] dev-python/ssl-fetch-0.2  PYTHON_TARGETS="python2_7
python3_3 (-pypy) (-python3_4)"
[ebuild     U  ] app-portage/mirrorselect-2.2.2 [2.2.0.1]
PYTHON_TARGETS="(-python3_4)" 

Would you like to merge these packages? [Yes/No]


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* [gentoo-user] Re: Do I really need to install new packages during upgrade?
  2014-08-26  9:21 [gentoo-user] Do I really need to install new packages during upgrade? Gevisz
@ 2014-08-26  9:34 ` Holger Hoffstätte
  2014-08-26 10:04   ` Gevisz
  2014-08-26  9:42 ` [gentoo-user] " Peter Humphrey
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Holger Hoffstätte @ 2014-08-26  9:34 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-user

On Tue, 26 Aug 2014 12:21:35 +0300, Gevisz wrote:

> I have just tried to upgrade my system (which I do almost every day) and
> found out that portage wants to install 6 new python packages that seem
> to be unnecessary because for example
>   # equery depends dev-python/pyopenssl
> reports that no other package depends on this one.

..*at the moment*. In this case pyopenssl is required for ssl-fetch, 
which - at least here - is used by e.g. layman. One or more new packages 
can also come in as part of an update, e.g. when that package gains new 
capabilities. I suspect in your case that's mirrorselect.

Unless you start emerging random packages by yourself (thereby adding 
them to @world) portage usually does the right thing.

-h



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-user] Do I really need to install new packages during upgrade?
  2014-08-26  9:21 [gentoo-user] Do I really need to install new packages during upgrade? Gevisz
  2014-08-26  9:34 ` [gentoo-user] " Holger Hoffstätte
@ 2014-08-26  9:42 ` Peter Humphrey
  2014-08-26 10:00   ` Gevisz
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Peter Humphrey @ 2014-08-26  9:42 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-user

On Tuesday 26 August 2014 12:21:35 Gevisz wrote:
> I have just tried to upgrade my system (which I do almost every day)
> and found out that portage wants to install 6 new python packages
> that seem to be unnecessary because for example
>   # equery depends dev-python/pyopenssl
> reports that no other package depends on this one.
> 
> The same situation is with all the other python packages.
> 
> # emerge --update --deep --with-bdeps=y --newuse --backtrack=60 --ask
> world

It could be that "--with-bdeps=y" term. I took a long time to learn that 
lesson, as old-timers may remember.

What happens if you change y to n?

-- 
Regards
Peter



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-user] Do I really need to install new packages during upgrade?
  2014-08-26  9:42 ` [gentoo-user] " Peter Humphrey
@ 2014-08-26 10:00   ` Gevisz
  2014-08-26 11:30     ` Alan McKinnon
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Gevisz @ 2014-08-26 10:00 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-user

On Tue, 26 Aug 2014 10:42:01 +0100
Peter Humphrey <peter@prh.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

> On Tuesday 26 August 2014 12:21:35 Gevisz wrote:
> > I have just tried to upgrade my system (which I do almost every day)
> > and found out that portage wants to install 6 new python packages
> > that seem to be unnecessary because for example
> >   # equery depends dev-python/pyopenssl
> > reports that no other package depends on this one.
> > 
> > The same situation is with all the other python packages.
> > 
> > # emerge --update --deep --with-bdeps=y --newuse --backtrack=60
> > --ask world
> 
> It could be that "--with-bdeps=y" term. I took a long time to learn
> that lesson, as old-timers may remember.
> 
> What happens if you change y to n?

In this case, the portage wants to update all the same "unnecessary"
python packages and only decides not to update the eselect-ruby. 



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Do I really need to install new packages during upgrade?
  2014-08-26  9:34 ` [gentoo-user] " Holger Hoffstätte
@ 2014-08-26 10:04   ` Gevisz
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Gevisz @ 2014-08-26 10:04 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-user

On Tue, 26 Aug 2014 09:34:42 +0000 (UTC)
Holger Hoffstätte <holger.hoffstaette@googlemail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 26 Aug 2014 12:21:35 +0300, Gevisz wrote:
> 
> > I have just tried to upgrade my system (which I do almost every
> > day) and found out that portage wants to install 6 new python
> > packages that seem to be unnecessary because for example
> >   # equery depends dev-python/pyopenssl
> > reports that no other package depends on this one.
> 
> ..*at the moment*.

I expected something like this.

> In this case pyopenssl is required for ssl-fetch, 
> which - at least here - is used by e.g. layman.

Yes, I have layman installed (though do not use it actually).

> One or more new packages can also come in as part of an update,
> e.g. when that package gains new capabilities. I suspect in your
> case that's mirrorselect.

