[gentoo-user] Raspberry Pi & Gentoo?

[gentoo-user] Raspberry Pi & Gentoo?

[Jarry]

Hi Gentoo-users,

I have read all articles about Raspberry Pi on Gentoo-wiki,
but want to ask: Is anybody here really using Gentoo on RPi?
Is it usable?

I have a chance of free housing for my RPi so I thought I give
it a try, using RPi as backup-DNS/MX (and watchdog) for my
primary server. Right now I'm facing two questions:

1. What is better to use as OS-storage: USB-stick or SD-card?
I have read horror stories about SD-cards being fried/bricked
quite frequently so I'm a little scared. But I never found
single post about problems with USB-stick...

2. What distro? Right now I'm using Gentoo on all my servers
but I'm not sure it is the best option for this puppy (Gentoo
puts quite high demands on filesystem). If I redirect all the
compilation work to other "mature" server (distcc/crossdev),
can I use even Gentoo? Or is Raspbian still the better choice?

BR,
Jarry
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Re: [gentoo-user] Raspberry Pi & Gentoo?

[Stroller]

On Wed, 16 April 2014, at 4:34 pm, Jarry <mr.jarry@gmail.com> wrote:
> … 
> 1. What is better to use as OS-storage: USB-stick or SD-card?
> I have read horror stories about SD-cards being fried/bricked
> quite frequently so I'm a little scared. But I never found
> single post about problems with USB-stick...

In terms of frying/bricking USB sticks are just the same kind of flash memory as in SD-cards, surely?

Both are $8 for 16GB of storage, so wear / failure is only a concern if the server is to be inaccessible.

Stroller.

Re: [gentoo-user] Raspberry Pi & Gentoo?

[Jarry]

On 16-Apr-14 17:46, Stroller wrote:
>
> On Wed, 16 April 2014, at 4:34 pm, Jarry <mr.jarry@gmail.com> wrote:
>> …
>> 1. What is better to use as OS-storage: USB-stick or SD-card?
>> I have read horror stories about SD-cards being fried/bricked
>> quite frequently so I'm a little scared. But I never found
>> single post about problems with USB-stick...
>
> In terms of frying/bricking USB sticks are just the same kind of flash memory as in SD-cards, surely?
>
> Both are $8 for 16GB of storage, so wear / failure is only a concern if the server is to be inaccessible.

But not every flash-memory is the same. Are you sure SD and
USB are about the same? I thought USB-sticks were a little
higher (comparable with CF, which is surely more reliable
than SD)...

Jarry
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Re: [gentoo-user] Raspberry Pi & Gentoo?

[Stroller]

On Wed, 16 April 2014, at 4:54 pm, Jarry <mr.jarry@gmail.com> wrote:
>> ...
>> In terms of frying/bricking USB sticks are just the same kind of flash memory as in SD-cards, surely?
>> 
>> Both are $8 for 16GB of storage, so wear / failure is only a concern if the server is to be inaccessible.
> 
> But not every flash-memory is the same. Are you sure SD and
> USB are about the same? I thought USB-sticks were a little
> higher (comparable with CF, which is surely more reliable
> than SD)...

I understood that it depended mostly on the brand.

I'd trust any Kingston, Crucial or Samsung flash memory device (bought from a reputable supplier - I hear lots of talk of fakes) over any unbranded USB key bought from eBay or the local market. 

microSD memory is relied upon by practically everyone with a mobile phone, these days. I would assume that manufacturers would try to make all flash memory devices about equally reliable.

Stroller.

[gentoo-user] Re: Raspberry Pi & Gentoo?

[James]

Jarry <mr.jarry <at> gmail.com> writes:


> >> 1. What is better to use as OS-storage: USB-stick or SD-card?

> > Both are $8 for 16GB of storage, so wear / failure is only a concern if
the server is to be inaccessible.

> But not every flash-memory is the same. Are you sure SD and
> USB are about the same? I thought USB-sticks were a little
> higher (comparable with CF, which is surely more reliable
> than SD)...

I've got some minimalized Gentoo servers, 586 vintage, still running
on the original SD cards. I used "quality" cards, vintage 2006. The 
trick I found was to run the -Os small kernel and keep everything in ram,
if that is possible. Also use ext2 file system, as it is better on
minimal hardware. NFS mount busy stuff to other drives across the net.

ROCK Solid..... as minimalized gentoo servers on SD for a 8 years now.
If you build on Rpi, it's at least a minimal system, or it can be set
up as a pure embedded system:

# uname -r
2.6.25-hardened-r7

cat /proc/meminfo             
MemTotal:       254224 kB
MemFree:        222112 kB
Buffers:          2080 kB
Cached:          19808 kB
SwapCached:          0 kB
Active:          14872 kB
Inactive:        10616 kB
<snip>

/dev/hda1 /boot	ext2 noatime 1 2
/dev/hda2 none	swap sw	0 0
/dev/hda3 / ext2 noatime 0 1


 hdparm -i /dev/hda
   /dev/hda:

 Model=SanDisk SDCFB-4096, FwRev=HDX 4.03, SerialNo=003416B2397F2159
 Config={ HardSect NotMFM Removeable DTR>10Mbs nonMagnetic }
 RawCHS=7964/16/63, TrkSize=0, SectSize=576, ECCbytes=4
 BuffType=DualPort, BuffSize=1kB, MaxMultSect=4, MultSect=4
 CurCHS=7964/16/63, CurSects=8027712, LBA=yes, LBAsects=8027712
 IORDY=no, tPIO={min:120,w/IORDY:120}, tDMA={min:120,rec:120}
 PIO modes:  pio0 pio1 pio2 pio3 pio4 
 DMA modes:  mdma0 mdma1 mdma2 
 AdvancedPM=no
 Drive conforms to: Unspecified:  ATA/ATAPI-4

If you got the time to LEARN, gentoo as an embedded system if far
superior than a gentoo minimalized server, such as the above dinosaur.

You need to be *reasonable* with what you ask your Rpi to do; imho.

ps, be nice to Neil, Alan and the other old farts on this list, as we
all have very old toys we rarely talk about...... I.E. nothing new
in *nix, it's all just colorful and recycled, imho.

hth,
James

Re: [gentoo-user] Raspberry Pi & Gentoo?

[William Kenworthy]

On 04/16/14 23:46, Stroller wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 16 April 2014, at 4:34 pm, Jarry <mr.jarry@gmail.com> wrote:
>> … 
>> 1. What is better to use as OS-storage: USB-stick or SD-card?
>> I have read horror stories about SD-cards being fried/bricked
>> quite frequently so I'm a little scared. But I never found
>> single post about problems with USB-stick...
> 
> In terms of frying/bricking USB sticks are just the same kind of flash memory as in SD-cards, surely?
> 
> Both are $8 for 16GB of storage, so wear / failure is only a concern if the server is to be inaccessible.
> 
> Stroller.
> 
> 

One for playing videos recorded on a myth system (nfs mount) - original
4G raspian SD overwritten with gentoo
one used for low power storage (32gb SD) for a security camera ... stage
the images on the rpi, power down the big stuff at night and when
available move the files into the main storage (all automated).

Both have been running since the first rpi model B's stated shipping
with the only problem being the ext4 filesystem I chose to use (yuk)

BillK

Re: [gentoo-user] Raspberry Pi & Gentoo?

[Alecks Gates]

On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 6:44 PM, William Kenworthy <billk@iinet.net.au> wrote:
>
> On 04/16/14 23:46, Stroller wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, 16 April 2014, at 4:34 pm, Jarry <mr.jarry@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> …
> >> 1. What is better to use as OS-storage: USB-stick or SD-card?
> >> I have read horror stories about SD-cards being fried/bricked
> >> quite frequently so I'm a little scared. But I never found
> >> single post about problems with USB-stick...
> >
> > In terms of frying/bricking USB sticks are just the same kind of flash memory as in SD-cards, surely?
> >
> > Both are $8 for 16GB of storage, so wear / failure is only a concern if the server is to be inaccessible.
> >
> > Stroller.
> >
> >
>
> One for playing videos recorded on a myth system (nfs mount) - original
> 4G raspian SD overwritten with gentoo
> one used for low power storage (32gb SD) for a security camera ... stage
> the images on the rpi, power down the big stuff at night and when
> available move the files into the main storage (all automated).
>
> Both have been running since the first rpi model B's stated shipping
> with the only problem being the ext4 filesystem I chose to use (yuk)
>
> BillK
>
>
>

I'm curious about trying out f2fs on the rpi.  What's the general
consensus on using it at this point in time?  I know it's still very
new, but I haven't read about anything with regard to stability.

-- 
Alecks Gates

Re: [gentoo-user] Raspberry Pi & Gentoo?

[Tom Wijsman]

On Wed, 16 Apr 2014 17:34:54 +0200
Jarry <mr.jarry@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Gentoo-users,
> 
> I have read all articles about Raspberry Pi on Gentoo-wiki,
> but want to ask: Is anybody here really using Gentoo on RPi?

Yes.

> Is it usable?

Depends on your goal.

> I have a chance of free housing for my RPi so I thought I give
> it a try, using RPi as backup-DNS/MX (and watchdog) for my
> primary server.

Should work.

> Right now I'm facing two questions:
> 
> 1. What is better to use as OS-storage: USB-stick or SD-card?
> I have read horror stories about SD-cards being fried/bricked
> quite frequently so I'm a little scared. But I never found
> single post about problems with USB-stick...

As suggested in the other reply; both if you can, SD otherwise. As it
is faster than USB as USB is sharing the same interface as Ethernet.

Just make sure you get something serious from a good brand.

> 2. What distro? Right now I'm using Gentoo on all my servers
> but I'm not sure it is the best option for this puppy (Gentoo
> puts quite high demands on filesystem). If I redirect all the
> compilation work to other "mature" server (distcc/crossdev),
> can I use even Gentoo? Or is Raspbian still the better choice?

