From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 177451381FA for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2014 23:04:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 22A4AE0AF1; Tue, 3 Jun 2014 23:04:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-wg0-f48.google.com (mail-wg0-f48.google.com [74.125.82.48]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E8D67E09C4 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2014 23:04:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-wg0-f48.google.com with SMTP id k14so7558078wgh.19 for ; Tue, 03 Jun 2014 16:04:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=vUA/2rEolkW+pQaQORHxfNB79xddSMRY5QjPdk9nRwk=; b=ltQvR8n8LtvHxCIBmVgGxzEmoYkmRQzpiu8Cmwao3yqK9iFyhDtHHxtJRSxYPg6dWl nzyNZqzn9wTYD4x8YFQXNkBr3Sk1T+XzSimJR1Igu0+qvariGlbLn1tnnU/InJ49ZfNG Kx75bMgCFcwDoH00s+pQV+RE6UTpFoo96jCn49q1lQ6ZR062Lsrh6KXg+9ISaDWR5G4r M5qCtoBxffu76c79/3ei7qFrKYcgjs6qUybd+CeLcSZlAmt7fFfFnArrYKPH4c7yqB9z X/pyN32Fwr+c3SjwFHxIRtxEr06/TIpoSc7jCV/wmvfOA7MPE331YUAfN/42YSsWjTrn 7bVQ== X-Received: by 10.194.187.107 with SMTP id fr11mr63216874wjc.70.1401836687179; Tue, 03 Jun 2014 16:04:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.20.0.40] (196-215-51-239.dynamic.isadsl.co.za. [196.215.51.239]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id l5sm6306270wif.22.2014.06.03.16.04.45 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 03 Jun 2014 16:04:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <538E5460.6000503@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2014 01:04:00 +0200 From: Alan McKinnon User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.5.0 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Systemd upower References: <20140603161406.0400709b5f38540475ac4c1f@web.de> <6653474.aQqAYpAeto@wstn> <538DFC41.3080602@libertytrek.org> <538E2CBA.4000709@gmail.com> <538E37A0.1030105@marc-stuermer.de> <538E40E6.8060107@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Archives-Salt: 8e58ca3b-1e6f-479f-a53a-a679bfbbcd05 X-Archives-Hash: 762c17fe42e895747e78ad955eab555b On 04/06/2014 00:06, Alon Bar-Lev wrote: > On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 12:59 AM, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: >> >> On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 4:40 PM, Alan McKinnon wrote: >> [...] >>> Incidentally, what exactly is wrong with systemd writing a dhcp server & >>> client, and an ntp client? Is that project prohibited from writing such >>> software? Are they not allowed to do it? Does it break legal laws? Is >>> there an NDA or non-compete clause in the mix that I'm not aware of? >>> Because they are the only things that could stop systemd from writing >>> such code; without such prohibitions they are free to spend their time >>> doing whatever they damn well please and if that means yet another dhcp >>> implementation, so be it. >> >> Alan, thanks for succinctly putting why is absurd to complain about >> someone else's desire to write whatever code she desires to write. And >> to sharing it to the world! The HORROR! >> >> How *DARE* they to release their code? For free! >> > > Once again, you do not understand the claim. > > If a user of Gentoo chooses to use non systemd profile, it means that > we need to make sure systemd will not be a valid option, ever. > > In this case, if it is to disable the upower USE flag, or to provide > alternative, block newer version, whatever make it possible to have a > system working without systemd. > > systemd should not be visible at any time, nor its implications. > > Alon Alon, You need to read the massive thread on -dev about this and understand the technical reason why portage is doing something strange. I'm not going to give you opinion or rant here, I'm going to give you fact: Nobody is shoving systemd down anyone's throat because that is not what the portage code did. UPower removed their support for pm-utils (unmaintained for 5 years) and now support that same functionality provided by systems. UPower has the right to make that call. Samuli picked up that this is an issue for non-systemd users - they will not have the ability to suspend/hiberate. So a package was created called upower-pm-utils which contains the pm-utils code prior to the UPower change. If you want UPower to work as it always did for you, simply unmerge upower and merge upower-pm-utils. To have suspend/hibernate done the systmed way, just leave UPower installed and let portage do it's thing. Now, this is where the snag comes in. Portage sees you have UPower and you now need pm functionality, and portage needs to merge something to fill that dependency. Because of the way the code works, portage finds UPower+systemd first always, and decides to use that. It's software, not a human, so it doesn't question your decision and proceeds. It's analogous to having a virtual - if you don't tell portage which one to use, it picks the first. You tell portage which one you want by installing it, and portage is happy with that. Should there have been some USE flag-type solution to definitely indicate your choice? Sounds good in practice but in this case it's not a good idea (see the -dev thread for reasons why). Besides, this is a transitional phase and things will change again in a month. It's really not worth the effort to set up a USE for one package for a month. Those are the facts as laid out by our Gentoo devs and those facts do not support a conspiracy theory. Summary; You yourself do not want systemd. OK. Here's how to not get it in this case: emerge -C upower && emerge -1 upower-pm-utils -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckinnon@gmail.com