Not exactly got it, but ok. :)
 
> Unless you start emerging random packages by yourself (thereby adding 
> them to @world) portage usually does the right thing.

I hope. :)

Thank you for explanations.




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-user] Do I really need to install new packages during upgrade?
  2014-08-26 10:00   ` Gevisz
@ 2014-08-26 11:30     ` Alan McKinnon
  2014-08-26 14:42       ` Gevisz
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Alan McKinnon @ 2014-08-26 11:30 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-user

On 26/08/2014 12:00, Gevisz wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Aug 2014 10:42:01 +0100
> Peter Humphrey <peter@prh.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> 
>> On Tuesday 26 August 2014 12:21:35 Gevisz wrote:
>>> I have just tried to upgrade my system (which I do almost every day)
>>> and found out that portage wants to install 6 new python packages
>>> that seem to be unnecessary because for example
>>>   # equery depends dev-python/pyopenssl
>>> reports that no other package depends on this one.
>>>
>>> The same situation is with all the other python packages.
>>>
>>> # emerge --update --deep --with-bdeps=y --newuse --backtrack=60
>>> --ask world
>>
>> It could be that "--with-bdeps=y" term. I took a long time to learn
>> that lesson, as old-timers may remember.
>>
>> What happens if you change y to n?
> 
> In this case, the portage wants to update all the same "unnecessary"
> python packages and only decides not to update the eselect-ruby. 


You've approached this in an inefficient way.

When portage gives an odd list of dependencies to be emerged (especially
if they are new indicated by [ebuild  N     ]), then always run emerge
with the -t option. This will display the same output in a tree view
showing you what pulls things in. This exactly answers the question you
asked.

Looking at emerge output without the -t option does not show this
information, so you don't know.

When a package is to be installed new (i.e. not an update) then "equery
depends" is pointless. That form of the command shows the dependencies
for *installed*packages*, so obviously can't show the deps for something
not installed yet. There are options to equery that make it search the
tree itself, not your vdb, but they are slo-o-o-ow. maan equery for details.

--with-bdeps=n omits eselect-ruby as it is a build depend for some
package. A build depend means you need it to build something not to run
it. Portage defaults to n on this to make things a little more efficient
and compile less stuff. In your case eselect-ruby will only be updated
when something else that needs it at build time is updated. Until then
you strictly speaking don't really need it to be updated


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-user] Do I really need to install new packages during upgrade?
  2014-08-26 11:30     ` Alan McKinnon
@ 2014-08-26 14:42       ` Gevisz
  2014-08-26 15:12         ` Alan McKinnon
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Gevisz @ 2014-08-26 14:42 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-user

On Tue, 26 Aug 2014 13:30:58 +0200
Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 26/08/2014 12:00, Gevisz wrote:
> > On Tue, 26 Aug 2014 10:42:01 +0100
> > Peter Humphrey <peter@prh.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> > 
> >> On Tuesday 26 August 2014 12:21:35 Gevisz wrote:
> >>> I have just tried to upgrade my system (which I do almost every
> >>> day) and found out that portage wants to install 6 new python
> >>> packages that seem to be unnecessary because for example
> >>>   # equery depends dev-python/pyopenssl
> >>> reports that no other package depends on this one.
> >>>
> >>> The same situation is with all the other python packages.
> >>>
> >>> # emerge --update --deep --with-bdeps=y --newuse --backtrack=60
> >>> --ask world
> >>
> >> It could be that "--with-bdeps=y" term. I took a long time to learn
> >> that lesson, as old-timers may remember.
> >>
> >> What happens if you change y to n?
> > 
> > In this case, the portage wants to update all the same "unnecessary"
> > python packages and only decides not to update the eselect-ruby. 
> 
> 
> You've approached this in an inefficient way.
> 
> When portage gives an odd list of dependencies to be emerged
> (especially if they are new indicated by [ebuild  N     ]), then
> always run emerge with the -t option. This will display the same
> output in a tree view showing you what pulls things in. This exactly
> answers the question you asked.

Thank you for the hint. I will try it next time but now
  # emerge -t pyopenssl
just re-emerged the package and I saw no dependencies.

> Looking at emerge output without the -t option does not show this
> information, so you don't know.
> 
> When a package is to be installed new (i.e. not an update) then
> "equery depends" is pointless. That form of the command shows the
> dependencies for *installed*packages*, so obviously can't show the
> deps for something not installed yet.

Yes, now "equery depends" shows that pyopenssl is needed for ssl-fetch
and ndg-httpsclient, ssl-fetch is needed for mirrorselect is needed for
nothing. :)

I do not remember installing mirrorselect, at least I never used it
(just now found out what it is used for) but somehow it managed to get
into my world file...

