[gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Dale]

Howdy,

I run this test every once in a while.  How bad is this:

root@fireball / # smartctl -l selftest /dev/sdc
smartctl 6.1 2013-03-16 r3800 [x86_64-linux-3.14.0-gentoo] (local build)
Copyright (C) 2002-13, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, www.smartmontools.org

=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
Num  Test_Description    Status                  Remaining 
LifeTime(hours)  LBA_of_first_error
# 1  Extended offline    Completed: read failure       60%    
16365         2905482560
# 2  Extended offline    Completed: read failure       60%    
16352         2905482560
# 3  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%     
8044         -
# 4  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%     
3121         -

And better yet, is there any way to tell it to not use that part and
finish the test?  It seems it stopped when it got to that, or I think it
did. 

Thoughts? 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[J. Roeleveld]

On 25 June 2014 01:09:03 CEST, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>Howdy,
>
>I run this test every once in a while.  How bad is this:
>
>root@fireball / # smartctl -l selftest /dev/sdc
>smartctl 6.1 2013-03-16 r3800 [x86_64-linux-3.14.0-gentoo] (local
>build)
>Copyright (C) 2002-13, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke,
>www.smartmontools.org
>
>=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
>SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
>Num  Test_Description    Status                  Remaining 
>LifeTime(hours)  LBA_of_first_error
># 1  Extended offline    Completed: read failure       60%    
>16365         2905482560
># 2  Extended offline    Completed: read failure       60%    
>16352         2905482560
># 3  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%     
>8044         -
># 4  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%     
>3121         -
>
>And better yet, is there any way to tell it to not use that part and
>finish the test?  It seems it stopped when it got to that, or I think
>it
>did. 
>
>Thoughts? 
>
>Dale
>
>:-)  :-) 

Dale,

Not sure how to get it to go past. Think that is in the firmware of the disk.

I would start with making a backup first.

--
Joost
-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Dale]

J. Roeleveld wrote:
> On 25 June 2014 01:09:03 CEST, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Howdy,
>>
>> I run this test every once in a while.  How bad is this:
>>
>> root@fireball / # smartctl -l selftest /dev/sdc
>> smartctl 6.1 2013-03-16 r3800 [x86_64-linux-3.14.0-gentoo] (local
>> build)
>> Copyright (C) 2002-13, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke,
>> www.smartmontools.org
>>
>> === START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
>> SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
>> Num  Test_Description    Status                  Remaining 
>> LifeTime(hours)  LBA_of_first_error
>> # 1  Extended offline    Completed: read failure       60%    
>> 16365         2905482560
>> # 2  Extended offline    Completed: read failure       60%    
>> 16352         2905482560
>> # 3  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%     
>> 8044         -
>> # 4  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%     
>> 3121         -
>>
>> And better yet, is there any way to tell it to not use that part and
>> finish the test?  It seems it stopped when it got to that, or I think
>> it
>> did. 
>>
>> Thoughts? 
>>
>> Dale
>>
>> :-)  :-) 
> Dale,
>
> Not sure how to get it to go past. Think that is in the firmware of the disk.
>
> I would start with making a backup first.
>
> --
> Joost

That's a 3TB drive.  I don't have anything big enough to back it up to. 
Is there anyway to find out if this error is really serious or just a
run of the mill type error?  I would think that if it was a run of the
mill error the drive would handle the error itself and I wouldn't even
see it.  Something like marking the area as bad and just not trying to
use it anymore, even for the test. 

Thanks.  Any advice is appreciated.  I need a hard drive guru.  ;-)

Here is additional info:

root@fireball / # hdparm -i /dev/sdc

/dev/sdc:

 Model=ST3000DM001-9YN166, FwRev=CC4C, SerialNo=Z1F0PKT5
 Config={ HardSect NotMFM HdSw>15uSec Fixed DTR>10Mbs RotSpdTol>.5% }
 RawCHS=16383/16/63, TrkSize=0, SectSize=0, ECCbytes=4
 BuffType=unknown, BuffSize=unknown, MaxMultSect=16, MultSect=16
 CurCHS=16383/16/63, CurSects=16514064, LBA=yes, LBAsects=5860533168
 IORDY=on/off, tPIO={min:120,w/IORDY:120}, tDMA={min:120,rec:120}
 PIO modes:  pio0 pio1 pio2 pio3 pio4
 DMA modes:  mdma0 mdma1 mdma2
 UDMA modes: udma0 udma1 udma2 udma3 udma4 udma5 *udma6
 AdvancedPM=yes: unknown setting WriteCache=enabled
 Drive conforms to: unknown:  ATA/ATAPI-4,5,6,7

 * signifies the current active mode

root@fireball / #



Dale

:-)  :-) 

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[J. Roeleveld]

On 25 June 2014 07:05:03 CEST, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>J. Roeleveld wrote:
>> On 25 June 2014 01:09:03 CEST, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Howdy,
>>>
>>> I run this test every once in a while.  How bad is this:
>>>
>>> root@fireball / # smartctl -l selftest /dev/sdc
>>> smartctl 6.1 2013-03-16 r3800 [x86_64-linux-3.14.0-gentoo] (local
>>> build)
>>> Copyright (C) 2002-13, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke,
>>> www.smartmontools.org
>>>
>>> === START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
>>> SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
>>> Num  Test_Description    Status                  Remaining 
>>> LifeTime(hours)  LBA_of_first_error
>>> # 1  Extended offline    Completed: read failure       60%    
>>> 16365         2905482560
>>> # 2  Extended offline    Completed: read failure       60%    
>>> 16352         2905482560
>>> # 3  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%     
>>> 8044         -
>>> # 4  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%     
>>> 3121         -
>>>
>>> And better yet, is there any way to tell it to not use that part and
>>> finish the test?  It seems it stopped when it got to that, or I
>think
>>> it
>>> did. 
>>>
>>> Thoughts? 
>>>
>>> Dale
>>>
>>> :-)  :-) 
>> Dale,
>>
>> Not sure how to get it to go past. Think that is in the firmware of
>the disk.
>>
>> I would start with making a backup first.
>>
>> --
>> Joost
>
>That's a 3TB drive.  I don't have anything big enough to back it up to.
>
>Is there anyway to find out if this error is really serious or just a
>run of the mill type error?  I would think that if it was a run of the
>mill error the drive would handle the error itself and I wouldn't even
>see it.  Something like marking the area as bad and just not trying to
>use it anymore, even for the test. 
>
>Thanks.  Any advice is appreciated.  I need a hard drive guru.  ;-)
>
>Here is additional info:
>
>root@fireball / # hdparm -i /dev/sdc
>
>/dev/sdc:
>
> Model=ST3000DM001-9YN166, FwRev=CC4C, SerialNo=Z1F0PKT5
> Config={ HardSect NotMFM HdSw>15uSec Fixed DTR>10Mbs RotSpdTol>.5% }
> RawCHS=16383/16/63, TrkSize=0, SectSize=0, ECCbytes=4
> BuffType=unknown, BuffSize=unknown, MaxMultSect=16, MultSect=16
> CurCHS=16383/16/63, CurSects=16514064, LBA=yes, LBAsects=5860533168
> IORDY=on/off, tPIO={min:120,w/IORDY:120}, tDMA={min:120,rec:120}
> PIO modes:  pio0 pio1 pio2 pio3 pio4
> DMA modes:  mdma0 mdma1 mdma2
> UDMA modes: udma0 udma1 udma2 udma3 udma4 udma5 *udma6
> AdvancedPM=yes: unknown setting WriteCache=enabled
> Drive conforms to: unknown:  ATA/ATAPI-4,5,6,7
>
> * signifies the current active mode
>
>root@fireball / #
>
>
>
>Dale
>
>:-)  :-) 

There are some options with smartctl you could try to force the drive to swap that bad sector with a spare one.

A full disk read could also force that. Eg. Try ' dd if=/dev/sdc of=/dev/null '.

But, I usually order a replacement when Smart tests start throwing errors.

I know 3TB is a lot for you to have to backup, but it's also a lot of data to loose...

--
Joost
-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Dale]

J. Roeleveld wrote:
>> There are some options with smartctl you could try to force the drive
>> to swap that bad sector with a spare one. A full disk read could also
>> force that. Eg. Try ' dd if=/dev/sdc of=/dev/null '. But, I usually
>> order a replacement when Smart tests start throwing errors. I know
>> 3TB is a lot for you to have to backup, but it's also a lot of data
>> to loose... -- Joost 


I just don't have anything to put the data on.  I been saying I was
going to get me a backup drive but hadn't yet.  Looks like I better
order one unless someone pops on and says this is normal and OK, sort of
doubting that will happen tho. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[thegeezer]

On 06/25/2014 06:05 AM, Dale wrote:
> J. Roeleveld wrote:
>> On 25 June 2014 01:09:03 CEST, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Howdy,
>>>
>>> I run this test every once in a while.  How bad is this:
>>>
>>> root@fireball / # smartctl -l selftest /dev/sdc
>>> smartctl 6.1 2013-03-16 r3800 [x86_64-linux-3.14.0-gentoo] (local
>>> build)
>>> Copyright (C) 2002-13, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke,
>>> www.smartmontools.org
>>>
>>> === START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
>>> SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
>>> Num  Test_Description    Status                  Remaining 
>>> LifeTime(hours)  LBA_of_first_error
>>> # 1  Extended offline    Completed: read failure       60%    
>>> 16365         2905482560
>>> # 2  Extended offline    Completed: read failure       60%    
>>> 16352         2905482560
>>> # 3  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%     
>>> 8044         -
>>> # 4  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%     
>>> 3121         -
>>>

this is pretty bad. enough to really go and get a replacement asap, and
turn that disk off if you can.
the self test stops at the first error it comes to and in this case it
is LBA#2905482560
for calculation of where the error is check out the smartcl [1] site
which will help you to mark the block bad though the data that was in
that block is probably lost forever.
i'd also suggest you run
# smartctl -a /dev/sdc 
and paste the results here. the crucial rows are 196/197 the reallocated
sector counts and pending sector counts.
they show how many blocks have been reallocated, and also how many are
pending. this will give you a scaling factor, at the moment you are in
trouble, if these figures are very high you are in very high trouble, if
they are low you are in low trouble.

[1] http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/badblockhowto.html

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Dale]

thegeezer wrote:
> this is pretty bad. enough to really go and get a replacement asap,
> and turn that disk off if you can. the self test stops at the first
> error it comes to and in this case it is LBA#2905482560 for
> calculation of where the error is check out the smartcl [1] site which
> will help you to mark the block bad though the data that was in that
> block is probably lost forever. i'd also suggest you run # smartctl -a
> /dev/sdc and paste the results here. the crucial rows are 196/197 the
> reallocated sector counts and pending sector counts. they show how
> many blocks have been reallocated, and also how many are pending. this
> will give you a scaling factor, at the moment you are in trouble, if
> these figures are very high you are in very high trouble, if they are
> low you are in low trouble. [1]
> http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/badblockhowto.html 

Here is the output:

root@fireball / # smartctl -a /dev/sdc
smartctl 6.1 2013-03-16 r3800 [x86_64-linux-3.14.0-gentoo] (local build)
Copyright (C) 2002-13, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, www.smartmontools.org

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Model Family:     Seagate Barracuda 7200.14 (AF)
Device Model:     ST3000DM001-9YN166
Serial Number:    Z1F0PKT5
LU WWN Device Id: 5 000c50 04d79e15c
Firmware Version: CC4C
User Capacity:    3,000,592,982,016 bytes [3.00 TB]
Sector Sizes:     512 bytes logical, 4096 bytes physical
Rotation Rate:    7200 rpm
Device is:        In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
ATA Version is:   ATA8-ACS T13/1699-D revision 4
SATA Version is:  SATA 3.0, 6.0 Gb/s (current: 6.0 Gb/s)
Local Time is:    Wed Jun 25 02:46:39 2014 CDT

==> WARNING: A firmware update for this drive is available,
see the following Seagate web pages:
http://knowledge.seagate.com/articles/en_US/FAQ/207931en
http://knowledge.seagate.com/articles/en_US/FAQ/223651en

SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
SMART support is: Enabled

=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED

General SMART Values:
Offline data collection status:  (0x00) Offline data collection activity
                                        was never started.
                                        Auto Offline Data Collection:
Disabled.
Self-test execution status:      ( 118) The previous self-test completed
having
                                        the read element of the test failed.
Total time to complete Offline
data collection:                (  584) seconds.
Offline data collection
capabilities:                    (0x73) SMART execute Offline immediate.
                                        Auto Offline data collection
on/off support.
                                        Suspend Offline collection upon new
                                        command.
                                        No Offline surface scan supported.
                                        Self-test supported.
                                        Conveyance Self-test supported.
                                        Selective Self-test supported.
SMART capabilities:            (0x0003) Saves SMART data before entering
                                        power-saving mode.
                                        Supports SMART auto save timer.
Error logging capability:        (0x01) Error logging supported.
                                        General Purpose Logging supported.
Short self-test routine
recommended polling time:        (   1) minutes.
Extended self-test routine
recommended polling time:        ( 340) minutes.
Conveyance self-test routine
recommended polling time:        (   2) minutes.
SCT capabilities:              (0x3085) SCT Status supported.

SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 10
Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE     
UPDATED  WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
  1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x000f   119   099   006    Pre-fail 
Always       -       234421760
  3 Spin_Up_Time            0x0003   092   092   000    Pre-fail 
Always       -       0
  4 Start_Stop_Count        0x0032   100   100   020    Old_age  
Always       -       33
  5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   100   100   036    Pre-fail 
Always       -       0
  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000f   079   060   030    Pre-fail 
Always       -       99909120
  9 Power_On_Hours          0x0032   082   082   000    Old_age  
Always       -       16379
 10 Spin_Retry_Count        0x0013   100   100   097    Pre-fail 
Always       -       0
 12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0032   100   100   020    Old_age  
Always       -       34
183 Runtime_Bad_Block       0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age  
Always       -       0
184 End-to-End_Error        0x0032   100   100   099    Old_age  
Always       -       0
187 Reported_Uncorrect      0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age  
Always       -       0
188 Command_Timeout         0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age  
Always       -       0 0 0
189 High_Fly_Writes         0x003a   100   100   000    Old_age  
Always       -       0
190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel 0x0022   069   063   045    Old_age  
Always       -       31 (Min/Max 26/33)
191 G-Sense_Error_Rate      0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age  
Always       -       0
192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age  
Always       -       9
193 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   093   093   000    Old_age  
Always       -       14284
194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   031   040   000    Old_age  
Always       -       31 (0 17 0 0 0)
197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0012   100   100   000    Old_age  
Always       -       104
198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0010   100   100   000    Old_age  
Offline      -       104
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count    0x003e   200   200   000    Old_age  
Always       -       0
240 Head_Flying_Hours       0x0000   100   253   000    Old_age  
Offline      -       15955h+37m+28.932s
241 Total_LBAs_Written      0x0000   100   253   000    Old_age  
Offline      -       52221690631887
242 Total_LBAs_Read         0x0000   100   253   000    Old_age  
Offline      -       74848968465606

SMART Error Log Version: 1
No Errors Logged

SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
Num  Test_Description    Status                  Remaining 
LifeTime(hours)  LBA_of_first_error
# 1  Extended offline    Completed: read failure       60%    
16365         2905482560
# 2  Extended offline    Completed: read failure       60%    
16352         2905482560
# 3  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%     
8044         -
# 4  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%     
3121         -
# 5  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%     
1548         -
# 6  Short offline       Completed without error       00%     
1141         -
# 7  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%      
719         -
# 8  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%      
525         -
# 9  Short offline       Completed without error       00%      
516         -
#10  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%       
18         -
#11  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%        
5         -
#12  Short offline       Completed without error       00%        
0         -

SMART Selective self-test log data structure revision number 1
 SPAN  MIN_LBA  MAX_LBA  CURRENT_TEST_STATUS
    1        0        0  Not_testing
    2        0        0  Not_testing
    3        0        0  Not_testing
    4        0        0  Not_testing
    5        0        0  Not_testing
Selective self-test flags (0x0):
  After scanning selected spans, do NOT read-scan remainder of disk.
If Selective self-test is pending on power-up, resume after 0 minute delay.

root@fireball / #
 
Does that help shed any light on this situation?   If you need more
info, just let me know.  Off to newegg.  BRB 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[thegeezer]

On 06/25/2014 08:49 AM, Dale wrote:
> thegeezer wrote:
>> this is pretty bad. 
> Here is the output:
>
> root@fireball / # smartctl -a /dev/sdc
> smartctl 6.1 2013-03-16 r3800 [x86_64-linux-3.14.0-gentoo] (local build)
> Copyright (C) 2002-13, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, www.smartmontools.org
>
> === START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
> Model Family:     Seagate Barracuda 7200.14 (AF)
> Device Model:     ST3000DM001-9YN166
> Serial Number:    Z1F0PKT5
> LU WWN Device Id: 5 000c50 04d79e15c
> Firmware Version: CC4C
> User Capacity:    3,000,592,982,016 bytes [3.00 TB]
> Sector Sizes:     512 bytes logical, 4096 bytes physical
> Rotation Rate:    7200 rpm
> Device is:        In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
> ATA Version is:   ATA8-ACS T13/1699-D revision 4
> SATA Version is:  SATA 3.0, 6.0 Gb/s (current: 6.0 Gb/s)
> Local Time is:    Wed Jun 25 02:46:39 2014 CDT
>
> ==> WARNING: A firmware update for this drive is available,
> see the following Seagate web pages:
> http://knowledge.seagate.com/articles/en_US/FAQ/207931en
> http://knowledge.seagate.com/articles/en_US/FAQ/223651en

interesting - not seen that before might be worth a nose

> SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
> SMART support is: Enabled
>
> === START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
> SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED
>
> General SMART Values:
> Offline data collection status:  (0x00) Offline data collection activity
>                                         was never started.
>                                         Auto Offline Data Collection:
> Disabled.
> Self-test execution status:      ( 118) The previous self-test completed
> having
>                                         the read element of the test failed.
> Total time to complete Offline
> data collection:                (  584) seconds.
> Offline data collection
> capabilities:                    (0x73) SMART execute Offline immediate.
>                                         Auto Offline data collection
> on/off support.
>                                         Suspend Offline collection upon new
>                                         command.
>                                         No Offline surface scan supported.
>                                         Self-test supported.
>                                         Conveyance Self-test supported.
>                                         Selective Self-test supported.
> SMART capabilities:            (0x0003) Saves SMART data before entering
>                                         power-saving mode.
>                                         Supports SMART auto save timer.
> Error logging capability:        (0x01) Error logging supported.
>                                         General Purpose Logging supported.
> Short self-test routine
> recommended polling time:        (   1) minutes.
> Extended self-test routine
> recommended polling time:        ( 340) minutes.
> Conveyance self-test routine
> recommended polling time:        (   2) minutes.
> SCT capabilities:              (0x3085) SCT Status supported.
>
> SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 10
> Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
> ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE     
> UPDATED  WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
>   1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x000f   119   099   006    Pre-fail 
> Always       -       234421760

you can happily ignore this error rate, it is usual for it to be high
and htere is hardware correction for it

>   3 Spin_Up_Time            0x0003   092   092   000    Pre-fail 
> Always       -       0
>   4 Start_Stop_Count        0x0032   100   100   020    Old_age  
> Always       -       33

33 power cycles seem very low but further down we see the power on time
is just under two years which is also erring towards the lighter side of
the mtbf

>   5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   100   100   036    Pre-fail 
> Always       -       0

zero reallocated sectors suggests there is space to do reallocation

>   7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000f   079   060   030    Pre-fail 
> Always       -       99909120
>   9 Power_On_Hours          0x0032   082   082   000    Old_age  
> Always       -       16379

almost two years of power on time

>  10 Spin_Retry_Count        0x0013   100   100   097    Pre-fail 
> Always       -       0
>  12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0032   100   100   020    Old_age  
> Always       -       34
> 183 Runtime_Bad_Block       0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age  
> Always       -       0
> 184 End-to-End_Error        0x0032   100   100   099    Old_age  
> Always       -       0
> 187 Reported_Uncorrect      0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age  
> Always       -       0
> 188 Command_Timeout         0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age  
> Always       -       0 0 0
> 189 High_Fly_Writes         0x003a   100   100   000    Old_age  
> Always       -       0
> 190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel 0x0022   069   063   045    Old_age  
> Always       -       31 (Min/Max 26/33)
> 191 G-Sense_Error_Rate      0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age  
> Always       -       0
> 192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age  
> Always       -       9
> 193 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   093   093   000    Old_age  
> Always       -       14284
> 194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   031   040   000    Old_age  
> Always       -       31 (0 17 0 0 0)
> 197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0012   100   100   000    Old_age  
> Always       -       104
197
this says there are 104 pending sectors i.e. bad blocks on the drive
that have not been reallocatd yet

> 198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0010   100   100   000    Old_age  
> Offline      -       104

this says it was not able to reallocate. which is odd because of the
entry 5 being zero

> 199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count    0x003e   200   200   000    Old_age  
> Always       -       0
> 240 Head_Flying_Hours       0x0000   100   253   000    Old_age  
> Offline      -       15955h+37m+28.932s
> 241 Total_LBAs_Written      0x0000   100   253   000    Old_age  
> Offline      -       52221690631887
> 242 Total_LBAs_Read         0x0000   100   253   000    Old_age  
> Offline      -       74848968465606
>
> SMART Error Log Version: 1
> No Errors Logged
>
> SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
> Num  Test_Description    Status                  Remaining 
> LifeTime(hours)  LBA_of_first_error
> # 1  Extended offline    Completed: read failure       60%    
> 16365         2905482560
> # 2  Extended offline    Completed: read failure       60%    
> 16352         2905482560
> # 3  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%     
> 8044         -
> # 4  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%     
> 3121         -
> # 5  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%     
> 1548         -
> # 6  Short offline       Completed without error       00%     
> 1141         -
> # 7  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%      
> 719         -
> # 8  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%      
> 525         -
> # 9  Short offline       Completed without error       00%      
> 516         -
> #10  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%       
> 18         -
> #11  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%        
> 5         -
> #12  Short offline       Completed without error       00%        
> 0         -
>
> SMART Selective self-test log data structure revision number 1
>  SPAN  MIN_LBA  MAX_LBA  CURRENT_TEST_STATUS
>     1        0        0  Not_testing
>     2        0        0  Not_testing
>     3        0        0  Not_testing
>     4        0        0  Not_testing
>     5        0        0  Not_testing
> Selective self-test flags (0x0):
>   After scanning selected spans, do NOT read-scan remainder of disk.
> If Selective self-test is pending on power-up, resume after 0 minute delay.
>
> root@fireball / #
>  
> Does that help shed any light on this situation?   If you need more
> info, just let me know.  Off to newegg.  BRB 
>
> Dale
>
> :-)  :-) 
>

104 bad blocks is not a sign of a happy disk.
i would replace urgently

also consider running smartd or a smartmonitor plugin for munin as the
test log suggests you last ran a test after the first year of usage

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Dale]

thegeezer wrote:
> On 06/25/2014 08:49 AM, Dale wrote:
>> thegeezer wrote:
>>> this is pretty bad. 
>> Here is the output:
>>
>> root@fireball / # smartctl -a /dev/sdc
>> smartctl 6.1 2013-03-16 r3800 [x86_64-linux-3.14.0-gentoo] (local build)
>> Copyright (C) 2002-13, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, www.smartmontools.org
>>
>> === START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
>> Model Family:     Seagate Barracuda 7200.14 (AF)
>> Device Model:     ST3000DM001-9YN166
>> Serial Number:    Z1F0PKT5
>> LU WWN Device Id: 5 000c50 04d79e15c
>> Firmware Version: CC4C
>> User Capacity:    3,000,592,982,016 bytes [3.00 TB]
>> Sector Sizes:     512 bytes logical, 4096 bytes physical
>> Rotation Rate:    7200 rpm
>> Device is:        In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
>> ATA Version is:   ATA8-ACS T13/1699-D revision 4
>> SATA Version is:  SATA 3.0, 6.0 Gb/s (current: 6.0 Gb/s)
>> Local Time is:    Wed Jun 25 02:46:39 2014 CDT
>>
>> ==> WARNING: A firmware update for this drive is available,
>> see the following Seagate web pages:
>> http://knowledge.seagate.com/articles/en_US/FAQ/207931en
>> http://knowledge.seagate.com/articles/en_US/FAQ/223651en
> interesting - not seen that before might be worth a nose

I was thinking the same thing myself.  How does it know there is a
update was another question I had. 

>> SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
>> SMART support is: Enabled
>>
>> === START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
>> SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED
>>
>> General SMART Values:
>> Offline data collection status:  (0x00) Offline data collection activity
>>                                         was never started.
>>                                         Auto Offline Data Collection:
>> Disabled.
>> Self-test execution status:      ( 118) The previous self-test completed
>> having
>>                                         the read element of the test failed.
>> Total time to complete Offline
>> data collection:                (  584) seconds.
>> Offline data collection
>> capabilities:                    (0x73) SMART execute Offline immediate.
>>                                         Auto Offline data collection
>> on/off support.
>>                                         Suspend Offline collection upon new
>>                                         command.
>>                                         No Offline surface scan supported.
>>                                         Self-test supported.
>>                                         Conveyance Self-test supported.
>>                                         Selective Self-test supported.
>> SMART capabilities:            (0x0003) Saves SMART data before entering
>>                                         power-saving mode.
>>                                         Supports SMART auto save timer.
>> Error logging capability:        (0x01) Error logging supported.
>>                                         General Purpose Logging supported.
>> Short self-test routine
>> recommended polling time:        (   1) minutes.
>> Extended self-test routine
>> recommended polling time:        ( 340) minutes.
>> Conveyance self-test routine
>> recommended polling time:        (   2) minutes.
>> SCT capabilities:              (0x3085) SCT Status supported.
>>
>> SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 10
>> Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
>> ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE     
>> UPDATED  WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
>>   1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x000f   119   099   006    Pre-fail 
>> Always       -       234421760
> you can happily ignore this error rate, it is usual for it to be high
> and htere is hardware correction for it
>
>>   3 Spin_Up_Time            0x0003   092   092   000    Pre-fail 
>> Always       -       0
>>   4 Start_Stop_Count        0x0032   100   100   020    Old_age  
>> Always       -       33
> 33 power cycles seem very low but further down we see the power on time
> is just under two years which is also erring towards the lighter side of
> the mtbf

About the only time I shutdown is when the power fails.  My puter only
pulls about 150 watts so I just leave it running 24/7. 


>
>>   5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   100   100   036    Pre-fail 
>> Always       -       0
> zero reallocated sectors suggests there is space to do reallocation
>
>>   7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000f   079   060   030    Pre-fail 
>> Always       -       99909120
>>   9 Power_On_Hours          0x0032   082   082   000    Old_age  
>> Always       -       16379
> almost two years of power on time
>
>>  10 Spin_Retry_Count        0x0013   100   100   097    Pre-fail 
>> Always       -       0
>>  12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0032   100   100   020    Old_age  
>> Always       -       34
>> 183 Runtime_Bad_Block       0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age  
>> Always       -       0
>> 184 End-to-End_Error        0x0032   100   100   099    Old_age  
>> Always       -       0
>> 187 Reported_Uncorrect      0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age  
>> Always       -       0
>> 188 Command_Timeout         0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age  
>> Always       -       0 0 0
>> 189 High_Fly_Writes         0x003a   100   100   000    Old_age  
>> Always       -       0
>> 190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel 0x0022   069   063   045    Old_age  
>> Always       -       31 (Min/Max 26/33)
>> 191 G-Sense_Error_Rate      0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age  
>> Always       -       0
>> 192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age  
>> Always       -       9
>> 193 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   093   093   000    Old_age  
>> Always       -       14284
>> 194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   031   040   000    Old_age  
>> Always       -       31 (0 17 0 0 0)
>> 197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0012   100   100   000    Old_age  
>> Always       -       104
> 197
> this says there are 104 pending sectors i.e. bad blocks on the drive
> that have not been reallocatd yet

Wonder why it hasn't?  Isn't it supposed to do that sort of thing itself? 


>
>> 198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0010   100   100   000    Old_age  
>> Offline      -       104
> this says it was not able to reallocate. which is odd because of the
> entry 5 being zero

Uh oh. 

>
>> 199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count    0x003e   200   200   000    Old_age  
>> Always       -       0
>> 240 Head_Flying_Hours       0x0000   100   253   000    Old_age  
>> Offline      -       15955h+37m+28.932s
>> 241 Total_LBAs_Written      0x0000   100   253   000    Old_age  
>> Offline      -       52221690631887
>> 242 Total_LBAs_Read         0x0000   100   253   000    Old_age  
>> Offline      -       74848968465606
>>
>> SMART Error Log Version: 1
>> No Errors Logged
>>
>> SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
>> Num  Test_Description    Status                  Remaining 
>> LifeTime(hours)  LBA_of_first_error
>> # 1  Extended offline    Completed: read failure       60%    
>> 16365         2905482560
>> # 2  Extended offline    Completed: read failure       60%    
>> 16352         2905482560
>> # 3  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%     
>> 8044         -
>> # 4  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%     
>> 3121         -
>> # 5  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%     
>> 1548         -
>> # 6  Short offline       Completed without error       00%     
>> 1141         -
>> # 7  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%      
>> 719         -
>> # 8  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%      
>> 525         -
>> # 9  Short offline       Completed without error       00%      
>> 516         -
>> #10  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%       
>> 18         -
>> #11  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%        
>> 5         -
>> #12  Short offline       Completed without error       00%        
>> 0         -
>>
>> SMART Selective self-test log data structure revision number 1
>>  SPAN  MIN_LBA  MAX_LBA  CURRENT_TEST_STATUS
>>     1        0        0  Not_testing
>>     2        0        0  Not_testing
>>     3        0        0  Not_testing
>>     4        0        0  Not_testing
>>     5        0        0  Not_testing
>> Selective self-test flags (0x0):
>>   After scanning selected spans, do NOT read-scan remainder of disk.
>> If Selective self-test is pending on power-up, resume after 0 minute delay.
>>
>> root@fireball / #
>>  
>> Does that help shed any light on this situation?   If you need more
>> info, just let me know.  Off to newegg.  BRB 
>>
>> Dale
>>
>> :-)  :-) 
>>
> 104 bad blocks is not a sign of a happy disk.
> i would replace urgently
>
> also consider running smartd or a smartmonitor plugin for munin as the
> test log suggests you last ran a test after the first year of usage
>
>

I usually just run the test manually but I sort of had family stuff
going on for the past year, almost a year anyway.  Sort of behind on
things although I have been doing my normal updates. 

I ordered a drive.  It should be here tomorrow.  In the meantime, I
shutdown and re-seated all the cables, power too. I got the test running
again but results is a few hours off yet.  It did pass the short test
tho.  I'm not sure that it means much. 

Thanks much.

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Rich Freeman]

On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 9:15 AM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> thegeezer wrote:
>> On 06/25/2014 08:49 AM, Dale wrote:

>>> thegeezer wrote:

>> this says there are 104 pending sectors i.e. bad blocks on the drive
>> that have not been reallocatd yet
>
> Wonder why it hasn't?  Isn't it supposed to do that sort of thing itself?
>

It can't relocate the sectors until it successfully reads them, or
until something else writes over them.

However, the last few drives I've had this happen to never really
relocated things.  If I scrubbed the drives mdadm would overwrite the
unreadable sectors, which should trigger a relocation, but then a day
or two later the errors would show up again.  So, the drive firmware
must be avoiding relocation or something.  Either that or there is a
large region of the drive that is failing (which would make sense) and
I was just playing whack-a-mole with the bad sectors.  In any case, if
the drive is under warranty I've yet to have a complaint returning it
with a copy of the smartctl output showing the failed test/etc.  With
advance replacement I can keep the old drive until the new one
arrives.

> I usually just run the test manually but I sort of had family stuff
> going on for the past year, almost a year anyway.  Sort of behind on
> things although I have been doing my normal updates.

rc-update add smartd default

I don't know that I even had to configure it - it is set to email
root@localhost when there is a problem.  I also run mdadm to monitor
raid.

I don't think anybody makes a monitor for btrfs, though my boot is
mirrored across all my btrfs drives using mdadm so a drive failure
should be detected in any case.  I need to check up on that, though -
I'd like an email if something goes wrong with btrfs storage.

>
> I ordered a drive.  It should be here tomorrow.  In the meantime, I
> shutdown and re-seated all the cables, power too. I got the test running
> again but results is a few hours off yet.  It did pass the short test
> tho.  I'm not sure that it means much.

Short test generally doesn't do much - you need the long ones.  I'd be
shocked if it passed with offline uncorrectable sectors.

And do check on your warranty.  You can migrate all your data to the
new drive, and then replace the old one as a backup disk.  Either use
it with raid, or as an offline backup.  If you want to do raid you can
set up mdadm with a degraded raid1 so that you can copy your data over
from your old drive, and then when it is replaced you just partition
the new one, add it to the raid, and watch it rebuild automatically.

Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Dale]

Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 9:15 AM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>> thegeezer wrote:
>>> On 06/25/2014 08:49 AM, Dale wrote:
>>>> thegeezer wrote:
>>> this says there are 104 pending sectors i.e. bad blocks on the drive
>>> that have not been reallocatd yet
>> Wonder why it hasn't?  Isn't it supposed to do that sort of thing itself?
>>
> It can't relocate the sectors until it successfully reads them, or
> until something else writes over them.
>
> However, the last few drives I've had this happen to never really
> relocated things.  If I scrubbed the drives mdadm would overwrite the
> unreadable sectors, which should trigger a relocation, but then a day
> or two later the errors would show up again.  So, the drive firmware
> must be avoiding relocation or something.  Either that or there is a
> large region of the drive that is failing (which would make sense) and
> I was just playing whack-a-mole with the bad sectors.  In any case, if
> the drive is under warranty I've yet to have a complaint returning it
> with a copy of the smartctl output showing the failed test/etc.  With
> advance replacement I can keep the old drive until the new one
> arrives.

I'm going to bet this drive is out of warranty.  I'm pretty sure it is
over 2 years since I bought it. 

Once I replace that drive, I'll dd the thing and see what it does then. 
It'll either break it or give me a fresh start to play with and see how
long it lasts.


>> I usually just run the test manually but I sort of had family stuff
>> going on for the past year, almost a year anyway.  Sort of behind on
>> things although I have been doing my normal updates.
> rc-update add smartd default
>
> I don't know that I even had to configure it - it is set to email
> root@localhost when there is a problem.  I also run mdadm to monitor
> raid.
>
> I don't think anybody makes a monitor for btrfs, though my boot is
> mirrored across all my btrfs drives using mdadm so a drive failure
> should be detected in any case.  I need to check up on that, though -
> I'd like an email if something goes wrong with btrfs storage.

I'm using lvm here.  I also don't have a mail server set up which is why
I run them manually.   I usually do it once a month or so but had some
family issues to pop up. 


>> I ordered a drive.  It should be here tomorrow.  In the meantime, I
>> shutdown and re-seated all the cables, power too. I got the test running
>> again but results is a few hours off yet.  It did pass the short test
>> tho.  I'm not sure that it means much.
> Short test generally doesn't do much - you need the long ones.  I'd be
> shocked if it passed with offline uncorrectable sectors.
>
> And do check on your warranty.  You can migrate all your data to the
> new drive, and then replace the old one as a backup disk.  Either use
> it with raid, or as an offline backup.  If you want to do raid you can
> set up mdadm with a degraded raid1 so that you can copy your data over
> from your old drive, and then when it is replaced you just partition
> the new one, add it to the raid, and watch it rebuild automatically.
>
> Rich
>
>

I figured the short test wouldn't say much.  I am backing up some of the
stuff tho.  I do have a 750GB drive that was empty.  It won't save it
all but it is a start.  Test should have been done by now but I guess
the copy process is slowing it down.  I'm getting this so far:

# 1  Extended offline    Self-test routine in progress 70%    
16387         - 

< dale twiddles his thumbs >

Thanks much.

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 10:54:51 -0500, Dale wrote:

> I'm using lvm here.  I also don't have a mail server set up which is why
> I run them manually. 

Install a simple forwarding MTA like ssmtp to have al mails from cron and
friends sent to your ISP mailbox.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Beware! The end is... <aaarrgh!>

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Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Mick]

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On Wednesday 25 Jun 2014 17:09:52 Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 10:54:51 -0500, Dale wrote:
> > I'm using lvm here.  I also don't have a mail server set up which is why
> > I run them manually.
> 
> Install a simple forwarding MTA like ssmtp to have al mails from cron and
> friends sent to your ISP mailbox.

... and when you find out please tell us:

1) What syntax is appropriate to allow the use of mail account passwds which 
contain not just alphanumeric characters but also symbols like [~@#$] ?

2) How can you force it to NOT use RC4 cipher when it logs into Google Mail to 
relay messages, but the more secure ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 that the 
server proposes ?

-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 17:44:48 +0100, Mick wrote:

> > Install a simple forwarding MTA like ssmtp to have all mails from cron
> > and friends sent to your ISP mailbox.  
> 
> ... and when you find out please tell us:
> 
> 1) What syntax is appropriate to allow the use of mail account passwds
> which contain not just alphanumeric characters but also symbols like
> [~@#$] ?
> 
> 2) How can you force it to NOT use RC4 cipher when it logs into Google
> Mail to relay messages, but the more secure ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256
> that the server proposes ?

It's debatable whether either of those scenarios fall within the
definition of "simple". If something that simple won't do what you want,
and there are several to try: ssmtp, esmtp, nullmailer etc, then you may
need to use the likes of Postfix - but for Dale's situation, a lightweight
forwarder is better than not being able to monitor his system.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

I thought the 10 commandments were multiple choice.

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Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Dale]

Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 17:44:48 +0100, Mick wrote:
>
>>> Install a simple forwarding MTA like ssmtp to have all mails from cron
>>> and friends sent to your ISP mailbox.  
>> ... and when you find out please tell us:
>>
>> 1) What syntax is appropriate to allow the use of mail account passwds
>> which contain not just alphanumeric characters but also symbols like
>> [~@#$] ?
>>
>> 2) How can you force it to NOT use RC4 cipher when it logs into Google
>> Mail to relay messages, but the more secure ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256
>> that the server proposes ?
> It's debatable whether either of those scenarios fall within the
> definition of "simple". If something that simple won't do what you want,
> and there are several to try: ssmtp, esmtp, nullmailer etc, then you may
> need to use the likes of Postfix - but for Dale's situation, a lightweight
> forwarder is better than not being able to monitor his system.
>
>


I have to say, I dread setting up a mail server about as bad as I dread
going to the Doctor.  It's just something I really don't want to add to
my system unless I have to.  It's sort of like the init thingy.  I don't
want to add something else that will eventually break and I'll have to
fix.  The mail system won't keep me from booting but it is just one more
thing to keep a eye on and make sure it is working.  So, making sure the
mail system is working will likely take up the same amount of time that
checking the drive manually every month or so will take.  The only good
part is, and this is the point you are making so well, even tho I had
other things going on, it would have been testing my drive and spit out
a error to get my attention.  Going back, the error has been there for a
while.  It would have been nice to know this before now.   Hindsight
again.  ;-)

What I really need to do, set up a RAID or some other backup method so
that even if this happens again, I don't risk losing anything.  Then
again, that will take time as well.  Also takes money.

From df -h:

Filesystem                 Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/mapper/home-home      2.7T  1.5T  1.3T  56% /home

Most of that is recorded TV shows, movies etc.  I also have some pics I
took with my camera that can't be replaced.  Those I backup to DVDs
pretty regular.  I use kbackup to tarball them and then burn them to
DVDs.  It works.  One set is outside the home in case of fire.  The
biggest thing is some of those shows would be hard to get again plus the
effort to get them as well.

Let's hope it lasts until at least tomorrow.  I bet it takes a while to
copy all that tho.  O_O

Thanks.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Rich Freeman]

On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 6:16 PM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> What I really need to do, set up a RAID or some other backup method so
> that even if this happens again, I don't risk losing anything.  Then
> again, that will take time as well.  Also takes money.

Keep in mind that RAID is more about speed of recovery and protects
against the failure mode of total drive failure, which is a fairly
common failure mode.  A hard drive failure on a RAID involves no
unplanned downtime, and a need for some short planned downtime to
replace the drive.

Backup protects against a lot more, but typically results in a
recovery that takes hours, and when the drive goes you're down without
warning.

>
> Most of that is recorded TV shows, movies etc.  I also have some pics I
> took with my camera that can't be replaced.  Those I backup to DVDs
> pretty regular.  I use kbackup to tarball them and then burn them to
> DVDs.  It works.  One set is outside the home in case of fire.  The
> biggest thing is some of those shows would be hard to get again plus the
> effort to get them as well.

So, stuff like photos I backup to the cloud, or to offsite media
(generally I favor the cloud for active stuff, and offsite media for
stuff I'm done with).  Ditto for things like /etc, mysql, documents,
email, and other small but important things.

For stuff like MythTV recordings I used to just rely on RAID -
recognizing that there was a very real possibility that I could lose
them all.  Now I also do a backup to a drive that is normally left
unmounted, which isn't great, but since I moved to btrfs I wanted
something on ext4 that had daily rsnapshots.  Again, I'm willing to
risk losing this stuff.

Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Dale]

Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 6:16 PM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>> What I really need to do, set up a RAID or some other backup method so
>> that even if this happens again, I don't risk losing anything.  Then
>> again, that will take time as well.  Also takes money.
> Keep in mind that RAID is more about speed of recovery and protects
> against the failure mode of total drive failure, which is a fairly
> common failure mode.  A hard drive failure on a RAID involves no
> unplanned downtime, and a need for some short planned downtime to
> replace the drive.
>
> Backup protects against a lot more, but typically results in a
> recovery that takes hours, and when the drive goes you're down without
> warning.

True.  My issue with RAID is that it is yet another thing I have to
maintain.  I started using lvm and so far, it has been low maintenance
and has made changing things MUCH easier when I do need to move things
around a bit.  It is a time saver to be more accurate.  RAID also leaves
me open to theft, house fire and such too.  At the moment, I think, like
you, having a external drive that I keep somewhere else is the safest
method.  Thing is, getting a drive big enough to do this. Buying this
drive put a dent in my debt.  That said, I really need to buy another
drive if this old one turns out to be bad and set up some sort of backup
plan.  If it turns out to be OK somehow, then I may have a solution,
maybe. 

While I don't want to lose anything, my camera pics is the most
important to keep.  That's why I rotate backups and keep one set outside
the house.  I would rather not lose my videos and could get most of them
back but it won't be easy for sure. 


>> Most of that is recorded TV shows, movies etc.  I also have some pics I
>> took with my camera that can't be replaced.  Those I backup to DVDs
>> pretty regular.  I use kbackup to tarball them and then burn them to
>> DVDs.  It works.  One set is outside the home in case of fire.  The
>> biggest thing is some of those shows would be hard to get again plus the
>> effort to get them as well.
> So, stuff like photos I backup to the cloud, or to offsite media
> (generally I favor the cloud for active stuff, and offsite media for
> stuff I'm done with).  Ditto for things like /etc, mysql, documents,
> email, and other small but important things.
>
> For stuff like MythTV recordings I used to just rely on RAID -
> recognizing that there was a very real possibility that I could lose
> them all.  Now I also do a backup to a drive that is normally left
> unmounted, which isn't great, but since I moved to btrfs I wanted
> something on ext4 that had daily rsnapshots.  Again, I'm willing to
> risk losing this stuff.
>
> Rich
>
>

I don't have anything on the cloud to backup too.  That would likely be
a good idea but I can't afford anything pricey, which is why I hadn't
bought a backup drive before now either.  Plus, something I'd prefer to
keep under my thumb.  Heck, some things here are encrypted, bank info
and such.  Also, while I have DSL, it ain't real speedy.  Backing up
that much data over my connection could take a while, like days, maybe
even a week or more. 

I really do need a plan that I can manage to put in place tho.  Murphy's
law and all.  :-D 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Rich Freeman]

On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 10:07 PM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> Rich Freeman wrote:
> I don't have anything on the cloud to backup too.  That would likely be
> a good idea but I can't afford anything pricey, which is why I hadn't
> bought a backup drive before now either.  Plus, something I'd prefer to
> keep under my thumb.  Heck, some things here are encrypted, bank info
> and such.  Also, while I have DSL, it ain't real speedy.  Backing up
> that much data over my connection could take a while, like days, maybe
> even a week or more.


I put my backups on Amazon S3 reduced-redundancy - it is a few cents
per GB per month.  I think I have something like 20-30GB backed up.
Oh, if you need to actually retrieve it that will cost you 10 cents
per GB, but frankly if my house burned down that would be the least of
my concerns.

I'd only use the cloud to back up critical data.  If you want to back
up your mythtv and mp3 collection, then you're going to be uploading a
LOT of data and paying quite a bit to store it.  If you want to be
storing TB of data offsite there are better ways of doing it.

The advantage of something like S3 is that it is always there, which
means you stick a duplicity script in your crontab and just
periodically check up on it.  You don't have to remember to do your
backups.  It just isn't practical to use it for more than a few dozen
GB depending on your incremental strategy.

I also have a 50Mbps outbound connection, which doesn't hurt.

Your next best option is to find a friend with similar needs and give
each other a place to upload your encrypted backups to.  That will
just cost you drive space, but if you're both planning on backing up
1TB of data it will still cost you the one-time drive purchase.

If you want a quick cloud-capable backup solution, I'd look at
duplicity.  I just wish it had options for Google Drive (it supposedly
does, but as far as I can tell it doesn't work, at least not with a
two factor application password).

Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Dale]

Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 10:07 PM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Rich Freeman wrote:
>> I don't have anything on the cloud to backup too.  That would likely be
>> a good idea but I can't afford anything pricey, which is why I hadn't
>> bought a backup drive before now either.  Plus, something I'd prefer to
>> keep under my thumb.  Heck, some things here are encrypted, bank info
>> and such.  Also, while I have DSL, it ain't real speedy.  Backing up
>> that much data over my connection could take a while, like days, maybe
>> even a week or more.
>
> I put my backups on Amazon S3 reduced-redundancy - it is a few cents
> per GB per month.  I think I have something like 20-30GB backed up.
> Oh, if you need to actually retrieve it that will cost you 10 cents
> per GB, but frankly if my house burned down that would be the least of
> my concerns.
>
> I'd only use the cloud to back up critical data.  If you want to back
> up your mythtv and mp3 collection, then you're going to be uploading a
> LOT of data and paying quite a bit to store it.  If you want to be
> storing TB of data offsite there are better ways of doing it.

Outside my camera pics, I don't think I have anything that critical.  I
backed them up on 7 DVDs yesterday.  I been doing that for many years. 
Two sets just to be sure.  I also rotate the DVDs after a while too.  I
burn sysrescue ISOs to it or something. 


>
> The advantage of something like S3 is that it is always there, which
> means you stick a duplicity script in your crontab and just
> periodically check up on it.  You don't have to remember to do your
> backups.  It just isn't practical to use it for more than a few dozen
> GB depending on your incremental strategy.
>
> I also have a 50Mbps outbound connection, which doesn't hurt.

Downstream Rate  1536 (Kbits/Sec)
Upstream Rate  384 (Kbits/Sec)


While it ain't super fast, it beats dial-up and I remember those days
very well.  Still pretty slow to do backups over tho.  :/


>
> Your next best option is to find a friend with similar needs and give
> each other a place to upload your encrypted backups to.  That will
> just cost you drive space, but if you're both planning on backing up
> 1TB of data it will still cost you the one-time drive purchase.
>
> If you want a quick cloud-capable backup solution, I'd look at
> duplicity.  I just wish it had options for Google Drive (it supposedly
> does, but as far as I can tell it doesn't work, at least not with a
> two factor application password).
>
> Rich
>
>

I'm just going to try and buy another 3TB drive as soon as I can.  I may
even make it into a removable thingy.  Then I can make backups and just
put it in a outbuilding.  By the way, my outbuilding is pretty far from
the house.  A house fire wouldn't hurt it any.  I got so much junk in
there, a thief would shake his head and leave empty handed.  May even
cry at the thought of it. 

Working up a plan and hoping to work the plan. 

While at it.  Latest test results.  It finished a bit ago. 

root@fireball / # smartctl -l selftest /dev/sdc
smartctl 6.1 2013-03-16 r3800 [x86_64-linux-3.14.0-gentoo] (local build)
Copyright (C) 2002-13, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, www.smartmontools.org

=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
Num  Test_Description    Status                  Remaining 
LifeTime(hours)  LBA_of_first_error
# 1  Extended offline    Completed: read failure       60%    
16394         2905482560
# 2  Extended offline    Completed: read failure       60%    
16389         2905482560

It is still rolling over.  It should throw up its feet any day now.  :-( 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Frank Steinmetzger]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1647 bytes --]

On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 11:57:55PM -0500, Dale wrote:

> I'm just going to try and buy another 3TB drive as soon as I can.  I may
> even make it into a removable thingy.  Then I can make backups and just
> put it in a outbuilding.  By the way, my outbuilding is pretty far from

For such use, I am planning to get an external SATA dock, rather than use
a “removable thingy”. You pop in the naked drive and stow that away after
you’re done. This has multiple advantages. For one, you can read SMART data
from the external drives, provided you use a SATA connection. Cou can’t do
that over USB. So if your board has an eSATA connector, get an external dock
such as <http://www.sharkoon.com/?q=en/node/1277>.
If it doesn’t, you can get an internal one for a 5¼″ slot in the front of
your case, like http://www.sharkoon.com/?q=en/node/1281 for one 3.5″ HDD, or
http://www.sharkoon.com/?q=en/content/sata-qp-intern-multi for both big and
small HDDs (plus some USB3 connectors, if your case doesn’t have them but
your board provides a header).

Those docks are only slightly more expensive than an external case, but you
can use them for all your drives, not just a single one, and you have no
hassle with countless external power supplies (“which one did go into which
case?”).

PS: I’m not saying you should get a Sharkoon, after all I haven’t bought it
yet myself. But their site shows nicely what’s available and gives me ideas.
--
Gruß | Greetings | Qapla’
Please do not share anything from, with or about me on any social network.

Please don’t befuddle me with facts, my mind is set.

[-- Attachment #2: Digital signature --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 836 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Dale]

Frank Steinmetzger wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 11:57:55PM -0500, Dale wrote:
>
>> I'm just going to try and buy another 3TB drive as soon as I can.  I may
>> even make it into a removable thingy.  Then I can make backups and just
>> put it in a outbuilding.  By the way, my outbuilding is pretty far from
> For such use, I am planning to get an external SATA dock, rather than use
> a “removable thingy”. You pop in the naked drive and stow that away after
> you’re done. This has multiple advantages. For one, you can read SMART data
> from the external drives, provided you use a SATA connection. Cou can’t do
> that over USB. So if your board has an eSATA connector, get an external dock
> such as <http://www.sharkoon.com/?q=en/node/1277>.
> If it doesn’t, you can get an internal one for a 5¼″ slot in the front of
> your case, like http://www.sharkoon.com/?q=en/node/1281 for one 3.5″ HDD, or
> http://www.sharkoon.com/?q=en/content/sata-qp-intern-multi for both big and
> small HDDs (plus some USB3 connectors, if your case doesn’t have them but
> your board provides a header).
>
> Those docks are only slightly more expensive than an external case, but you
> can use them for all your drives, not just a single one, and you have no
> hassle with countless external power supplies (“which one did go into which
> case?”).
>
> PS: I’m not saying you should get a Sharkoon, after all I haven’t bought it
> yet myself. But their site shows nicely what’s available and gives me ideas.
> --
> Gruß | Greetings | Qapla’
> Please do not share anything from, with or about me on any social network.
>
> Please don’t befuddle me with facts, my mind is set.

I been wanting to get me something external but hadn't got around to
looking yet.  I didn't know they have a SATA version.  I plan to avoid
USB if I can.  From my understanding, eSATA can be hotplugged and I have
a couple of those connections. 

Thanks for the info.  It put me on a different path. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Helmut Jarausch]

On 07/01/2014 10:30:44 AM, Dale wrote:
> 
> I been wanting to get me something external but hadn't got around to
> looking yet.  I didn't know they have a SATA version.  I plan to avoid
> USB if I can.  From my understanding, eSATA can be hotplugged and I  
> have
> a couple of those connections.
> 

I 'believe' that eSATA is dead - just look how few products are  
available.
I have 3 USB-3 drives which are very fast (more than 100 MB/sec) and
if your motherboard doesn't have an USB-3 adapter, yet, it's very cheap.

Helmut.

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Dale]

Helmut Jarausch wrote:
> On 07/01/2014 10:30:44 AM, Dale wrote:
>>
>> I been wanting to get me something external but hadn't got around to
>> looking yet.  I didn't know they have a SATA version.  I plan to avoid
>> USB if I can.  From my understanding, eSATA can be hotplugged and I have
>> a couple of those connections.
>>
>
> I 'believe' that eSATA is dead - just look how few products are
> available.
> I have 3 USB-3 drives which are very fast (more than 100 MB/sec) and
> if your motherboard doesn't have an USB-3 adapter, yet, it's very cheap.
>
> Helmut

I do have a few USB3 connectors.  I just figured USB would be a good bit
slower.  Plus, can USB power a 3.5" hard drive nowadays? 

root@fireball / # hdparm -tT /dev/sdb

/dev/sdb:
 Timing cached reads:   6604 MB in  2.00 seconds = 3303.39 MB/sec
 Timing buffered disk reads: 542 MB in  3.01 seconds = 180.33 MB/sec
root@fireball / #

I did find a eSATA enclosure on Newegg and the price wasn't bad.  It's
one option I guess. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Helmut Jarausch]

On 07/01/2014 10:58:45 AM, Dale wrote:
> Helmut Jarausch wrote:
> > On 07/01/2014 10:30:44 AM, Dale wrote:
> >>
> >> I been wanting to get me something external but hadn't got around  
> to
> >> looking yet.  I didn't know they have a SATA version.  I plan to  
> avoid
> >> USB if I can.  From my understanding, eSATA can be hotplugged and  
> I have
> >> a couple of those connections.
> >>
> >
> > I 'believe' that eSATA is dead - just look how few products are
> > available.
> > I have 3 USB-3 drives which are very fast (more than 100 MB/sec) and
> > if your motherboard doesn't have an USB-3 adapter, yet, it's very  
> cheap.
> >
> > Helmut
> 
> I do have a few USB3 connectors.  I just figured USB would be a good  
> bit
> slower.  Plus, can USB power a 3.5" hard drive nowadays?

Probably not. All of my external USB3 disks have a separate power  
supply.
> 
> root@fireball / # hdparm -tT /dev/sdb
> 
> /dev/sdb:
>  Timing cached reads:   6604 MB in  2.00 seconds = 3303.39 MB/sec
>  Timing buffered disk reads: 542 MB in  3.01 seconds = 180.33 MB/sec
> root@fireball / #

Try a real life example like dd. I have seen the above mentioned speed
on disks with a file system on it which does limit the speed anyway.

> 
> I did find a eSATA enclosure on Newegg and the price wasn't bad.  It's
> one option I guess.
> 
> Dale
> 
> :-)  :-)
> 
> 
> 

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[J. Roeleveld]

On Tuesday, July 01, 2014 11:06:59 AM Helmut Jarausch wrote:
> On 07/01/2014 10:58:45 AM, Dale wrote:
> > Helmut Jarausch wrote:
> > > On 07/01/2014 10:30:44 AM, Dale wrote:
> > >> I been wanting to get me something external but hadn't got around
> > 
> > to
> > 
> > >> looking yet.  I didn't know they have a SATA version.  I plan to
> > 
> > avoid
> > 
> > >> USB if I can.  From my understanding, eSATA can be hotplugged and
> > 
> > I have
> > 
> > >> a couple of those connections.
> > > 
> > > I 'believe' that eSATA is dead - just look how few products are
> > > available.
> > > I have 3 USB-3 drives which are very fast (more than 100 MB/sec) and
> > > if your motherboard doesn't have an USB-3 adapter, yet, it's very
> > 
> > cheap.
> > 
> > > Helmut
> > 
> > I do have a few USB3 connectors.  I just figured USB would be a good
> > bit
> > slower.  Plus, can USB power a 3.5" hard drive nowadays?
> 
> Probably not. All of my external USB3 disks have a separate power
> supply.

I only know of 2.5" USB-drivers that are powered via the same USB-cable.
Never seen 3.5" ones that are USB-powered.

I use 2.5" drives for my backups, as they are designed for laptop use, I have 
the feeling they are a bit more robust when it comes to accidental bumps.

> > root@fireball / # hdparm -tT /dev/sdb
> > 
> > /dev/sdb:
> >  Timing cached reads:   6604 MB in  2.00 seconds = 3303.39 MB/sec
> >  Timing buffered disk reads: 542 MB in  3.01 seconds = 180.33 MB/sec
> > 
> > root@fireball / #
> 
> Try a real life example like dd. I have seen the above mentioned speed
> on disks with a file system on it which does limit the speed anyway.

+1

--
Joost

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Dale]

J. Roeleveld wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 01, 2014 11:06:59 AM Helmut Jarausch wrote:
>> On 07/01/2014 10:58:45 AM, Dale wrote:
>> Probably not. All of my external USB3 disks have a separate power
>> supply. 
> I only know of 2.5" USB-drivers that are powered via the same USB-cable.
> Never seen 3.5" ones that are USB-powered.
>
> I use 2.5" drives for my backups, as they are designed for laptop use, I have 
> the feeling they are a bit more robust when it comes to accidental bumps.

I thought those things looked like they had their own power.  Neat. 


>
>>> root@fireball / # hdparm -tT /dev/sdb
>>>
>>> /dev/sdb:
>>>  Timing cached reads:   6604 MB in  2.00 seconds = 3303.39 MB/sec
>>>  Timing buffered disk reads: 542 MB in  3.01 seconds = 180.33 MB/sec
>>>
>>> root@fireball / #
>> Try a real life example like dd. I have seen the above mentioned speed
>> on disks with a file system on it which does limit the speed anyway.
> +1
>
> --
> Joost
>
>

I watched the dd process when I was erasing the old drive.  I got about
the same results.  It started out a little over 200 and went as low as
170 or so close to the end.  On average, about what hdparm shows.  Close
enough it seems.  ;-)

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[J. Roeleveld]

On Tuesday, July 01, 2014 04:21:45 AM Dale wrote:
> J. Roeleveld wrote:
> >>> root@fireball / # hdparm -tT /dev/sdb
> >>> 
> >>> /dev/sdb:
> >>>  Timing cached reads:   6604 MB in  2.00 seconds = 3303.39 MB/sec
> >>>  Timing buffered disk reads: 542 MB in  3.01 seconds = 180.33 MB/sec
> >>> 
> >>> root@fireball / #
> >> 
> >> Try a real life example like dd. I have seen the above mentioned speed
> >> on disks with a file system on it which does limit the speed anyway.
> > 
> > +1
> > 
> > --
> > Joost
> 
> I watched the dd process when I was erasing the old drive.  I got about
> the same results.  It started out a little over 200 and went as low as
> 170 or so close to the end.  On average, about what hdparm shows.  Close
> enough it seems.  ;-)

Yep, but do the same after adding a filesystem to the mix?
Eg. mount it somewhere, then dd to a file on that drive.

--
Joost

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Dale]

J. Roeleveld wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 01, 2014 04:21:45 AM Dale wrote:
>>
>> I watched the dd process when I was erasing the old drive.  I got about
>> the same results.  It started out a little over 200 and went as low as
>> 170 or so close to the end.  On average, about what hdparm shows.  Close
>> enough it seems.  ;-)
> Yep, but do the same after adding a filesystem to the mix?
> Eg. mount it somewhere, then dd to a file on that drive.
>
> --
> Joost
>
>

I've only ever use dd to blank a drive.  I never used it to copy
anything.  While dd may be a bit faster in my use, having a file system
is a more realistic use. I think a file system would slow things down a
bit, maybe not much since file systems are pretty fast nowadays.  Thing
is, I'm fairly sure USB won't be as fast as a straight SATA connection. 
That is one reason I would rather use SATA connections instead.  That
was also the reason I posted that info.  It shows that on my rig here, I
can likely copy faster than USB with a SATA connection.  The speed I
posted is a good bit faster than what Helmut posted even tho his was a
general amount.  Unless Helmut has a older, slower machine then I
wouldn't expect mine to be much if any faster than his.  Basically, USB
would be a bottleneck that I might can avoid and my mobo supports eSATA
connections.  . 

I'm not trying to benchmark, just give a general idea.  What hdparm
gives me is pretty close to what dd was giving and not to far off from
what I get when doing a copy with cp or rsync.  I been doing a good bit
of copying here lately.  I do have a drive that is the older SATA but
most are the newer and faster SATA. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[J. Roeleveld]

On Tuesday, July 01, 2014 03:30:44 AM Dale wrote:
> Frank Steinmetzger wrote:
> > On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 11:57:55PM -0500, Dale wrote:
> >> I'm just going to try and buy another 3TB drive as soon as I can.  I may
> >> even make it into a removable thingy.  Then I can make backups and just
> >> put it in a outbuilding.  By the way, my outbuilding is pretty far from
> > 
> > For such use, I am planning to get an external SATA dock, rather than use
> > a “removable thingy”. You pop in the naked drive and stow that away after
> > you’re done. This has multiple advantages. For one, you can read SMART
> > data
> > from the external drives, provided you use a SATA connection. Cou can’t do
> > that over USB. So if your board has an eSATA connector, get an external
> > dock such as <http://www.sharkoon.com/?q=en/node/1277>.
> > If it doesn’t, you can get an internal one for a 5¼″ slot in the front of
> > your case, like http://www.sharkoon.com/?q=en/node/1281 for one 3.5″ HDD,
> > or http://www.sharkoon.com/?q=en/content/sata-qp-intern-multi for both
> > big and small HDDs (plus some USB3 connectors, if your case doesn’t have
> > them but your board provides a header).
> > 
> > Those docks are only slightly more expensive than an external case, but
> > you
> > can use them for all your drives, not just a single one, and you have no
> > hassle with countless external power supplies (“which one did go into
> > which
> > case?”).
> > 
> > PS: I’m not saying you should get a Sharkoon, after all I haven’t bought
> > it
> > yet myself. But their site shows nicely what’s available and gives me
> > ideas. --
> > Gruß | Greetings | Qapla’
> > Please do not share anything from, with or about me on any social network.
> > 
> > Please don’t befuddle me with facts, my mind is set.
> 
> I been wanting to get me something external but hadn't got around to
> looking yet.  I didn't know they have a SATA version.  I plan to avoid
> USB if I can.  From my understanding, eSATA can be hotplugged and I have
> a couple of those connections.
> 
> Thanks for the info.  It put me on a different path.

This one comes with an eSATA connection:
http://www.sharkoon.com/?q=en/content/sata-quickport-pro

The following comes with eSATA and network connection (might be an option?)
http://www.sharkoon.com/?q=en/content/sata-qp-pro-lan-giga

I have no idea if the network option works easily with Linux as I don't own 
either of these 2.
I do know these devices work as advertised when used with USB. 

--
Joost

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Neil Bothwick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 797 bytes --]

On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 17:16:17 -0500, Dale wrote:

> >>> Install a simple forwarding MTA like ssmtp to have all mails from
> >>> cron and friends sent to your ISP mailbox.  

> I have to say, I dread setting up a mail server about as bad as I dread
> going to the Doctor.  It's just something I really don't want to add to
> my system unless I have to.

Which is why I suggesting something like ssmtp, which you can't call  a
server, it just forwards. Often the only configuration needed is changing
one line in ssmtp.conf, to the address of your ISP's mail server.

That's it, now any program can send mail using sendmail and it just goes
to your ISP mailbox.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t,"
and there was light.

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 181 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Dale]

Neil Bothwick wrote:
>
>> I have to say, I dread setting up a mail server about as bad as I dread
>> going to the Doctor.  It's just something I really don't want to add to
>> my system unless I have to.
> Which is why I suggesting something like ssmtp, which you can't call  a
> server, it just forwards. Often the only configuration needed is changing
> one line in ssmtp.conf, to the address of your ISP's mail server.
>
> That's it, now any program can send mail using sendmail and it just goes
> to your ISP mailbox.
>
>

I like this part:

"Extremely simple MTA to get mail off the system to a Mailhub"

  ^^^^^  That part right up there.  :-D  That may be a new thread, if
needed.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Mick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: Text/Plain, Size: 2111 bytes --]

On Thursday 26 Jun 2014 03:15:54 Dale wrote:
> Neil Bothwick wrote:
> >> I have to say, I dread setting up a mail server about as bad as I dread
> >> going to the Doctor.  It's just something I really don't want to add to
> >> my system unless I have to.
> > 
> > Which is why I suggesting something like ssmtp, which you can't call  a
> > server, it just forwards. Often the only configuration needed is changing
> > one line in ssmtp.conf, to the address of your ISP's mail server.
> > 
> > That's it, now any program can send mail using sendmail and it just goes
> > to your ISP mailbox.
> 
> I like this part:
> 
> "Extremely simple MTA to get mail off the system to a Mailhub"
> 
>   ^^^^^  That part right up there.  :-D  That may be a new thread, if
> needed.

Try this basic setup in your /etc/ssmtp/ssmtp.conf:
============================================================

root=dale@gmail.com  #Change to your preferred email address

mailhub=smtp.gmail.com:465  #Could also use port 587 for STARTTLS

rewriteDomain=dales_smoker.shack  #Something to denote your machine's name

FromLineOverride=YES

UseTLS=YES  #Can also try UseSTARTTLS=YES as an alternative

AuthUser=dale@gmail.com
AuthPass=dalesgmails3cr3tpasswd #Special characters seem to barf with ssmtp
============================================================

Sort out access rights to 0604, since it now contains your mail passwd 
unencrypted:

# ls -la /etc/ssmtp/ssmtp.conf
-rw-r----- 1 root ssmtp 1696 May 19 23:40 /etc/ssmtp/ssmtp.conf

Add this in your /etc/ssmtp/revaliases:
=======================================
root:dale@gmail.com:smtp.gmail.com:465
dale:dale@gmail.com:smtp.gmail.com:465
other_user:dale@gmail.com:smtp.gmail.com:465
=======================================

Then ping a message to yourself as a test to see that all works fine:

echo "My first test message" | mail -v -s "Test for sSMTP 1" dale@gmail.com

It should then appear in your gmail account (Sent folder).  Set a label/filter 
to find such messages easily and you're done.

-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Mick]

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On Thursday 26 Jun 2014 06:56:26 Mick wrote:
> Sort out access rights to 0604

Oops!  Potentially dangerous typo!  Should be:  "0640" of course.

-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Dale]

Mick wrote:
> On Thursday 26 Jun 2014 06:56:26 Mick wrote:
>> Sort out access rights to 0604
> Oops!  Potentially dangerous typo!  Should be:  "0640" of course.
>

Picking a short one to reply too.

Holy sheep.  It worked.  I lost my jaw yesterday I think it was.  I'm
not sure what I am going to be missing now.  :-D  Neil and Allan will so
impressed.  LOL 

OK.  So, what will send me a message now?  Do I need to tell it to send
me something, say from smart stuff, or does it just know to do it?

I found this in messages:

Jun  8 03:10:02 localhost sSMTP[7164]: Unable to locate mail
Jun  8 03:10:02 localhost sSMTP[7164]: Cannot open mail:25
Jun  8 03:10:03 localhost CROND[7145]: (root) MAIL (mailed 57 bytes of
output but got status 0x0001) 

It seems that something was trying to email me.  Crond maybe?  It was at
the top of the file right after logrotate did its thing.  Could that be it?

Thanks much.  Going to look for missing body parts now.  Hmmm, maybe I
will find a better brain.  ;-) 

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Thu, 26 Jun 2014 09:14:39 -0500, Dale wrote:

> Holy sheep.  It worked.  I lost my jaw yesterday I think it was.  I'm
> not sure what I am going to be missing now.  :-D  Neil and Allan will so
> impressed.  LOL 
> 
> OK.  So, what will send me a message now?  Do I need to tell it to send
> me something, say from smart stuff, or does it just know to do it?

You tell cron where to mail reports by setting MAILTO=you@wherever at the
top of /etc/crontab. It will then mail you every time a cronjob produces
output.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

... "I just forgot to increment the counter," Tom said, nonplussed.

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Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Dale]

Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Jun 2014 09:14:39 -0500, Dale wrote:
>
>> Holy sheep.  It worked.  I lost my jaw yesterday I think it was.  I'm
>> not sure what I am going to be missing now.  :-D  Neil and Allan will so
>> impressed.  LOL 
>>
>> OK.  So, what will send me a message now?  Do I need to tell it to send
>> me something, say from smart stuff, or does it just know to do it?
> You tell cron where to mail reports by setting MAILTO=you@wherever at the
> top of /etc/crontab. It will then mail you every time a cronjob produces
> output.
>
>

Well, right now I am trying to get smartmon to send them since that is
pretty important and I have a error at the moment to really test it.  I
think I am having some success here.  I been googling and trying to sort
this thing out.  So far, I have this:

/dev/sda -a -d sat -o on -S on -s (S/../.././02|L/../../6/12) -m root
/dev/sdb -a -d sat -o on -S on -s (S/../.././02|L/../../6/12) -m root
/dev/sdc -a -d sat -o on -S on -s (S/../.././02|L/../../6/12) -m root

I changed it to testing during the day since I am usually sleeping then
and up at night.  Anyway, when I restart smartd, I get a email about the
error.  Yeppie!!!!  What I would like tho, it to just know to do this
for whatever drives are added/removed without me having to change the
config.  I bet there is a way to do that. 

Now, let me go check into that cron thing.  Is there anything else I
need to set up to send emails like this?  Smartd is working, about to
work on cron so what else usually tries to send a email?

I have got to go find those body parts I am losing.

Thanks much.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Mick]

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On Thursday 26 Jun 2014 16:08:52 Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Jun 2014 09:14:39 -0500, Dale wrote:
> > Holy sheep.  It worked.  I lost my jaw yesterday I think it was.  I'm
> > not sure what I am going to be missing now.  :-D  Neil and Allan will so
> > impressed.  LOL
> > 
> > OK.  So, what will send me a message now?  Do I need to tell it to send
> > me something, say from smart stuff, or does it just know to do it?
> 
> You tell cron where to mail reports by setting MAILTO=you@wherever at the
> top of /etc/crontab. It will then mail you every time a cronjob produces
> output.

Or complete the /etc/ssmtp/ssmtp.conf and revaliases with the info I have sent 
you in this thread and set MAILTO=root in your /etc/crontab.

I would think that your ISP providers in the US will be blocking outgoing port 
25 to stop compromised MSWindows machines spamming the rest of us.  If you use 
my suggestion there shouldn't be a problem.

If your internet connection is down for some reason, you should get deadletter 
files in /root/ with the output.

-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Fri, 27 Jun 2014 14:22:09 +0100, Mick wrote:

> > You tell cron where to mail reports by setting MAILTO=you@wherever at
> > the top of /etc/crontab. It will then mail you every time a cronjob
> > produces output.  
> 
> Or complete the /etc/ssmtp/ssmtp.conf and revaliases with the info I
> have sent you in this thread and set MAILTO=root in your /etc/crontab.
> 
> I would think that your ISP providers in the US will be blocking
> outgoing port 25 to stop compromised MSWindows machines spamming the
> rest of us.  If you use my suggestion there shouldn't be a problem.

It makes no difference whether you address it directly to your ISP
address or via an alias. The ISP won't block port 25 connections to its
own servers from its own customers, otherwise none of them could send
email at all!


-- 
Neil Bothwick

NOTE: In order to control energy costs the light at the end
of the tunnel has been shut off until further notice...

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[gentoo-user] Re: smartctrl drive error @60%

[Grant Edwards]

On 2014-06-27, Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Jun 2014 14:22:09 +0100, Mick wrote:
>
>>> You tell cron where to mail reports by setting MAILTO=you@wherever at
>>> the top of /etc/crontab. It will then mail you every time a cronjob
>>> produces output.  
>> 
>> Or complete the /etc/ssmtp/ssmtp.conf and revaliases with the info I
>> have sent you in this thread and set MAILTO=root in your
>> /etc/crontab.
>> 
>> I would think that your ISP providers in the US will be blocking
>> outgoing port 25 to stop compromised MSWindows machines spamming the
>> rest of us.  If you use my suggestion there shouldn't be a problem.
>
> It makes no difference whether you address it directly to your ISP
> address or via an alias. The ISP won't block port 25 connections to
> its own servers from its own customers, otherwise none of them could
> send email at all!

They _might_ block port 25 and require you to use SMTP/SSL on port
465.  More likely, they would still allow an initial plaintext
connection to port 25 and require use of the starttls command.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! I wonder if I could
                                  at               ever get started in the
                              gmail.com            credit world?

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: smartctrl drive error @60%

[Rich Freeman]

On Fri, Jun 27, 2014 at 5:26 PM, Grant Edwards
<grant.b.edwards@gmail.com> wrote:
> They _might_ block port 25 and require you to use SMTP/SSL on port
> 465.  More likely, they would still allow an initial plaintext
> connection to port 25 and require use of the starttls command.

Check with your ISP.  The rules vary.

I have Verizon FIOS and I'm pretty sure they block port 25 from their
own customers regardless of TLS.  I guess that must means the virus
writers have to write an extra 5 lines of code to extract the password
from the configuration of whatever email software is in use...

Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Mick]

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On Friday 27 Jun 2014 21:54:32 Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Jun 2014 14:22:09 +0100, Mick wrote:

> > I would think that your ISP providers in the US will be blocking
> > outgoing port 25 to stop compromised MSWindows machines spamming the
> > rest of us.  If you use my suggestion there shouldn't be a problem.
> 
> It makes no difference whether you address it directly to your ISP
> address or via an alias. The ISP won't block port 25 connections to its
> own servers from its own customers, otherwise none of them could send
> email at all!

In the US many big players are blocking outbound port 25 for their customers 
as a blanket measure to control spam from botnets, e.g.:

http://www.verizon.com/Support/Residential/internet/highspeed/general+support/top+questions/questionsone/124274.htm

If Dale uses the ssmtp.conf I sent he will be using a different port + TLS 
encryption and should not have a problem.

Even if Dale's ISP does not block port 25 for connections to the ISP's *own* 
mail servers, it may well block it to other providers' mail addresses for the 
same reason.  This was a common practice some years back (pre-Gmail) when ISP 
had started charging for mail services.

-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Sat, 28 Jun 2014 08:48:40 +0100, Mick wrote:

> > > I would think that your ISP providers in the US will be blocking
> > > outgoing port 25 to stop compromised MSWindows machines spamming the
> > > rest of us.  If you use my suggestion there shouldn't be a
> > > problem.  
> > 
> > It makes no difference whether you address it directly to your ISP
> > address or via an alias. The ISP won't block port 25 connections to
> > its own servers from its own customers, otherwise none of them could
> > send email at all!  
> 
> In the US many big players are blocking outbound port 25 for their
> customers as a blanket measure to control spam from botnets, e.g.:
> 
> http://www.verizon.com/Support/Residential/internet/highspeed/general+support/top+questions/questionsone/124274.htm

> If Dale uses the ssmtp.conf I sent he will be using a different port +
> TLS encryption and should not have a problem.

Yes, that makes sense. I thought you were referring to the aliases part
of the config. Using TLS or  a different port if that's what the ISP needs
is perfectly logical.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Bus: (n.) a connector you plug money into, something like a slot machine.

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Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Dale]

Mick wrote:
> On Friday 27 Jun 2014 21:54:32 Neil Bothwick wrote:
>> On Fri, 27 Jun 2014 14:22:09 +0100, Mick wrote:
>>> I would think that your ISP providers in the US will be blocking
>>> outgoing port 25 to stop compromised MSWindows machines spamming the
>>> rest of us.  If you use my suggestion there shouldn't be a problem.
>> It makes no difference whether you address it directly to your ISP
>> address or via an alias. The ISP won't block port 25 connections to its
>> own servers from its own customers, otherwise none of them could send
>> email at all!
> In the US many big players are blocking outbound port 25 for their customers 
> as a blanket measure to control spam from botnets, e.g.:
>
> http://www.verizon.com/Support/Residential/internet/highspeed/general+support/top+questions/questionsone/124274.htm
>
> If Dale uses the ssmtp.conf I sent he will be using a different port + TLS 
> encryption and should not have a problem.
>
> Even if Dale's ISP does not block port 25 for connections to the ISP's *own* 
> mail servers, it may well block it to other providers' mail addresses for the 
> same reason.  This was a common practice some years back (pre-Gmail) when ISP 
> had started charging for mail services.
>

According to the settings in Seamonkey, it should be port 995 and
SSL/TLS.   I used your "basic" setup which is port 465.  It works tho. 
:-) 

Dale

:-)  :-)

[gentoo-user] Re: smartctrl drive error @60%

[Alberto Luaces]

Mick writes:

> echo "My first test message" | mail -v -s "Test for sSMTP 1" dale@gmail.com

What about trying

echo "My first test message" | mail -v -s "Test for sSMTP 1" root

directly?  Therefore you can see if your aliases are correct.

-- 
Alberto

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 21:15:54 -0500, Dale wrote:

> I like this part:
> 
> "Extremely simple MTA to get mail off the system to a Mailhub"
> 
>   ^^^^^  That part right up there.  :-D  That may be a new thread, if
> needed.

My first thought was "even Dale can't have problems with that".

I soon reconsidered...


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Voting Democrat or Republican is like choosing a cabin in the Titanic.

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Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Dale]

Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 21:15:54 -0500, Dale wrote:
>
>> I like this part:
>>
>> "Extremely simple MTA to get mail off the system to a Mailhub"
>>
>>   ^^^^^  That part right up there.  :-D  That may be a new thread, if
>> needed.
> My first thought was "even Dale can't have problems with that".
>
> I soon reconsidered...
>
>

Well, remember me building a init thingy a good while back?  Yep, it
failed to boot a while back.  It sort of started but from what was on
the screen, I could tell the init thingy failed.  I edited grub to
remove the init thingy and booted.  Then I removed all the init
thingys.  I was using the drop dead simple dracut to make it and it
still failed.  After it failed and I tried to boot without it, I was
diggin for my Kubuntu DVD.  It booted fine without it tho.  Whew!!!

I'm thinking of something tho.  Btrfs.  While I have a new drive with no
file system on it, it's a good time to think on switching from LVM. 
Hmmmmmmm.   I'm currently on gentoo-sources 3.14. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Rich Freeman]

On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 7:03 AM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm thinking of something tho.  Btrfs.  While I have a new drive with no
> file system on it, it's a good time to think on switching from LVM.
> Hmmmmmmm.   I'm currently on gentoo-sources 3.14.

I think btrfs is usable, but not without its problems.  I don't think
I'd run it without a daily backup onto something that doesn't run
btrfs.  I'm running btrfs in raid1 configuration, and I've only
restored from the backup once, though if I didn't have it I probably
could have still recovered (ENOSPC issue - the usual solutions weren't
working).  Earlier this week I was having lockup issues (I tried to
re-enable snapper and deleting a few snapshots at once caused it to
stop syncing, and then for several days any kind of heavy write
activity would cause the issue to repeat, which I suspect was the
result of delayed cleanup).

Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Dale]

Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 7:03 AM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'm thinking of something tho.  Btrfs.  While I have a new drive with no
>> file system on it, it's a good time to think on switching from LVM.
>> Hmmmmmmm.   I'm currently on gentoo-sources 3.14.
> I think btrfs is usable, but not without its problems.  I don't think
> I'd run it without a daily backup onto something that doesn't run
> btrfs.  I'm running btrfs in raid1 configuration, and I've only
> restored from the backup once, though if I didn't have it I probably
> could have still recovered (ENOSPC issue - the usual solutions weren't
> working).  Earlier this week I was having lockup issues (I tried to
> re-enable snapper and deleting a few snapshots at once caused it to
> stop syncing, and then for several days any kind of heavy write
> activity would cause the issue to repeat, which I suspect was the
> result of delayed cleanup).
>
> Rich
>
>

Well, I really don't have enough time to read up and get to know the
commands and such either.  I guess I better stick with LVM, for now at
least.  When I get another drive, I could always switch then and maybe
it will be more stable then as well.  Maybe. 

Thanks for sharing the info. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Bill Kenworthy]

On 26/06/14 06:16, Dale wrote:
> Neil Bothwick wrote:
>> On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 17:44:48 +0100, Mick wrote:
>>
>>>> Install a simple forwarding MTA like ssmtp to have all mails from cron
>>>> and friends sent to your ISP mailbox.  
>>> ... and when you find out please tell us:
>>>

> 
> What I really need to do, set up a RAID or some other backup method so
> that even if this happens again, I don't risk losing anything.  Then
> again, that will take time as well.  Also takes money.
> 

Repeat after me ... RAID IS NOT A BACKUP

There are many ways to do a backup - various raid forms, mirrors etc can
help in some (and only some) instances but only a spatially separated
copy of the data is relatively safe.

Have two computers? - cross backup between them. (keep an old machine as
a file server in the back room, start it up a couple of times a week and
run a backup script - can even be automated)

Have a friend/relative nearby? - take your PC over, create a backup and
then sync the differences across the net using rsync etc - most normal
people do fill up todays large disks, or have large "personal valuable
data" requirements.

You dont need to backup the whole machine, just the valuable bits
(configs, personal data, email archives, ...)

There are many ways to do it - if you only have one disk and no backups,
the data by definition is not valuable :)

Ive just been caught by an old 1G WD green drive failing (possibly the
MB's fault as the sata interface died as well - seen a few of those
now!) that took out the middle drive from a striped LVM.  Didnt bother
to recover, just built a new machine from leftover bits, bought another
drive and rebuilt it using btrfs raid 1 on the two orignal WD 2G green
drives and a new WD red, and restored from backups on another machine -
over the years this type of event has happened a few times - you only
need to get burnt once to learn!.

BillK

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Dale]

Bill Kenworthy wrote:
> On 26/06/14 06:16, Dale wrote:
>> Neil Bothwick wrote:
>>> On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 17:44:48 +0100, Mick wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Install a simple forwarding MTA like ssmtp to have all mails from cron
>>>>> and friends sent to your ISP mailbox.  
>>>> ... and when you find out please tell us:
>>>>
>> What I really need to do, set up a RAID or some other backup method so
>> that even if this happens again, I don't risk losing anything.  Then
>> again, that will take time as well.  Also takes money.
>>
> Repeat after me ... RAID IS NOT A BACKUP

I agree with that.  Power supply goes nuts and burns out the whole
puter.  RAID won't help that.  House catches fire, ooops.  Thief steals
puter,  uh oh.  That list could go on for a while.  About the only thing
it does is allow quick recovery from a failing/dead drive.  Basically. 
It's good at that from what I have read. 

>
> There are many ways to do a backup - various raid forms, mirrors etc can
> help in some (and only some) instances but only a spatially separated
> copy of the data is relatively safe.
>
> Have two computers? - cross backup between them. (keep an old machine as
> a file server in the back room, start it up a couple of times a week and
> run a backup script - can even be automated)

I do have a old puter at the moment.  I thought about sticking it in a
outbuilding and just turning it on to do backups then shutting it back
down.  That puts distance between house and outbuilding too.  Thing is,
I plan to let a family member use it when I can get around to getting a
new case for it.  I guess I could use any old slow junky puter with a
LARGE drive in it. 


>
> Have a friend/relative nearby? - take your PC over, create a backup and
> then sync the differences across the net using rsync etc - most normal
> people do fill up todays large disks, or have large "personal valuable
> data" requirements.
>
> You dont need to backup the whole machine, just the valuable bits
> (configs, personal data, email archives, ...)
>
> There are many ways to do it - if you only have one disk and no backups,
> the data by definition is not valuable :)
>
> Ive just been caught by an old 1G WD green drive failing (possibly the
> MB's fault as the sata interface died as well - seen a few of those
> now!) that took out the middle drive from a striped LVM.  Didnt bother
> to recover, just built a new machine from leftover bits, bought another
> drive and rebuilt it using btrfs raid 1 on the two orignal WD 2G green
> drives and a new WD red, and restored from backups on another machine -
> over the years this type of event has happened a few times - you only
> need to get burnt once to learn!.
>
> BillK
>

I do backup what I know can't be replaced at all.  My camera pics can't
be replaced since they are not anywhere else.  Some other things here
that are nowhere else I can live without, just would rather not if I can
help it. 

I never backup the OS.  I just reinstall it if needed.  Generally, I try
to keep a copy of /etc and the world file.  I'll copy /etc over and use
the world file as a guide on what to install on the new install.  Heck,
I can install Kubuntu in a hour or less.  Then I can install Gentoo from
that while doing my usual puter activities. 

I had a WD 80GB drive to fail several years ago.  That's the only drive
I have ever had to fail on me tho.  It spit out errors and I was able to
do backups and save the data before it died for good.  I can't recall
the exact error but it mentioned '24 hours' and 'right now'.  It didn't
miss it by much either. 

Just imagine if we had no tools to warn us of a failure at all.  That
would suck.

Dale

:-)  :-) 

[gentoo-user] Re: smartctrl drive error @60%

[Grant Edwards]

On 2014-06-25, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:

> I have to say, I dread setting up a mail server about as bad as I dread
> going to the Doctor.  It's just something I really don't want to add to
> my system unless I have to.  It's sort of like the init thingy.  I don't
> want to add something else that will eventually break and I'll have to
> fix.  The mail system won't keep me from booting but it is just one more
> thing to keep a eye on and make sure it is working.  So, making sure the
> mail system is working will likely take up the same amount of time that
> checking the drive manually every month or so will take.

I think you are _vastly_ overestimating the amount of effort required
to install and set up something like msmtp.  It's completely trivial
compared to setting up sendmail (or even postfix).  If you know the
name of your ISP's smtp server along with the username and password,
it doesn't take more than a minute or two to set up.  And it just
doesn't break (unless you change the password and forget to update the
msmtp config file).

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! I'm having a
                                  at               quadrophonic sensation
                              gmail.com            of two winos alone in a
                                                   steel mill!

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: smartctrl drive error @60%

[Dale]

Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2014-06-25, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I have to say, I dread setting up a mail server about as bad as I dread
>> going to the Doctor.  It's just something I really don't want to add to
>> my system unless I have to.  It's sort of like the init thingy.  I don't
>> want to add something else that will eventually break and I'll have to
>> fix.  The mail system won't keep me from booting but it is just one more
>> thing to keep a eye on and make sure it is working.  So, making sure the
>> mail system is working will likely take up the same amount of time that
>> checking the drive manually every month or so will take.
> I think you are _vastly_ overestimating the amount of effort required
> to install and set up something like msmtp.  It's completely trivial
> compared to setting up sendmail (or even postfix).  If you know the
> name of your ISP's smtp server along with the username and password,
> it doesn't take more than a minute or two to set up.  And it just
> doesn't break (unless you change the password and forget to update the
> msmtp config file).
>

It was more Murphy's law I was worried about.  ;-) 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: smartctrl drive error @60%

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Sat, 28 Jun 2014 06:55:28 -0500, Dale wrote:

> It was more Murphy's law I was worried about.  ;-) 

Hasn't that been deprecated in favour of Dale's Law?


-- 
Neil Bothwick

I thought the 10 commandments were multiple choice.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: smartctrl drive error @60%

[Dale]

Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Jun 2014 06:55:28 -0500, Dale wrote:
>
>> It was more Murphy's law I was worried about.  ;-) 
> Hasn't that been deprecated in favour of Dale's Law?
>
>

If it hasn't, maybe it should.  It's strange tho, I have good luck with
a lot of things, even computer hardware really, but messing with some
new software generally leads to trouble.  Hal was the first really bad
thing.  There was some other thing that popped up that I can't recall
and recently the init thingy kept me from booting.  I then booted the
init thingy off here.  I just keep a up to date Kubuntu disk laying
around.  ;-)  New software just doesn't like me or my rig much.  Older
stuff seems to work fine.  It's the things that seem to be new that
really crawl under my skin.  It seems they always bite me even when it
works for most everyone else.  That was pretty much the case with hal. 
It just would not work on my rig.  I give the dev credit tho, he
realized it was a mess and started over from scratch.  At least he
realized the boo boo. 

On this old drive.  I got my data copied over and tested the stuffin out
of the new drive and then tested it a few more times.  Looks good for
the new drive.  I'm doing a dd on the old drive now and I plan to let it
at least get to where that bad spot is.  I figure if I let dd do its
thing on the whole drive, that should get it, unless I lose power or
something and have to stop it.  After that, I'm going to put a file
system on it and fill it up and test it and see what it says then. 
Maybe it will fix itself and I can at least use it as a occasional
backup or something.   I dunno. 

I noticed when I copied the data over that some files had a line of
question marks in the name.  Since a question mark is a wild card, I
can't find them now.  How does one search for a file name that has a
wild card in it?

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: smartctrl drive error @60%

[Alan McKinnon]

On 28/06/2014 15:05, Dale wrote:
> Neil Bothwick wrote:
>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2014 06:55:28 -0500, Dale wrote:
>>
>>> It was more Murphy's law I was worried about.  ;-) 
>> Hasn't that been deprecated in favour of Dale's Law?
>>
>>
> 
> If it hasn't, maybe it should.  It's strange tho, I have good luck with
> a lot of things, even computer hardware really, but messing with some
> new software generally leads to trouble.  Hal was the first really bad
> thing.  There was some other thing that popped up that I can't recall
> and recently the init thingy kept me from booting.  I then booted the
> init thingy off here.  I just keep a up to date Kubuntu disk laying
> around.  ;-)  New software just doesn't like me or my rig much.  Older
> stuff seems to work fine.  It's the things that seem to be new that
> really crawl under my skin.  It seems they always bite me even when it
> works for most everyone else.  That was pretty much the case with hal. 
> It just would not work on my rig.  I give the dev credit tho, he
> realized it was a mess and started over from scratch.  At least he
> realized the boo boo. 
> 
> On this old drive.  I got my data copied over and tested the stuffin out
> of the new drive and then tested it a few more times.  Looks good for
> the new drive.  I'm doing a dd on the old drive now and I plan to let it
> at least get to where that bad spot is.  I figure if I let dd do its
> thing on the whole drive, that should get it, unless I lose power or
> something and have to stop it.  After that, I'm going to put a file
> system on it and fill it up and test it and see what it says then. 
> Maybe it will fix itself and I can at least use it as a occasional
> backup or something.   I dunno. 
> 
> I noticed when I copied the data over that some files had a line of
> question marks in the name.  Since a question mark is a wild card, I
> can't find them now.  How does one search for a file name that has a
> wild card in it?


escape the character with a \

But that's not your main problem. You got those filenames because the
source disk somehow has a problem and the names couldn't be read
properly. So junk was used instead.

Reasons vary, but the basics never change: there is a problem with your
source disk and now you need to go find what that problem is.





-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: smartctrl drive error @60%

[Dale]

Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On 28/06/2014 15:05, Dale wrote:
>> On this old drive.  I got my data copied over and tested the stuffin out
>> of the new drive and then tested it a few more times.  Looks good for
>> the new drive.  I'm doing a dd on the old drive now and I plan to let it
>> at least get to where that bad spot is.  I figure if I let dd do its
>> thing on the whole drive, that should get it, unless I lose power or
>> something and have to stop it.  After that, I'm going to put a file
>> system on it and fill it up and test it and see what it says then. 
>> Maybe it will fix itself and I can at least use it as a occasional
>> backup or something.   I dunno. 
>>
>> I noticed when I copied the data over that some files had a line of
>> question marks in the name.  Since a question mark is a wild card, I
>> can't find them now.  How does one search for a file name that has a
>> wild card in it?
>
> escape the character with a \
>
> But that's not your main problem. You got those filenames because the
> source disk somehow has a problem and the names couldn't be read
> properly. So junk was used instead.
>
> Reasons vary, but the basics never change: there is a problem with your
> source disk and now you need to go find what that problem is.
>

Well, the drive is replaced but it copied the "bad" file over as well. 
I just want to find it so that I can check it and delete it if it is
bad.  It's one of my videos so no point in some corrupted file hanging
around if it is no good.  Plus, I hope I can figure out what is missing
and find a copy on youtube or something.  Maybe I will be that lucky. 

Now to go see if I can find it again.  ;-)

Thanks. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: smartctrl drive error @60%

[Dale]

Dale wrote:
> Alan McKinnon wrote:
>> On 28/06/2014 15:05, Dale wrote:
>>> On this old drive.  I got my data copied over and tested the stuffin out
>>> of the new drive and then tested it a few more times.  Looks good for
>>> the new drive.  I'm doing a dd on the old drive now and I plan to let it
>>> at least get to where that bad spot is.  I figure if I let dd do its
>>> thing on the whole drive, that should get it, unless I lose power or
>>> something and have to stop it.  After that, I'm going to put a file
>>> system on it and fill it up and test it and see what it says then. 
>>> Maybe it will fix itself and I can at least use it as a occasional
>>> backup or something.   I dunno. 
>>>
>>> I noticed when I copied the data over that some files had a line of
>>> question marks in the name.  Since a question mark is a wild card, I
>>> can't find them now.  How does one search for a file name that has a
>>> wild card in it?
>> escape the character with a \
>>
>> But that's not your main problem. You got those filenames because the
>> source disk somehow has a problem and the names couldn't be read
>> properly. So junk was used instead.
>>
>> Reasons vary, but the basics never change: there is a problem with your
>> source disk and now you need to go find what that problem is.
>>
> Well, the drive is replaced but it copied the "bad" file over as well. 
> I just want to find it so that I can check it and delete it if it is
> bad.  It's one of my videos so no point in some corrupted file hanging
> around if it is no good.  Plus, I hope I can figure out what is missing
> and find a copy on youtube or something.  Maybe I will be that lucky. 
>
> Now to go see if I can find it again.  ;-)
>
> Thanks. 
>
> Dale
>
> :-)  :-) 
>

Hmmmmm, slight glitch maybe.  It listed some files with a question mark
in it but not the ones I am looking for.  So, is it possible that since
it couldn't read the file it just skipped them?  I used rsync to do the
copy instead of cp.  Maybe that is it or otherwise, I have a ton of
directories to go diggin in to find them since it isn't the one I
thought it was. 

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: smartctrl drive error @60%

[Peter Humphrey]

On Saturday 28 June 2014 09:15:47 Dale wrote:
> > Alan McKinnon wrote:
--->8
> >> But that's not your main problem. You got those filenames because the
> >> source disk somehow has a problem and the names couldn't be read
> >> properly. So junk was used instead.

I thought it was more like: the file lister didn't recognise those bytes as 
valid characters so it printed a question-mark for each of them. If it is so, 
it's no use Dale looking for files with question-marks in their names.

--->8

> It listed some files with a question mark in it but not the ones I am
> looking for.  So, is it possible that since it couldn't read the file it
> just skipped them?

It may not be true that it couldn't read the files; it just couldn't translate 
their names into text characters. The names are not held in the files whose 
names they are but somewhere in the inode structure. Someone with better 
knowledge of this (i.e.any at all) will have to explain what goes wrong if 
bytes on the disk adjacent to the file names get damaged along with the names.

> I used rsync to do the copy instead of cp.  Maybe that is it or otherwise, I
> have a ton of directories to go diggin in to find them since it isn't the
> one I thought it was.

Do you know any characters in those dodgy names, Dale? If so, you may be able 
to use /usr/bin/find like so (hoping this isn't a grandma's egg - apologies if 
it is):

find /path-to-files -iname \*known-part-of-name\* {} +

-- 
Regards
Peter

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: smartctrl drive error @60%

[Mick]

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On Saturday 28 Jun 2014 15:50:23 Peter Humphrey wrote:
> On Saturday 28 June 2014 09:15:47 Dale wrote:
> > > Alan McKinnon wrote:
> --->8
> 
> > >> But that's not your main problem. You got those filenames because the
> > >> source disk somehow has a problem and the names couldn't be read
> > >> properly. So junk was used instead.
> 
> I thought it was more like: the file lister didn't recognise those bytes as
> valid characters so it printed a question-mark for each of them. If it is
> so, it's no use Dale looking for files with question-marks in their names.
> 
> --->8
> 
> > It listed some files with a question mark in it but not the ones I am
> > looking for.  So, is it possible that since it couldn't read the file it
> > just skipped them?
> 
> It may not be true that it couldn't read the files; it just couldn't
> translate their names into text characters. The names are not held in the
> files whose names they are but somewhere in the inode structure. Someone
> with better knowledge of this (i.e.any at all) will have to explain what
> goes wrong if bytes on the disk adjacent to the file names get damaged
> along with the names.
> 
> > I used rsync to do the copy instead of cp.  Maybe that is it or
> > otherwise, I have a ton of directories to go diggin in to find them
> > since it isn't the one I thought it was.
> 
> Do you know any characters in those dodgy names, Dale? If so, you may be
> able to use /usr/bin/find like so (hoping this isn't a grandma's egg -
> apologies if it is):
> 
> find /path-to-files -iname \*known-part-of-name\* {} +

It could have something to do with the character set of the 
terminal/application Vs the character set that the original file was created 
as.  If you have UTF8 set as your default character encoding, you should 
hopefully be OK.  If it shows ? in the name and 0 bytes size, it is likely a 
corrupt file.

You can also try ddrescue with --input-position=<bytes> and --max-size=<bytes> 
to retrieve just the borked part of the disk.
-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: smartctrl drive error @60%

[Dale]

Mick wrote:
> On Saturday 28 Jun 2014 15:50:23 Peter Humphrey wrote:
>> It may not be true that it couldn't read the files; it just couldn't
>> translate their names into text characters. The names are not held in
>> the files whose names they are but somewhere in the inode structure.
>> Someone with better knowledge of this (i.e.any at all) will have to
>> explain what goes wrong if bytes on the disk adjacent to the file
>> names get damaged along with the names. Do you know any characters in
>> those dodgy names, Dale? If so, you may be able to use /usr/bin/find
>> like so (hoping this isn't a grandma's egg - apologies if it is):
>> find /path-to-files -iname \*known-part-of-name\* {} + 
> It could have something to do with the character set of the 
> terminal/application Vs the character set that the original file was created 
> as.  If you have UTF8 set as your default character encoding, you should 
> hopefully be OK.  If it shows ? in the name and 0 bytes size, it is likely a 
> corrupt file.
>
> You can also try ddrescue with --input-position=<bytes> and --max-size=<bytes> 
> to retrieve just the borked part of the disk.

Well, I was planing to just find them and delete them.  If I could play
them and they work fine then I might save them but I figure they are
likely messed up in some way. 

I have already zeroed out the stuff on the old drive that was going
out.  That data is gone.  If rsync didn't copy the files over, that is
cool.  I'll go figure out what was missed and see if I can find new
copies.  I only saw a chunk that looked like maybe 4 or 5 scrolling by. 
Given the amount of data, I'd say it was well under a 1% loss.  Maybe
not even 0.1% loss. 

Learned to use the \ to search tho.  Let's see if I remember that for
next time.  lol

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Rich Freeman]

On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 11:54 AM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm going to bet this drive is out of warranty.  I'm pretty sure it is
> over 2 years since I bought it.
>
> Once I replace that drive, I'll dd the thing and see what it does then.
> It'll either break it or give me a fresh start to play with and see how
> long it lasts.

Well, finding out for sure is a 30 second process, so up to you
whether it is worth the time.

smartctl will give you the serial/model number, and you punch that
into a website, and it will say whether it is under warranty or not.

If you plan to wipe the disk before return, print out the results of
smartctl -a first, since wiping will probably clear the pending
sectors.

But, it is your drive, so do whatever you want with it!  :)

Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Dale]

Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 11:54 AM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'm going to bet this drive is out of warranty.  I'm pretty sure it is
>> over 2 years since I bought it.
>>
>> Once I replace that drive, I'll dd the thing and see what it does then.
>> It'll either break it or give me a fresh start to play with and see how
>> long it lasts.
> Well, finding out for sure is a 30 second process, so up to you
> whether it is worth the time.
>
> smartctl will give you the serial/model number, and you punch that
> into a website, and it will say whether it is under warranty or not.
>
> If you plan to wipe the disk before return, print out the results of
> smartctl -a first, since wiping will probably clear the pending
> sectors.
>
> But, it is your drive, so do whatever you want with it!  :)
>
> Rich
>
>

I do plan to check and see if it is under warranty.  I'll do that after
I get things moved over and can test a bit more.  Who knows, it could be
Murphy and he will just leave at some point.  ;-)   I'm pretty sure this
drive is close to three years old tho.  Heck, I can go look at the
Newegg order history and find out.  I would think the manufacturer goes
by the date made where a invoice dated later would tend to slide that
out further. 

Either way, I'll find out.  If it is under warranty and can be swapped
out, that would solve a few issues.  I'll have one backup drive at
least.  ;-)

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Douglas J Hunley]

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On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 7:03 AM, Rich Freeman <rich0@gentoo.org> wrote:

> I don't think anybody makes a monitor for btrfs, though my boot is
> mirrored across all my btrfs drives using mdadm so a drive failure
> should be detected in any case.  I need to check up on that, though -
> I'd like an email if something goes wrong with btrfs storage.
>

You're going to want to cron a 'scrub' and have it email you. There's no
background daemon that I'm aware of to handle this. ZFS just introduced
'zed' and it would be nice if BTRFS would do the same


-- 
Douglas J Hunley (doug.hunley@gmail.com)
Twitter: @hunleyd                                               Web:
about.me/douglas_hunley
G+: http://google.com/+DouglasHunley

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Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Rich Freeman]

On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 2:44 PM, Douglas J Hunley <doug.hunley@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> You're going to want to cron a 'scrub' and have it email you. There's no
> background daemon that I'm aware of to handle this. ZFS just introduced
> 'zed' and it would be nice if BTRFS would do the same

Actually, I think that for serious failures smartd will take care of it.

I was reading the btrfs list archives and apparently btrfs doesn't
make as much as a whisper when a drive fails.  It just keeps on going.

Now, the keeps on going part I'm fine with, but you'd think that
operating in a degraded mode would trigger some kind of message.

Granted, it isn't 100% done yet, either.  In fact, if your replace the
failed drive you have to manually force a re-balance or it will just
continue to operate degraded.

Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Dale]

Rich Freeman wrote:
> And do check on your warranty. You can migrate all your data to the
> new drive, and then replace the old one as a backup disk. Either use
> it with raid, or as an offline backup. If you want to do raid you can
> set up mdadm with a degraded raid1 so that you can copy your data over
> from your old drive, and then when it is replaced you just partition
> the new one, add it to the raid, and watch it rebuild automatically. Rich 

I thought I was never going to find that thing.  It is pretty well
hidden.  Anyway:

Serial Number  Seagate Part Number Warranty Status 
Z1F0PKT5           9YN166-302       Out of Warranty  

So, I guess I need to check newegg and see if I can show a invoice that
it is less than two years old.  I'm not sure that it is tho. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[David Haller]

Hello,

On Wed, 25 Jun 2014, Dale wrote:
>thegeezer wrote:
>> On 06/25/2014 08:49 AM, Dale wrote:
>>> Device Model:     ST3000DM001-9YN166

I have (had sort of) the same disc, with the same FW.

>>> see the following Seagate web pages:
>>> http://knowledge.seagate.com/articles/en_US/FAQ/207931en
>>> http://knowledge.seagate.com/articles/en_US/FAQ/223651en
>> interesting - not seen that before might be worth a nose
>
>I was thinking the same thing myself.  How does it know there is a
>update was another question I had. 

Those FW-Updates do _NOT_ apply to FW-Version 9YN166. From what I
found, you'd brick the drive. The smartctl DB does not take the
FW-version into account, just the model, to display above notice.

>>>   7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000f   079   060   030    Pre-fail 
>>> Always       -       99909120
>>>   9 Power_On_Hours          0x0032   082   082   000    Old_age  
>>> Always       -       16379
>> almost two years of power on time

looks familiar

  4 Start_Stop_Count        0x0032   100   100   020    Old_age   Always
       915
  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000f   072   060   030    Pre-fail  Always
       19309568
  9 Power_On_Hours          0x0032   088   088   000    Old_age   Always
       11351

[..]
>>> 197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0012   100   100   000    Old_age  
>>> Always       -       104
>> 197
>> this says there are 104 pending sectors i.e. bad blocks on the drive
>> that have not been reallocatd yet
>
>Wonder why it hasn't?  Isn't it supposed to do that sort of thing itself? 

>>> 198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0010   100   100   000    Old_age  
>>> Offline      -       104
>> this says it was not able to reallocate. which is odd because of the
>> entry 5 being zero
>
>Uh oh. 

Yeah. Oh, and I had a "clean" smart until a few days ago, luckily I
alread had a WD Red (WD40EFRX) drive waiting when this attrib jumped
from 0 to:

  5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   087   087   036    Pre-fail  Always
       17688

Other Seagates (a few 1.5T drives) have also made me trouble, the 2T
Samsung already relabeled and sold as a Seagate but with Samsung in
the FW though is still ok.

[..]
>I ordered a drive.  It should be here tomorrow.  In the meantime, I
>shutdown and re-seated all the cables, power too. I got the test running
>again but results is a few hours off yet.  It did pass the short test
>tho.  I'm not sure that it means much. 

Good. Do not use dd, it WILL fail at the first error. Use gnu ddrescue
or dd_rescue to grab an image. I used mc to copy via filesystem, eg. 
'rsync -auxlPRAXSHD /foo/ /bar/' is fine too. Oh, and I hope you
didn't buy a Seagate again ;)

-dnh

-- 
The sigmonster ate my sig and all I got was this stupid tagline.

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Dale]

David Haller wrote:
> Hello,
>
> On Wed, 25 Jun 2014, Dale wrote:
> Yeah. Oh, and I had a "clean" smart until a few days ago, luckily I
> alread had a WD Red (WD40EFRX) drive waiting when this attrib jumped
> from 0 to: 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 087 087 036 Pre-fail Always
> 17688 Other Seagates (a few 1.5T drives) have also made me trouble,
> the 2T Samsung already relabeled and sold as a Seagate but with
> Samsung in the FW though is still ok. [..] 

I was wondering about how that would be updated since a lot of that
stuff requires windoze. 


>> I ordered a drive.  It should be here tomorrow.  In the meantime, I
>> shutdown and re-seated all the cables, power too. I got the test running
>> again but results is a few hours off yet.  It did pass the short test
>> tho.  I'm not sure that it means much. 
> Good. Do not use dd, it WILL fail at the first error. Use gnu ddrescue
> or dd_rescue to grab an image. I used mc to copy via filesystem, eg. 
> 'rsync -auxlPRAXSHD /foo/ /bar/' is fine too. Oh, and I hope you
> didn't buy a Seagate again ;)
>
> -dnh
>

I plan to rsync or cp the data over.  The dd part will come into play
after I am sure I got everything off that I can get and am just erasing
the drive completely.  I plan to dd the drive then run the tests again
just to see what it is doing.  Heck, maybe it will reallocate that area
like it should be doing already, I guess. 

Time will tell.  I'll be having fun tomorrow tho.  ;-)

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[David Haller]

Hello,

On Wed, 25 Jun 2014, Dale wrote:
>David Haller wrote:
>> On Wed, 25 Jun 2014, Dale wrote:
>> Yeah. Oh, and I had a "clean" smart until a few days ago, luckily I
>> alread had a WD Red (WD40EFRX) drive waiting when this attrib jumped
>> from 0 to: 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 087 087 036 Pre-fail Always
>> 17688 Other Seagates (a few 1.5T drives) have also made me trouble,
>> the 2T Samsung already relabeled and sold as a Seagate but with
>> Samsung in the FW though is still ok. [..] 
>
>I was wondering about how that would be updated since a lot of that
>stuff requires windoze. 

I had the "fun" with a couple of those 2TB Samsung drives a while ago
(Jan 2012?). Samsung had some .iso files available, which you could
write to a CD/DVD/USB-Shtik, and then boot from them. For me, the
biggest problem was _which_ of the 4 HD204UI and 2 HD203WI I had and
have needed the update... I don't remember the SW displaying serial
numbers... *gah* Anyway, I've got it sorted out and updated those that
needed the update. With Seagate/WD/HGST/Toshiba I've no experience. 
And I still am grumpy about Samsung selling off their HDD stuff to
Seagate.

BTW: in german, we have a saying for Seagate drives: "sie geht oder
sie geht nicht", basically spoken as "sea gate odr sea gate nicht"
meaning "she works or she won't"... But, talk about IBM "deathstars",
and WD has also a record, basically, all HDDs are much alike nowadays,
and have been for years. There's always a bad batch somewhere ...

Seagate: Seagate drives (???), ex-Maxtor drives, ex-Samsung drives
WD: bought Hitachi GST (formerly IBM), i.e. WD + ex-IBM/HGST drives
Toshiba: new player, no warranty for bulk drives, unknown for the desktop

I miss the days when you still had a real choice (WD, Seagate, Maxtor,
Samsung, IBM, and smaller/specialized stuff (Excelstor, Toshiba for
Laptop drives))...

If Seagate would at least label their former Samsung drives in a
recognizable manner (say, ST*DS* vs. ST*DM* or keep the Samsung label
or whatever), I'd be a happy bunny, but as of now, that failing
ST3000DM001 was the last Seagate I've bought for quite some time.

Oh, and I've got a second ST3000DM001 used externally, with stuff that
can get lost, but it'd be inconvenient. And yes, I'm planning on
ordering a replacement ASAP (another WD40EFRX). Just in case. And the
steady state of my discs is full anyway ...

# dfall -t ext3 -t ext4 -h
[..]
14.6T        13.2T       996.4G  90%

and that's just because item one: /dev/sda is taken up by a 128G
Samsung 830 SSD, and item two: I just swapped in that 4TB WD for the
failing Seagate 3TB. (and yes, I use ext{3,4} exclusively on disk),
there's another ~10 TiB in the "fileserver" on 11 disks and a few
naked drives (and a docking station (Sharkoon QuickDeck)) and an
external drive ;)

>>> I ordered a drive.  It should be here tomorrow.  In the meantime, I
>>> shutdown and re-seated all the cables, power too. I got the test running
>>> again but results is a few hours off yet.  It did pass the short test
>>> tho.  I'm not sure that it means much. 
>>
>> Good. Do not use dd, it WILL fail at the first error. Use gnu ddrescue
>> or dd_rescue to grab an image. I used mc to copy via filesystem, eg. 
>> 'rsync -auxlPRAXSHD /foo/ /bar/' is fine too. Oh, and I hope you
>> didn't buy a Seagate again ;)

BTW: *GRR* for you buying a ST3000DM001 again

>I plan to rsync or cp the data over.

Good plan.

>The dd part will come into play after I am sure I got everything off
>that I can get and am just erasing the drive completely. I plan to dd
>the drive then run the tests again just to see what it is doing. 
>Heck, maybe it will reallocate that area like it should be doing
>already, I guess.

Reallocation happens on writes ... Look for --write-sector in 'man
hdparm'.

I've been doing that "smartctl -t .." / hdparm --write-sector ... 
stuff for a bunch of sectors but got tired of that game. And you
having 104 pending sectors? *gah* That'll get tedious. Probably using
'ddrescue /dev/zero /dev/sdX sdX.log' would be easier. That way, after
you got whatever data you can rescue from that drive, you can clear
the drive too before sending it in for a warranty replacement (if
still applicable).

>Time will tell.  I'll be having fun tomorrow tho.  ;-)

Do have fun, after you got your data off that drive :)

-dnh

-- 
Gibt es ein Buch über das maßvolle Verwenden von Fußnoten?
Wenn ja, dann bin ich bereit, Dir ein Exemplar zu schicken.
            [Thorsten Haude zu David Haller in sl-etikette]

Re: [gentoo-user] OT: power requirement (WAS: smartctrl drive error @60%)

[Frank Steinmetzger]

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On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 08:15:57AM -0500, Dale wrote:

> > 33 power cycles seem very low but further down we see the power on time
> > is just under two years which is also erring towards the lighter side of
> > the mtbf
> 
> About the only time I shutdown is when the power fails.  My puter only
> pulls about 150 watts so I just leave it running 24/7.

Gosh, power must be really cheap in your corner of the world (or is it just
stupidly expensive over here?) I wouldn’t call 150 W “only”, especially for
a 24/7 device. Or is that the maximum under load?

Right now I have a Pentium 4 3 GHz heater sitting under the desk -- I got it
last year for free from a company that had written it off. It idles at 95 W
and reaches around 130 (or was it 150) under load. When I sit at the desk, I
notice the warm air rising from underneath because over time it dries up my
eyes. ^^
Add to that an old 17″ CCFL monitor (25 W) and consider my use scheme,
that’s almost 1 kWh per day (don’t know exact prices, but 1 kWh costs around
25-30¢ right now).

I am so looking forward to the new machine I’m going to build in very few
months. Haswell idles at under 20 W. 8-)
(I know: today’s power requirement to manufacture chips is also ridonculous,
too, but considering all other benefits and my usual consumption behavior
over the years, I have a clean concience *g*)
-- 
Gruß | Greetings | Qapla’
Please do not share anything from, with or about me on any social network.

“Oh, gravity, thou art a heartless bitch.” – Dr. Sheldon Cooper

[-- Attachment #2: Digital signature --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 836 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] OT: power requirement (WAS: smartctrl drive error @60%)

[Daniel Frey]

On 06/26/2014 09:19 AM, Frank Steinmetzger wrote:
> Gosh, power must be really cheap in your corner of the world (or is it just
> stupidly expensive over here?) I wouldn’t call 150 W “only”, especially for
> a 24/7 device. Or is that the maximum under load?
> 

Where I am power 7.52 cents per kWh. However, if you go over a certain
amount per billing period (in my area it's 1376 kWh) the price increases
to 11.2 cents per kWh for anything above that limit.

In comparison to around the world, I know we are on the low end of power
cost.

When I build a PC, I don't even think anything about its power
requirements. Lately though I've been going to smaller form factors for
convenience, and due to this I can take advantage of better energy
efficiency. When I shop for appliances, etc. I do consider the power
consumption. I guess I'm strange that way.

Dan

Re: [gentoo-user] OT: power requirement (WAS: smartctrl drive error @60%)

[Bill Kenworthy]

On 27/06/14 01:05, Daniel Frey wrote:
> On 06/26/2014 09:19 AM, Frank Steinmetzger wrote:
>> Gosh, power must be really cheap in your corner of the world (or is it just
>> stupidly expensive over here?) I wouldn’t call 150 W “only”, especially for
>> a 24/7 device. Or is that the maximum under load?
>>
> 
> Where I am power 7.52 cents per kWh. However, if you go over a certain
> amount per billing period (in my area it's 1376 kWh) the price increases
> to 11.2 cents per kWh for anything above that limit.
> 
> In comparison to around the world, I know we are on the low end of power
> cost.
> 
> When I build a PC, I don't even think anything about its power
> requirements. Lately though I've been going to smaller form factors for
> convenience, and due to this I can take advantage of better energy
> efficiency. When I shop for appliances, etc. I do consider the power
> consumption. I guess I'm strange that way.
> 
> Dan
> 
> 

http://www.synergy.net.au/at_home/smartpower_sm1_tariff.xhtml

47.7c peak time - wish I could run a lead over to your place :)

I run ~16hrs a day and power down when I am asleep.  Once power gets to
these levels you are forced to start rationalising.  I use raspberry
pi's for some functions that need 24hr uptime (IP security camera image
storage etc.) and moved to a cisco router instead of my former (and
better) gentoo based firewall router.

BillK

Re: [gentoo-user] OT: power requirement (WAS: smartctrl drive error @60%)

[Dale]

Frank Steinmetzger wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 08:15:57AM -0500, Dale wrote:
>> About the only time I shutdown is when the power fails.  My puter only
>> pulls about 150 watts so I just leave it running 24/7.
> Gosh, power must be really cheap in your corner of the world (or is it just
> stupidly expensive over here?) I wouldn’t call 150 W “only”, especially for
> a 24/7 device. Or is that the maximum under load?
>
> Right now I have a Pentium 4 3 GHz heater sitting under the desk -- I got it
> last year for free from a company that had written it off. It idles at 95 W
> and reaches around 130 (or was it 150) under load. When I sit at the desk, I
> notice the warm air rising from underneath because over time it dries up my
> eyes. ^^
> Add to that an old 17″ CCFL monitor (25 W) and consider my use scheme,
> that’s almost 1 kWh per day (don’t know exact prices, but 1 kWh costs around
> 25-30¢ right now).
>
> I am so looking forward to the new machine I’m going to build in very few
> months. Haswell idles at under 20 W. 8-)
> (I know: today’s power requirement to manufacture chips is also ridonculous,
> too, but considering all other benefits and my usual consumption behavior
> over the years, I have a clean concience *g*)

Well, that power does include monitor, modem, router and such.  I figure
those don't pull very much.  I think the most my newer monitor will pull
is 40 watts.  I was sort of comparing to my old puter that pulled about
500 watts with a old CRT monitor.  It ran 24/7 as well.   My TV runs
pretty much 24/7 too.  If I am compiling something that really has the
CPU and such running pretty hard, it will go to about 180 watts.  That's
the most I have ever seen at least.  Those readings come from the
display on my UPS. 

I think our power here is around 7¢ a KW.  If ours ever gets to 30¢,
well, let's just say that someone is going to be ducking.  Folks here
won't tolerate that.  It could get really ugly. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

Am 25.06.2014 09:49, schrieb Dale:
> thegeezer wrote:
>> this is pretty bad. enough to really go and get a replacement asap,
>> and turn that disk off if you can. the self test stops at the first
>> error it comes to and in this case it is LBA#2905482560 for
>> calculation of where the error is check out the smartcl [1] site which
>> will help you to mark the block bad though the data that was in that
>> block is probably lost forever. i'd also suggest you run # smartctl -a
>> /dev/sdc and paste the results here. the crucial rows are 196/197 the
>> reallocated sector counts and pending sector counts. they show how
>> many blocks have been reallocated, and also how many are pending. this
>> will give you a scaling factor, at the moment you are in trouble, if
>> these figures are very high you are in very high trouble, if they are
>> low you are in low trouble. [1]
>> http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/badblockhowto.html 
> Here is the output:
>
> root@fireball / # smartctl -a /dev/sdc
> smartctl 6.1 2013-03-16 r3800 [x86_64-linux-3.14.0-gentoo] (local build)
> Copyright (C) 2002-13, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, www.smartmontools.org
>
> === START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
> Model Family:     Seagate Barracuda 7200.14 (AF)
> Device Model:     ST3000DM001-9YN166
> Serial Number:    Z1F0PKT5
> LU WWN Device Id: 5 000c50 04d79e15c
> Firmware Version: CC4C
> User Capacity:    3,000,592,982,016 bytes [3.00 TB]
> Sector Sizes:     512 bytes logical, 4096 bytes physical
> Rotation Rate:    7200 rpm
> Device is:        In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
> ATA Version is:   ATA8-ACS T13/1699-D revision 4
> SATA Version is:  SATA 3.0, 6.0 Gb/s (current: 6.0 Gb/s)
> Local Time is:    Wed Jun 25 02:46:39 2014 CDT
>
> ==> WARNING: A firmware update for this drive is available,
> see the following Seagate web pages:
> http://knowledge.seagate.com/articles/en_US/FAQ/207931en
> http://knowledge.seagate.com/articles/en_US/FAQ/223651en
>
> SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
> SMART support is: Enabled
>
> === START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
> SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED
>
> General SMART Values:
> Offline data collection status:  (0x00) Offline data collection activity
>                                         was never started.
>                                         Auto Offline Data Collection:
> Disabled.
> Self-test execution status:      ( 118) The previous self-test completed
> having
>                                         the read element of the test failed.
> Total time to complete Offline
> data collection:                (  584) seconds.
> Offline data collection
> capabilities:                    (0x73) SMART execute Offline immediate.
>                                         Auto Offline data collection
> on/off support.
>                                         Suspend Offline collection upon new
>                                         command.
>                                         No Offline surface scan supported.
>                                         Self-test supported.
>                                         Conveyance Self-test supported.
>                                         Selective Self-test supported.
> SMART capabilities:            (0x0003) Saves SMART data before entering
>                                         power-saving mode.
>                                         Supports SMART auto save timer.
> Error logging capability:        (0x01) Error logging supported.
>                                         General Purpose Logging supported.
> Short self-test routine
> recommended polling time:        (   1) minutes.
> Extended self-test routine
> recommended polling time:        ( 340) minutes.
> Conveyance self-test routine
> recommended polling time:        (   2) minutes.
> SCT capabilities:              (0x3085) SCT Status supported.
>
> SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 10
> Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
> ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE     
> UPDATED  WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
>   1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x000f   119   099   006    Pre-fail 
> Always       -       234421760
>   3 Spin_Up_Time            0x0003   092   092   000    Pre-fail 
> Always       -       0
>   4 Start_Stop_Count        0x0032   100   100   020    Old_age  
> Always       -       33
>   5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   100   100   036    Pre-fail 
> Always       -       0
>   7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000f   079   060   030    Pre-fail 
> Always       -       99909120
>   9 Power_On_Hours          0x0032   082   082   000    Old_age  
> Always       -       16379
>  10 Spin_Retry_Count        0x0013   100   100   097    Pre-fail 
> Always       -       0
>  12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0032   100   100   020    Old_age  
> Always       -       34
> 183 Runtime_Bad_Block       0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age  
> Always       -       0
> 184 End-to-End_Error        0x0032   100   100   099    Old_age  
> Always       -       0
> 187 Reported_Uncorrect      0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age  
> Always       -       0
> 188 Command_Timeout         0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age  
> Always       -       0 0 0
> 189 High_Fly_Writes         0x003a   100   100   000    Old_age  
> Always       -       0
> 190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel 0x0022   069   063   045    Old_age  
> Always       -       31 (Min/Max 26/33)
> 191 G-Sense_Error_Rate      0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age  
> Always       -       0
> 192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age  
> Always       -       9
> 193 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   093   093   000    Old_age  
> Always       -       14284
> 194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   031   040   000    Old_age  
> Always       -       31 (0 17 0 0 0)
> 197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0012   100   100   000    Old_age  
> Always       -       104
> 198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0010   100   100   000    Old_age  
> Offline      -       104
> 199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count    0x003e   200   200   000    Old_age  
> Always       -       0
> 240 Head_Flying_Hours       0x0000   100   253   000    Old_age  
> Offline      -       15955h+37m+28.932s
> 241 Total_LBAs_Written      0x0000   100   253   000    Old_age  
> Offline      -       52221690631887
> 242 Total_LBAs_Read         0x0000   100   253   000    Old_age  
> Offline      -       74848968465606
>
> SMART Error Log Version: 1
> No Errors Logged
>
> SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
> Num  Test_Description    Status                  Remaining 
> LifeTime(hours)  LBA_of_first_error
> # 1  Extended offline    Completed: read failure       60%    
> 16365         2905482560
> # 2  Extended offline    Completed: read failure       60%    
> 16352         2905482560
> # 3  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%     
> 8044         -
> # 4  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%     
> 3121         -
> # 5  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%     
> 1548         -
> # 6  Short offline       Completed without error       00%     
> 1141         -
> # 7  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%      
> 719         -
> # 8  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%      
> 525         -
> # 9  Short offline       Completed without error       00%      
> 516         -
> #10  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%       
> 18         -
> #11  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%        
> 5         -
> #12  Short offline       Completed without error       00%        
> 0         -
>
> SMART Selective self-test log data structure revision number 1
>  SPAN  MIN_LBA  MAX_LBA  CURRENT_TEST_STATUS
>     1        0        0  Not_testing
>     2        0        0  Not_testing
>     3        0        0  Not_testing
>     4        0        0  Not_testing
>     5        0        0  Not_testing
> Selective self-test flags (0x0):
>   After scanning selected spans, do NOT read-scan remainder of disk.
> If Selective self-test is pending on power-up, resume after 0 minute delay.
>
> root@fireball / #
>  
> Does that help shed any light on this situation?   If you need more
> info, just let me know.  Off to newegg.  BRB 
>
> Dale
>
> :-)  :-) 
>

so without looking that drive up - you are using a desktop part for
non-stop setup?

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Rich Freeman]

On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 12:55 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann
<volkerarmin@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> so without looking that drive up - you are using a desktop part for
> non-stop setup?

Honestly, I think it makes far more sense to build a fault-tolerant
setup than to try to avoid faults by spending more on the parts.  I've
only run desktop hard drives on my 24x7 RAID.  If they die I replace
them under warranty - I've yet to have one die outside of warranty,
and I'm usually upgrading for size by that timeframe anyway, and I can
use the old drives for storage.

By all means get better-grade components, but I wouldn't use that as
an excuse for not having backups of some kind.  ALL hard drives WILL
fail, it is just a matter of when.  ANY hard drive can fail the day
after you buy it, a month after you buy it, and so on, though
obviously the probability of a particular drive failing at any point
in time may vary by what you pay for it.

I'd buy a more expensive drive only if the TCO is actually lower.  I'd
engineer any system to accept the failure of at least one drive, and
for any data I actually cared about I'd engineer the system to resist
fire, the rm star, and so on.

Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

Am 25.06.2014 19:06, schrieb Rich Freeman:
> On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 12:55 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann
> <volkerarmin@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> so without looking that drive up - you are using a desktop part for
>> non-stop setup?
> Honestly, I think it makes far more sense to build a fault-tolerant
> setup than to try to avoid faults by spending more on the parts.  I've
> only run desktop hard drives on my 24x7 RAID.  If they die I replace
> them under warranty
so you are ripping of other customers?

>  - I've yet to have one die outside of warranty,
> and I'm usually upgrading for size by that timeframe anyway, and I can
> use the old drives for storage.
>
> By all means get better-grade components, but I wouldn't use that as
> an excuse for not having backups of some kind.

there is no excuse for not having backups.


>   ALL hard drives WILL
> fail, it is just a matter of when. 
indeed.

>  ANY hard drive can fail the day
> after you buy it, a month after you buy it, and so on, though
> obviously the probability of a particular drive failing at any point
> in time may vary by what you pay for it.

or if it was meant to be used the way you use it.

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Rich Freeman]

On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 1:15 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann
<volkerarmin@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Am 25.06.2014 19:06, schrieb Rich Freeman:
>> Honestly, I think it makes far more sense to build a fault-tolerant
>> setup than to try to avoid faults by spending more on the parts.  I've
>> only run desktop hard drives on my 24x7 RAID.  If they die I replace
>> them under warranty
> so you are ripping of other customers?
>

I certainly am not aware of any warranty terms I'm violating.  I just
spot checked a drive warranty and it makes no mention of excluding
continuous use, and the drive specifications do not contain any
exclusions for continuous use.

The SMART data in the drives I've returned contains both the number of
power cycles and power-on time, and I've yet to have a manufacturer
question either.

To exclude continuous operation their warranty would have to specify
just how many hours per day their drives can be operated for.

>
>>  ANY hard drive can fail the day
>> after you buy it, a month after you buy it, and so on, though
>> obviously the probability of a particular drive failing at any point
>> in time may vary by what you pay for it.
>
> or if it was meant to be used the way you use it.

Like I said, I'm certainly interested in any actual data that supports
that drives sold to run 24x7 last any longer than desktop drives when
run 24x7.

Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[J. Roeleveld]

On Wednesday, June 25, 2014 01:44:23 PM Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 1:15 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann
> >>  ANY hard drive can fail the day
> >> 
> >> after you buy it, a month after you buy it, and so on, though
> >> obviously the probability of a particular drive failing at any point
> >> in time may vary by what you pay for it.
> > 
> > or if it was meant to be used the way you use it.
> 
> Like I said, I'm certainly interested in any actual data that supports
> that drives sold to run 24x7 last any longer than desktop drives when
> run 24x7.

Not hard data, but while still using desktop drives, I had a drive failure on 
average once or twice a year. Now with enterprise 24x7 drives, the failure 
rate has dropped to 1 in the past 3 years.

That is, for both, using proper UPS equipment.
Additionally, I noticed a definite speed increase after switching to 
enterprise disks.

--
Joost

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Dale]

J. Roeleveld wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 25, 2014 01:44:23 PM Rich Freeman wrote:
>> On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 1:15 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann
>>>>  ANY hard drive can fail the day
>>>>
>>>> after you buy it, a month after you buy it, and so on, though
>>>> obviously the probability of a particular drive failing at any point
>>>> in time may vary by what you pay for it.
>>> or if it was meant to be used the way you use it.
>> Like I said, I'm certainly interested in any actual data that supports
>> that drives sold to run 24x7 last any longer than desktop drives when
>> run 24x7.
> Not hard data, but while still using desktop drives, I had a drive failure on 
> average once or twice a year. Now with enterprise 24x7 drives, the failure 
> rate has dropped to 1 in the past 3 years.
>
> That is, for both, using proper UPS equipment.
> Additionally, I noticed a definite speed increase after switching to 
> enterprise disks.
>
> --
> Joost
>
>

I have one WD black which I think is a more expensive drive.  I have to
say, when I run hdparm -tT on it, it is faster than the other "regular"
drives that claim the same specs, SATA etc etc.  They do cost more tho. 
Some a good bit more unless you can catch a good sale.  

While I was looking for this new drive, I looked into a 4TB drive.  I am
still trying to get my jaw back up off the floor.  Holy sheep.  They are
still fairly proud of some of those puppies.  I did notice they have a 5
and 6TB one now.  O_O  Double holy sheep.  I think I lost my jaw now. 
Good bye nose, hello China.  :-( 

Well, one of these days we will be talking about getting 6TB drives for
$50 and how much we want a 20TB drive, to put all our worthless junk
on.  lol   Oh, we will still complain about how they die to soon too. 
We may even have CPUs that run at light speed with many dozens of cores,
but still to dang slow.  ;-)  Pass the rice please. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Daniel Frey]

On 06/25/2014 10:44 AM, Rich Freeman wrote:
> 
> Like I said, I'm certainly interested in any actual data that supports
> that drives sold to run 24x7 last any longer than desktop drives when
> run 24x7.
> 

Anecdotal, but...

In 2008 I bought four 24x7 drives (500GB) and eight regular drives to be
used in raid. Out of the eight regular drives, six failed before 4 years
was up.

All of the 24x7 drives are still in use (although I don't remember which
machine(s) they're in now), six years later.

All Seagate.

I initially did do warranty replacement on the failed drives (all drives
had 5 year warranty back then), and out of the six replacements, four
failed a little over three months in.

At that point I went and bought a real battery backed raid card
(computer still has a UPS) with WD enterprise drives and no hiccups of
any kind in about two years. And disk performance is way, way up.

Dan

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Dale]

Daniel Frey wrote:
> On 06/25/2014 10:44 AM, Rich Freeman wrote:
>> Like I said, I'm certainly interested in any actual data that supports
>> that drives sold to run 24x7 last any longer than desktop drives when
>> run 24x7.
>>
> Anecdotal, but...
>
> In 2008 I bought four 24x7 drives (500GB) and eight regular drives to be
> used in raid. Out of the eight regular drives, six failed before 4 years
> was up.
>
> All of the 24x7 drives are still in use (although I don't remember which
> machine(s) they're in now), six years later.
>
> All Seagate.
>
> I initially did do warranty replacement on the failed drives (all drives
> had 5 year warranty back then), and out of the six replacements, four
> failed a little over three months in.
>
> At that point I went and bought a real battery backed raid card
> (computer still has a UPS) with WD enterprise drives and no hiccups of
> any kind in about two years. And disk performance is way, way up.
>
> Dan
>
>

Curious.  I hope I don't start a flame war here.  I have had WD, Seagate
and I think there is a Samsung here somewhere, may be the one that is
rolling over on its back now.  The one drive that failed a few years ago
was a WD drive.  That said, all the other WD drives I have had just got
to small to really use, and slow when SATA came out.  I'm partial to WD
and Seagate still since I got good long term use out of those.  Based on
your experience, you tend to be of the same opinion? 

Allan, your situation should involve a lot of hard drives.  Any
thoughts?  Neil, you have a nice big opinion on this? 

I realize that any brand of drive will break eventually.  That's one
reason I don't hold the one failure I have had against WD.  I got a lot
of use out of that drive and it did let me know it was going to die,
like real soon.  I'm going to duck now.  :/

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 22:54:35 -0500, Dale wrote:

> Curious.  I hope I don't start a flame war here.  I have had WD, Seagate
> and I think there is a Samsung here somewhere, may be the one that is
> rolling over on its back now.  The one drive that failed a few years ago
> was a WD drive.  That said, all the other WD drives I have had just got
> to small to really use, and slow when SATA came out.  I'm partial to WD
> and Seagate still since I got good long term use out of those.  Based on
> your experience, you tend to be of the same opinion? 
> 
> Allan, your situation should involve a lot of hard drives.  Any
> thoughts?  Neil, you have a nice big opinion on this? 

Yes, mix drives from different manufacturers. Or buy them at different
times. All manufacturers can have bad batches (remember the IBM
Deathstar?). I bought two Seagate drives a couple of years ago, for use
in a RAID. The only time I have ignored my own advice on this matter
(other matters are way off topic!). After a year they both started
showing SMART errors and one of them failed soon after, the other was
replaced before it had a chance to fail.

Yes, it's anecdotal, but it makes sense - true redundancy means using
different sources.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it.

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Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Dale]

Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 22:54:35 -0500, Dale wrote:
>
>> Curious.  I hope I don't start a flame war here.  I have had WD, Seagate
>> and I think there is a Samsung here somewhere, may be the one that is
>> rolling over on its back now.  The one drive that failed a few years ago
>> was a WD drive.  That said, all the other WD drives I have had just got
>> to small to really use, and slow when SATA came out.  I'm partial to WD
>> and Seagate still since I got good long term use out of those.  Based on
>> your experience, you tend to be of the same opinion? 
>>
>> Allan, your situation should involve a lot of hard drives.  Any
>> thoughts?  Neil, you have a nice big opinion on this? 
> Yes, mix drives from different manufacturers. Or buy them at different
> times. All manufacturers can have bad batches (remember the IBM
> Deathstar?). I bought two Seagate drives a couple of years ago, for use
> in a RAID. The only time I have ignored my own advice on this matter
> (other matters are way off topic!). After a year they both started
> showing SMART errors and one of them failed soon after, the other was
> replaced before it had a chance to fail.
>
> Yes, it's anecdotal, but it makes sense - true redundancy means using
> different sources.
>
>

Yep, it makes good sense.  Each batch can have one oddball failure but
if a batch has a firmware/hardware fault, the whole batch can die at the
same time.  One could certainly see the point that having say a WD and a
Seagate mirroring each other would be good advice. Having two drives
that are only one digit apart on the serial number could very well be a
recipe for problems, unless one is really lucky and got two well made
drives.

Given how things are manufactured nowadays and the compact data on the
media, it doesn't take much to make a dud for sure.  This sort of
reminds me of a old saying.  A chain is only as strong as its weakest
link.  It doesn't take much to make a hard drive either really good or
really bad.  I don't think they aim for really good, just good enough to
stay out of the really bad area.  ;-)

I may have to keep a eye out on a WD drive for the next one.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Alan McKinnon]

On 26/06/2014 05:54, Dale wrote:
> Curious.  I hope I don't start a flame war here.  I have had WD, Seagate
> and I think there is a Samsung here somewhere, may be the one that is
> rolling over on its back now.  The one drive that failed a few years ago
> was a WD drive.  That said, all the other WD drives I have had just got
> to small to really use, and slow when SATA came out.  I'm partial to WD
> and Seagate still since I got good long term use out of those.  Based on
> your experience, you tend to be of the same opinion? 
> 
> Allan, your situation should involve a lot of hard drives.  Any
> thoughts?  Neil, you have a nice big opinion on this? 


My experiences aren't worth much in this case, what I had to deal with
was data center setups where

- the power has never gone off for 6 years
- the drives never spin down and just keep on turning year after year
- the servers were the nice big ones Dell makes with awesome cooling
- the data center feels like a fridge and the ambient temp never varies
more than 1 deg
- the server power supplies are seriously high grade, the 5V and 12V out
of them are solid and do not fluctuate at all

Add all this up and it's an almost perfect environment for drives to
last a long time. You don't have that, not even close.

I have only 1 little bit of anecdotal data:

my nas at home has 4 x 3T WD Green drives in it, going on almost 2 years
now. My kids hammer the blazes out of that thing, and ZFS scrubs keep it
real busy when the kids don't. And those drives just keep on turning and
turning and turning, I didn't do anything special. I put it down to
statistics - no-one makes bad drives (or cars) these days and I haven't
pulled the unlucky card yet. I dunno, go figure

-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Dale]

Alan McKinnon wrote:
> My experiences aren't worth much in this case, what I had to deal with
> was data center setups where - the power has never gone off for 6
> years - the drives never spin down and just keep on turning year after
> year - the servers were the nice big ones Dell makes with awesome
> cooling - the data center feels like a fridge and the ambient temp
> never varies more than 1 deg - the server power supplies are seriously
> high grade, the 5V and 12V out of them are solid and do not fluctuate
> at all Add all this up and it's an almost perfect environment for
> drives to last a long time. You don't have that, not even close. I
> have only 1 little bit of anecdotal data: my nas at home has 4 x 3T WD
> Green drives in it, going on almost 2 years now. My kids hammer the
> blazes out of that thing, and ZFS scrubs keep it real busy when the
> kids don't. And those drives just keep on turning and turning and
> turning, I didn't do anything special. I put it down to statistics -
> no-one makes bad drives (or cars) these days and I haven't pulled the
> unlucky card yet. I dunno, go figure 

Well, it does make good points tho.  I keep my room here pretty cool. 
It's not as cool as your data center but I have a window A/C and my own
heater.  I don't mind it being a little cool in the winter but don't
like it warm in the summer either.  The cooler the better. 

I also have the Cooler Master HAF-932 case with those really nice large
fans.  The hard drives are right in front of the front intake fan.  I
have a power supply that is really to big for what I have running.  I
can't recall the brand and wattage just that it doesn't pull near as
much power as I thought it would.  It pulls less than half what my older
and much slower puter pulled.  Also, I rarely shut this thing down.  I
did the other night to unplug/re-plug all the cables but other than
that, it is usually because I have lost power from the mains. 

So, keep them cool, good clean power and leave them running when ya
can.  Sounds like a plan.  ;-) 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Alan McKinnon]

On 26/06/2014 13:20, Dale wrote:
> Alan McKinnon wrote:
>> My experiences aren't worth much in this case, what I had to deal with
>> was data center setups where - the power has never gone off for 6
>> years - the drives never spin down and just keep on turning year after
>> year - the servers were the nice big ones Dell makes with awesome
>> cooling - the data center feels like a fridge and the ambient temp
>> never varies more than 1 deg - the server power supplies are seriously
>> high grade, the 5V and 12V out of them are solid and do not fluctuate
>> at all Add all this up and it's an almost perfect environment for
>> drives to last a long time. You don't have that, not even close. I
>> have only 1 little bit of anecdotal data: my nas at home has 4 x 3T WD
>> Green drives in it, going on almost 2 years now. My kids hammer the
>> blazes out of that thing, and ZFS scrubs keep it real busy when the
>> kids don't. And those drives just keep on turning and turning and
>> turning, I didn't do anything special. I put it down to statistics -
>> no-one makes bad drives (or cars) these days and I haven't pulled the
>> unlucky card yet. I dunno, go figure 
> 
> Well, it does make good points tho.  I keep my room here pretty cool. 
> It's not as cool as your data center but I have a window A/C and my own
> heater.  I don't mind it being a little cool in the winter but don't
> like it warm in the summer either.  The cooler the better. 
> 
> I also have the Cooler Master HAF-932 case with those really nice large
> fans.  The hard drives are right in front of the front intake fan.  I
> have a power supply that is really to big for what I have running.  I
> can't recall the brand and wattage just that it doesn't pull near as
> much power as I thought it would.  It pulls less than half what my older
> and much slower puter pulled.  Also, I rarely shut this thing down.  I
> did the other night to unplug/re-plug all the cables but other than
> that, it is usually because I have lost power from the mains. 
> 
> So, keep them cool, good clean power and leave them running when ya
> can.  Sounds like a plan.  ;-) 


You got it :-)

hard drives are mechanical objects, not electronic ones, and they fail
for mechanical reasons. Motors fail, bearings seize, spindle arms wear
out. Transforming magnetic blobs on the platter into binary bits is very
reliable, as long as the head is in exactly the place it is supposed to
be. So the enemies of disks are environmental;

- temperature and humidity changes
- frequent spin ups and spin downs
- dust
- power dips/fluctuations and brown-outs
- being dropped, knocked and generally ubused

etc, etc, etc

Take care of the environmental factors, and statistics fall in your
favour making the odds good you'll get the life you expect




-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Dale]

Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On 26/06/2014 13:20, Dale wrote:
>> Alan McKinnon wrote:
>>> My experiences aren't worth much in this case, what I had to deal with
>>> was data center setups where - the power has never gone off for 6
>>> years - the drives never spin down and just keep on turning year after
>>> year - the servers were the nice big ones Dell makes with awesome
>>> cooling - the data center feels like a fridge and the ambient temp
>>> never varies more than 1 deg - the server power supplies are seriously
>>> high grade, the 5V and 12V out of them are solid and do not fluctuate
>>> at all Add all this up and it's an almost perfect environment for
>>> drives to last a long time. You don't have that, not even close. I
>>> have only 1 little bit of anecdotal data: my nas at home has 4 x 3T WD
>>> Green drives in it, going on almost 2 years now. My kids hammer the
>>> blazes out of that thing, and ZFS scrubs keep it real busy when the
>>> kids don't. And those drives just keep on turning and turning and
>>> turning, I didn't do anything special. I put it down to statistics -
>>> no-one makes bad drives (or cars) these days and I haven't pulled the
>>> unlucky card yet. I dunno, go figure 
>> Well, it does make good points tho.  I keep my room here pretty cool. 
>> It's not as cool as your data center but I have a window A/C and my own
>> heater.  I don't mind it being a little cool in the winter but don't
>> like it warm in the summer either.  The cooler the better. 
>>
>> I also have the Cooler Master HAF-932 case with those really nice large
>> fans.  The hard drives are right in front of the front intake fan.  I
>> have a power supply that is really to big for what I have running.  I
>> can't recall the brand and wattage just that it doesn't pull near as
>> much power as I thought it would.  It pulls less than half what my older
>> and much slower puter pulled.  Also, I rarely shut this thing down.  I
>> did the other night to unplug/re-plug all the cables but other than
>> that, it is usually because I have lost power from the mains. 
>>
>> So, keep them cool, good clean power and leave them running when ya
>> can.  Sounds like a plan.  ;-) 
>
> You got it :-)
>
> hard drives are mechanical objects, not electronic ones, and they fail
> for mechanical reasons. Motors fail, bearings seize, spindle arms wear
> out. Transforming magnetic blobs on the platter into binary bits is very
> reliable, as long as the head is in exactly the place it is supposed to
> be. So the enemies of disks are environmental;
>
> - temperature and humidity changes
> - frequent spin ups and spin downs
> - dust
> - power dips/fluctuations and brown-outs
> - being dropped, knocked and generally ubused
>
> etc, etc, etc
>
> Take care of the environmental factors, and statistics fall in your
> favour making the odds good you'll get the life you expect
>

I think that is one reason I have had some pretty good luck with that. 
I might also add, I have actually only had one computer that failed. 
That includes the ones that folks just gave me which is quite a few. 
Most of them just get to slow to use.  The ones I build, I build them
like a tank.  I put coolers on everything that is even a little warm. 
My CPU cooler on my current rig is pretty large.  Case fans blowing a
lot of air, quiet if possible.  For this drive that I have going out now
to go out, it has to have a issue not related to cooling and such. 
Unless it was somehow handled badly while being shipped to me, its never
been dropped or anything either.  This is a desktop, with wheels since
it is on carpet, and it rarely goes anywhere.  It doesn't get rattled
around like a laptop or something. 

My old rig, AMD 2500+ in a old full tower case still runs good.  I
booted it a month or so ago.  I had a Volcano 11 or 12 on the CPU which
is solid copper.  I replaced the northbridge cooler with a copper cooler
with a fan.  The mosfets close to the CPU, I added coolers to them too. 
It had 5 case fans.  It wasn't quiet but it ran cool.  The mobo temps
were usually just a couple degrees above room temp.  CPU never got over
100F.  Heck, the CPU in my current rig has never seen 110F.  The highest
I have ever seen was 107F and that was when I was compiling and had
power to blink just enough to cut off my A/C for a hour or so.  Maybe I
need a UPS for my A/C too.  :-D 

It seems the best thing WE can do, good power, good cooling, don't drop
it and keep backups. 

I went back through the error logs and found this:

Jun 12 23:30:36 localhost smartd[2688]: Device: /dev/sdc [SAT], 104
Currently unreadable (pending) sectors
Jun 12 23:30:36 localhost smartd[2688]: Device: /dev/sdc [SAT], 104
Offline uncorrectable sectors 

That's the first error I could find.  It went from nothing to that in
one huge jump.  I also found this:

Jun  8 03:10:02 localhost sSMTP[7164]: Unable to locate mail
Jun  8 03:10:02 localhost sSMTP[7164]: Cannot open mail:25
Jun  8 03:10:03 localhost CROND[7145]: (root) MAIL (mailed 57 bytes of
output but got status 0x0001
)

It seems it is trying to mail something.  I need to work on that when I
get the new drive set up.  I already have smtp installed. 

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Daniel Frey]

On 06/26/2014 05:57 AM, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> 
> Take care of the environmental factors, and statistics fall in your
> favour making the odds good you'll get the life you expect
> 

Yep, but sometimes crap just fails for no reason whatsoever. As an
example, my old house had central A/C and never went above 23.5 C in the
summer and was typically 19 C in winter. All machines on their own UPS
boxes. Oddly enough most failures I've seen were from drives on 24x7 and
for whatever reason I had to shut them down and they would not power up
again. I still lost a quite a few drives there, regardless.

Computer hardware fails. I just say "shit happens" and move on. ;-)

Oh, and I make sure critical stuff is in more than two places. What I
consider critical is likely less than 5% of my total storage.

Dan

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Daniel Frey]

On 06/25/2014 08:54 PM, Dale wrote:
> Curious.  I hope I don't start a flame war here.  I have had WD, Seagate
> and I think there is a Samsung here somewhere, may be the one that is
> rolling over on its back now.  The one drive that failed a few years ago
> was a WD drive.  That said, all the other WD drives I have had just got
> to small to really use, and slow when SATA came out.  I'm partial to WD
> and Seagate still since I got good long term use out of those.  Based on
> your experience, you tend to be of the same opinion? 
> 

Flame war on a mailing list? Nah, will never happen. :-)

We have over 100 workstations at work and so far the WD Blue drives fail
the most, Seagate second, Samsung third.

At home once I get a bad run of one manufacturer I usually get ticked
off and find another to switch to.

I originally used WD, then Maxtor, then Seagate, then Samsung, then WD
again... where I am now.

Dan

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Dale]

Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> so without looking that drive up - you are using a desktop part for
> non-stop setup? 

If I recall correctly, the last drive that died was a more expensive
type of drive, intended for a server setup.  So far, the "cheaper"
drives are the ones that have lasted until I outgrew them.  So far, I
have yet to ever have a drive die under warranty.  So far.  I need to
check on this one but will do that after I get things changed out. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 00:05:03 -0500, Dale wrote:

> That's a 3TB drive.  I don't have anything big enough to back it up to. 

Then either your data is not important to you or you need to get another
drive ASAP. Meanwhile, you could start backing up the most important data.

> Is there anyway to find out if this error is really serious or just a
> run of the mill type error?

Whenever I have seen this behaviour, it was soon followed by total drive
failure, even to the point that the computer would not boot with that
drive connected.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

WinErr 003: Dynamic linking error - Your mistake is now in every file

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Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Dale]

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Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 00:05:03 -0500, Dale wrote:
>
>> That's a 3TB drive.  I don't have anything big enough to back it up to.
>
> Then either your data is not important to you or you need to get another
> drive ASAP. Meanwhile, you could start backing up the most important data.

I got a drive picked out at Newegg.  $$$$$$$$

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148844


>
>> Is there anyway to find out if this error is really serious or just a
>> run of the mill type error?
>
> Whenever I have seen this behaviour, it was soon followed by total drive
> failure, even to the point that the computer would not boot with that
> drive connected.
>
>

Well, I did blow the dust out a month or so ago so I thought I would
remove the sides and re-seat all the cables.  I've got the long test
running now but it passed the SHORT test.  I'm hoping it will fix this
issue, just hoping.  That is a good deal on that new drive tho.  May get
it anyway.

Dale

:-)  :-)



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Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[thegeezer]

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On 06/25/2014 11:05 AM, Dale wrote:
>
> I got a drive picked out at Newegg.  $$$$$$$$
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148844

slightly offtopic - i notice that the drive has a 2year limited warranty

has anyone managed to get anything from hard drive warranties ?

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Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Helmut Jarausch]

On 06/25/2014 12:55:08 PM, thegeezer wrote:
> On 06/25/2014 11:05 AM, Dale wrote:
> >
> > I got a drive picked out at Newegg.  $$$$$$$$
> >
> > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148844
> 
> slightly offtopic - i notice that the drive has a 2year limited  
> warranty
> 
> has anyone managed to get anything from hard drive warranties ?

I always buy enterprise editions which have a warranty of 5 years.
I had several drives which got replaced after 3-5 years.
Furthermore, I have the "feeling" that enterprise editions have been
tested more strictly.
I know they are much more expensive but I even take these for my private
machine.

Helmut.

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[covici]

Helmut Jarausch <jarausch@igpm.rwth-aachen.de> wrote:

> On 06/25/2014 12:55:08 PM, thegeezer wrote:
> > On 06/25/2014 11:05 AM, Dale wrote:
> > >
> > > I got a drive picked out at Newegg.  $$$$$$$$
> > >
> > > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148844
> > 
> > slightly offtopic - i notice that the drive has a 2year limited  
> > warranty
> > 
> > has anyone managed to get anything from hard drive warranties ?
> 
> I always buy enterprise editions which have a warranty of 5 years.
> I had several drives which got replaced after 3-5 years.
> Furthermore, I have the "feeling" that enterprise editions have been
> tested more strictly.
> I know they are much more expensive but I even take these for my private
> machine.

And lately the warranty is just one year.

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici
         covici@ccs.covici.com

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Rich Freeman]

On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 6:55 AM, thegeezer <thegeezer@thegeezer.net> wrote:
> On 06/25/2014 11:05 AM, Dale wrote:
>
>
> I got a drive picked out at Newegg.  $$$$$$$$
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148844
>
>
> slightly offtopic - i notice that the drive has a 2year limited warranty
>
> has anyone managed to get anything from hard drive warranties ?

Yes.  Most manufacturers have a hard drive warranty tool online.  Just
give it your serial number and it will tell you if you're eligible,
and how to go about it.  I know Seagate wants you to run their own
testing util (which just does a SMART test and spits out a validation
code which you write down).

I've gotten the same sorts of errors several times now on my RAID and
when it happens I just go through the warranty process, select advance
replacement, swap out the drive, then return the old drive in their
packaging.

Typically costs me $10 for HD replacement (I have to pay return shipping only).

Typically drives tend to die for me about a year after I buy them -
alarmingly often, actually.  Anybody who doesn't run smartmon or its
equivalent is insane, as is anybody who doesn't at least run RAID,
though anything valuable should be backed up.

Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 08:33:37 -0400, Rich Freeman wrote:

> Typically drives tend to die for me about a year after I buy them -
> alarmingly often, actually. 

Do you have a UPS? I used to get similar levels of failure, and not just
drives,then I bought a UPS and things got much better. It seems the mains
supply here is not as stable as it should be.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Grow your own dope, plant a politician!

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Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Rich Freeman]

On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 10:23 AM, Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 08:33:37 -0400, Rich Freeman wrote:
>
>> Typically drives tend to die for me about a year after I buy them -
>> alarmingly often, actually.
>
> Do you have a UPS? I used to get similar levels of failure, and not just
> drives,then I bought a UPS and things got much better. It seems the mains
> supply here is not as stable as it should be.

I do not, and I can't say I was terribly thrilled with the performance
with the last cheap UPS I bought.

The price to do it right tends to be moderately high, so it hasn't
been a priority.  Perhaps I should look into it again.

Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Dale]

Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 10:23 AM, Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 08:33:37 -0400, Rich Freeman wrote:
>>
>>> Typically drives tend to die for me about a year after I buy them -
>>> alarmingly often, actually.
>> Do you have a UPS? I used to get similar levels of failure, and not just
>> drives,then I bought a UPS and things got much better. It seems the mains
>> supply here is not as stable as it should be.
> I do not, and I can't say I was terribly thrilled with the performance
> with the last cheap UPS I bought.
>
> The price to do it right tends to be moderately high, so it hasn't
> been a priority.  Perhaps I should look into it again.
>
> Rich
>
> .
>


I have had two CyberPower UPS's and been happy with them.  Both still
work but had to put in a set of batteries in the older one.  Old one
runs my TV during those frequent blinks we get here and the new one runs
my puter.  I usually catch them on sale for a little over $100 here. I
want to get two more at some point.  One for my Mom's TV and one for my
sis-n-law's puter. 

Out of all the hard drives I have ever had, only one has failed.  The
smart software gave me enough warning to copy the stuff over.  Maybe me
having a UPS has helped on that.  No way to prove it either way tho. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[covici]

Rich Freeman <rich0@gentoo.org> wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 6:55 AM, thegeezer <thegeezer@thegeezer.net> wrote:
> > On 06/25/2014 11:05 AM, Dale wrote:
> >
> >
> > I got a drive picked out at Newegg.  $$$$$$$$
> >
> > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148844
> >
> >
> > slightly offtopic - i notice that the drive has a 2year limited warranty
> >
> > has anyone managed to get anything from hard drive warranties ?
> 
> Yes.  Most manufacturers have a hard drive warranty tool online.  Just
> give it your serial number and it will tell you if you're eligible,
> and how to go about it.  I know Seagate wants you to run their own
> testing util (which just does a SMART test and spits out a validation
> code which you write down).
> 
> I've gotten the same sorts of errors several times now on my RAID and
> when it happens I just go through the warranty process, select advance
> replacement, swap out the drive, then return the old drive in their
> packaging.
> 
> Typically costs me $10 for HD replacement (I have to pay return shipping only).
> 
> Typically drives tend to die for me about a year after I buy them -
> alarmingly often, actually.  Anybody who doesn't run smartmon or its
> equivalent is insane, as is anybody who doesn't at least run RAID,
> though anything valuable should be backed up.

Is it not  true that you cannot run raid on consumer drives because of
timing errors?


-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici
         covici@ccs.covici.com

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Rich Freeman]

On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 11:30 AM,  <covici@ccs.covici.com> wrote:
>
> Is it not  true that you cannot run raid on consumer drives because of
> timing errors?
>

Yes, it is not true.  :)

I've never had issues running RAID on consumer drives.

Sure, devices certified for RAID might spend less time trying to
recover data which is a bit more optimal, but only in the situation
where your drive is actually failing.  If my RAID blocks on read for
30 seconds once a year when a drive is about to die I can live with
that, assuming mdadm doesn't figure out it should give up sooner than
that.

Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Alan McKinnon]

On 25/06/2014 17:30, covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> Rich Freeman <rich0@gentoo.org> wrote:
> 
>> On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 6:55 AM, thegeezer <thegeezer@thegeezer.net> wrote:
>>> On 06/25/2014 11:05 AM, Dale wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I got a drive picked out at Newegg.  $$$$$$$$
>>>
>>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148844
>>>
>>>
>>> slightly offtopic - i notice that the drive has a 2year limited warranty
>>>
>>> has anyone managed to get anything from hard drive warranties ?
>>
>> Yes.  Most manufacturers have a hard drive warranty tool online.  Just
>> give it your serial number and it will tell you if you're eligible,
>> and how to go about it.  I know Seagate wants you to run their own
>> testing util (which just does a SMART test and spits out a validation
>> code which you write down).
>>
>> I've gotten the same sorts of errors several times now on my RAID and
>> when it happens I just go through the warranty process, select advance
>> replacement, swap out the drive, then return the old drive in their
>> packaging.
>>
>> Typically costs me $10 for HD replacement (I have to pay return shipping only).
>>
>> Typically drives tend to die for me about a year after I buy them -
>> alarmingly often, actually.  Anybody who doesn't run smartmon or its
>> equivalent is insane, as is anybody who doesn't at least run RAID,
>> though anything valuable should be backed up.
> 
> Is it not  true that you cannot run raid on consumer drives because of
> timing errors?
> 
> 


That sounds like something EMC and WD/Seagate would say.

There's no reason in the world not to use consumer drives for RAID -
unless you plan to add the drives to those obscenely expensive full-rack
SAN jobs vendors want folk to buy.

The reason consumer drives tend not to work in those arrays has nothing
to do with the performance of the drive itself. The manufacturers flip a
bit in the firmware and without that signature the array hardware often
will not use the drive. It often really is as simple as that.





-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Dale]

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Dale wrote:
>
>
> I got a drive picked out at Newegg.  $$$$$$$$
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148844
>
>
>

Drive is ordered.  Be here tomorrow.  Yay Newegg. 

Dale

:-)  :-)

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Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Marc Joliet]

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Am Tue, 24 Jun 2014 18:09:03 -0500
schrieb Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com>:

> Howdy,
> 
> I run this test every once in a while.  How bad is this:
> 
> root@fireball / # smartctl -l selftest /dev/sdc
> smartctl 6.1 2013-03-16 r3800 [x86_64-linux-3.14.0-gentoo] (local build)
> Copyright (C) 2002-13, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, www.smartmontools.org
> 
> === START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
> SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
> Num  Test_Description    Status                  Remaining 
> LifeTime(hours)  LBA_of_first_error
> # 1  Extended offline    Completed: read failure       60%    
> 16365         2905482560
> # 2  Extended offline    Completed: read failure       60%    
> 16352         2905482560
> # 3  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%     
> 8044         -
> # 4  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%     
> 3121         -
> 
> And better yet, is there any way to tell it to not use that part and
> finish the test?  It seems it stopped when it got to that, or I think it
> did. 
> 
> Thoughts? 

I have no idea, really, but I had a similar situation that was caused by a
loose SATA connection.  In my case the drive stopped working first, then after
checking the SATA connection, it was detected again, but didn't work correctly,
including failing its SMART extended tests at a specific sector. Then, after
fiddling with the connection several weeks later, it started working flawlessly
again.  I plan on buying SATA cables with clips, now :-/ (though I have to check
if that will work with my mainboard first).

Otherwise, to reiterate what J. Roeleveld wrote: backups, backups, backups ;) .

> Dale
> 
> :-)  :-) 

HTH
-- 
Marc Joliet
--
"People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who know we
don't" - Bjarne Stroustrup

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Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Dale]

Dale wrote:
> Howdy,
>
> I run this test every once in a while.  How bad is this:
>
> root@fireball / # smartctl -l selftest /dev/sdc
> smartctl 6.1 2013-03-16 r3800 [x86_64-linux-3.14.0-gentoo] (local build)
> Copyright (C) 2002-13, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, www.smartmontools.org
>
> === START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
> SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
> Num  Test_Description    Status                  Remaining 
> LifeTime(hours)  LBA_of_first_error
> # 1  Extended offline    Completed: read failure       60%    
> 16365         2905482560
> # 2  Extended offline    Completed: read failure       60%    
> 16352         2905482560
> # 3  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%     
> 8044         -
> # 4  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%     
> 3121         -
>
> And better yet, is there any way to tell it to not use that part and
> finish the test?  It seems it stopped when it got to that, or I think it
> did. 
>
> Thoughts? 
>
> Dale
>
> :-)  :-) 
>

OK.  Update.  I got the new drive in, copied the files over, tested the
new drive A LOT, then did a dd on the old drive and wiped the WHOLE
thing.  I let dd run until it ran out of space and died, which took a
pretty good while.  After dd finished, I ran the Smart test again.  This
is what I get now:

root@fireball / # smartctl -l selftest /dev/sdd
smartctl 6.1 2013-03-16 r3800 [x86_64-linux-3.14.0-gentoo] (local build)
Copyright (C) 2002-13, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, www.smartmontools.org

=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
Num  Test_Description    Status                  Remaining 
LifeTime(hours)  LBA_of_first_error
# 1  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%    
16466         -
# 2  Extended offline    Aborted by host               90%    
16461         -
# 3  Extended offline    Completed: read failure       60%    
16451         2905482560
# 4  Extended offline    Completed: read failure       60%    
16432         2905482560
# 5  Extended offline    Completed: read failure       60%    
16427         2905482560
 

Ignore the second one, I started the test on the old drive and was
meaning to do it on the new drive.  When dd finished, I wanted to start
a fresh test so I killed the second one.  As you can see in the latest
test, no errors. 

So, thoughts?  Did it mark that part as bad and all is well or is this
going to be trouble down the line?  Should I just fill the thing up with
data and test the stuffin out of it to make sure?

Thanks.

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Rich Freeman]

On Sat, Jun 28, 2014 at 11:27 PM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> So, thoughts?  Did it mark that part as bad and all is well or is this
> going to be trouble down the line?  Should I just fill the thing up with
> data and test the stuffin out of it to make sure?
>

That is pretty typical.  You wrote to every sector on the drive.  You
don't need to be able to read a sector to overwrite it, so doing this
cleared out the drive's list of offline uncorrectable sectors.  If
you're fortunate it relocated those sectors in which case the drive is
only using good sectors now.  It can't relocate a sector unless it
either gets a successful read, or it is overwritten, and you overwrote
them.

Either way the extended offline test passing isn't unusual.  Either it
relocated the sectors in which case the drive is "completely good" or
the data written to the bad sectors was readable when the test was
run, which doesn't guarantee that it will still be readable a
day/week/month/year from now.

Unfortunately I don't think there is any way to find out what the
firmware is doing, or to predict the likelihood of another failure.
The only thing we can say for sure that like all hard drives, it WILL
fail sometime.

Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Dale]

Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Sat, Jun 28, 2014 at 11:27 PM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>> So, thoughts?  Did it mark that part as bad and all is well or is this
>> going to be trouble down the line?  Should I just fill the thing up with
>> data and test the stuffin out of it to make sure?
>>
> That is pretty typical.  You wrote to every sector on the drive.  You
> don't need to be able to read a sector to overwrite it, so doing this
> cleared out the drive's list of offline uncorrectable sectors.  If
> you're fortunate it relocated those sectors in which case the drive is
> only using good sectors now.  It can't relocate a sector unless it
> either gets a successful read, or it is overwritten, and you overwrote
> them.
>
> Either way the extended offline test passing isn't unusual.  Either it
> relocated the sectors in which case the drive is "completely good" or
> the data written to the bad sectors was readable when the test was
> run, which doesn't guarantee that it will still be readable a
> day/week/month/year from now.
>
> Unfortunately I don't think there is any way to find out what the
> firmware is doing, or to predict the likelihood of another failure.
> The only thing we can say for sure that like all hard drives, it WILL
> fail sometime.
>
> Rich
>
>

What if I copied data to the drive until it was just about full.  I'm
thinking like maybe 90 or 95% or so.  If I do that and run the test
every few days, would it then catch a error after a few weeks or so of
testing?  I realize no one knows with 100% certainty but I would like to
backup my data say every couple weeks just in case.  If the drive works,
fine.  If it fails, well, it wouldn't be the first time and it won't be
a primary drive so no big loss. 

I got to find me a good drive for backups tho.  I'm waiting on a good
sale of a brand other than Seagate tho.  That should help keep two
drives from failing at the same time.  Well, a little anyway.  I think
it is called Dale's Law now.  ;-) 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Mick]

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On Sunday 29 Jun 2014 05:44:38 Dale wrote:
> Rich Freeman wrote:
> > On Sat, Jun 28, 2014 at 11:27 PM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> So, thoughts?  Did it mark that part as bad and all is well or is this
> >> going to be trouble down the line?  Should I just fill the thing up with
> >> data and test the stuffin out of it to make sure?
> > 
> > That is pretty typical.  You wrote to every sector on the drive.  You
> > don't need to be able to read a sector to overwrite it, so doing this
> > cleared out the drive's list of offline uncorrectable sectors.  If
> > you're fortunate it relocated those sectors in which case the drive is
> > only using good sectors now.  It can't relocate a sector unless it
> > either gets a successful read, or it is overwritten, and you overwrote
> > them.
> > 
> > Either way the extended offline test passing isn't unusual.  Either it
> > relocated the sectors in which case the drive is "completely good" or
> > the data written to the bad sectors was readable when the test was
> > run, which doesn't guarantee that it will still be readable a
> > day/week/month/year from now.
> > 
> > Unfortunately I don't think there is any way to find out what the
> > firmware is doing, or to predict the likelihood of another failure.
> > The only thing we can say for sure that like all hard drives, it WILL
> > fail sometime.
> > 
> > Rich
> 
> What if I copied data to the drive until it was just about full.  I'm
> thinking like maybe 90 or 95% or so.  If I do that and run the test
> every few days, would it then catch a error after a few weeks or so of
> testing?  I realize no one knows with 100% certainty but I would like to
> backup my data say every couple weeks just in case.  If the drive works,
> fine.  If it fails, well, it wouldn't be the first time and it won't be
> a primary drive so no big loss.
> 
> I got to find me a good drive for backups tho.  I'm waiting on a good
> sale of a brand other than Seagate tho.  That should help keep two
> drives from failing at the same time.  Well, a little anyway.  I think
> it is called Dale's Law now.  ;-)

I'm not sure what it is called, but it seems infectious!  I have a drive (in a 
laptop) which I recently zeroed out with dd and fsck -c for good measure, 
before I installed gentoo on it.  Yesterday, I tried a long test, but it won't 
complete.  It reached "10% remaining" and it stayed there for a few hours.  I 
will repeat the test to see if it gets through this time, but I am worried 
that it's on its way out.

Oh well, I may install an SSD if it fails.

-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Dale]

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Mick wrote:
> On Sunday 29 Jun 2014 05:44:38 Dale wrote:
>>
>>
>> What if I copied data to the drive until it was just about full.  I'm
>> thinking like maybe 90 or 95% or so.  If I do that and run the test
>> every few days, would it then catch a error after a few weeks or so of
>> testing?  I realize no one knows with 100% certainty but I would like to
>> backup my data say every couple weeks just in case.  If the drive works,
>> fine.  If it fails, well, it wouldn't be the first time and it won't be
>> a primary drive so no big loss.
>>
>> I got to find me a good drive for backups tho.  I'm waiting on a good
>> sale of a brand other than Seagate tho.  That should help keep two
>> drives from failing at the same time.  Well, a little anyway.  I think
>> it is called Dale's Law now.  ;-)
>
> I'm not sure what it is called, but it seems infectious!  I have a
drive (in a
> laptop) which I recently zeroed out with dd and fsck -c for good measure,
> before I installed gentoo on it.  Yesterday, I tried a long test, but
it won't
> complete.  It reached "10% remaining" and it stayed there for a few
hours.  I
> will repeat the test to see if it gets through this time, but I am
worried
> that it's on its way out.
>
> Oh well, I may install an SSD if it fails.
>

That's seems to be normal at least for me.  Mine has certain percentages
that it just seems to sit at for a good while.  It eventually passes the
test tho.  Just leave it overnight and check it the next morning or
something.  I know laptops are different but got to do what you got to
do.  Maybe pluging it into a desktop or something would help.

Dale

:-)  :-)


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Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Mick]

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On Sunday 29 Jun 2014 09:42:39 Dale wrote:
> Mick wrote:
> > On Sunday 29 Jun 2014 05:44:38 Dale wrote:
> >> What if I copied data to the drive until it was just about full.  I'm
> >> thinking like maybe 90 or 95% or so.  If I do that and run the test
> >> every few days, would it then catch a error after a few weeks or so of
> >> testing?  I realize no one knows with 100% certainty but I would like to
> >> backup my data say every couple weeks just in case.  If the drive works,
> >> fine.  If it fails, well, it wouldn't be the first time and it won't be
> >> a primary drive so no big loss.
> >> 
> >> I got to find me a good drive for backups tho.  I'm waiting on a good
> >> sale of a brand other than Seagate tho.  That should help keep two
> >> drives from failing at the same time.  Well, a little anyway.  I think
> >> it is called Dale's Law now.  ;-)
> > 
> > I'm not sure what it is called, but it seems infectious!  I have a
> 
> drive (in a
> 
> > laptop) which I recently zeroed out with dd and fsck -c for good measure,
> > before I installed gentoo on it.  Yesterday, I tried a long test, but
> 
> it won't
> 
> > complete.  It reached "10% remaining" and it stayed there for a few
> 
> hours.  I
> 
> > will repeat the test to see if it gets through this time, but I am
> 
> worried
> 
> > that it's on its way out.
> > 
> > Oh well, I may install an SSD if it fails.
> 
> That's seems to be normal at least for me.  Mine has certain percentages
> that it just seems to sit at for a good while.  It eventually passes the
> test tho.  Just leave it overnight and check it the next morning or
> something.  I know laptops are different but got to do what you got to
> do.  Maybe pluging it into a desktop or something would help.

I've restarted it and will leave it all day today to see what gives.

-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Rich Freeman]

On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 12:44 AM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> What if I copied data to the drive until it was just about full.  I'm
> thinking like maybe 90 or 95% or so.  If I do that and run the test
> every few days, would it then catch a error after a few weeks or so of
> testing?  I realize no one knows with 100% certainty...

As you already said, nobody knows with 100% certainty.

In the failures I've experienced I'd expect it to start catching
errors within a few days.  However, on those drives the relocated
sector count never increases, which suggests that the firmware never
relocated those sectors when overwritten, which seems brain-dead to
me.

If the drive relocates the sectors, then conceivably it could go quite
a long time until having errors, probably in an entirely different set
of sectors.

Even if it doesn't relocate, the reliability of the bad sectors could
be high or low.

Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Dale]

Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 12:44 AM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>> What if I copied data to the drive until it was just about full.  I'm
>> thinking like maybe 90 or 95% or so.  If I do that and run the test
>> every few days, would it then catch a error after a few weeks or so of
>> testing?  I realize no one knows with 100% certainty...
> As you already said, nobody knows with 100% certainty.
>
> In the failures I've experienced I'd expect it to start catching
> errors within a few days.  However, on those drives the relocated
> sector count never increases, which suggests that the firmware never
> relocated those sectors when overwritten, which seems brain-dead to
> me.
>
> If the drive relocates the sectors, then conceivably it could go quite
> a long time until having errors, probably in an entirely different set
> of sectors.
>
> Even if it doesn't relocate, the reliability of the bad sectors could
> be high or low.
>
> Rich
>
>

Yep.  I guess the best thing to do is test the stuffin out of it and
hope the tests don't wear it out.  lol 

As I told my ex more than once, time tells. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Mick]

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On Sunday 29 Jun 2014 13:05:04 Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 12:44 AM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> > What if I copied data to the drive until it was just about full.  I'm
> > thinking like maybe 90 or 95% or so.  If I do that and run the test
> > every few days, would it then catch a error after a few weeks or so of
> > testing?  I realize no one knows with 100% certainty...
> 
> As you already said, nobody knows with 100% certainty.
> 
> In the failures I've experienced I'd expect it to start catching
> errors within a few days.  However, on those drives the relocated
> sector count never increases, which suggests that the firmware never
> relocated those sectors when overwritten, which seems brain-dead to
> me.
> 
> If the drive relocates the sectors, then conceivably it could go quite
> a long time until having errors, probably in an entirely different set
> of sectors.
> 
> Even if it doesn't relocate, the reliability of the bad sectors could
> be high or low.
> 
> Rich

What triggers a relocation?  I also have a drive which shows a sector 
relocation pending, but for a few days now and after some tests that showed no 
errors, it won't relocate it.

-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[J. Roeleveld]

On Tuesday, July 01, 2014 06:52:10 AM Mick wrote:
> On Sunday 29 Jun 2014 13:05:04 Rich Freeman wrote:
> > On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 12:44 AM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > What if I copied data to the drive until it was just about full.  I'm
> > > thinking like maybe 90 or 95% or so.  If I do that and run the test
> > > every few days, would it then catch a error after a few weeks or so of
> > > testing?  I realize no one knows with 100% certainty...
> > 
> > As you already said, nobody knows with 100% certainty.
> > 
> > In the failures I've experienced I'd expect it to start catching
> > errors within a few days.  However, on those drives the relocated
> > sector count never increases, which suggests that the firmware never
> > relocated those sectors when overwritten, which seems brain-dead to
> > me.
> > 
> > If the drive relocates the sectors, then conceivably it could go quite
> > a long time until having errors, probably in an entirely different set
> > of sectors.
> > 
> > Even if it doesn't relocate, the reliability of the bad sectors could
> > be high or low.
> > 
> > Rich
> 
> What triggers a relocation?  I also have a drive which shows a sector
> relocation pending, but for a few days now and after some tests that showed
> no errors, it won't relocate it.

I think a write to that sector should force a relocation.

--
Joost

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Dale]

J. Roeleveld wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 01, 2014 06:52:10 AM Mick wrote:
>> On Sunday 29 Jun 2014 13:05:04 Rich Freeman wrote:
>>> On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 12:44 AM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> What if I copied data to the drive until it was just about full.  I'm
>>>> thinking like maybe 90 or 95% or so.  If I do that and run the test
>>>> every few days, would it then catch a error after a few weeks or so of
>>>> testing?  I realize no one knows with 100% certainty...
>>> As you already said, nobody knows with 100% certainty.
>>>
>>> In the failures I've experienced I'd expect it to start catching
>>> errors within a few days.  However, on those drives the relocated
>>> sector count never increases, which suggests that the firmware never
>>> relocated those sectors when overwritten, which seems brain-dead to
>>> me.
>>>
>>> If the drive relocates the sectors, then conceivably it could go quite
>>> a long time until having errors, probably in an entirely different set
>>> of sectors.
>>>
>>> Even if it doesn't relocate, the reliability of the bad sectors could
>>> be high or low.
>>>
>>> Rich
>> What triggers a relocation?  I also have a drive which shows a sector
>> relocation pending, but for a few days now and after some tests that showed
>> no errors, it won't relocate it.
> I think a write to that sector should force a relocation.
>
> --
> Joost
>
>

I think you are right Joost.  I should have tried some fixes that COULD
be destructive to see if a) it fixes it and b) the data lives, other
than the bad part at least.  I forgot to do that and really wasn't sure
how to do it either.  One person posted a lot of info about it but it
was a bit deep for me.  It would have required some reading and because
of health issues, I can't tackle that much at one time right now. 

What I did tho.  I got the new drive, rsynced the data from old drive to
new drive.  Removed the LVM stuff from the old drive.  I used dd to
erase the whole old drive, which took a while for 3TBs.  o_O  After
that, I ran the test.  It came back fine.  Check out this snippet:

SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
Num  Test_Description    Status                  Remaining 
LifeTime(hours)  LBA_of_first_error
# 1  Short offline       Completed without error       00%    
16499         -
# 2  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%    
16498         -
# 3  Short offline       Completed without error       00%    
16475         -
# 4  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%    
16466         -
# 5  Extended offline    Aborted by host               90%    
16461         -
# 6  Extended offline    Completed: read failure       60%    
16451         2905482560
# 7  Extended offline    Completed: read failure       60%    
16432         2905482560
# 8  Extended offline    Completed: read failure       60%    
16427         2905482560
# 9  Extended offline    Completed: read failure       60%    
16394         2905482560
#10  Extended offline    Completed: read failure       60%    
16389         2905482560
#11  Short offline       Completed without error       00%    
16380         -
#12  Extended offline    Completed: read failure       60%    
16365         2905482560
#13  Extended offline    Completed: read failure       60%    
16352         2905482560
#14  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%     
8044         -
#15  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%     
3121         -
#16  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%     
1548         -
#17  Short offline       Completed without error       00%     
1141         -
#18  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%      
719         -
#19  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%      
525         -
#20  Short offline       Completed without error       00%      
516         -
#21  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%       
18         -
7 of 7 failed self-tests are outdated by newer successful extended
offline self-test # 2
 
Note the very last line.  You can see all the failures but the last line
says the drive is good to go since the drive passed after the bad ones. 
So, while I'm not holding my breath, that is what SMART says.  It may
blow smoke and make horrible noises next week but right now, it says it
is OK. 

In the end, it seems something has to write to that specific sector and
then the drive will reallocate/move/whatever so that the bad part isn't
used anymore.  It seems dd did that but I bet there are other tools that
could do it without losing data other than what is in the bad spot of
course.  That's my simple idea at least. 

Hope that helps.  I wish I could have done the other stuff and kept
notes on commands and such and then post the results.  That MAY have
helped someone in the future.  My brain ain't what it used to be.  ;-)

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Rich Freeman]

On Tue, Jul 1, 2014 at 2:09 AM, J. Roeleveld <joost@antarean.org> wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 01, 2014 06:52:10 AM Mick wrote:
>>
>> What triggers a relocation?  I also have a drive which shows a sector
>> relocation pending, but for a few days now and after some tests that showed
>> no errors, it won't relocate it.
>
> I think a write to that sector should force a relocation.
>

In theory either a write to that sector or a successful read should
trigger a relocation.

In practice, I've never seen a drive actually do this - maybe I just
manage to pick drives with braindead firmware.  When I write to a
pending sector, the pending sector count goes down, but the relocated
sector count doesn't change, and usually in a few days I have another
pending sector.

The last time I had a drive fail I was running md raid, so a scrub
fixed all the pending sectors automatically, but the drive firmware
wasn't doing its part to relocate them.  Either that, or the drive had
run out of spare sectors and wasn't reporting this via SMART.

Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Alan McKinnon]

On 01/07/2014 07:52, Mick wrote:
> On Sunday 29 Jun 2014 13:05:04 Rich Freeman wrote:
>> On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 12:44 AM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> What if I copied data to the drive until it was just about full.  I'm
>>> thinking like maybe 90 or 95% or so.  If I do that and run the test
>>> every few days, would it then catch a error after a few weeks or so of
>>> testing?  I realize no one knows with 100% certainty...
>>
>> As you already said, nobody knows with 100% certainty.
>>
>> In the failures I've experienced I'd expect it to start catching
>> errors within a few days.  However, on those drives the relocated
>> sector count never increases, which suggests that the firmware never
>> relocated those sectors when overwritten, which seems brain-dead to
>> me.
>>
>> If the drive relocates the sectors, then conceivably it could go quite
>> a long time until having errors, probably in an entirely different set
>> of sectors.
>>
>> Even if it doesn't relocate, the reliability of the bad sectors could
>> be high or low.
>>
>> Rich
> 
> What triggers a relocation?  I also have a drive which shows a sector 
> relocation pending, but for a few days now and after some tests that showed no 
> errors, it won't relocate it.
> 


it's triggered by a write to the sector



-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com