From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D80E71381FA for ; Wed, 4 Jun 2014 13:00:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6C894E0B0B; Wed, 4 Jun 2014 13:00:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 52ED0E0946 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 2014 13:00:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.173.147.84] (85-76-37-17-nat.elisa-mobile.fi [85.76.37.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: ssuominen) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9E4D733F195 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 2014 13:00:16 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <538F17CE.1090103@gentoo.org> Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2014 15:57:50 +0300 From: Samuli Suominen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.4.0 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Systemd upower References: <20140603161406.0400709b5f38540475ac4c1f@web.de> <6653474.aQqAYpAeto@wstn> <538DFC41.3080602@libertytrek.org> <538F0F5F.8020707@libertytrek.org> In-Reply-To: <538F0F5F.8020707@libertytrek.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Archives-Salt: e170a99c-4ff1-41fd-94d3-e2bdd2149efa X-Archives-Hash: dcb9786887827f31428d32cf52b30a98 On 04/06/14 15:21, Tanstaafl wrote: > On 6/3/2014 1:08 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: >> On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 11:48 AM, Tanstaafl >> wrote: >>> On 6/3/2014 11:10 AM, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: >>>> Maybe. The thing is, this is going to keep happening, as more and more >>>> infrastructure migrates towards systemd. Perhaps a news item everytime >>>> it happens is unrealistic? > >>> Weren't you the one saying that those of us who were voicing >>> concerns that >>> systemd proponents were ultimately wanting to FORCE systemd on >>> everyone were >>> just scare-mongering conspiracy theorists? > >> Who is "forcing" anything? > > I was specifically referring to your comment that: > >> The thing is, this is going to keep happening, as more and more >> infrastructure migrates towards systemd. > > That comment right there - specifically the word *infrastructure* - > screams to me 'we intend to take over the world'. > > And yes, as devs get lazier (decide to rely on systemd rather than > build it to work independently of the init system), this will in fact > result in *users* (read: those lacking the skills to code every > program out there to work without systemd) eventually being *forced* > to switch to systemd. You can still install GNOME without systemd from Portage using the USE="openrc-force" (which needs to be unmasked using /etc/portage/profile/use.mask line like -openrc-force) And nobody is ever forced to do anything within Open Source, you always have the option to contibute code, or donate money to get someone else contribute the code Calling volunteers who work without paycheck lazy is just bad behavior > > That is simply the reality. You can ignore it if you like, but it > doesn't change it. Forced is forced. > >> That's what you and many others don't seem to understand: systemd is a >> *BETTER* implementation for basically *ALL* the hodgepodge of >> "solutions" that we had before in our plumbing layer. > > Time will tell, and you may even be right. The problem is, average > users really don't have a way to prove this to themselves, all we see > is the wailing and gnashing of teeth as stuff constantly *breaks* that > *never* broke before. > Nothing has been broken so far yet. People are just facing hard realities and noticing some packages have been abandoned for years, even before systemd became popular as it is now. You can't blame systemd, upower, and other developers for ditching such outdated code and using what they like as they code it for their application. - Samuli