The nice thing about Gentoo is that you can make things minimal, the
worst thing about Gentoo is that it takes a ton of compile time; so, it
somewhat depends on your goal. Try different and see what you like.

When you plan to do Gentoo, spend some time on avoiding much writes to
the SD card if possible; put /var/tmp/portage on external drive, etc...

-- 
With kind regards,

Tom Wijsman (TomWij)
Gentoo Developer

E-mail address  : TomWij@gentoo.org
GPG Public Key  : 6D34E57D
GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2  ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D

Re: [gentoo-user] Raspberry Pi & Gentoo?

[Francisco Ares]

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2014-04-16 12:57 GMT-03:00 Tom Wijsman <TomWij@gentoo.org>:

>
>  ...
>
> When you plan to do Gentoo, spend some time on avoiding much writes to
> the SD card if possible; put /var/tmp/portage on external drive, etc...
>
>

Having a few systems now, all running Gentoo, I use to mount a NFS
/usr/portage from a central server, where all portage and "distfiles" are
stored for all systems.

And on some that do use a flash DOM, I plug a common hard disk and mount
"/var" to it while emerge'ing. A NFS mount would do if the network is fast
enough. And "distcc" always helps.

Francisco

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Re: [gentoo-user] Raspberry Pi & Gentoo?

[Peter Humphrey]

On Wednesday 16 Apr 2014 17:34:54 Jarry wrote:

> 2. What distro? Right now I'm using Gentoo on all my servers
> but I'm not sure it is the best option for this puppy (Gentoo
> puts quite high demands on filesystem). If I redirect all the
> compilation work to other "mature" server (distcc/crossdev),
> can I use even Gentoo? Or is Raspbian still the better choice?

I found distcc hard work when I was installing Gentoo on my Atom box, so I 
NFS-exported its package directory to a 32-bit chroot on my workstation, did 
all the emerging etc. there, including building binary packages, then
emerge -k on the Atom installed the system with minimum fuss.

It's not too hard to keep the portage setup in step, once you understand what 
bdeps are :-(

-- 
Regards
Peter

Re: [gentoo-user] Raspberry Pi & Gentoo?

[Ralf]

Hey,

some time ago I wrote an article about how to install Gentoo on a
Raspberry Pi:
https://blog.ramses-pyramidenbau.de/?p=188

Maybe this is interesting for you.
There's also a precompiled bootable image available for download.

Regards
  Ralf

On 04/16/2014 07:11 PM, Peter Humphrey wrote:
> On Wednesday 16 Apr 2014 17:34:54 Jarry wrote:
>
>> 2. What distro? Right now I'm using Gentoo on all my servers
>> but I'm not sure it is the best option for this puppy (Gentoo
>> puts quite high demands on filesystem). If I redirect all the
>> compilation work to other "mature" server (distcc/crossdev),
>> can I use even Gentoo? Or is Raspbian still the better choice?
> I found distcc hard work when I was installing Gentoo on my Atom box, so I 
> NFS-exported its package directory to a 32-bit chroot on my workstation, did 
> all the emerging etc. there, including building binary packages, then
> emerge -k on the Atom installed the system with minimum fuss.
>
> It's not too hard to keep the portage setup in step, once you understand what 
> bdeps are :-(
>

[gentoo-user] Re: Raspberry Pi & Gentoo?

[James]

Ralf <ralf+gentoo <at> ramses-pyramidenbau.de> writes:


> https://blog.ramses-pyramidenbau.de/?p=188

Very cool!


> >> 2. What distro? Right now I'm using Gentoo on all my servers
> >> but I'm not sure it is the best option for this puppy (Gentoo
> >> puts quite high demands on filesystem). If I redirect all the
> >> compilation work to other "mature" server (distcc/crossdev),
> >> can I use even Gentoo? Or is Raspbian still the better choice?
> > I found distcc hard work when I was installing Gentoo on my Atom box, 
> > so I NFS-exported its package directory to a 32-bit chroot on my 
> >> workstation, did all the emerging etc. there, including building binary
 > >> packages, then emerge -k on the Atom installed the system with minimum
 > >> fuss.


Ok so, on these small arm systems, what we have is the consolidation  of the
embedded world and the *nix world view of things.

It may be best and easy for you to purchase (relatively) cheap hardware,
downlaod and existing easy distro and run your application; benchmarking
with relevant goals in mind.

Traditional embedded folks look at the primary algorithms and apps that will
run on an embedded processor/ram and maybe go one size larger on the
resources. Tightly constrained. Arm processors come in a myriad of sizes and
features. Personally, if your stuck on Rpi, I ask around in those forums as
to which arm_board you should use for your goals. Stay with non-mechanical
drive/mem as it's rather dumb to put a mechanical drive with a sub-100-watt
embedded board, from an energy consumption perspective, imho.


http://archlinuxarm.org/platforms/armv6/raspberry-pi

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7724/it-begins-amd-announces-its-first-arm-based-server-soc-64bit8core-opteron-a1100

https://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/base/embedded/handbook/

http://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2321


Just a few links to get you started on proper research.

hth,
James