May be I used it during my first Gentoo installation, my birth as Gentoo
user. We usually do not remember what happened during our births. :) 

> There are options to equery that make it search the tree itself,
> not your vdb, but they are slo-o-o-ow. maan equery for details.

I am not in a hurry, so will look for this option too. :)
 
> --with-bdeps=n omits eselect-ruby as it is a build depend for some
> package. A build depend means you need it to build something not to
> run it. Portage defaults to n on this to make things a little more
> efficient and compile less stuff. In your case eselect-ruby will only
> be updated when something else that needs it at build time is
> updated. Until then you strictly speaking don't really need it to be
> updated.

Thank you for the explanations.


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-user] Do I really need to install new packages during upgrade?
  2014-08-26 14:42       ` Gevisz
@ 2014-08-26 15:12         ` Alan McKinnon
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Alan McKinnon @ 2014-08-26 15:12 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-user

On 26/08/2014 16:42, Gevisz wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Aug 2014 13:30:58 +0200
> Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 26/08/2014 12:00, Gevisz wrote:
>>> On Tue, 26 Aug 2014 10:42:01 +0100
>>> Peter Humphrey <peter@prh.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tuesday 26 August 2014 12:21:35 Gevisz wrote:
>>>>> I have just tried to upgrade my system (which I do almost every
>>>>> day) and found out that portage wants to install 6 new python
>>>>> packages that seem to be unnecessary because for example
>>>>>   # equery depends dev-python/pyopenssl
>>>>> reports that no other package depends on this one.
>>>>>
>>>>> The same situation is with all the other python packages.
>>>>>
>>>>> # emerge --update --deep --with-bdeps=y --newuse --backtrack=60
>>>>> --ask world
>>>>
>>>> It could be that "--with-bdeps=y" term. I took a long time to learn
>>>> that lesson, as old-timers may remember.
>>>>
>>>> What happens if you change y to n?
>>>
>>> In this case, the portage wants to update all the same "unnecessary"
>>> python packages and only decides not to update the eselect-ruby. 
>>
>>
>> You've approached this in an inefficient way.
>>
>> When portage gives an odd list of dependencies to be emerged
>> (especially if they are new indicated by [ebuild  N     ]), then
>> always run emerge with the -t option. This will display the same
>> output in a tree view showing you what pulls things in. This exactly
>> answers the question you asked.
> 
> Thank you for the hint. I will try it next time but now
>   # emerge -t pyopenssl
> just re-emerged the package and I saw no dependencies.

That's correct.

pyopenssl depends on nothing so there is nothing to display.
Other things depend on pyopenssl (like ssl-fetch) so emerge those and
you'll see.

It's vital when working with portage to have a very firm grasp of the
difference between what a package depends on and what depends on it.

> 
>> Looking at emerge output without the -t option does not show this
>> information, so you don't know.
>>
>> When a package is to be installed new (i.e. not an update) then
>> "equery depends" is pointless. That form of the command shows the
>> dependencies for *installed*packages*, so obviously can't show the
>> deps for something not installed yet.
> 
> Yes, now "equery depends" shows that pyopenssl is needed for ssl-fetch
> and ndg-httpsclient, ssl-fetch is needed for mirrorselect is needed for
> nothing. :)
> 
> I do not remember installing mirrorselect, at least I never used it
> (just now found out what it is used for) but somehow it managed to get
> into my world file...

A hundred bucks says you ran "emerge mirrorselect" during your very
first install, because the install doc says to do it

> 
> May be I used it during my first Gentoo installation, my birth as Gentoo
> user. We usually do not remember what happened during our births. :) 
> 
>> There are options to equery that make it search the tree itself,
>> not your vdb, but they are slo-o-o-ow. maan equery for details.
> 
> I am not in a hurry, so will look for this option too. :)
>  
>> --with-bdeps=n omits eselect-ruby as it is a build depend for some
>> package. A build depend means you need it to build something not to
>> run it. Portage defaults to n on this to make things a little more
>> efficient and compile less stuff. In your case eselect-ruby will only
>> be updated when something else that needs it at build time is
>> updated. Until then you strictly speaking don't really need it to be
>> updated.
> 
> Thank you for the explanations.


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2014-08-26 15:13 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 8+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2014-08-26  9:21 [gentoo-user] Do I really need to install new packages during upgrade? Gevisz
2014-08-26  9:34 ` [gentoo-user] " Holger Hoffstätte
2014-08-26 10:04   ` Gevisz
2014-08-26  9:42 ` [gentoo-user] " Peter Humphrey
2014-08-26 10:00   ` Gevisz
2014-08-26 11:30     ` Alan McKinnon
2014-08-26 14:42       ` Gevisz
2014-08-26 15:12         ` Alan McKinnon

This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox